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Evelgrivion
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.08.15 20:38:00 -
[1]
Whenever people discuss the various vessels of the Jove Empire, many issues inevitably crop up when trying to figure out how to add them to the game. They should have cool abilities, but Will they be balanced? Should people get them from missions, cosmos, or exploration? How do you stop people from farming them? What mechanics do you add for distribution? Do you use a lottery? How do you avoid random whining and accusations of bias? The list goes on and on.
The solution is simple. CCP should give Jove ships to whoever they decide to give them to, for whatever reason.
Possible reasons could include doing something unique amongst the community, in game, something that enhances the experience of playing the game, or something that makes people at CCP laugh. In the end, its completely up to them.
We've all wanted Jove ships to be among the hands of the worthy without cheapening them to an extraordinary degree. I don't think there is a single way to get them out there better than deliberate, outright favoritism with no attempts at pretense.
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Masu'di
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2008.08.15 20:40:00 -
[2]
i like the game show ideas, as was discussed. something like mallet's mallet, with a big pink nerf bat.
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Morgan Brykein
Gallente New Eden Worker's Union
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Posted - 2008.08.15 20:53:00 -
[3]
Are there Jove ships even in the game?
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Internet Knight
The Knighthawks
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Posted - 2008.08.15 20:56:00 -
[4]
Balanced? Absolutely not... except against other Jove ships. Get them from missions? Only from Sisters of EVE. COSMOS? No. Exploration? Only from the regions that *had* stargates to the Jove Empire. Lottery? Absolutely ****ing not. Avoid random whining and accusations of bias by making them non-random.
Solution? Give me the ships and I will determine who deserves the ships. You'll get one just for being awesome of course. And I will get one because I'm awesome too. And Atropos would get one because he's better than PrismX.
---
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Evelgrivion
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.08.15 20:59:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Morgan Brykein Are there Jove ships even in the game?
Yes, there are several.
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Morgan Brykein
Gallente New Eden Worker's Union
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Posted - 2008.08.15 21:07:00 -
[6]
It'd be cool if the industrial ship didn't look like a stereotypical flying saucer.
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Xindi Kraid
Kraid Salvaging
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Posted - 2008.08.15 21:36:00 -
[7]
I think they should open up Jove space and let us do missions for them. You can also then buy Jove ship BPOs but the prints themsleves will b expensive and they will have high material requirements and long production times and thus be more expensive than other ships in addition to requiring Jove racial ship skills. -So says Xindi Kraid
Caveat Emptor Caveat Venditor CAVEAT |
Yamato Gasaraki
Morpheus industries
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Posted - 2008.08.15 21:44:00 -
[8]
I'd say give those Ship to everyone free of charge.
But don't give anyone the Skills to them
Jokes aside, People acting extraordinary and becoming a local VIP should and will be pimped with such (flying once through each System, collecting one of each available Item, etc).
Someone starts whining and accuses CCP of bias? Purge 'em with Fire! ---- Become one with the Void, leave behind your earthen Fears, Desires, Hopes. Don't let it fill you out, consume your Soul, your very being, making you dull. |
Xindi Kraid
Kraid Salvaging
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Posted - 2008.08.15 21:47:00 -
[9]
Jove Frigate is the next gold magnate -So says Xindi Kraid
Caveat Emptor Caveat Venditor CAVEAT |
Grarr Dexx
Amarr Avenging United
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Posted - 2008.08.15 21:51:00 -
[10]
No. Jove is an unreachable race for now, and all of their ships are so technologically advanced it would be impossible to add them as lore would make them all uberoverpowered ships.
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Xindi Kraid
Kraid Salvaging
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Posted - 2008.08.15 21:53:00 -
[11]
Then make them uberexpensive.
Do you want one Jove BS or a flotilla of Ravens? -So says Xindi Kraid
Caveat Emptor Caveat Venditor CAVEAT |
Koyama Ise
Caldari Equestrian Knight Order of Lolicon
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Posted - 2008.08.16 03:02:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Koyama Ise on 16/08/2008 03:02:02 Currently the Jove Battleships can tank several dreads, this apparently was tested on SiSi a long time ago and seeing you're a BoB member you'd probably support the idea as your corp/Alliance would somehow end up with the largest number of them and win EVE. So no go back to whining how cyno-jammers are overpowered and should be nerfed. ----- Cause it can't be quoted enough.
