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Rhyn Taril
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Posted - 2004.06.04 04:18:00 -
[1]
The screenshots of both ship types show some very tricked out vessels.
The Battlecruiser has what appears to be 10 Cruiser level artillery guns. (it looks like 10 to each side so I assumed 10).
The Destroyer makes more sense, it looks like 8 small turrets on it.
I'm trying to figure out how to manage 10 firing guns, considering you can have a max of 8 modules fitted on the screen, but that's beside the points.
Have any dream ideas for these two intriguing ship types? Here's my two cents.
For the Battlecruisers, these things would probably push cruisers out of the way for the major PvP corps. The lower cost would be very nice. The only problem might be that they'd make people think they were in a BS without actually being in one..which can be dangerous...
As for Destroyers, these will be very important in wars, where frigates' speed can often be a deciding factor. Unfortunately, there is still no remedy for "double MWD" ships, though missile nerfing should help that.
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Meridius
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Posted - 2004.06.04 05:01:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Rhyn Taril
The screenshots of both ship types show some very tricked out vessels.
The Battlecruiser has what appears to be 10 Cruiser level artillery guns. (it looks like 10 to each side so I assumed 10).
The Destroyer makes more sense, it looks like 8 small turrets on it.
I'm trying to figure out how to manage 10 firing guns, considering you can have a max of 8 modules fitted on the screen, but that's beside the points.
Have any dream ideas for these two intriguing ship types? Here's my two cents.
For the Battlecruisers, these things would probably push cruisers out of the way for the major PvP corps. The lower cost would be very nice. The only problem might be that they'd make people think they were in a BS without actually being in one..which can be dangerous...
As for Destroyers, these will be very important in wars, where frigates' speed can often be a deciding factor. Unfortunately, there is still no remedy for "double MWD" ships, though missile nerfing should help that.
Well firstly, the apoc looks like it has 16 turrets with a full compliment on (8 on both side) so don't be decieved by the physical turret placements.
Secondly, why would being in a battlecruiser make people think your in a bs? They are not going to be battleship sized...
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C0yote
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Posted - 2004.06.04 10:07:00 -
[3]
One of the statements from the dev team recently was that they are working on a major change to the GUI.
Maybe this is to allow you to see all slots on a ship and to no longer ne limited to only 8 slots.
Looking at those screen shots really makes me want to buy a destroyer - even if they are useless in combat they look cool :)
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Man'corr
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Posted - 2004.06.04 10:21:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Man'corr on 04/06/2004 10:25:06
where did you get the battlecruiser pic plz.
found the destroyers in the shiva info page, but apparently missed the battlecruiser :(
thx. in advance :D
oh btw the minnie destroyer seems to have 7 turrets, and the amarr a full 8 turrets.
so the apoc wont be the best mining ship in shiva i guess..............(finally, at least the number of combat fittings with 8 minerIIs will decrease............)
All of above post was formulated wth 100% honesty and 100% sarcasm. Now i only need to get drunk
The 3rd turret is the Malediction is missing. Plz make as much noise as possible so that CCP gets us a remedy for that, possibly before X-Mas this year. |
Juhlah Maidan
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Posted - 2004.06.04 10:23:00 -
[5]
I don't think that destroyers will be useless in PvP at all. Quite the contrary. The main idea is that You will have a fast ship, that can hunt frigate and cruiser sized ships, while still bringing decent aremor and firepower. (Could possibly be used as "lock-down" ships too in bigger battles.)
I'm more concerned with the battlecruisers. Although I think it sounds cool with a "pocket battleship"... I mean - why not buy a battleship then? (Money/ore is seldom a subject in this game.)
I fear that the battlecruisers will fall in the same trap as todays cruisers (when it comes to PvP). Not fast/cheap enough to compete with frigates and not powerful enough to compete with battleships.
I'm just having a hard time seeing its niche.
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Sochin
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Posted - 2004.06.04 12:47:00 -
[6]
I think the Destroyers will be very fast and fairly agile, but i'm worried it was designed to counter a threat thats already been nerfed by the balance changes.
Destroyer seems to be designed as an anti-frigate ship. This makes sense if swarms of frigates presented a serious danger (as they do with cruise missiles) but by the time Shiva hits frigates will be limited to tackling and dogfighting roles. I'm not sure there will be a place for the destroyer in fleets.
Nemo me impune lacessit
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JoCool
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Posted - 2004.06.04 13:16:00 -
[7]
Edited by: JoCool on 04/06/2004 13:18:57
Hmm what about elite frigates, like bombers and so on. Didn't they plan to include them too? 
