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CCP Navigator C C P C C P Alliance 1028	Posted - 2012.03.22 14:43:00 - [1] - Quote Team Five 0 are working on a two-stage project: refactoring and rewriting the code within the current design, so that it is actually manageable, and then redesign most of the systems involved including criminal timers, logoff mechanics, killmails and security status so that they are simpler and better. We are still working on the design for the improved version, and it wonGÇÖt start development for a few months yet, but highlights include simpler logoff timers, a simpler three-stage criminal flagging system with built-in safeties and less frustration for players, a reworked sec status system with a -5 cap for people whoGÇÖre only somewhat bad, and (eventually, sometime in the future) better battle reporting and way more API data for kills. We will provide more details in the coming weeks and months through Dev Blogs . CCP Navigator -Community Manager

Ampoliros Aperture Harmonics K162 12	Posted - 2012.03.22 14:49:00 - [2] - Quote god bless whomever asked greyscale to stop clicking his thing
Josefius 13th Tribe of Kobol Expeditionary 49	Posted - 2012.03.22 14:51:00 - [3] - Quote Ampoliros wrote: god bless whomever asked greyscale to stop clicking his thing We were talking about it over on IRC in #eve-dev, maybe a developer saw and did something :)
HeavensGuard The Rapscallions 1	Posted - 2012.03.22 14:54:00 - [4] - Quote did i understand it right, if i kill someone in low sec i go strait to -5 sec stat ? if so that sucks, i make my isk from doing incursions and obviously killing npcs gets boring after awhile, so i go to lowsec every now and then just to find and kill someone, then go back to incursions, so if i go to -5 everytime is gonna get really annoying xD You think you die and everything will be sugar and rainbows ?
Bloodpetal Mimidae Risk Solutions 514	Posted - 2012.03.22 15:01:00 - [5] - Quote CCP Navigator wrote: We are still working on the design for the improved version, and it wonGÇÖt start development for a few months yet, but highlights include simpler logoff timers, a simpler three-stage criminal flagging system with built-in safeties and less frustration for players, a reworked sec status system with a -5 cap for people whoGÇÖre only somewhat bad, and (eventually, sometime in the future) better battle reporting and way more API data for kills. We will provide more details in the coming weeks and months through Dev Blogs . Bad to the bone! -5 Cap sounds interesting, and I can sympathize with it - but I think the bigger issue is the amount of sec status loss for PVP in Low Sec so that we take less damaging sec hits for a huge fight. Will that be addressed so a 10-15 man pirate fight doesn't send you straight to -5 for all the pew pew going back and forth. Then followed by a pain in the ass sec grind. I think the other big issues are neutral logistics and neutral ganglink boosters in high sec that screw with pilots being able to target those ships first, rather than the lameness of what is neutral assistance in high sec. Will those be addressed in Crime watch better? I am really super excited about the new crime watch as a low sec pilot that wants to ride that fuzzy grey line between the law and the grime. And all my corp mates love it too, but they get so frustrated with the sec status recoverage to keep being able to enter high sec, and all of this can be easily fixed by just reducing the amount of sec damage for attacking another player, and probably for how much sec hit you take. A quick thought, I know the current formula for sec loss for crimes goes up and down based on a formula for the sec status of the system, and the sec status of the people involved. I think this should probably be a bit more extreme for low and high sec than it currently is. Low sec fighting should take a considerably less sec loss for aggression and combat kill (or just throw those out as they are, because really they inhibit big fights in low sec). Low Sec fights should barely scrape away at your sec status, while high sec ganks should drop it in big chunks 10+ times more quickly. Meanwhile, if you accentuate the sec status loss based on sec status, which is already there. By the time pilots reach -2.5 and are shooting at each other as both are -2.5 they should both barely take sec loss for shooting, letting them open fire with little concerns about their sec loss. Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting
Kimo Khan 0	Posted - 2012.03.22 15:13:00 - [6] - Quote HeavensGuard wrote: did i understand it right, if i kill someone in low sec i go strait to -5 sec stat ? if so that sucks, i make my isk from doing incursions and obviously killing npcs gets boring after awhile, so i go to lowsec every now and then just to find and kill someone, then go back to incursions, so if i go to -5 everytime is gonna get really annoying xD I read that as CAP -5 instead of CAP-10. You would lose sec status same as before but CAP at -5 just like gain is CAP at +5 unless you really work at it. You could go lower than -5 if you did missions and higher than 5 if you did missions, but rat kills and player kills cap is 5 and -5 respectively. I think that is fair so that it won't take much for pirates to get back in to high sec if they wardec a high sec corp.
