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Alberico DeSandre
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Posted - 2008.08.09 23:43:00 -
[1]
This is just a brief summary or guide on the main ways that you can be griefed while running missions in high security space, and the ways that a noob can avoid said situations. As a 3million skillpoint noobie I realy couldn't find any resource like this and most of this information has been gleaned from costly trial and error. I've had some good private conversations with overall polite folk as they tear my ship apart to get at the isk candy within. I've also had some bad conversations. In either case, this was some expensive advice!
~Alb
Alright, you've finaly ground your way past those paltry level 1-3 missions and you're ready to handle level 4s. You are now emerging from the gutters of EVE into the gutters of EVE with pocket change! The isk is just sitting there, waiting for you to harvest it... Unfortunately the griefers are waiting there as well, waiting to harvest YOU.
Enter, the mission runner griefer. These come mainly in two varieties.
The ninja salvager. This generaly silent chum will warp into your mission and start salvaging any wrecks that you leave behind. If you leave valuable loot, they will possibly pick that up as well. If they flash a light red or pink color to you on your overview, that means they have looted a wreck of yours and you can now fire on them with impunity. Of course, you're probably pretty new to the game and are in a ship fitted for mission running, not PVP. The ninjas ship is fast (he's a ninja after all) enough that your weapons will likely not be able to scratch it, and they can escape into warp in a moments notice. One important note: Salvaging wrecks does not flag you as aggressive, only looting from them does. If all they are doing is salvaging your wrecks then you will NOT be able to fire on them.
If this is your first time being hit by a ninja-salvager, you'l probably have questions like these:
How did they find me?
By scanning. Scan probes can find ships, and just about anything else, within a system. Also, good quality level 4 agents are not that common while level 4 missions are extremely popular to run; folk naturaly congregate in any high sec system that also has good level 4 agents, these systems end up being called "mission hubs" due to the high population. In short, the ninja salvager already knows what systems are good to scan in. If you run level 4 missions in a place where local stays above 100 then there are definetly a few people scanning folk down.
How can I keep them from finding me?
There's no foolproof way to do this. If you use items that increase your signature radius, or if you use drones heavily then the chances of you being scanned increase. Every time a drone activates a micro-warp drive it's signature radius skyrockets and becomes very easy to scan down. The BEST and pretty much ONLY way to be safe is to avoid the major mission hubs. Try to find a level 4 agent off the beaten trail. If you mission in an area like Dodixie then you are likely to run into a ninja salvager no matter what you try.
That sounds tedious and difficult, what ELSE can I do?
You can salvage and loot as you kill. You will likely have to make multiple trips to unload your cargo for each mission. When i'm doing this I generaly ignore drops that sell for less than 2000 isk per m3 of space as these can quickly fill up your cargo hold and increase the number of trips you make for little profit. If you are confident that you won't be struck by a ninja, then i'd always recommend just bringing in a salvaging ship after the mission is done.
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Alberico DeSandre
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Posted - 2008.08.09 23:44:00 -
[2]
On to the next variety of griefer, The... guy who wants you to shoot at him so he can shoot back: If the ninja loots from your wrecks you will be able to fire on him. Your first instinct upon seeing a red flashing ninja-salvager will probably be to bring your mighty weapons to bear on his insectile craft and reduce him to vapor. You might even succeed, though most of the time they will warp out long before you can take them apart. Regardless, they're out of your mission area one way or another.
I shot at him, he warped out, I did good right coach?!
After scaring the ninja-salvager away you're probably feeling pretty good about yourself. Yeah, now he knows you mean business! There's no way he'l come back to YOUR mission area! Wrong. You now have a 15 minute aggression timer; he can now fire back at you for the next 15 minutes. Now, something you have to understand is that most of these folk have large, mean ships back in their hangar bay. Ships that can devour your 3mil skillpoint battleship in about 30 seconds or less. They are quite possibly docking in the local station, switching ships, and might even be on the way back to your mission area already!
