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Public Petition to resolve lag in large fleetfights

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Pherusa Plumosa Minmatar Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.11 19:24:00 - [91] It is no DB-Problem, it is no bandwith problem, it is no hardware problem. I guess, it is still the Software code. In eve, a few systems run on one core. Ideally, one system runs on one core. But it is still not possible to divide the computation of one system to more cores (Jita on Sunday.. -.- ) So every system with 400+ (more or less) is lagging, because one single core can't handle the computations. I think CCP is already rewriting this part. The second problem is the load-balancing part. In contrary to most clusters, that can divide the data that has to be computed into parts and handle it parallel, but in Eve, data is created dynamically by the players. You have to make assumptions about player-movements, and reserve resources on your clusters, depending on the probabilty of the scenarios that might happen. (Similar Problem: Traffic Control. Any optimal solution to avoid traffic jams yet? no. ) And I guess this two Problems are only the tip of the iceberg. Even for the 2 problems mentioned above, there is no optimal solution, it is enough stuff to keep dozens of chairs busy. But let's assume, 500 vs. 500 would run lagfree? People would bring numbers until the battle would lag again, because the current game mechanic encourages and rewards more player numbers. __________________________________________________
Interscene Minmatar E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.08.11 23:27:00 - [92] People speak the truth saying lag wasn't this bad a few years ago for fleet battles - it really wasn't. I remember a big fight in VFK and another in 3JN with 100vs100 that had about ten/twenty seconds module lag or so. It wasn't pretty but it was managable. I can only assume it was because caps arn't as prevelant as they are now and each node handled less traffic. I must say, there's something to say for CCPs code - if it works the way I think it does. It's not too adaptive. VFK has been a troublespot for a while now, lag is almost managable there the last few weeks. I believe thats because it's leeching off neighbouring systems. The most recent lagfest was over a system not seeing a large amount of combat and it CRAWLED like you wouldn't believe. I think threads like this SHOULD become the norm. I want epic battles with manageable lag and without players ****ing about it visibly and constantly I don't think the needed action is going to be taken. The action needed now is DRASTIC. I think everyone here agree's that Big Fleet battles are Unmanagable* under current game conditions. What people also seem to agree is that neither small patches or small hardware upgrades are going to work. Obviously whatever has to be done to permit the sort of battles needed is DRASTIC. Expensive Hardware upgrades and lengthy/complicated code-rewrites. Frankly, I think CCP are probably going to baulk at the idea of it without pressure. This pressure needs to be put on CCP - Players arn't satisfied - whole alliances arn't satisfied. If you sympathise with this situation - it's time to spam this thread with your signitures. I'm not an IRON diplomat or a spokesmen, my words and opinions are my own. Good luck taking them off me, though.
Jaabaa Prime Minmatar Quam Singulari	Posted - 2008.08.11 23:33:00 - [93] Originally by: Angry Cyno Edited by: Angry Cyno on 10/08/2008 16:27:41 Now is time CCP start doing something about the massive lag in large fleet fights! sig with you name below to support this And btw i am not doing this because is fun so please do not post stupid reply`s Thanks again (yes this is a alt) You know what, get the fk out of your 0.0 lag parties, out of the mega blobs, out of POS lag and get back into the game. Screw the people pushing you to get lagged and "have fun" in a fleet seeing no targets when the enemy jumps in. You should know the limitations of EVE's servers by now, if you don't then its your problem but I know one thing, I'm far happier now investing my SPs in low sec fights that I EVER** was in a Dreadnaught or a Carrier. So get out of there, have some fun, and enjoy EVE as it should be. (P.S. and forget about crappy POS warfare) --
Cruel Crow	Posted - 2008.08.11 23:37:00 - [94] Maybe CCP can be a internet provider?
