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Is can flipping deemed an exploit?

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Godsdood	Posted - 2008.08.15 00:07:00 - [1] A few people told me it is an exploit and petitionable, is this true? Or is it still a "legal" way of getting mining barges to aggress you? I don't understand how putting an item in someone else's jet can can change the ownership of that can, was this intentionable or just a dev not thinking when he came up with the jet can mining concept? So this then means the original owner can just put something in that can and change ownership again ... A honest question and not a whine.
Godsdood	Posted - 2008.08.15 00:07:00 - [2] A few people told me it is an exploit and petitionable, is this true? Or is it still a "legal" way of getting mining barges to aggress you? I don't understand how putting an item in someone else's jet can can change the ownership of that can, was this intentionable or just a dev not thinking when he came up with the jet can mining concept? So this then means the original owner can just put something in that can and change ownership again ... A honest question and not a whine.
Atomos Darksun Infortunatus Eventus Obsidian Empire	Posted - 2008.08.15 00:08:00 - [3] Nope. Not petitionable at all. Originally by: Amoxin My vent is talking to me in a devil voice... Atomos' Guide to Forum Flaming
Atomos Darksun Infortunatus Eventus Obsidian Empire	Posted - 2008.08.15 00:08:00 - [4] Nope. Not petitionable at all. Originally by: Amoxin My vent is talking to me in a devil voice... Atomos' Guide to Forum Flaming
Chaos Incarnate Has No Face	Posted - 2008.08.15 00:09:00 - [5] Edited by: Chaos Incarnate on 15/08/2008 00:08:55 Nope Please continue, the carebears need a good cage-shaking now and again or they get uppity Quote: "Rabble Rabble Rabble!" "Just sitting out here saying "Rabble Rabble" isn't going to fix anything!" "But we don't know what else to do!" "Rabble Rabble Rabble!"
Chaos Incarnate Has No Face	Posted - 2008.08.15 00:09:00 - [6] Edited by: Chaos Incarnate on 15/08/2008 00:08:55 Nope Please continue, the carebears need a good cage-shaking now and again or they get uppity Quote: "Rabble Rabble Rabble!" "Just sitting out here saying "Rabble Rabble" isn't going to fix anything!" "But we don't know what else to do!" "Rabble Rabble Rabble!"
Somealt Ofmine	Posted - 2008.08.15 00:17:00 - [7] Last I knew you weren't supposed to do it in "starter" systems, bud. Other than that, it's fair game.
Somealt Ofmine	Posted - 2008.08.15 00:17:00 - [8] Last I knew you weren't supposed to do it in "starter" systems, bud. Other than that, it's fair game.
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Umbra Synergy Final Retribution Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.15 00:24:00 - [9] you are clearly misunderstanding how can flipping works, but no it is not an exploit nor is it banned in starter systems can BAITING is banned in starter systems Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to: "Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Umbra Synergy Final Retribution Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.15 00:24:00 - [10] you are clearly misunderstanding how can flipping works, but no it is not an exploit nor is it banned in starter systems can BAITING is banned in starter systems Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to: "Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."

Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.08.15 00:33:00 - [11] Edited by: Zeba on 15/08/2008 00:33:37 Mining into a can with 27500m3 that you can pop out the arse of a frigate is the exploit. However it was turned into a feature due to the entire new pirate/greifer profession it allowed. /hug CCP inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Eternal Error Exitus Acta Probant	Posted - 2008.08.15 00:41:00 - [12] Troll. 0/10.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar Holy Church Of Garmonism	Posted - 2008.08.15 00:44:00 - [13] Originally by: Tortun Nahme you are clearly misunderstanding how can flipping works, but no it is not an exploit nor is it banned in starter systems can BAITING is banned in starter systems I plead the 5th! I have never can baited in a starter system! You're not afraid of the dark, are you?