Originally by: Damned Force Something like: Nanoships need a nerf but only the 10km/s+ ships. Nano HACs to slowboating Battleships wil be ****ed by this nerf.
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Re'taka
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2008.08.16 03:55:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Koyama Ise Edited by: Koyama Ise on 16/08/2008 03:02:02 Currently the Jove Battleships can tank several dreads, this apparently was tested on SiSi a long time ago and seeing you're a BoB member you'd probably support the idea as your corp/Alliance would somehow end up with the largest number of them and win EVE. So no go back to whining how cyno-jammers are overpowered and should be nerfed.
you would be amazed how many BS's can tank dreads, kind of because the dreads cant really track them...
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Evelgrivion
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.08.16 05:40:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Koyama Ise Edited by: Koyama Ise on 16/08/2008 03:02:02 Currently the Jove Battleships can tank several dreads, this apparently was tested on SiSi a long time ago and seeing you're a BoB member you'd probably support the idea as your corp/Alliance would somehow end up with the largest number of them and win EVE. So no go back to whining how cyno-jammers are overpowered and should be nerfed.
If you looked at the links I posted for those Jove ships, you'd note that their resists really aren't any better than other ships. The only reason those ships had such insane power on Singularity was the fact that the devs in them had h4x invulnerability fields with 99% resists.
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Batolemaeus
Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.08.16 06:51:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Batolemaeus on 16/08/2008 06:52:46 I think random people could be abducted by ali..err, jovians and converted. Would be funny.
I do not agree on the "because they feel so" part. It should be completely random.
You could also scatter some hints and items around the galaxy, and whoever solves the puzzle, has the option to turn jove. If anyone remembers the jedi in early swg times, something like that would be funny.
Still, it would also be horribly unbalanced. What kind of ewar should jove have? What kind of wepaonry? What kind of tanking and fighting style? I could think of passively regenerating armortankers that do not use reppers but resistances, plates, and passive repair enhancers. Ships that do not have any shields and just a tiny bit of hull. Using mainly laser style plasma weaponry and some kind of freezeray as ewar..
//edit: Koyama Ise, you need your head examined
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Chris Vattic
Amarr Paxton Industries Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2008.08.16 10:36:00 -
[16]
Actually, the jovian vessels are inferior to most if not all the ships in their class ( Eidolon battleship aside with it's 8 / 8 / 8 layout, but it doesn't have any bonuses to anything ). If you look at the stats they have low number of HPs ( the HP buff apparently didn't make it to the Jove land ), standard resistances and only a little higher CPU and PG on some ships. 1 vs 1 they would get miserably owned.
The reason why we haven't been able to shoot any of those babies down are the GM modules, shield hardeners that are so intense you can't see the ship through the glow, massive speed modules, nearly impenetratable armor hardeners etc. That is the source of Jove power.
Now that that's out of the way, I really wouldn't want to see jovian ships become some expensive toys people use to increase their ePeen. The Jove add mysteriousness to the game, they are the people you look up to in humility. Something to take away the everyday routine, something that gives your imagination some work.
Please CCP, don't take our aliens away --
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Chris Vattic
Amarr Paxton Industries Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2008.08.16 10:56:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Batolemaeus Still, it would also be horribly unbalanced. What kind of ewar should jove have? What kind of wepaonry? What kind of tanking and fighting style? I could think of passively regenerating armortankers that do not use reppers but resistances, plates, and passive repair enhancers. Ships that do not have any shields and just a tiny bit of hull. Using mainly laser style plasma weaponry and some kind of freezeray as ewar..
Information is their most valuable asset, they fight their battles knowing what tacticts the opponent will use, their menouvers, ships, who are the commanders and so on. They know how the battle will be faught even before the data reaches the high ranks on the other side.
