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Yassarin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.14 09:25:00 - [1] I recently raised a petition for Salvage Drones. After all, we have all sorts of other drones, it make no sense that you have to haul a big ship everywhere or tractor everything - the tractor beams and salvage mods take up valuable slots. Also, having SDs would mean you could salvage whilst you fight. I got the response below and am therefore doing as advised. "Hi, This sounds like a pretty good idea. I suggest that you post about the new idea for optimizing and improving the game in the Features and Ideas Discussion section of our official forums. The Dev Team regularly reads it and takes feedback into consideration while working their hardest to improve the game. Here is a direct link to the section: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=channel&channelID=3523 You can also try to create a topic on the Council of Stellar Management (CSM) boards and get people to support it. The CSM will then bring the issue to the attention of CCP's developers. Here is a link to the assembly hall boards: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=channel&channelID=752166 This would be the most effective way for you to get your voice heard, since we in the GM team have no direct ties to the Development team. Thank you for contacting Customer Support. Please do not hesitate to contact us again if you have any further questions or issues. Best regards, GM DiscoNap EVE Online Customer Support" _____________________ I'm not afraid to die My soul will carry on You can't kill me I'm Imortal
Gabriel Darkefyre Crystal Ship	Posted - 2008.08.14 10:17:00 - [2] Edited by: Gabriel Darkefyre on 14/08/2008 10:18:30 Just a minor point, Posting GM Correspondence isn't allowed on the forum. Having said that, it's not a bad idea though I would personally prefer to see Tug Drones implemented ie Drones that'll fly out to a wreck and pull the whole thing back to within 1500m of your ship from Looting/Salvaging Purposes. They would need to be reasonably fast on the outbound trip being slowed down by the mass of whatever they're towing on the return trip. Explanation for this would be that it needs to be a flying powerful engine in order to be able to move the mass of a wreck. So they'd probably return a Frigate Wreck at around the same rate as a Standard Tractor Beam while a Battleship Wreck would take more time to pull in. Of course, to pull in wrecks faster all you would need to do is dedicate multiple drones per wreck to offset the Mass. The problem with Salvaging at that range would be the Size of Cargo Hold a Drone would need in order to be able to Salvage any Wreck it gets to. Tenative Support therefore, I like the Idea however it would need careful consideration as to Drone Volume/Bandwidth/Cargo Hold Size. It would also need to be done in such a way that these Drones could only Salvage/Tractor a Wreck that You, Your Corp or Your Fleet Created.
Xanja 2H Industries	Posted - 2008.08.14 11:13:00 - [3] Edited by: Xanja on 14/08/2008 11:13:35 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=513712 -----------------
Lia Gaeren Pole Dancing Vixens	Posted - 2008.08.14 11:15:00 - [4] I've been wondering about this for a while - suspect it may be a little too close to 'easy mode' gaming though. +1 even so.
Frank Ziiwos	Posted - 2008.08.14 11:25:00 - [5] This is a horrible idea. There should not be drones for everything. Otherwise we will make drone ships capable of doing everything imaginable. Tractoring and salvaging wrecks should take up a high slot that could otherwise be used on weapons.
Yassarin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.20 20:48:00 - [6] Hmmm, sorry - didn't realise about not posting GM mails... A terrible idea? IRL the big ships would have pilots flying fighters and salvage missions for you. In Eve Drone tech replaces the human element for a lot of things - the same way that IRL robots have replaced humans in car factories. You still need a human/pod pilot to organise them.
Slade Trillgon Siorai Iontach	Posted - 2008.08.20 21:25:00 - [7] Had them once and they got rid of them. Doubt they will be back...ever. Slade
Yassarin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.20 21:37:00 - [8] Why did they get rid?