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Umbra Synergy Final Retribution Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.15 00:47:00 - [14] liar, you never pleaded the 5th, for that you would have to stfu Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to: "Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.08.15 00:50:00 - [15] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Originally by: Tortun Nahme you are clearly misunderstanding how can flipping works, but no it is not an exploit nor is it banned in starter systems can BAITING is banned in starter systems I plead the 5th! I have never can baited in a starter system! But is it can baiting if you label the can things like, 'Fight Me!' or 'I DARE U 2 TAK MAH LOOTZ AH SHOOTZ U DED!!!1111'? inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Ashlee Darksky	Posted - 2008.08.15 01:03:00 - [16] Can flipping = Jetting your own can, opening theirs and putting their stuff in your can. Can baiting = Dropping cans, putting crap in them in order to tempt noobs to take the stuff. When they do, you pop them. To my knowledge flipping is OK anywhere, baiting is frowned on in newbie systems. You'll find plenty of can baiters outside most missions hubs, generally flying around, e-peening and smacking in local --- I see fail everywhere, and it's like they don't even know they're failing ---
Re'taka Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2008.08.15 01:50:00 - [17] nope cant fliping isnt an exploit, and it is fun tbh, though i have more fun putting a remote shield rep on my amarr frig and useing it on nubs who think im attacking with a blue laser, and shoot back
Viqtoria Caldari Groping Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.08.15 01:54:00 - [18] Originally by: Re'taka nope cant fliping isnt an exploit, and it is fun tbh, though i have more fun putting a remote shield rep on my amarr frig and useing it on nubs who think im attacking with a blue laser, and shoot back Please keep your signature on-topic.
Hesod Adee Militants of Xen	Posted - 2008.08.15 02:57:00 - [19] Originally by: Godsdood I don't understand how putting an item in someone else's jet can can change the ownership of that can, Can flipping doesn't work that way. Instead it works by someone jettisoning something to create their own can, then moving everything from the first can into it (putting an aggro flag on themselves in the process). The first can then pops because it is empty. Quote: was this intentionable or just a dev not thinking when he came up with the jet can mining concept? Jetcan mining was something players came up with on their own. All the devs have done with it is set cans to give aggression when stolen from.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar Holy Church Of Garmonism	Posted - 2008.08.15 03:01:00 - [20] Originally by: Tortun Nahme liar, you never pleaded the 5th, for that you would have to stfu You're not afraid of the dark, are you?

Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.08.15 03:23:00 - [21] Annoying?, yes. Lame?, yes. Pathetic losers do it?, yes. Exploit? No. And it is appropriate that it is NOT an exploit, at least in the current form of the game. When can flipping becomes so common and wide spread that even intelligent folks willing to spend a bit of effort moving systems still cannot avoid them, THEN it should probably be nerfed. So long as an intelligent player has "practical" options to deal with the problem, its not a problem.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.08.15 09:18:00 - [22] Jetcan ownership should be removed. It'd eliminate this issue once and for all (and eliminate wreck ownership while we're at it). Not in your cargo hold = not yours. Should be simple enough to understand even for the most dimwitted noob. -------- Ideas for: Mining
ImUrDestiny Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.08.15 09:33:00 - [23] Originally by: Zeba Mining into a can with 27500m3 that you can pop out the arse of a frigate is the exploit. /thread
Arana Tellen Gallente Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.08.15 09:35:00 - [24] Originally by: Re'taka nope cant fliping isnt an exploit, and it is fun tbh, though i have more fun putting a remote shield rep on my amarr frig and useing it on nubs who think im attacking with a blue laser, and shoot back that would be newbie griefing, get out there and find some real targets pilot! --------------------------------- Oh noes! Originally by: CCP Greyscale moderated - mother abuse - Mitnal
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.08.15 10:00:00 - [25] Originally by: Godsdood dev not thinking when he came up with the jet can mining concept Obvious troll became obvious right around here. - DesuSigs
Arthalion Thoidon Caldari Splint Eye Probabilities Inc. Dawn of Transcendence	Posted - 2008.08.15 10:03:00 - [26] Originally by: Abrazzar Jetcan ownership should be removed. It'd eliminate this issue once and for all (and eliminate wreck ownership while we're at it). Not in your cargo hold = not yours. Should be simple enough to understand even for the most dimwitted noob. Things used to be like that. After years of complaints by miners and mission runners CCP changed the system to what it is now. I can already here 'the screams of millions of high sec inhabitants if the old system were to come back.
Nexus1972 Pat Sharp's Potato Rodeo Daedalus Hegemony	Posted - 2008.08.15 10:12:00 - [27] Originally by: Abrazzar Jetcan ownership should be removed. It'd eliminate this issue once and for all (and eliminate wreck ownership while we're at it). Not in your cargo hold = not yours. Should be simple enough to understand even for the most dimwitted noob. What about if someone has an ancored container - is tht theirs? originally can owndership was given so that the carebears could retaliate if their stuff was stolen, but then it opened up a whole new way to kill macrominers originally but then spread to carebear baiting. All that will happen is griefers will then just fly around blowing up jetcans, which to be honest would be griefing in its purest form because it benefits no-one. Can flipping, baiting and even suiciding have their benefits. --------------------- Pat Sharpe's Potato Rodeo
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.08.15 10:16:00 - [28] Originally by: Nexus1972 All that will happen is griefers will then just fly around blowing up jetcans, which to be honest would be griefing in its purest form because it benefits no-one. Can flipping, baiting and even suiciding have their benefits. Blowing up someone's jet can full of ore has exactly the same benefit as blowing up their ship. - DesuSigs
Reven Cordelle Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.08.15 10:26:00 - [29] Can Flipping is a legitimate pirate activity. Its probably the only "risk" of high sec mining when using jetcans. I flip canz often, hell... once I flipped a flipped can, and got a pirate target instead of a miner.. that was pretty fun, the vexor killmail looks a lot better than a bantam one. People know its fliptime when the BlasterRax is in town. Can Baiting is petitionable when in Starter Systems. "Free Loot 4 U" is strangely still taken as bait by the humble ibises. One time an Ibis looted one of my rat wrecks, the Thorax one-shots Ibises with no problem, must have killed that guy 3 or 4 times. He just kept undocking with a flag... What would you do in a situation like that!
