Devs don't make game policy. They make games. What you want to do is click on the escalate button and get a senior GM involved.

Obvious exploit of broken game mechanics just like using web.

Obvious exploit of broken game mechanics just like using web.

Actually, that sounds like a great idea. Using a dominix with 5 medium reppers and 5 sentry drones. I've had trouble with the whole drones getting aggro, but this makes everything much simpler!

I don't see how this is a banable offense...

You either indirectly pissed off a dev or 2.
Or someone reported you and thought you were macroing.

I saw variations on this years ago in certain COSMOS plexes. Does this mean leaving a Domi afk in a mission room is a bannable offense now?

leaving a ship to RR sentries sitting there killing any npc rat that comes along will seem like automation to those passing by the belts.

This might be the case. After all, leaving a ship to RR sentries sitting there killing any npc rat that comes along will seem like automation to those passing by the belts.

Where in highsec do rats spawn frequently enough, over and over to make this worthwile?

If you can't escalate petition. then contact Internal affairs via email.

Also, if/when you do, I'd be interested in the final verdict.

I totally agree. But the GMs are supposed to have EVIDENCE before the ban is handed down. I KNOW these guys aren't using macros. The whole point was to NOT use macros!

Either this was a lazy GM, or there is a policy that is not being articulated. If it's the latter, all I'm asking for is a clear ruling. If it's the former, I'd like my mates' bans overturned.

The GM's are so stuck in "all the players are out to scam us" mode ...

Hi, I'm with the ISD. I'm locking this thread for reasons completely unclear to myself.

Hi, I'm with the ISD. I'm locking this thread for reasons completely unclear to myself.

It does sound like a good idea doesn't it? not so great against little gnat rats though I would guess. Put the domis far enough apart and it would be ok I suppose.

What is wrong with CCP this week. They are acting like complete tools.

I totally agree. But the GMs are supposed to have EVIDENCE before the ban is handed down. I KNOW these guys aren't using macros. The whole point was to NOT use macros!

Either this was a lazy GM, or there is a policy that is not being articulated. If it's the latter, all I'm asking for is a clear ruling. If it's the former, I'd like my mates' bans overturned.

well i am split in this decision.
I feel like you should be able to do this kind of perma remote tanking BUT i do not support you doing it without any effort whats so ever and earning isk all day long.
If you were salvaging at the same time then its probably ok but if you were standing still and remote repping all day its just pushing it. BUT I do feel you should have gotten a warning prior banning thought and I feel like you found a hole in the system and exploited it.

GL

They caught bans across every account associated with their email address. I think 8 accounts total. Some of those accounts they were planning on combining; guess that isn't going to happen now.

How many of those 8 accounts were also AFK-sentry-domi ratting? How many hours a day were you "exuberantly ratting" on 8 accounts for? Do you realise that bot bans affect all accounts linked to the player that receives the ban? So even though you weren't botting on these accounts, it's the ones you were botting on that got all your accounts banned.

I'd like to see you escalate, and perhaps see if you can get GMs or CCP Screegs to comment in this thread about the behaviour that they banned you for. I'm pretty sure what you got banned for isn't AFK-sentry-domi ratting.

Reading the thread and some old reports from way back around the time T2 BPCs and invention was introduced ... if this happened in a COSMOS site, then this exact thing has been banned before. If it was some mission, then I don't see why it would be an issue, mission can only spit out so much, cosmos does it 24/7.

you're AFKing a drone boat in a highsec belt to kill frigate rats

you should be banned for taking up space

Stick to mindlessly farming your sanctums. Continue to believe that battleship rats don't spawn in highsec.

I thought BOT perma bans are only on the third strike now? Either they are not or the OP is leaving out the prior offences by the accounts. If the account holder has botted in the past before I'm glad to see him go

Would your sentries target someone who came in and stole from one of your wrecks? It'd be a great way for someone to get aggression on you if it can work that way

I totally agree. But the GMs are supposed to have EVIDENCE before the ban is handed down. I KNOW these guys aren't using macros. The whole point was to NOT use macros!

No, drones are smart enough to not do that now, unless something was messed up in 1.5.

If - IF - that happened exactly the way you described it, I can't see a ToS violation.

I am wondering how long you, i mean 'your brother and his friend' were doing this for?

I would hazard a guess that 'they' were leaving this setup running over night, every night or something like that.
In which case, if I was CCP, I would ban you. oops, I mean 'your brother and his friend'.

Or the GM does not believe you and/or you are leaving something out

One big clue in this would be, how long did they run this for and where they by the computer all that time doing other stuff. Like looking at the market, or chatting with other people ingame.