Venkul Mul	Posted - 2008.08.20 23:18:00 - [9] Originally by: Frank Ziiwos This is a horrible idea. There should not be drones for everything. Otherwise we will make drone ships capable of doing everything imaginable. Tractoring and salvaging wrecks should take up a high slot that could otherwise be used on weapons. Horrible? A ship at the cost of drone bandwidth and drone space will have an alternative to tractor and salvager. Good, for example, for big PvP battles where people often don't deploy drones. After the battle, if you are the victor, you could use the drones to salvage. To avoid having 2 modules in 1 package, the best option would be medium/heavy hauler drones, moving the wreck toward the ship and small salvage drone, only salvaging the ship and with limited cargo space (1 m3 would be more than sufficent for most ships, if scrapmetal was removed from teh salvage tables).
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.20 23:20:00 - [10] Originally by: Slade Trillgon Had them once and they got rid of them. Doubt they will be back...ever. Slade They were never deployed. The skill was available for a short period doing one of thw training missions, then it was removed.
Marcus Gideon Excessive Force	Posted - 2008.08.20 23:22:00 - [11] I've seen threads calling for these before... and I think they'd be awesome every time. Drones all have a listed cargo capacity, but only Miners take advantage of it. It would be great if drones could loot for you after the fight... but having specific drones that salvage for you would be great too. I could be flying a mission Domi with 3 tractor/3 salvager... or guns, and an extra wing of Salvage Drones instead.
Athre The Higher Standard	Posted - 2008.08.21 01:33:00 - [12] More options for drones :)
Apple Boy Wyverns of Dionysus Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.08.25 16:53:00 - [13] fully support the salvage drones
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.08.25 17:32:00 - [14] Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 25/08/2008 17:32:33 No. Salvaging isn't supposed to be an extra form of loot. Salvaging is already easy if you have a ship meant for it, we don't need any mechanisms for easy salvage. Right now you either need to sacrifice combat capability for the increased profits or bring a specialized salvage ship, as it should be.
Imrys	Posted - 2008.08.25 19:48:00 - [15] make them heavy drones and you would have to sacrifice combat capability to use them. 25m3 and 25 bandwidth.
Elhina Novae Destruction Reborn CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2008.08.25 19:59:00 - [16] Support. Afterall your argument "you need to sacrifice a high-slot for tractor/salvager" doesn't hold, since salvager drones would be the same, I need to sacrifice that extra DPS they do for salvager/pulling drones. Salvager drone specs: Based on Berserker (speed FTW!) 25m3 Half speed when pulling in a wreck (?) ? ------------ Originally by: Boz Well Originally by: SurrenderMonkey ... There's an Amarr problem? Nothing that can't be solved by more Minmatar nerfs.
Eran Laude The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2008.08.25 20:56:00 - [17] Drones need some love ever since their nerf last year. So give us variety like this!
Tesseract d'Urberville Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord	Posted - 2008.08.25 21:22:00 - [18] I love this idea! As mentioned, though, these drones should consume significant dronebay space and bandwidth, and they should be slower than the equivalent modules. That is, these drones should not make the existing tractor beam and salvager modules obsolete. --------------------------------- Thomas Hardy is going to eat your brains.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.08.25 21:38:00 - [19] More drone variety is always good. Make them like mining drones, always having to bring the stuff back to you. -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi
Marcus Gideon Gallente Excessive Force	Posted - 2008.08.25 22:11:00 - [20] Originally by: Kahega Amielden No. Salvaging isn't supposed to be an extra form of loot. Salvaging is already easy if you have a ship meant for it, we don't need any mechanisms for easy salvage. Right now you either need to sacrifice combat capability for the increased profits or bring a specialized salvage ship, as it should be. 1) Salvage IS another form of loot. That's why you get better stuff from L4 wrecks than you do L1. But you are right that it's easy enough if you fit Salvage/Tractor instead of guns. 2) From the point above, we see that "sacrifice combat capability" has thus far meant "guns -> salvage gear". But what would adding drones do, except lead to the same thing. Who's said yet, how large a Salvage Drone would have to be? Why not make a single variant, that's Medium or even Heavy sized. Then small Frigates won't be using them very often (which is fine), and even larger Cruisers will have to make room for them (room that could be given to Scouts instead). That way... you could fit regular guns for combat, and carry 1-2 Salvage Drones for cleanup after. You'd be causing just as much damage as you would with 2x Salvagers, 2x Tractors, and 5x Hammer II. Only now you're using your own guns and ammo, and letting the drones clean up for you... instead of letting the drones kill and you clean up after them. --- Don't take my ranting personally. I may just be arguing the topic, unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word. "Players don't want Variety. They want THE BEST"