Natalia Kovac Minmatar Phoenix Tribe Valhalla Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.12 02:49:00 - [95] I have been loading system since 2003! Omg CCP fix the bloody lag!!1
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Tri Optimum Ev0ke	Posted - 2008.08.12 04:30:00 - [96] Originally by: kittypaws Now you have lag with only 300 people in local! Quote: Now you are stuck in a small fleet figth for one hour just to load the grid, huh?! ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
Pan Crastus Anti-Metagaming League	Posted - 2008.08.12 08:50:00 - [97] Originally by: Jaabaa Prime Originally by: Angry Cyno Edited by: Angry Cyno on 10/08/2008 16:27:41 Now is time CCP start doing something about the massive lag in large fleet fights! sig with you name below to support this And btw i am not doing this because is fun so please do not post stupid reply`s Thanks again (yes this is a alt) You know what, get the fk out of your 0.0 lag parties, out of the mega blobs, out of POS lag and get back into the game. Screw the people pushing you to get lagged and "have fun" in a fleet seeing no targets when the enemy jumps in. You should know the limitations of EVE's servers by now, if you don't then its your problem but I know one thing, I'm far happier now investing my SPs in low sec fights that I EVER** was in a Dreadnaught or a Carrier. So get out of there, have some fun, and enjoy EVE as it should be. (P.S. and forget about crappy POS warfare) If people heed that advice, territorial warfare in EVE is dead and those who have 0.0 regions now can keep them forever. You need 150+ to attack one of those cynojammed systems ... I'm sorry, but EVE is designed for blobbing and CCP fails at supporting the current game design. How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
Malcanis We are Legend eXceed.	Posted - 2008.08.12 10:52:00 - [98] Edited by: Malcanis on 12/08/2008 10:52:46 Originally by: Jaabaa Prime Originally by: Angry Cyno Edited by: Angry Cyno on 10/08/2008 16:27:41 Now is time CCP start doing something about the massive lag in large fleet fights! sig with you name below to support this And btw i am not doing this because is fun so please do not post stupid reply`s Thanks again (yes this is a alt) You know what, get the fk out of your 0.0 lag parties, out of the mega blobs, out of POS lag and get back into the game. Screw the people pushing you to get lagged and "have fun" in a fleet seeing no targets when the enemy jumps in. You should know the limitations of EVE's servers by now, if you don't then its your problem but I know one thing, I'm far happier now investing my SPs in low sec fights that I EVER** was in a Dreadnaught or a Carrier. So get out of there, have some fun, and enjoy EVE as it should be. (P.S. and forget about crappy POS warfare) tbh theres plenty of small gang PvP to be found in 0.0 as well, if one only goes looking for it. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Bonny Lee Caldari Liga Freier Terraner Cosmic Anomalies	Posted - 2008.08.12 11:24:00 - [99] If you want to make a petition that is at least useful you should not only ask for lag-free large battles but extend your wish to very large, very very large and unbelievable large battles etc... Cause CCP solved the problems in some cases but we had no better idea then bringing enough people to lag again. So your petition atm is a huge fail.
Red Desire Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.08.12 12:52:00 - [100] CCP failed on all accounts. Ok they can't do crap about lag, still they could of found gameplay solutions which wouldn't let the lag impact to be so great on the players. Allowing that some players to have no lag at all or little lag compared to others who look at their screen for 1 hour -- fail Allowing to get killed while not being in control of your ship --- fail The list could go on, you can always look for solutions, but sticking your head in the sand ...hoping to go away ... faillll.
Lrrp Minmatar The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.08.12 14:54:00 - [101] Want to end the epic lag fest fleet battles? Start with the reason they occur. 1) Sovereign ownership of regions/systems. Do away with the whole concept of space ownership. 2) POS's. Eliminate them as sources of income/ship building. No POS's, no reason for large fleets to come into a system to destroy them. Have all moon minerals be incorporated into new types of asteroids. 3)Have all outposts revert to NPC stations. The idea that the alliance controlling space has sole rights to the outposts is another reason for large fleet battles. 4)Limit fleet size. Make fleets only able to fit 50 pilots. While I know alliances will then form up multiple fleets, still it will discourage 250 vs 250 pilot size fleet from being used and maybe see new strategies developed. While my suggestions are harsh, so is mind numbing lag. Re-introduce sovereign based space only after lag is under control. As others have said, Eve is not what it is promoted to being. That is to say a game with epic space battles. So far all we get is epic lag. I hope CCP understands that new space based games are being developed. If they are at all like Eve and have far less lag, then I suspect a lot of pvp players will be dropping their Eve subscriptions for the new games. While I enjoy Eve, if something comes remotely close to Eve's game style and is better coded/equipped I will take my subscription fees there. I would suggest to whomever is the CEO or CFO that they tell their staff to keep us informed about just what they are doing to improve game play instead of blandly telling us it is being worked on. After all, when the subscriptions start free falling, they can't say they weren't informed.