Bloodpetal Mimidae Risk Solutions 515	Posted - 2012.03.22 15:22:00 - [7] - Quote Kimo Khan wrote: I read that as CAP -5 instead of CAP-10. You would lose sec status same as before but CAP at -5 just like gain is CAP at +5 unless you really work at it. You could go lower than -5 if you did missions and higher than 5 if you did missions, but rat kills and player kills cap is 5 and -5 respectively. I think that is fair so that it won't take much for pirates to get back in to high sec if they wardec a high sec corp. "-5 cap for people whoGÇÖre only somewhat bad, " There will be -10, from what I'm reading - but it will require you to kill pods and capsules, or that kind of thing, not just shooting ships - which will cap you out at -5. Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting
Anne Sapyx The Scope Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.03.22 15:27:00 - [8] - Quote we must rewrite our killboards? First YaKB 'Public Demo'
Bloodpetal Mimidae Risk Solutions 515	Posted - 2012.03.22 15:36:00 - [9] - Quote More notes are taken here by another... https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=84723&find=unread Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting
HeavensGuard The Rapscallions 1	Posted - 2012.03.22 15:44:00 - [10] - Quote ah i get it now, thanks Blood, Kimo You think you die and everything will be sugar and rainbows ?
Klandi Consortium of stella Technologies 50	Posted - 2012.03.22 15:58:00 - [11] - Quote I would love there to be an insta-death feature in Crimewatch that immediately throws you back to your clone-station - leaving the ship you were in floating in space.... I am aware of my own ignorance and have checked my emotional quotient - thanks for asking
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux 1111	Posted - 2012.03.22 16:52:00 - [12] - Quote My only comments: - Greyscale is wrong: Flashy Flashy pirates are dangerous in high sec or not. Please bring back Flashy. - The changes to RR might make it so that its impossible for logistics ships to deagress (ever). That's stupid, don't do it. - It sounds like flying through high sec as a pirate is going to be Instant Doom From The Laser Of Doom. Don't do that - the current mechanics let you take the risky path and sneak ships of varying size through high sec. - Killmails are stupid and encourage KM whoring over following the objective. - If simple "Suspect" gives everyone aggression against me in high sec, its almost like being flashy but better because you don't get Instant Rayed of Doom'ed. Consider letting -10 pilots into high sec without Concord/faction police intervention and just letting them be flagged to players. -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Anne Sapyx The Scope Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.03.22 17:03:00 - [13] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: - Killmails are stupid and encourage KM whoring over following the objective. My objective is killmail whoring :D First YaKB 'Public Demo'
Zowie Powers Hole in the wall 54	Posted - 2012.03.22 17:21:00 - [14] - Quote 0.0, the magical place where you can only gain sec status. Let's hope that twisted mechanic dies the death it deserves.

CCP Greyscale C C P C C P Alliance 895	Posted - 2012.03.22 18:36:00 - [15] - Quote Ampoliros wrote: god bless whomever asked greyscale to stop clicking his thing

Willl Adama Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 157	Posted - 2012.03.22 20:09:00 - [16] - Quote Sounds great guys! Check out GARMONATION 9 right now! Check out our site for PVP videos, guides and audio commentaries: www.EVEisEASY.com
Udonor Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 5	Posted - 2012.03.22 20:26:00 - [17] - Quote Yeah cap of -5 doesn't sound like you go instantly to -5 for everything. In fact it sounds like killing combat ships will be LESS drop in security status in low sec -- but pod killing and maybe killing unarmed freighter might cost you more security drop....plus open up that below -5 hole. But unless the grind for security status is harder...I cannot see that is reduces hardcore bad pirates (podders, griefers, cargo gankers). LOL the pros know how to get back to 0 from -10 in just a few hours. Maybe its just CCP way to lure more people into small fleet rumbles in low sec. That might be good if everyone added was afraid of -10. But podding danger from bad pirate vultures will still be big brake on small fleet battles. I suppose that small fleets might be encouraged if just being in small fleet gives you that CAP -5 immunity and reduced sec status loss versus lone wolf status leaves you open to higher rate security loss.