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.08.25 22:53:00 - [21] Quote: Afterall your argument "you need to sacrifice a high-slot for tractor/salvager" doesn't hold, since salvager drones would be the same, I need to sacrifice that extra DPS they do for salvager/pulling drones. Except a lot of ships have more drone bay than drone bandwidth, ESPECIALLY gallente ships. They could easily be able to have enough drones to maximize damage AND salvage on the go Quote: 1) Salvage IS another form of loot. That's why you get better stuff from L4 wrecks than you do L1. But you are right that it's easy enough if you fit Salvage/Tractor instead of guns. 2) From the point above, we see that "sacrifice combat capability" has thus far meant "guns -> salvage gear". But what would adding drones do, except lead to the same thing. Who's said yet, how large a Salvage Drone would have to be? Why not make a single variant, that's Medium or even Heavy sized. Then small Frigates won't be using them very often (which is fine), and even larger Cruisers will have to make room for them (room that could be given to Scouts instead). That way... you could fit regular guns for combat, and carry 1-2 Salvage Drones for cleanup after. You'd be causing just as much damage as you would with 2x Salvagers, 2x Tractors, and 5x Hammer II. Only now you're using your own guns and ammo, and letting the drones clean up for you... instead of letting the drones kill and you clean up after them. 1) No, it's not. Salvaging is supposed to take effort. L4 wrecks don't give more salvage than L1 wrecks, battleship wrecks give better salvage than frigate wrecks, though. Looting is supposed to be kind of a "no-brainer" (at least in ratting and such, although if speedrunning missions for LPs/standing not quite so), killing the rats gives you the loot. There's a reason you need special modules for it, it's an OPTION for people who want to spend additional time and effort. 2) Again, many ships have larger drone bays than they do drone bandwidth 3) Your idea is flawed. With a gun ship, you sacrifice WAY MORE DPS by getting tractors/salvagers than you do by sacrificing drones. With drone ships, there's enough drone bay to fit for max damage AND have a full drone compliment out.
Marcus Gideon Gallente Excessive Force	Posted - 2008.08.26 02:55:00 - [22] Edited by: Marcus Gideon on 26/08/2008 02:57:04 Originally by: Kahega Amielden Except a lot of ships have more drone bay than drone bandwidth, ESPECIALLY gallente ships. They could easily be able to have enough drones to maximize damage AND salvage on the go ... 1) No, it's not. Salvaging is supposed to take effort. L4 wrecks don't give more salvage than L1 wrecks, battleship wrecks give better salvage than frigate wrecks, though. Looting is supposed to be kind of a "no-brainer" (at least in ratting and such, although if speedrunning missions for LPs/standing not quite so), killing the rats gives you the loot. There's a reason you need special modules for it, it's an OPTION for people who want to spend additional time and effort. 2) Again, many ships have larger drone bays than they do drone bandwidth 3) Your idea is flawed. With a gun ship, you sacrifice WAY MORE DPS by getting tractors/salvagers than you do by sacrificing drones. With drone ships, there's enough drone bay to fit for max damage AND have a full drone compliment out. While it's true that Gallente would be at an advantage, why is this different than any other Drone advantage they already have? Sure, you could fit a Webber yourself, or you could carry Webber Drones. You could fit Tracking Disruptors, or you could carry Disruptor Drones. You could even fit Miner lasers (high slot example for ya!), or carry some Miner Drones. So show me where Salvagers are such an detriment to gameplay... 1) Salvaging doesn't really "take effort", and it's not terribly elite, when any Business 10 step will give you the skillbook for free. And yes (for those who didn't know), even if you started out Industry or Military, you can go around to the others and get their free stuff too. 2) Larger bays vs. Bandwidth = Amarr. Larger Bandwidth vs Bay = Gallente. So now you're saying you envy the Amarr AS WELL AS the Gallente? 