Pan Crastus Anti-Metagaming League	Posted - 2008.08.12 16:01:00 - [102] Originally by: Lrrp Want to end the epic lag fest fleet battles? Start with the reason they occur. 1) Sovereign ownership of regions/systems. Do away with the whole concept of space ownership. 2) POS's. Eliminate them as sources of income/ship building. No POS's, no reason for large fleets to come into a system to destroy them. Have all moon minerals be incorporated into new types of asteroids. 3)Have all outposts revert to NPC stations. The idea that the alliance controlling space has sole rights to the outposts is another reason for large fleet battles. 4)Limit fleet size. Make fleets only able to fit 50 pilots. While I know alliances will then form up multiple fleets, still it will discourage 250 vs 250 pilot size fleet from being used and maybe see new strategies developed. While my suggestions are harsh, so is mind numbing lag. Re-introduce sovereign based space only after lag is under control. As others have said, Eve is not what it is promoted to being. That is to say a game with epic space battles. So far all we get is epic lag. I hope CCP understands that new space based games are being developed. If they are at all like Eve and have far less lag, then I suspect a lot of pvp players will be dropping their Eve subscriptions for the new games. While I enjoy Eve, if something comes remotely close to Eve's game style and is better coded/equipped I will take my subscription fees there. I would suggest to whomever is the CEO or CFO that they tell their staff to keep us informed about just what they are doing to improve game play instead of blandly telling us it is being worked on. After all, when the subscriptions start free falling, they can't say they weren't informed. While you make some valid points, consider: * no space ownership, no station ownership, no moon POS - what does that leave to fight over? fighting lag by removing reasons to fight is not what I'd like to see in a PVP game and I don't want EVE to be limited to chokepoint gate camping and carebear ganking * 50 man fleets change nothing at all, why would they discourage 250 or 500 man blobs?
Lrrp Minmatar The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.08.12 16:17:00 - [103] Reason to fight would be the moon minerals now in the asteroid belts. Perhaps without the POS's, fights would be with smaller class ships. I dunno, maybe make the asteroid belts with the moon style mins have a cyno style jammer built in. Something akin to not being able to use a mwd in a mission deadspace. I seem to remember alliances trying to control systems with 10/10 complexes so something similar. Anyway these are just thoughts and need to be expanded upon.
Jenny' JoJo Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.08.12 16:52:00 - [104] Originally by: Lrrp Reason to fight would be the moon minerals now in the asteroid belts. Perhaps without the POS's, fights would be with smaller class ships. I dunno, maybe make the asteroid belts with the moon style mins have a cyno style jammer built in. Something akin to not being able to use a mwd in a mission deadspace. I seem to remember alliances trying to control systems with 10/10 complexes so something similar. Anyway these are just thoughts and need to be expanded upon. Exactly. People need to get it in their eads that the only reason people are in 0.0 in the firstplace is to make trillions from POS networks. Yes Trillions. This is why POS wars etc etc are creating superlag bombs. If your pos is making 15bil/month of reactions from a rare moon, you are going to want to get a army to defend it or attack it. People need to clue up. 0.0 is all about eve OIL = pos moon mins. Trickery, from promoting ratting to belt mining just so people can get enough numbers to maintain POS's is extreamly common. Refresh to see next real life CCP Sig(25 total)

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