Beside that, I've seen small squads of blasterceptors doing pretty nice damage. 
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Matrix Aran
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Posted - 2004.06.04 13:55:00 -
[8]
The battlecruisers seem to me to be nice option for people, especialy people going it alone to have a decent ship that can take the hits from a battleship and live to tell the tale. In essesnce by the sound of it it will either have a large amount of battleship weapons with cruiser armor/shield or 5 or so cruiser/maybe bs weapons and bs shields and armor without the cost of a full sized battleship.
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Roba
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Posted - 2004.06.04 19:07:00 -
[9]
Dude... there were no BattleCrusier pictures.
That other picture with the 10 turret points was a Minmatar Destroyer... and if you take a good look at it (and call on memory of all the other ships in eve) you count 7 maybe 8 280mm howies on it.
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Man'corr
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Posted - 2004.06.04 19:30:00 -
[10]
well rhyn said both types of ships look good.
so i thought he had some battlecruiser screenies.
and as i said, the minnie destroyer seems to have 7 turrets max. 3 up and 3 down; which belong together. and 4 near the engine to one side only, so you need another 4 on the other side as well. extrapolates into 7 turrets.
teh amarr one has 8 on top, needs 8 down as well, unless youc ant shoot down, which i dont think.
plus i really want that battlecruiser, perfect for lvl3 agent missions, 85ks plus 2 55ks can hurt a cruiser badly................
All of above post was formulated wth 100% honesty and 100% sarcasm. Now i only need to get drunk
The 3rd turret is the Malediction is missing. Plz make as much noise as possible so that CCP gets us a remedy for that, possibly before X-Mas this year. |
Bella Verde
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Posted - 2004.06.04 23:57:00 -
[11]
Battlecruisers are going to be very useful, easier to fly in with less training than a BS, but the same hitpoints. Still need to fix regular cruisers, tho.
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Nikkoli
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Posted - 2004.06.05 02:41:00 -
[12]
I am looking at those and it looks to me like they will be able to fit more guns than the UI allows atm..... I am interested to see what cargo and drone space they have... I have a feeling the Gallente ones will become the new mining ships.
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Slithereen
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Posted - 2004.06.05 07:41:00 -
[13]
What I think about the Destroyers is that the powergrid and CPU is good either to support many small turrets, or a few low end medium ones, like quad lights, dual 150s.
A Battlecruiser or pocket battleship is sized in such a way, it can support eitehr a lot of medium weapons, or a few low end large weapons like a dual heavy pulse.
Many people has been asking these things in the Ideas forums.
I like the idea of faction ships too, like the ability to capture one, or given special BPs that you can make only one copy.
My dream for this game is there is more roleplaying with the ships. After all the ships are the true avatars of the players here. Pirates should be flying Sansha Overlord and Angel Warlord battleships, while the people fighting them get to fly a special civilian edition of a Concord battleship.
_______________________________________________
"Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies,
"Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy.
"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
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Sewell
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Posted - 2004.06.05 09:41:00 -
[14]
Well since no-one have mentioned this I will: turrets always come in pairs. That is - if you fit 2 turrets - there will be 4 guns displayed on your ship. If you have 3 turrets you will see 6, and so on.
Just look at your own ships.
So, when you see 8 guns on the Amarr destroyer - that means it has (at least) 4 turrets. So sorry - probably no 10 turret destroyers...
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Man'corr
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Posted - 2004.06.05 15:10:00 -
[15]
oh man it feels great to be ignored.................i posted the number of turrets twice.........once even with the background how i came up on that number, and yes the current UI could support those destroyers........... :P
and the first rule of EVE:
You are not your ship, it is rather part of you........(well even ccp finally caught up with that one.)
All of above post was formulated wth 100% honesty and 100% sarcasm. Now i only need to get drunk
The 3rd turret is the Malediction is missing. Plz make as much noise as possible so that CCP gets us a remedy for that, possibly before X-Mas this year. |
Cadman Weyland
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Posted - 2004.06.05 19:20:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Cadman Weyland on 05/06/2004 19:22:21
"My dream for this game is there is more roleplaying with the ships. After all the ships are the true avatars of the players here. Pirates should be flying Sansha Overlord and Angel Warlord battleships, while the people fighting them get to fly a special civilian edition of a Concord battleship."
I have to fully agree with Sliltereen (sp?) there. That would really make the game stand out. Give it another 6 months i hope to see more and more of the faction ships being flown.
Director of Empire Ops and Chief Carebear |
Gariuys
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Posted - 2004.06.05 20:10:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Bella Verde
Battlecruisers are going to be very useful, easier to fly in with less training than a BS, but the same hitpoints. Still need to fix regular cruisers, tho.