If you ever fire on a ninja, finish your looting/salvaging as fast as possible and then dock until your aggression timer is completely expired. I'd like to emphasize that you should wait a full minute after the timer has expired to be sure it's not just a display bug. There was nothing more frustrating to me than to undock, warp back to my mission, and lose my 100mil battleship because my aggression timer was bugged. Do not linger in the mission area after shooting at them. Not every ninja salvager will come back with a bigger ship, but the risk is there, you have been warned!
Aside from shooting at them, what else can I do?
If you're not looting and salvaging as you go then they will probably get everything you've left behind up until now. If they still linger in your mission area then the simplest thing to do is warp out and find something else to do for about 10 minutes. They will have likely moved on to another target, for now, and at this point hopefully you'l start looting and salvaging as you kill. If you don't or aren't salvaging as you kill, you can blow up your own wrecks as well. They will hopefully move on to more profitable and less informed prey.
Have they no honor?!
Some do, most don't. I've heard that some salvagers will offer a small cut to the mission runner to salvage their wrecks, but I haven't met those fellas yet. Generaly, I don't approach a ninja for conversation and they don't approach me, which is just fine. The one time I did accept a conversation from a ninja looter, they were just trying to brag about how much they looted. Some folk (age<16) do this half for the Isk and half for the amusement, so generaly, I don't give them any of the second kind of pleasure no matter how much they shaft you for.
I may repost this into the mission forums, as that is likely where a noob mission runner will go to first. In the meanwhile I hope you C&D fellas found at least some entertainment value in reading this :)
Feel free to drop any suggestions. I've been playing eve for all of 2 months so I'm sure there's plenty I could add.
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JordanParey
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.08.09 23:51:00 -
[3]
If I ever run into ya I'll be sure to give ya a cut of me salvage swag.
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Xzar Fyrarr
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.08.10 00:16:00 -
[4]
I do not approve.
Give me your stuff and move on >:]
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Eternal Error
Exitus Acta Probant
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Posted - 2008.08.10 00:37:00 -
[5]
tl;dr
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Faekurias
Black Legion Command
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Posted - 2008.08.10 00:40:00 -
[6]
Read it through, good for some people I suppose. Not exactly earthshaking but , meh, works. =)
We are recruiting.
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Khraunus
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Posted - 2008.08.10 00:56:00 -
[7]
You forgot the part where I convo you and tell you to pay me 1.5 mill or watch your wrecks vanish.
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Kirex
Vale Heavy Industries
Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2008.08.10 02:15:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: Khraunus
You forgot the part where I convo you and tell you to pay me 1.5 mill or watch your wrecks vanish.
I'd just laugh and AB around watching you pop your own wrecks.
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Alberico DeSandre
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Posted - 2008.08.10 02:28:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Faekurias
Read it through, good for some people I suppose. Not exactly earthshaking but , meh, works. =)
Aye, pretty much intended for noobies like me. Wish I knew back then what I know now kind of information :)
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Spectre Wraith
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Posted - 2008.08.10 03:42:00 -
[10]
There were actually 2 or 3 valuable key points you left out that discourage ninja salvaging behavior quite well. I could post them, but if I did that, then everyone would know and the ISK farmers I tend to follow would use it against me..if they can read english.
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Khraunus
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Posted - 2008.08.10 06:29:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Kirex
Originally by: Khraunus
You forgot the part where I convo you and tell you to pay me 1.5 mill or watch your wrecks vanish.
I'd just laugh and AB around watching you pop your own wrecks.
Read it again, I was reffering to ransoming the OP's mission after probing it out.
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Feilamya
Minmatar
Pelennor Swarm
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Posted - 2008.08.10 09:07:00 -
[12]
This thread is useless, because people are either smart enough to figure it all out by themselves or too stupid to read and understand the text (which is the majority - they will keep whining without even noticing this thread)
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Aeon Digitalis
Caldari
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.08.10 10:17:00 -
[13]
Shoot the wrecks! 
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Sigul Siento
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Posted - 2008.08.10 10:31:00 -
[14]
Right up to the end I think, here's a sporting fellow with a good idea. But then you betray that you are just like the rest of the masses of whining ISK-farming missioners, by labeling the age of people who actually do mission busting for fun.