The backstory suggest Jove use different methods for dealing the opponent, knowing exactly what they will encounter on the battlesfield they use the tactics that work the best against those specific ships. During the battle of Vak'Atioth fast and agile frigates outrun the slow Amarrian vessels while the mothership literally cut them in half. The cannons used were designed specifically for that battle.
The whole Amarrian fleet was wiped out, but only one third of the Jove forces met their end. No one has even tried to encounter them again.
Jovians use mainly laser technology, although the other classes are undoubtedly highly advanced as well. During the few occasions Jovian ships have been seen in space they have all used shield tanks as far as I know. As for electronic warfare, I dunno. Don't remember anything about that.
Hope this is of some use. --
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr Avenging United
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Posted - 2008.08.17 11:52:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Xindi Kraid Then make them uberexpensive.
Do you want one Jove BS or a flotilla of Ravens?
Like how they did with titans?
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Xindi Kraid
Kraid Salvaging
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Posted - 2008.08.17 12:00:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Koyama Ise Edited by: Koyama Ise on 16/08/2008 03:02:02 Currently the Jove Battleships can tank several dreads, this apparently was tested on SiSi a long time ago and seeing you're a BoB member you'd probably support the idea as your corp/Alliance would somehow end up with the largest number of them and win EVE. So no go back to whining how cyno-jammers are overpowered and should be nerfed.
SiSi server is the key here.
The devs seem to like using hax on Sisi. -So says Xindi Kraid
Caveat Emptor Caveat Venditor CAVEAT |
Feyd Alsam
Gallente Avenging United Fang Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.17 15:08:00 -
[20]
The Jovians as a race haven't really been implemented yet, so any discussion of their ships I think would have to be preceeded by that.
The FAQ that's up states, "The fifth race, Jovian, is unavailable to players at this time, though players will be given the opportunity to evolve into Jovians in the future." I think it's pretty safe to assume only Jovian players will get access to Jovian tech. But with what Eve has become, it's hard to imagine this really becoming part of gameplay. Will it just be a case of uber-powerful players/alliances becoming even more so? Would they have to choose to become confined to Jovian territory? Have the Jove just become an abandoned concept, used only for backstory?
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Xindi Kraid
Kraid Salvaging
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Posted - 2008.08.17 15:15:00 -
[21]
I don;t see why.
Caldari players can train for Gallente gear Amarrs can use minmatar gear.
No reason you can't cross train to jovian -So says Xindi Kraid
Dear devs: Sign here initial here here and here |
Marcus Gideon
Gallente Excessive Force
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Posted - 2008.08.17 15:37:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Marcus Gideon on 17/08/2008 15:38:23 1) Jove = GM. Every other MMO has a particular model set aside for the GM use only. Kinda like an Agent in The Matrix. They can do anything, appear anywhere, and control the fabric of the universe.
2) Jove = uber advanced race. Eve lore says this whole thing takes place 40,000 years in the future. Humans came through the Eve Gate, and then got cut off. They plummeted into the dark ages for centuries, trying to rebuild. But the Jove came out of it substancially faster, meaning they are much MUCH more advanced that the rest of the races. In 40,000 years we've managed to make ships that look like LEGOs, and arm them with nuclear bullets. Jovians made biomechanical Pods that interface with your brain, and genetically engineered their entire race to better adapt to space travel.
Jove will probably never be playable. It would take away the mystique of their race for one thing. It would negate the "special" nature of the GM models. And their "Rookie ships" would probably have T5 guns that could one-shot a Titan.
Look at sci-fi overall. "The Ancients" , "The Vorlons" , "The Q Continuum" , etc.
Races that are VASTLY more powerful. Everyone wants to be them... but it would take all the fun out of the game.
--- Don't take my ranting personally. I may just be arguing the topic, unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word. "Players don't want Variety. They want THE BEST" |
Abrazzar
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Posted - 2008.08.17 16:55:00 -
[23]
Only 'Jove' ships I'd make available would be designs from the Society of Conscious thought. It'd be a Event mission line taking quite a while and could only be done once per character. The missions should require a wide array of skills to complete and a good amount of RL brains, testing every aspect of a Capsuleer to make sure she/he/it is worthy of such an advanced vessel.