Udonor Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 5	Posted - 2012.03.22 20:28:00 - [18] - Quote But my REAL question is: * If CCP wants to encourage small fleet battles in lo sec -- how do they keep that incentive from turning into a ticket to more lame 24x7 gate and station camps? * I am all for small fleet battles in belts or around moons or the middle of nowhere or something -- but long lived gate camps really interfere with use of whole constellations of systems for people not into the small fleet thing. Actually running into short lived gate camps is sort of fun. Its the 24x7 thing at a given gate that is a type of griefing or interference in play. Maybe gate guns or CONCORD should slowly take notice based on % of time ships are camp at gate and number of kills. Obviously shooting wardec targets would not count, only shooting enough neutral parties.
Lemming Alpha1dash1 Lemmings Online 4	Posted - 2012.03.22 20:31:00 - [19] - Quote There was an issue with parsing this post's BBCode
Ager Agemo X-Factor Industries Synthetic Existence 46	Posted - 2012.03.22 21:13:00 - [20] - Quote from what i have seem this actually looks cool O,o basically it makes killing in high sec legal, but once you kill someone you are FFA target to everyone and they wont receive a penalty for killing you. imagine the posibilities - in the first 10 minutes, jita local would be cut in half and everyone would be a criminal.
Ms Twitch Skunkwerx Manufacturing Pan Galactic Federation 8	Posted - 2012.03.22 21:39:00 - [21] - Quote I personally see this as potentially dumbing the game further, yes the system is broken, not badly in how it currently works, but it seems how it was originally implemented as it's buggy as hell.
God's Apples Space Boats 'N Hoes 3	Posted - 2012.03.22 23:17:00 - [22] - Quote Why not just make rats in low sec give you more sec gain so you can go from -10 to over -2 faster? Also what if once you GCC all GCC's you make in your 15 minute timer that's not on a station or a gate don't lower your sec status further? This would make station and gate campers go to -10 still, but solo and small gangs that engage at a planet or a belt only lose sec for the initial GGC so they would only lose about 0.2 - 0.5 sec for the whole engagement.
Mara Rinn Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium 1067	Posted - 2012.03.23 00:36:00 - [23] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: My only comments: - Greyscale is wrong: Flashy Flashy pirates are dangerous in high sec or not. Please bring back Flashy. - The changes to RR might make it so that its impossible for logistics ships to deagress (ever). That's stupid, don't do it. - It sounds like flying through high sec as a pirate is going to be Instant Doom From The Laser Of Doom. Don't do that - the current mechanics let you take the risky path and sneak ships of varying size through high sec. - Killmails are stupid and encourage KM whoring over following the objective. - If simple "Suspect" gives everyone aggression against me in high sec, its almost like being flashy but better because you don't get Instant Rayed of Doom'ed. Consider letting -10 pilots into high sec without Concord/faction police intervention and just letting them be flagged to players. I suspect that allowing anyone under -5 to be a target of opportunity (i.e: "suspect" status automatically) will mean that CONCORD doesn't have to be more efficient. If the CONCORD or local police tackle frigate can arrive quickly, it doesn't matter how long it takes the CONCORD battleships to arrive. Why you would want -10s to suffer no penalty when flying through hisec is obvious (you are -10), but that doesn't mean it is a good idea for the game as a whole. Under the new system, -10 indicates a bad, bad person who has no right being in civilized space flying alongside civilized people! Changes to RR would require suspect status to come in two flavours: one is the aggressor, the other is merely an accomplice. There could be a "aggressor" marker. Your suspect timer and "aggressor" flag will be set when you directly aggress someone. When you assist any suspect who has the "aggressor" flag, your suspect timer will be set but your aggressor flag will not be set. Thus if I am repping someone who is repping your war target, I am flagged as a suspect by my timer being set, but my "aggressor" flag is not set. When your immediate aggressor deaggresses, he will lose the "aggressor" flag too. Thus the aggression timers on the chain-RR logis and the tracking link guy will expire normally. At the expiry of the suspect timer, both the timer and the "aggressor" flag are cleared. This same system could be used for criminal, war target and militia target flagging: a timer with accompanying "culprit" or "aggressor" flag. So say someone steals from your can and my friend and I start chain repping repping her. She is "suspect" with the "culprit" flag. The two logis gain the "suspect" timer due to aiding someone who has the culprit flag set. You do not shoot back. Eventually the culprit's timer runs out, the culprit flag is cleared. Then the suspect timers on the two logis run down, and everyone can safely proceed through the star gate. And CCP Greyscale, I am one of the guilty parties: I couldn't hear the conversation over the clicking of your lanyard clip or whatever it was. Sorry for making a big thing of it: I really enjoyed your presentation, you are an great public speaker, but the CLICK noise from CLICK the lanyaCLICK distracted froCLICK the converatioCLICK. Hold your hands together Monty Burns style next time, NO FROBBING :) Would watch this presentation again. Also, any chance of hires version of the crime watch chart?