Fun derived from interacting with other people in an internet game... the very idea! 
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Omae Gaw'd
Gallente
VMF-214 Blacksheep
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Posted - 2008.08.10 11:08:00 -
[15]
Although the tips given in this are good, your understanding of scan probes isn't.
Make it easier for those that don't know anything and write something like "The more stuff flying in your mission ( drones included) the more chance they find you, the bigger ship you fly the more chance they find you ".
The whole thing about sig radius is BS and the part about drone sig radius made me lol, sorry. It is true however that using a mwd will increase your sig radius but it has absolutely nothing to do with chances of getting scanned.
Probes are looking for a sensor strenght signature NOT a sig radius ( you could compare it to the ship sensor strenght values when dealing with ECM). The fact that you're more easily probed down when using drones is only because there are more said signatures in your deadspace.
Hope this helps.
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Cyb3r Thr3at
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.08.10 11:58:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Cyb3r Thr3at on 10/08/2008 11:58:59
What if.. you have a bigger ship too! :)
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Dotard
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.08.10 13:43:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Dotard on 10/08/2008 13:44:51
Originally by: Cyb3r Thr3at
Edited by: Cyb3r Thr3at on 10/08/2008 11:58:59
What if.. you have a bigger ship too! :)
Then shoot me and go get it! I'll wait.
edited to add: Good guide for the noob runners and well written for noob runner guide writer.
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omgea fatuus
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Posted - 2008.08.10 18:40:00 -
[18]
good for those smart enough to find this & read it. a few errors were already pointed out so i wont waste time there. the intent was a good one
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Alberico DeSandre
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Posted - 2008.08.10 19:27:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Omae Gaw'd
Although the tips given in this are good, your understanding of scan probes isn't.
Make it easier for those that don't know anything and write something like "The more stuff flying in your mission ( drones included) the more chance they find you, the bigger ship you fly the more chance they find you ".
The whole thing about sig radius is BS and the part about drone sig radius made me lol, sorry. It is true however that using a mwd will increase your sig radius but it has absolutely nothing to do with chances of getting scanned.
Probes are looking for a sensor strenght signature NOT a sig radius ( you could compare it to the ship sensor strenght values when dealing with ECM). The fact that you're more easily probed down when using drones is only because there are more said signatures in your deadspace.
Hope this helps.
Aha, thank you! I was mostly just regurgitating what another fella had told me in a different thread on that specific subject. Thanks for the clarification and i'll happily edit that in :)
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Alberico DeSandre
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Posted - 2008.08.10 19:44:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Sigul Siento
Right up to the end I think, here's a sporting fellow with a good idea. But then you betray that you are just like the rest of the masses of whining ISK-farming missioners, by labeling the age of people who actually do mission busting for fun.
Fun derived from interacting with other people in an internet game... the very idea!
I co-exist, even if the relationship is parasitic, with ninja-salvagers just fine. I don't mean to label ALL of them as childish, and that's where I think you just misunderstood me.
As for that one comment, i'd like to put things in perspective. I had vacated a mission area once a ninja showed up once and he conved me. He convoed me just to say that he found not one, but two arbalest heavy launchers; naturaly the crown jewel of any looter with a rough sell value of 13-14mil each. Unfortunately, I was fighting good hybrid gun toting serpentis ships; I haven't played much but generaly if the ships don't fire any missiles, you don't loot any missile launchers.
There's a difference between stealing for the fun of stealing and for the profit, and stealing just to **** someone off. That difference is more often than not defined by maturity, which is more often than not defined by age. That's where I was coming from with that comment, and I didn't mean to lump EVERY ninja in there. Just the ones that desperately try to make it personal. Sorry that it ruined what was overall suposed to be a pretty light hearted read for both sides of the coin. I went ahead and removed that specific reference because overall you're right, it's just too whine centric.