Nexus1972 Pat Sharp's Potato Rodeo Daedalus Hegemony	Posted - 2008.08.15 11:01:00 - [30] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Nexus1972 All that will happen is griefers will then just fly around blowing up jetcans, which to be honest would be griefing in its purest form because it benefits no-one. Can flipping, baiting and even suiciding have their benefits. Blowing up someone's jet can full of ore has exactly the same benefit as blowing up their ship. No Jetcans dont drop loot when blown up :-) --------------------- Pat Sharpe's Potato Rodeo

Re'taka Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2008.08.15 11:32:00 - [31] Originally by: Arana Tellen Originally by: Re'taka nope cant fliping isnt an exploit, and it is fun tbh, though i have more fun putting a remote shield rep on my amarr frig and useing it on nubs who think im attacking with a blue laser, and shoot back that would be newbie griefing, get out there and find some real targets pilot! I was board at the time, plus i got a few older players too, they just didnt pay attation i guess, best time was locking and repping a hulk, he ran and left 5 harvester drones behind, was a nice payday.
Korizan Oort Cloud Industries Ultionis Quietus	Posted - 2008.08.15 12:42:00 - [32] Can flipping is NOT an exploit. But If you leave the can open on your screen they can't flip it without you knowing it. But also always watch overview and local. now if they do flip your can or just don't leave you alone. Well keep in mind when they steal from you they are flagged to your ENTIRE CORP (if your not in a NPC corp that is) So if you take it back now his corp has you flagged. BUT if you just kill him his corp can do nothing about it. So pick your battles and choose wisely in your actions. Sometimes it is not worth it some it is.
Slade Trillgon Siorai Iontach	Posted - 2008.08.15 12:50:00 - [33] Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 15/08/2008 12:52:10 Originally by: Korizan If you leave the can open on your screen they can't flip it without you knowing it. But also always watch overview and local. Also if you name it you will then see a name change if the flipper does not do his job thoroughly. Originally by: Korizan So if you take it back now his corp has you flagged. BUT if you just kill him his corp can do nothing about it. Exactly. Never take the ore back. Count it as a loss and learn from the experiance. Or call your corp mates and have some fun then retrieve the ore. Slade DesuSigs
Rezaa Pandemonium Technologies	Posted - 2008.08.15 14:11:00 - [34] Can flipping may not be an exploit. But you have to watch what you do in newb systems now a days. I got accused of can baiting in a noob system even though I didnÆt can bait at all. What I did was OLD trick. What you do it go to a station undock. Jet a can and rename it ôYOUö. Then lock the can and wait for your prey to undock. (something that will give good loot/salvage) When that nice and juicy BS undocks target him then bump him and start orbiting him. THEN start scrambling the can that you renamed ôyouö. Then sit back and watch the LOLZ. Because they normally get confused and flip out that you are actually attacking them. So they fire on you and get popped by concord. Wait for concord to pop em and collect your LOOT. LOL. CLEARLY this is not can baiting. ItÆs more like NOOB baiting. LOL
Veritech knight	Posted - 2008.08.15 19:41:00 - [35] LOL rezaa
Tarminic 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.08.15 19:49:00 - [36] Originally by: Rezaa Can flipping may not be an exploit. But you have to watch what you do in newb systems now a days. I got accused of can baiting in a noob system even though I didnÆt can bait at all. What I did was OLD trick. What you do it go to a station undock. Jet a can and rename it ôYOUö. Then lock the can and wait for your prey to undock. (something that will give good loot/salvage) When that nice and juicy BS undocks target him then bump him and start orbiting him. THEN start scrambling the can that you renamed ôyouö. Then sit back and watch the LOLZ. Because they normally get confused and flip out that you are actually attacking them. So they fire on you and get popped by concord. Wait for concord to pop em and collect your LOOT. LOL. CLEARLY this is not can baiting. ItÆs more like NOOB baiting. LOL I'm pretty sure this is also considered an exploit, so I would avoid doing that in the future. ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3)
Rhatar Khurin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.15 19:50:00 - [37] Yer, that's even worse than can baiting and can cause peeps to get banned. There's been a ruling on it some times ago.