Rajji Jones Southern Cross Trilogy Flying Dangerous 1	Posted - 2012.03.23 00:44:00 - [24] - Quote While you're at it, how about killmails for self-destructs in combat?
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux 1116	Posted - 2012.03.23 03:37:00 - [25] - Quote Mara Rinn wrote: Why you would want -10s to suffer no penalty when flying through hisec is obvious (you are -10), but that doesn't mean it is a good idea for the game as a whole. Under the new system, -10 indicates a bad, bad person who has no right being in civilized space flying alongside civilized people! I admit I lol'ed pretty hard at this. On the flip side, now that I've read Greyscale's clarification regarding "Suspect" status, I think they should just delete the Eve Online source tree and turn themselves into the local insane asylum. They've obviously lost their ***** minds. Quote:** Changes to RR would require suspect status to come in two flavours ... At the expiry of the suspect timer, both the timer and the "aggressor" flag are cleared. Greyscale clarified this in the other thread - he goofed in the presentation. You inherit the timer of the person you're assisting. You'll both end up deagressed simultaneously. -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Arctic Monkey Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance 6	Posted - 2012.03.23 03:54:00 - [26] - Quote Will there be any love for logistics pilots on killmails? Something like negative damage would be simple, and allow a much more complete picture of a fight.
Mara Rinn Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium 1069	Posted - 2012.03.23 04:40:00 - [27] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: On the flip side, now that I've read Greyscale's clarification regarding "Suspect" status, I think they should just delete the Eve Online source tree and turn themselves into the local insane asylum. They've obviously lost their ******* minds Well, I prefer to look at is as Greyscale only having communicated half an idea, there was a troubling part during the presentation where Greyscale said something along the lines of, "we skipped that part because it looks too hard". Which made me panic at the time because the hard part is usually the part that matters.
Di Mulle 45	Posted - 2012.03.23 08:08:00 - [28] - Quote I kind of turned my attention to the thing which is unrelated to crimewatch, but was asked and answered during Q and A. Corp roles. They said it is an obscure code they are afraid to touch, to think about it even. Although there is a consensus it needs to be redone. Maybe it is hard. But I am hearing and reading this response for what, 4 years ? Don't you guys at CCP think it became a very poor excuse by now ? Or you still hope the problem magically goes away ? CCP is unable to implement simpliest things. Like settting to hide signatures. So they sweep it under a rug . Children do that in their pre-shool years, CCP does it being adults. Probably because it is fearless enough.
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy Tactical Narcotics Team 107	Posted - 2012.03.23 13:21:00 - [29] - Quote I completely missed this, however I guess as said there will be devblogs... Crimewatch is obviously a big system controlling many things. In my opinion there are 3 important factors: - Change security loss/gain mechanics to promote pvp - Change aggro mechanics and include remote assistance - Change Bounties and sentry mechanics Make security stat hits depending on the sec status of the system Make security stat hits smaller to not punish spare time pirates Make it harder to gain security status while ratting/missioning for isk Maybe add a limited feature to purchase sec status perhaps upto -2.0 for isk/lp? Have station/gateguns in lowsec to escalate dps every 15 seconds in 3-5 stages (0->1000->2500->5000->10000) Make sure ships (logistics) gets aggro for remote assisting to not dock up Make aggro mechanics longer to reflect the EHP on Eve ships today (docking games are too easy these days) Have bounties connected to kill-rights instead of security status Having a bounty should MEAN something - extra cost on repairs? insurance? clone contracts? market fee? Have bounties connected to the ship of the pirate paying out partial bounty depending on shiptype Make sure bounties don't keep people away from pvp'ing Pinky
Brom MkLeith Epsilon Inc STORM. 14	Posted - 2012.03.23 14:25:00 - [30] - Quote Di Mulle wrote: I kind of turned my attention to the thing which is unrelated to crimewatch, but was asked and answered during Q and A. Corp roles. They said it is an obscure code they are afraid to touch, to think about it even. Although there is a consensus it needs to be redone. Maybe it is hard. But I am hearing and reading this response for what, 4 years ? Don't you guys at CCP think it became a very poor excuse by now ? Or you still hope the problem magically goes away ? Amen. I still have a hard time believing that the TARGET of aggression gets an aggression timer. Even if they don't shoot back, rep or jam, they get the same aggro timer as a thief.