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Alberico DeSandre
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Posted - 2008.08.10 19:50:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Feilamya
This thread is useless, because people are either smart enough to figure it all out by themselves or too stupid to read and understand the text (which is the majority - they will keep whining without even noticing this thread)
This is a problem shared with most guides. I wrote this because I know that I personaly WOULD have found it and read it if it was there to be found, and probably saved myself weeks of losses in isk accordingly. It won't help the masses of sheep, just a few. Then again, a lot of the people here probably don't want the masses to wise up anyway :)
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Muad' Dib
Gallente
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2008.08.10 21:49:00 -
[22]
Ships that can kill you in 30s ?????
If they know what they are doing they will have the upper hand but i think you view them as almost-h4x-death-dealing monsters !
---
I smack just for myself.
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Faekurias
Black Legion Command
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Posted - 2008.08.11 10:02:00 -
[23]
Think I know a guy to show this to
We are recruiting.
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Sigul Siento
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Posted - 2008.08.11 10:53:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Alberico DeSandre
There's a difference between stealing for the fun of stealing and for the profit, and stealing just to **** someone off. That difference is more often than not defined by maturity, which is more often than not defined by age. That's where I was coming from with that comment, and I didn't mean to lump EVERY ninja in there. Just the ones that desperately try to make it personal. Sorry that it ruined what was overall suposed to be a pretty light hearted read for both sides of the coin. I went ahead and removed that specific reference because overall you're right, it's just too whine centric.
You'll find asshats in every "profession" in EVE, and I don't think age is that big a factor in how people behave. Probably not irrelevant, but there are an awful lot of age 20+ prats and quite a few young but nice people, so I wouldn't try to guess anyones age based on their behaviour, or vice versa.
The convo you describe seems pretty lame, but the thing of it is, a ninja salvager doesn't usually have to go looking for conversations to amuse; they come to us. I don't convo anyone while salvaging, and if they don't convo me, I'll salvage in silence and be on my way. But when I DO get convos, and they consist of threats, poor english, swears and so on (which they usually do), you can bet your factionfitted CNR/Navy Mega I find it awfully amusing. And yes, this makes ninja salvaging a lot more fun.
PVP in EVE consists of a wide range of activities, ranging from shooting someone to get their stuff/ISK to subtly manipulating the market to get more stuff/ISK . Ninja salvaging is somewhere in between. In all competetive ventures, winning is satisfying. Beating a poor opponent, some foulmouthed jerk who really deserved to be beaten, a lot more so.
And don't forget, if someone convos you to taunt you, it might be poor sportsmanship, but it might also be a tactic to try to goad you into a fight.
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Kano Sekor
Amarr
The Movement
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Posted - 2008.08.11 11:10:00 -
[25]
Good stuff for mission runners now let it fall to the bottom so they dont read it.
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Xindi Kraid
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Posted - 2008.08.11 12:12:00 -
[26]
Hey now. Not every ninja is in it to grief. Most are in it for the thrill of grabbing something out from under another player.
Same with pirates having fun ransming people.
Most are reasonable about it, only a few are in it for the sheer fun of causing pain and suffering.
--Bird of Prey: Forum God
Caveat Emptor
Caveat Venditor
CAVEAT |
Father Dibbles
Drunks And Addicts Combined
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Posted - 2008.08.11 12:34:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Xindi Kraid
Edited by: Xindi Kraid on 11/08/2008 12:18:42
Hey now. Not every ninja is in it to grief. Most are in it for the thrill of grabbing something out from under another player.
Same with pirates having fun ransoming people.
Most are reasonable about it, only a few are in it for the sheer fun of causing pain and suffering.
Watch out for those Suddenly Ninjas peole though. They don't actually care about the salvage. They are really there to harvest carebear tears. Word on the street is they use it for fuel.
Suddenly Ninjas alt detected. Thread will initiate self destruct in 5.....4.....3.....2.....1....... 
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Xindi Kraid
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Posted - 2008.08.11 12:42:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Father Dibbles
Originally by: Xindi Kraid
Edited by: Xindi Kraid on 11/08/2008 12:18:42
Hey now. Not every ninja is in it to grief. Most are in it for the thrill of grabbing something out from under another player.