3) Gunships do have to sacrifice DPS if they fit something else, because they're GUNSHIPS... and they lose out on DPS if they fit a proper Tank too. If you want max DPS, then you probably can't do much else besides fight, and that includes keeping yourself alive if your target starts shooting back. So maybe Gunships aren't your best example? Some ships would work better with the Salvager Drone option than others... there's no argument there. But that's no different than any other module out there. Interceptors make better use out of MWD than an Exhumer ever will... so what's the point? My point is, that everyone would benefit all around if Salvager Drones were available, some more than others... but everyone to some degree. That HAC gunship could fit his usual guns AND carry a Salvager for cleanup. And that droner would still have to sacrifice space and bandwidth to carry Salvagers when he could be carrying Ogres instead. --- Don't take my ranting personally. I may just be arguing the topic, unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word. "Players don't want Variety. They want THE BEST"
Karentaki Fighting While Intoxicated Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.08.26 11:20:00 - [23] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Salvaging is already easy if you have a ship meant for it Oh yeah, sorry, I forgot about marauders. I'll just go spend several HUNDRED MILL on the only specialised salvage ship in EVE. Originally by: Kahega Amielden Your idea is flawed. With a gun ship, you sacrifice WAY MORE DPS by getting tractors/salvagers than you do by sacrificing drones. With drone ships, there's enough drone bay to fit for max damage AND have a full drone compliment out. Right... so I take it tracking disruptors, sensor damps, and most other E-War modules should be nerfed too cause they're better against gun ships than drone ships? Also, many gun ships have utility slots that could easily be used to fit a salvager without really losing any DPS. If salvager drones were made as medium drones, all battleships could field them, but smaller ships (other than specialised drone ships) would have difficulty fitting them. That difficult enough for you? /supported Quote: EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.08.26 17:30:00 - [24] Originally by: Karentaki Oh yeah, sorry, I forgot about marauders. I'll just go spend several HUNDRED MILL on the only specialised salvage ship in EVE. You're naive. My Executioner is perfect for salvaging. Ask your Mission Bear friends. Lows: Overdrive Injector II, Nanofiber Internal Structure II Mids: Small Capacitor Battery II, 1MN Afterburner II Highs: Salvager I, Salvager I Rigs: Salvage Tackle I, Salvage Tackle I, Salvage Tackle I Before you go making such a blanket statement such as that, do your homework. Most of us Ninja Salvagers do. Just because you run Missions doesn't mean you're exempt from needing to think. No support from me, unless they suddenly give my Executioner a dronebay. We're Recruiting!
Ackuula	Posted - 2008.08.27 18:11:00 - [25] give me a tractor drone and I could care less about a salvage drone, but hey if they want to make both, bonus
cloud55111 Gallente Azure Lagoon Inc	Posted - 2008.08.28 01:07:00 - [26] fully support the Salvage Drones
Padanemi	Posted - 2008.09.04 13:22:00 - [27] Sounds like a good idea. At first. Then you realise all you really want is LOOT drones.
Gen kan	Posted - 2008.09.04 22:46:00 - [28] One way to balance the idea, would be a small, or medium salvage drone that does its thing on the wreck, and then puts the salvage in a can where the wreck was, rather than brining it back to the ship. Along with that, you could have a modified SENTRY drone, called Tractor Drone, or some such. This would pull in cans/wrecks like a tractor beam, but at a slower speed.
ian666 Rave Technologies Inc. C0VEN	Posted - 2008.09.05 02:00:00 - [29]
Hesod Adee Perkone	Posted - 2008.09.05 02:38:00 - [30] I think that the salvage and tractor drones should be separate. Salvage drones could fly out, salvage wrecks until their internal hold is too full for salvaging another wreck, then return to your drone bay. But you will have to move the stuff from the drones hold to your main hold before they will launch again. Tractor drones shouldn't be too hard to visualise. You target a wreck/jetcan, they fly to it. Then you hope that they tractor it back towards you, instead of tractoring it in circles while they orbit it. One it returns with the can, it drops it by your ship while it awaits the next order. You still have to remove the loot from the can. But I don't think that these drones should ever automatically target a wreck or can.

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