Ackuula	Posted - 2008.08.15 23:01:00 - [38] Edited by: Ackuula on 15/08/2008 23:01:51 Load up a BS with a few mining lasers, proceed to shoot rocks until local flipper comes around. Web, scramble, and NOS his ship and then let your drones slowly slice him into little pirate pieces. Loot wreckage, listen to said pirate whine in local and call you names because you won't go for a rematch (aka him in a much larger ship with 2-3 of his friends who finally responded to his crying in corp chat), rinse repeat. Not at exploit, an opportunity for fun!
Luzz Bightyear Caldari The PeacekeeperZ	Posted - 2008.08.15 23:17:00 - [39] Rezaa you bad, bad man. ------------------ DO WANT (I know it's a miner and not a gun, I'm lazy )
Biolaja Tista Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2008.08.15 23:18:00 - [40] Leave a can in any asteroid belt and call it "Veldspar". When someone actually starts mining it, you know they are a macro-miner and you can petition them. _________________

GallenteCitizen20080615 Gallente Federation War News	Posted - 2008.08.15 23:31:00 - [41] why bait them ... why dont you just steal it =P you annoy them and make a profit Quote: down near the station bio mass plant you can buy burgers that are 5% pork and 95% CRAP
Faife Minmatar Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2008.08.15 23:39:00 - [42] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Originally by: Tortun Nahme you are clearly misunderstanding how can flipping works, but no it is not an exploit nor is it banned in starter systems can BAITING is banned in starter systems I plead the 5th! I have never can baited in a starter system! yeah, "5th pleading" fail there - -
Rhatar Khurin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.15 23:44:00 - [43] Originally by: Biolaja Tista Leave a can in any asteroid belt and call it "Veldspar". When someone actually starts mining it, you know they are a macro-miner and you can petition them. Er.. was that a joke?
Locke DieDrake Human Information Virus	Posted - 2008.08.15 23:48:00 - [44] Originally by: Biolaja Tista Leave a can in any asteroid belt and call it "Veldspar". When someone actually starts mining it, you know they are a macro-miner and you can petition them. Unless they are in a Dread and named Chirbba. ______________________________________________ Goon FC(08/12/06):"its a trap" "that thing is fully operational"
Rezaa Pandemonium Technologies	Posted - 2008.08.16 04:29:00 - [45] Originally by: Luzz Bightyear Rezaa you bad, bad man. I'M not a bad man.......................Once you get to know me LOLZ I just like having fun!! Granted its at anothers expence LOLZ
Rezaa Pandemonium Technologies	Posted - 2008.08.16 04:34:00 - [46] Originally by: Rhatar Khurin Yer, that's even worse than can baiting and can cause peeps to get banned. There's been a ruling on it some times ago. Bull crap its a legit tactic. Post a link to said "rulling" or STFU
Krows Caldari Resource Reallocators Incorporated	Posted - 2008.08.16 09:02:00 - [47] Originally by: Ackuula Edited by: Ackuula on 15/08/2008 23:01:51 Load up a BS with a few mining lasers, proceed to shoot rocks until local flipper comes around. Web, scramble, and NOS his ship and then let your drones slowly slice him into little pirate pieces. Loot wreckage, listen to said pirate whine in local and call you names because you won't go for a rematch (aka him in a much larger ship with 2-3 of his friends who finally responded to his crying in corp chat), rinse repeat. Not at exploit, an opportunity for fun! God that's adorable. I relish the opportunity to attack a mining battleship. I think I have a rokh killmail laying around from when I was still flying a wolf. Just because you found a stupid can flipper doesn't mean he wasn't flipping an equally stupid miner (you).
FarosWarrior Amarr Mission Mining Corp Utterly Harmless	Posted - 2008.08.16 11:41:00 - [48] Originally by: Locke DieDrake Originally by: Biolaja Tista Leave a can in any asteroid belt and call it "Veldspar". When someone actually starts mining it, you know they are a macro-miner and you can petition them. Unless they are in a Dread and named Chirbba. 1: LOL and 2: you cant mine cans... and macros arent stupid anymore... piwating isnt allowed in our corp but macros arent people, we see them as npcs so valid targets but they no pick from my cans anymore


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