Less training then a BS, are you high on something?
They need cruiser lvl 5, which is a month training easily. ( and yes I've got it )
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Gariuys
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Posted - 2004.06.05 20:12:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Slithereen
What I think about the Destroyers is that the powergrid and CPU is good either to support many small turrets, or a few low end medium ones, like quad lights, dual 150s.
A Battlecruiser or pocket battleship is sized in such a way, it can support eitehr a lot of medium weapons, or a few low end large weapons like a dual heavy pulse.
Many people has been asking these things in the Ideas forums.
I like the idea of faction ships too, like the ability to capture one, or given special BPs that you can make only one copy.
My dream for this game is there is more roleplaying with the ships. After all the ships are the true avatars of the players here. Pirates should be flying Sansha Overlord and Angel Warlord battleships, while the people fighting them get to fly a special civilian edition of a Concord battleship.
I would be very cranky if they used battleship sized guns. Normal cruiser sized turrets ( tech2 flavor ) in sufficient number and a nice bonus on the ship will make much more sense ( and would work a lot better with the training I've done so far for em ;) )
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Conman
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Posted - 2004.06.05 20:33:00 -
[19]
anyone have screen shots or a link to see the screen shots?
I am drunken irish slave hahaha i live
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Man'corr
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Posted - 2004.06.05 21:32:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: Bella Verde
Battlecruisers are going to be very useful, easier to fly in with less training than a BS, but the same hitpoints. Still need to fix regular cruisers, tho.
Less training then a BS, are you high on something?
They need cruiser lvl 5, which is a month training easily. ( and yes I've got it )
Actually i think youre the guy on dope, CCP says the ship is sposed to fill the cruiser -> battleship gap.
And any pilot that has cruiser lvl5 really can buy himself a battleship real fast........even when he wants a whole new one, instead of just a new insurance................
Plus theyre sposed to be whole new ship type, instead of an elite version of some other ship :P
All of above post was formulated wth 100% honesty and 100% sarcasm. Now i only need to get drunk
The 3rd turret is the Malediction is missing. Plz make as much noise as possible so that CCP gets us a remedy for that, possibly before X-Mas this year. |
Grimpak
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Posted - 2004.06.06 01:21:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: Bella Verde
Battlecruisers are going to be very useful, easier to fly in with less training than a BS, but the same hitpoints. Still need to fix regular cruisers, tho.
Less training then a BS, are you high on something?
They need cruiser lvl 5, which is a month training easily. ( and yes I've got it )
skills required for training for battlecruiser (dunno if it's correct.. bare with me)
tier2 skill (2x time multiplier) that reqires spaceship command lvl3 and escorts lvl3 (Linkage)
as for the escorts skill (again don't know if it's correct):
tier2 skill too that requires spaceship command lvl1 and engeneering lvl5 (2nd Linkage)
...so if that's correct... acctually only arround a week of training will do (if you haven't engeneering at lvl5 already)
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Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
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Lucian Alucard
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Posted - 2004.06.06 05:16:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Lucian Alucard on 06/06/2004 05:18:03
Battlecrusiers should beable to carry a limited number of large turrets say five or six so saying they only have enough CP/PWG to accomodate them. Now they should only have no more then eight high slots so as not to out gun a BS. It would make no sense if a BC could take out a Tier 2 BS but it should definetly be something a Tier 1 shouldn't ignore, yes I know Scorp pilots might hate this idea but the main tactics of a BC is hit and fade, MWD in lock the BS before it can lock u unload an equivalent barrage to that he was planning on hitting you with then getting out and with this said 4 to 6 Midslots should be given to them. Now this may sound like they are uber ships and flown right they very well could be but they should have armor equal to an Omen and sheilds equal to a Rax. So if a Scorp webs or warp scrambles a BC it can eat it for breakfast. Making EWar all the more important. And training Targetimg skill EXTREMLY important.
Please stop being a third rate flamer,I am tired of reactivating my account just to kick your ass. |
Sulyana Baiur
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Posted - 2004.06.06 09:16:00 -
[23]
Gunboat
A small vessel of shallow draught and with relatively heavy guns.
Monitor
a heavily armed warship of shallow draught
Corvette
a small, lightly armed, fast vessel, used mostly for convoy escort, ranging between a destroyer and a gunboat in size.
Frigate
a naval escort vessel between a corvetter and a destroyer in size
Destroyer
a fast warship with guns and torpedoes designed to protect other larger ships
Cruiser
a warship of high speed and medium armament
Battlecruiser
a warship of maximum speed and firepower, but with lighter armour than a battleship
Battleship
a warship of the heaviest armour and the largest guns
If CCP sticks to these traditional definitions it should be very simple what we're in for.