Now I don't know how long they did this, or what other activity they did. But if they did this in, for excample, 12 - 16 hours, and nothing else. Then I can see this as a violation. They gain something and don't need to play actively.

If this was the first and only offence, then a straight up ban might be a bit harsh, a warning is usually more common. thought they might have gotten it, where not home and thus did not reply, and as a result got a ban.

the important question to answer here that so far has been ignored completelly:

Has any character previously had received warnings for previous actions or has been temporarely banned in the past?

If so, then you should have walked a fine line since then.....

What does the length of time they were doing it for matter?

The act of killing NPC's with drones whilst repping them is either allowed or not.

You can not say yeah its fine so log as you only do it for a few hours a day.

As for whether they had any previous infractions on their account, again this does not matter if what they were doing was not an exploit.

What does the length of time they were doing it for matter?

Because that is what the gm's usually have to go on in cases sutch as this. How long did they do it? And what other activity did they do during that time?

If that was the only thing that was being done for I don't know how long, then yes, I can see this as a violation. A bannable? No. But again, it might be that they did get a warning, werent home, and thus got sactioned for it accordingly. It is the same issue with botters.

Is botting fine?

I saw variations on this years ago in certain COSMOS plexes. Does this mean leaving a Domi afk in a mission room is a bannable offense now?

Perhaps if CCP do not want people to be able to make ISK passively in this manner then they should code their game correctly rather than claiming that non-activity = automation.

By this logic anyone logged in and doing nothing is also using automation, which is clearly a stupid conclusion.

My brother and a friend were banned a few days ago. The explanatory mail accused them of "Macroing".

They weren't macroing.

Here's what they were actually doing:

1. Find area in HIGHSEC where rats spawn
2. Turn on local tank
3. Launch a few sentry drones
4. Target each drone and apply remote reps to drones
5. Sit back and watch as wave after wave of rats attack the ship and/or the drones, and are blown up

As you can clearly see, this setup requires NO CLICKING OF ANY KIND, much less automated clicking.

Both players asked for an in-depth explanation of their bans, and received identical copypasta responses claiming that GMs had investigated and found evidence of "automation", and stating that further petitions would be ignored.

YOU'D THINK LAUNCHING SENTRY DRONES AND REMOTE REPAIRING THEM IS OK, but I guess I need to get a Dev ruling on the acceptability of this practice.

(If any dev actually reads this, please PM me with some advice on how I can help my associates get un-banned.)

No it isn't, you are confusing 2 different issues here.

What the OP has described does not require any automation of any kind. It is simply using existing game mechanics.

You can not compare something which requires no automation or input from the player past the initial launching of drones and reppers to something which does require constant input from a player like mining or missioning which are what bots are used for.

So again saying something only becomes an exploit because you have been doing after x amount time is just plain wrong.

Whether you should be able to do something this is a separate argument, the fact is you can and many people do in missions.

Unless CCP has stated that using drones to kill NPC's whilst having a stable tank and ability to RR your drones is a exploit, there they have done nothing wrong.

Now if its a case of a GM has repeatedly tried to convo them and has received no reply and has then presumed they must be using some sort of automation tool then that just shows an alarming lack of in game knowledge on behalf of the GM.

This is only of any relevance if the act of sitting in space killing NPC's with your drones whilst repping them is deemed to be an exploit.

They are then generating income by not doing anything. The game is doing it for them. Same as with bots. The player is not doing anything himself, but are having a program do it for him.

to answer your question.
well it does matter if you can do this endlessly without any effort. Its basically a loop hole! a loop hole is an exploit and its no different from the recent web exploit.

you cant just make endless isk without doing anything whats so ever. Imagine if there was no down time....you could do this for months. Its wrong! If you moved around and salvagd mean while then its great cos you are actually doing something. Its the same like mining and jetting into can. You are doing something. - This part is crutial.

if you had previously had a warning, then do the above its just inviting a ban cos you went from a warning to a loop hole...i do expect you should get banned. Dont try to pass this loop hole as JUST remote repping! Cos its not

I'm not confusing anything since I don't have anything to confuse this with. I'm going by assumtion that they did this for far longer than what is "normal" and including a supposed scenario where they are not at their computer either.

They are then generating income by not doing anything. The game is doing it for them. Same as with bots. The player is not doing anything himself, but are having a program do it for him.

If they did other stuff aswell. Like checking market for stuff to buy or to sell, chatting with others ingame, or using the ingame browser while it is going on in the background then it is fine, they are leaving proof that the activity with the ratting is not the only thing that is going on. They are playing.

If they sert this up, then let this go for a whole day, then it is beginning to become a problem. They are not playing but are still generating income.