Same with pirates having fun ransoming people.
Most are reasonable about it, only a few are in it for the sheer fun of causing pain and suffering.
Watch out for those Suddenly Ninjas peole though. They don't actually care about the salvage. They are really there to harvest carebear tears. Word on the street is they use it for fuel.
Suddenly Ninjas alt detected. Thread will initiate self destruct in 5.....4.....3.....2.....1.......
Actually this isn't an alt
This is mah main
--Bird of Prey: Forum God
Caveat Emptor
Caveat Venditor
CAVEAT |
Calestus Ravenglass
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.08.11 15:04:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Xindi Kraid
Edited by: Xindi Kraid on 11/08/2008 12:18:42
Watch out for those Suddenly Ninjas peole though. They don't actually care about the salvage. They are really there to harvest carebear tears. Word on the street is they use it for fuel.
^---This.
Free Pancakes! |
Mistress Evita
Caldari
Booze and Hookers
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Posted - 2008.08.11 15:39:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Alberico DeSandre
The BEST and pretty much ONLY way to be safe is to avoid the major mission hubs. Try to find a level 4 agent off the beaten trail.
This is all you really needed to write. I know of a few.
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Sintho
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Posted - 2008.08.11 17:24:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Sintho on 11/08/2008 17:27:45
Originally by: Alberico DeSandre
Edited by: Alberico DeSandre on 10/08/2008 19:45:19
On to the next variety of griefer, The... guy who wants you to shoot at him so he can shoot back: If the ninja loots from your wrecks you will be able to fire on him. Your first instinct upon seeing a red flashing ninja-salvager will probably be to bring your mighty weapons to bear on his insectile craft and reduce him to vapor. You might even succeed, though most of the time they will warp out long before you can take them apart. Regardless, they're out of your mission area one way or another.
I shot at him, he warped out, I did good right coach?!
After scaring the ninja-salvager away you're probably feeling pretty good about yourself. Yeah, now he knows you mean business! There's no way he'l come back to YOUR mission area! Wrong. You now have a 15 minute aggression timer; he can now fire back at you for the next 15 minutes. Now, something you have to understand is that most of these folk have large, mean ships back in their hangar bay. Ships that can devour your 3mil skillpoint battleship in about 30 seconds or less. They are quite possibly docking in the local station, switching ships, and might even be on the way back to your mission area already!
If you ever fire on a ninja, finish your looting/salvaging as fast as possible and then dock until your aggression timer is completely expired. I'd like to emphasize that you should wait a full minute after the timer has expired to be sure it's not just a display bug. There was nothing more frustrating to me than to undock, warp back to my mission, and lose my 100mil battleship because my aggression timer was bugged. Do not linger in the mission area after shooting at them. Not every ninja salvager will come back with a bigger ship, but the risk is there, you have been warned!
Even if you dock for 15 minutes they have ways to make the agression timer continue. So if you shoot at them and go dock, they can go get there other ship and head back to your mission. They will then shoot your npc mission wrecks.(not tested by me but I am pretty sure this is how they do it)
Each time they shoot your wreck will prolong the aggression timer, BUT it will not update on your screen. So even though 20-30 minutes have passed they might still be in there shooting your wrecks. So when you warp back in the aggression timer will appear again even though you havent shot anything for 20-60min or as long as they want to wait or if the wrecks disappear.
(someone said that the aggression timer reapears when you undock, but I dont think it appears until you warp back in next to them.)(I got 1 GM that seemed to think this was an exploit, and another one that said its game mechanics)
Sintho
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Omae Gaw'd
Gallente
VMF-214 Blacksheep
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Posted - 2008.08.11 19:26:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Sintho
I got 1 GM that seemed to think this was an exploit, and another one that said its game mechanics)
Most of the GMs don't know about timer mechanics and how bugged they are. Ghost/messy timers been around for ages and still arent fixed, and THE LOGS! OMG! THEY WILL SHOW NOTHING!
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