The Battlecruiser will be a cruiser with thicker armour and an ability to host more or larger weapons. But perhaps trickier to manage cap with. If you look at it plainly, a Megathron vs. a Thorax
12000 power vs. 700 power
4800 structure vs. 1200 structure
4500 capacitor vs. 1100 capacitor
I imagine that the Battlecruisers will fall somewhere inbetween these stats, perhaps 6500 power, 3600 structure, 2000 cap. something like that. It won't be able to deal the deathblow that a Battleship can, but it will definitely pack a bigger punch than a cruiser.
Destroyers would be basically the same, falling inbetween frigates and cruisers, in the very very large discrepancy between the two classes of ships...
Maller vs. Punisher
850 power vs. 42 power
1100 structure vs. 250 structure
1200 cap vs. 300 cap
an amarr destroyer might have 400 power, 600 structure, and 800 cap. not enough to mount many large weapons, but enough to mount a lot of small or a mix of small and meds, just like the description says.
Unless they introduce "Average" and "Big" size weapons to fit between small, medium and large.
*grins*
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John McCreedy
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Posted - 2004.06.06 15:36:00 -
[24]
Edited by: John McCreedy on 06/06/2004 16:12:47
Both sets of pics are of the same Destroyer but from differant angles and they both have 6 highlots. They also look like 280mm's on the Minmatar one to me which would make sense since to the best of my knowledge, the most turrest a Frigate can use is 3.
They're most likely going to be designed so they can target and fire on multiple Elite Frigates at the same time.
Edit:
Looking at it closer, it does have 10 weapons but they still look like 280's to me on the Minmatar. Certainly be interesting if they do have 10 slots because the current U.I. can't support 10 slots.
Make a difference
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Grimpak
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Posted - 2004.06.06 15:57:00 -
[25]
Originally by: John McCreedy
Both sets of pics are of the same Destroyer but from differant angles and they both have 6 highlots. They also look like 280mm's on the Minmatar one to me which would make sense since to the best of my knowledge, the most turrest a Frigate can use is 3.
They're most likely going to be designed so they can target and fire on multiple Elite Frigates at the same time.
...that remids me the anti-fighter role of the multi-gun corvete in Homeworld 1
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Quote:
Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
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Cadman Weyland
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Posted - 2004.06.06 17:24:00 -
[26]
Gun Corvette...Homeworld ...that brings back memories. Nevr did play the second one, got hooked on this.
Director of Empire Ops and Chief Carebear |
John McCreedy
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Posted - 2004.06.06 17:30:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Cadman Weyland
Gun Corvette...Homeworld ...that brings back memories. Nevr did play the second one, got hooked on this.
Go play it.
Make a difference
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Diana Merris
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Posted - 2004.06.07 13:06:00 -
[28]
The Amarr destroyer clearly has 8 high slots with turret hardpoints. Anyone who looks at the first picture can see the 8 guns on the top of the ship. If you take a good look at the second picture you can also see 3 guns on the bottom of the ship. The one on the rear left is firing. There is also a fourth gun on the bottom in the front left (ship wise) that is firing that you can't see. Given how symetrical the ship looks it seems highly unlikely that there would be turrets on the right side of the bottom and not on the left. that means 8 on the bottom as well.
The Minmatar destroyer is clearly symetrical and looks to be of the same design style as the Vigil. Looking at the rear left view of the ship we can see 2 guns at the bottom and 2 guns up top. We can also see 2 guns on the right side at the top. Since the ship is symetrical there are going to be 2 guns on the lower right side as well. There are also the 3 top middle and 3 lower front guns as well for a total of 14 guns making 7 pairs. Thats 7 high slots with turret hard points. Presumably, this being a minmatar ship, there are also launcher hardpoints and an 8th high slot.
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Melonie
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Posted - 2004.06.07 13:13:00 -
[29]
I read the info on destroyers. Its billed as a frigate killer, and made mention of the small gun mount points, but I saw no mention of scanning resolution. I think this will be a limiting factor in carrying out their duties
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Sulyana Baiur
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Posted - 2004.06.08 20:42:00 -
[30]
Uh... what?
The Amarr one has 8, that's obvious, the minmatar one has a set of prow guns (4, top two and bottom two) and a set of dorsal and keel guns (3 on top, at the center of the ship, 3 on the bottom center of the rear) that would make 7 guns by my count. Probably a missile launcher pod in it's 8th slot...
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