Cloaks are different because you are not generating any income then.

to answer your question.
well it does matter if you can do this endlessly without any effort. Its basically a loop hole! a loop hole is an exploit and its no different from the recent web exploit.

you cant just make endless isk without doing anything whats so ever. Imagine if there was no down time....you could do this for months. Its wrong! If you moved around and salvagd mean while then its great cos you are actually doing something. Its the same like mining and jetting into can. You are doing something. - This part is crutial.

if you had previously had a warning, then do the above its just inviting a ban cos you went from a warning to a loop hole...i do expect you should get banned. Dont try to pass this loop hole as JUST remote repping! Cos its not

LOL ...

Buy tons of any item, cheap.
Set up 1-month sell order with attractive, yet higher that you bought for, price.
Log out and wait a month.
You are not playing.
You are doing nothing.
Game is making isk for you.
Return after a month.
Get banned ? Don't think so.

5 pages, 1 email to CCP internal affairs, 1 PM to CCP Guard, no response of any kind

They are all at Fanfest.... they will get back to your tears on Monday I would imagine.

Personally I don;t see the problem? Yet again (OB if the OP is being honest) it's just another example of someone thinking outside the box and getting screwed for it. Imagine what EVE would really be like if nobody ever tried to do something different.

5 pages, 1 email to CCP internal affairs, 1 PM to CCP Guard, no response of any kind

Where does it say anywhere in the EULA/TOS that you can not make is passively?

Over the last couple of month due to RL I have only been able to log into the game to update my skills and that is it and yet I have made hundreds of millions of isk, why, because I set multiple sell orders.

Should I be banned because I made my isk when I was sitting in front of my PC for hours on end?

This is not a loop hole, its a game mechanic, unless you are saying that all those mission runners should also be banned for doing the very same thing

i got no beef with innovation or thinking outside the box. I support it and always amazed at it. Having said that, i do not support botting or using exploits or loop holes specially when there is no risk to you and you can make a tone of isk without no interraction. Do what ever your want to do, but "DO" something.

you are mistaking the issue. Its not about doing it massively. Its about doing it "without" any effort.
yes spam the market/contracts as much as you want with all th stuff you want, i dont care.
i got a life too and i dont spent as much time either as i want.

its a "loop hole in the game mechanic" otherwise you wouldnt get banned! So there is a loop hole in it. Dont try and twist stuff around. You know what i mean. You may not like it, but there it is...Its defenetly not intended.

I dont believe PVE was designed to be a passive (do nothing and be rewarded). This is why all forms of bots are been hunted down. Any bot, from pve bots to market bots to transportation bots. It promotes doing nothing.

He is doing something, making isk without any work, I imagine we all would prefer to do that in real life if we could.

From what I can see you bemoaning the fact that "somebody has to click something"

What's the difference between me afking in a carrier(apart from the obvious 0.0 hazards) in a sanctum (not that I actually do this presently but have done in the past),

What happens if I get somebody else to do the clicking for me? Is that against the rules? As with other people I usually setup some trades for month long exposure and leave them to buy/sell I'm making isk without ever clicking anything for a long time? What's the difference?

However its a mechanic that has been used for years in missions.

If what the OP has stated is the truth, then it should mean all those people who mission afk in their domi's and rattlesnake's should also now be banned from here on in.

Also you tell me how the game needs to be changed to stop people from doing this and how it can be enforced?

Are we now saying people are not allowed to RR their drones?

Does it mean that if you go afk at any point you can now be banned?

Or do we say its okay so long as you do not not do this for some arbitrary amount of time that somebody has picked out of thin air?

Is CCP going to improve the AI so they are not so dumb? Are they going to make so it becomes impossible to RR drones?

If the the person in question comes back every hour to scoop a few worthless wrecks will that make it okay?

Of course these thread could be entirely pointless because the OP is full of ****, we don't know but if we presume he is tellign the truth, its these kinds of action that give GM's a very bad name.

You can not ban somebody because they are using a valid game mechanic that has been used for years in missions and have adapted it for there own purpose.

You cant discuss bans on the forums
Best bet escalate it to a GM

you didnt read OP

He escalated the petitions only to be told by CCP they would ignore all further petitions.

LOL ...

Buy tons of any item, without a clue.
Set up 1-month sell order instead of 3 because lol :smug:
Log out and wait a month.
Someone else lists the same items 0.01 isk lower than your order.
You are not playing.
You are doing nothing.
You are not making isk.
No return after a month.
Get bent? Yes.

@Andrea Roche

So what you mean is that you have no counter to my argument then, that if we go by what the OP has said, people have been banned using a mechanic that has been used for years by mission runners.

okay then.. gotcha