The ships would be something like faction T2 ships, requiring all 4 racial skills to fly for one skillbonus per race and an additional times five faction bonus. They'd be cool, they'd be nifty, they'd be rare and they would not be vastly overpowered.
-------- Ideas for: Mining
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Mindseamstress
Gallente Jovian Labs Jovian Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.08.17 17:02:00 -
[24]
Introduce them to the game public now... So far, the only Jove ship in existence is locked in our corp hangar, which makes the game terribly unbalanced in our favor! Mindseamstress Chief Executive Office Jovian Labs
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Feyd Alsam
Gallente Avenging United Fang Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.17 17:26:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Feyd Alsam on 17/08/2008 17:26:19
Quote: 1) Jove = GM. Every other MMO has a particular model set aside for the GM use only. Kinda like an Agent in The Matrix. They can do anything, appear anywhere, and control the fabric of the universe.
2) Jove = uber advanced race. Eve lore says this whole thing takes place 40,000 years in the future. Humans came through the Eve Gate, and then got cut off. They plummeted into the dark ages for centuries, trying to rebuild. But the Jove came out of it substancially faster, meaning they are much MUCH more advanced that the rest of the races. In 40,000 years we've managed to make ships that look like LEGOs, and arm them with nuclear bullets. Jovians made biomechanical Pods that interface with your brain, and genetically engineered their entire race to better adapt to space travel.
Jove will probably never be playable. It would take away the mystique of their race for one thing. It would negate the "special" nature of the GM models. And their "Rookie ships" would probably have T5 guns that could one-shot a Titan.
Look at sci-fi overall. "The Ancients" , "The Vorlons" , "The Q Continuum" , etc.
Races that are VASTLY more powerful. Everyone wants to be them... but it would take all the fun out of the game.
The Jovians aren't and were never a GM race. The GMs have their own ships. A few CCP members had Jovian characters at one point, but seem to be using the normal races now.
But it is true that they fill the deific archetype at the moment, and just dropping their characters and stuff into the game would take away from the experience (for most). Maybe in the future we will see something like the general proliferation of their technology around New Eden, new ships and tech for everybody, the ability to genetically modify your clones, etc.
Quote: Introduce them to the game public now... So far, the only Jove ship in existence is locked in our corp hangar, which makes the game terribly unbalanced in our favor!
Yeah, pics or I don't believe it.
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr Avenging United
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Posted - 2008.08.17 18:05:00 -
[26]
Oh hey feyd, didn't notice you yet
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J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr Proxenetae Invicti
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Posted - 2008.08.17 19:46:00 -
[27]
The Jove should only be added when they think we're technologically equal with them - there might be better research conducted on finding them a cure.
That way they'd be balanced for what was currently in there, and wouldn't seem too bad.
But never, ever let players select Jova as their race, otherwise they can damn well allow me to change race to the Jove too.
-- These are my personal views and in no way represent the views of Proxenetae Invicti, which maintains a neutral stance stemming from the strong ethics demanded of its work. |
Yamato Gasaraki
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Posted - 2008.08.17 21:20:00 -
[28]
I have the feeling the Jove might become the Jedi from the old Star Wars MMO (before SOE ****ed it up for good). ---- Become one with the Void, leave behind your earthen Fears, Desires, Hopes. Don't let it fill you out, consume your Soul, your very being, making you dull. |
Adaera
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Posted - 2008.08.17 22:14:00 -
[29]
It might be worth mentioning here, but the chronical about the battle against the Amarr implies that the Jove use laser weaponry - just much more advanced than any the other races have. But I really don't think Jove ships should be flyable. It'd either be horribly overpowered, or require the lore to be absolutely butchered to balance them. Simple as that.
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Dominique Vasilkovsky
BFG Tech
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Posted - 2008.08.17 23:11:00 -
[30]
The stats for the Jove ships are placeholders so if they ever are realeased they will most likely not end up with those numbers.
I would love to see Jovian NPCs harass podpilots in 0.0 though. |
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