Raimo Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 45	Posted - 2012.03.25 14:11:00 - [31] - Quote If what I heard is correct (lowsec has -5 cap for PVP sec repercussions, all hisec accessible in that state, only podkills can make one -10, shooting pirates and tags to fix sec) this will be amazing and will really resurrect this game!
Burseg Sardaukar Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 103	Posted - 2012.03.26 02:41:00 - [32] - Quote Fully Supported, can't wait for: -Flipping cans = Suspect to everyone -Negative status limit at -5 for regular killing, and you don't get chased in hisec. (Clarification needed as to whether can flipping is part of that, since you go "suspect") -Podding/Suicide ganking is the only way to go -10 (hell yes. wayyy more fun for lowsec guys). -Removal of concord "spawns" in place of a ray, provided that ray isn't used to kill people -10 as soon as they enter into a system. -Docking aggro timer on RR'ing someone that is aggressed. -Selling tags for Sec. Esp if they are the "Shadow" variety. Needs to be added: -RR'ing -10 guys that aren't currently GCC in lowsec isn't a big deal. -RR'ing people at war flags you as suspect to everyone -Someone in this thread had a good idea that, since a character is flagged as shoot-able by everyone anyway, the -10 guys should be able to travel through hisec, being flagged "suspect" the whole time and let players enforce the "law." Heavy thought required: -Killing -10 guys to increase sec. (Should be tied to value of ship destroyed.... otherwise this WILL be exploited) Station crap outside Dodixie will finally stop, and SOOOO many more ships will die. I am very excited. We have a blog, it is terrible. How to fix Bounty Hunting
Tanaka Sekigahara United Space Marine Corp 61	Posted - 2012.03.28 09:50:00 - [33] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: My only comments: - Greyscale is wrong: Flashy Flashy pirates are dangerous in high sec or not. Please bring back Flashy. - The changes to RR might make it so that its impossible for logistics ships to deagress (ever). That's stupid, don't do it. - It sounds like flying through high sec as a pirate is going to be Instant Doom From The Laser Of Doom. Don't do that - the current mechanics let you take the risky path and sneak ships of varying size through high sec. - Killmails are stupid and encourage KM whoring over following the objective. - If simple "Suspect" gives everyone aggression against me in high sec, its almost like being flashy but better because you don't get Instant Rayed of Doom'ed. Consider letting -10 pilots into high sec without Concord/faction police intervention and just letting them be flagged to players. -Liang Kinda like saying the British Navy should have just let Captain Kidd dock in Kingston, Jamaica, and let the locals deal with him. That's no way to run an empire, mate.
Tairon Usaro The X-Trading Company RAZOR Alliance 4	Posted - 2012.03.28 11:43:00 - [34] - Quote The round table on Crimewatch sort of scared me. I understand that all of the new crimewatch 2.0 is not finalized and totally under discussion, but still there were a few option layed out be Greyscale, that are simply absolute non-options to my eyes. Example ? Suspect being not able to shoot back once he is engaged in high-sec. WTF ?!? The fact, that Greyscale put that on the list of options, scared me to death, really ! I know its tough for you guys to prepare the Round Table discussion in the right way. If you bully a fullfletched concept through this session, then you dont get the feedback, you want and we get the feeling, you are not listening to our ideas. But if you present only the carcase of a concept and leave everything open for discussion, we get the impression, you dont know, what you are talking about and that it will endup in a fu**-up of a core game mechanic (it wouldnt be a precedence, right ? ;-) ) For this specific session, it would have been much better if you put a little more details on the table on issues with current crimewatch and then just have a pure "dev asks community specific questions about the flagging they like to have" (inverse Q&A) and no disclosure of dev ideas at all, but a promise of a summary of all ideas in a soon(tm) to be published dev blog presenting your conclusion out of this round table. It was simply to early and raw for the standard Q&A (community asks, dev answers)

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