EVE Search - The new metagaming form is coming, is your alliance leadership ready?

Check My IP Information

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

The new metagaming form is coming, is your alliance leadership ready?

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2008.08.18 06:40:00 - [1] Hello, I was just wondering that when will IRL rich Goonswarm take new metagaming steps to ensure destruction of their foes. Now your wondering what am I talking about here .. new metagaming? Simple just buy billions of ISK's from ISK sellers and say that your char is some high level alliance leader and bam! They are banned. Good luck for trying to explain that you didn't bought that ISK or similar stuff. Easy and fast way to frack up your enemies. "The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of ~~gold~~crap"
Atrei Capital	Posted - 2008.08.18 06:44:00 - [2] Confirming that I will be the character receiving the ISK.
Moon Kitten GoonFleet	Posted - 2008.08.18 06:45:00 - [3] Boo!
Gojyu Ever Flow HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.08.18 06:48:00 - [4] It doesn't quite work that way - Targetted player notices a few extra billion isk in his account that wasn't there yesterday - Targetted player puts in a petition asking about said isk - GM realises isk was from farmer, the isk is taken from target's account - GM thanks target for his help. Or alternatively - Targetted player keeps isk - GM notices transaction and takes isk - Targetted player may be in negatives if he spent all of it, but then again, he's got several billion isk in assets he can now sell to make up for it Your plan relies on ccp banning isk buyers. They don't.
Ekrid	Posted - 2008.08.18 06:52:00 - [5] Im sure they would ban "repeat" offenders. So, take some alliance leader, lets say the leader of BoB, transfer a few bil isk from an isk seller website to his pocket, do this out of game so there are no logs to trace to you. Then, wait a couple days til a petition or GM gets the isk removed. repeat until the player stops appearing online anymore. they can't prove they're not buying the isk OOG, so it'll be a false positive. what can a GM do then?
Malcanis We are Legend eXceed.	Posted - 2008.08.18 07:12:00 - [6] Originally by: Ekrid Im sure they would ban "repeat" offenders. So, take some alliance leader, lets say the leader of BoB, transfer a few bil isk from an isk seller website to his pocket, do this out of game so there are no logs to trace to you. Then, wait a couple days til a petition or GM gets the isk removed. repeat until the player stops appearing online anymore. they can't prove they're not buying the isk OOG, so it'll be a false positive. what can a GM do then? Ban the source of the ISK. Repeatedly petitioning your own wallet is hardly going to get you banned; its much more likely to trigger a deeper investigation into the source of the ISK. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Gojyu Ever Flow HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.08.18 07:13:00 - [7] Well any player worth his salt is going to figure out something was up. No player in the world would be banned if they put in a petition "hey, someone keeps transferring bought isk to my account, I'll put in petitions when I notice it, just a heads up". And honestly, no 0.0 alliance leader in the game is going to be really hurting for isk
Malcanis We are Legend eXceed.	Posted - 2008.08.18 07:23:00 - [8] Originally by: Kuolematon Hello, I was just wondering that when will IRL rich Goonswarm take new metagaming steps to ensure destruction of their foes. Now your wondering what am I talking about here .. new metagaming? Simple just buy billions of ISK's from ISK sellers and say that your char is some high level alliance leader and bam! They are banned. Good luck for trying to explain that you didn't bought that ISK or similar stuff. Easy and fast way to frack up your enemies. Try it, let us know how it works out for you. Try it on me if you like. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
DFox31 North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.08.18 07:24:00 - [9] Originally by: Gojyu It doesn't quite work that way - Targetted player notices a few extra billion isk in his account that wasn't there yesterday - Targetted player puts in a petition asking about said isk - GM realises isk was from farmer, the isk is taken from target's account - GM thanks target for his help. Or alternatively - Targetted player keeps isk - GM notices transaction and takes isk - Targetted player may be in negatives if he spent all of it, but then again, he's got several billion isk in assets he can now sell to make up for it Your plan relies on ccp banning isk buyers. They don't. You won't be able to pay market fees.
Locke DieDrake Human Information Virus	Posted - 2008.08.18 07:25:00 - [10] You can't frame a player for isk buying. Assuming the player isn't stupid all they have to do is explain things to the GM on the case. If they are innocent, and they tell the GM, the logs will bear out their story, the isk will be removed and the source banned. The stories you hear about pilots getting banned or huge assets taken away are either 1)false 2)embellished 3)leaving out the part where they payed money for isk 4) leaving out the part where they abused the GM. In any of those cases, you deserve what you get. Do innocent people get burned once in a while? Maybe. I doubt it happens often though. Lastly, you guys do know that CCP bans hundreds of accounts all the time for isk selling/buying right? Years ago they would tell us about it occasionally. ______________________________________________ Goon FC(08/12/06):"its a trap" "that thing is fully operational"

Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.08.18 07:33:00 - [11] Fact is that alliance leaders have alts and can easily run their alliance if one account is investigated for a few days. It might cause a little bit of trouble, but if you think that will bring down a major alliance or coalition block then you are just plain wrong. -- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Gojyu Ever Flow HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.08.18 07:57:00 - [12] Quote: You won't be able to pay market fees. This is irrelevent, there are plenty of ways around that
Locke DieDrake Human Information Virus	Posted - 2008.08.18 08:03:00 - [13] Originally by: Gojyu It doesn't quite work that way - Targetted player notices a few extra billion isk in his account that wasn't there yesterday - Targetted player puts in a petition asking about said isk - GM realises isk was from farmer, the isk is taken from target's account - GM thanks target for his help. Or alternatively - Targetted player keeps isk - GM notices transaction and takes isk - Targetted player may be in negatives if he spent all of it, but then again, he's got several billion isk in assets he can now sell to make up for it Your plan relies on ccp banning isk buyers. They don't. You forgot the part where the GM takes not only the isk balance from your account, but also the assets you purchased with it. So now you have a negative wallet and none of the assets you purchased with dirty money. ______________________________________________ Goon FC(08/12/06):"its a trap" "that thing is fully operational"
Pan Crastus Anti-Metagaming League	Posted - 2008.08.18 08:06:00 - [14] Edited by: Pan Crastus on 18/08/2008 08:06:26 Originally by: Locke DieDrake Do innocent people get burned once in a while? Maybe. I doubt it happens often though. Sure, it is unlikely that someone receives large amounts of ISK from ISK sellers without anything visible ingame in return, but on the other hand, CCP has no way to prove anything regarding out of game transactions, so they are always just guessing. Which kinda sucks in case you just happened to scam an ISK farmer successfully e.g. How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
Locke DieDrake Human Information Virus	Posted - 2008.08.18 08:16:00 - [15] Originally by: Pan Crastus Edited by: Pan Crastus on 18/08/2008 08:06:26 Originally by: Locke DieDrake Do innocent people get burned once in a while? Maybe. I doubt it happens often though. Sure, it is unlikely that someone receives large amounts of ISK from ISK sellers without anything visible ingame in return, but on the other hand, CCP has no way to prove anything regarding out of game transactions, so they are always just guessing. Which kinda sucks in case you just happened to scam an ISK farmer successfully e.g. Granted, if you deal with an isk seller (farming isn't illegal, selling is) you might get burned, and yes, I know you have no way of really knowing beforehand. It's a sad side effect. Luckily, if you believe any of the rumors, none of them speak english, so you probably can't scam them anyway. In all seriousness, if you tell the facts to the GMs, you'll probably be cleared if you are innocent. I transfer around a lot of isk on a monthly basis. Between my different accounts and the accounts of friends and associates. I mean a lot. Never had an issue in more than 2 years. I'm one of those people that wouldn't even notice a few hundred extra million in one of my wallets. But I wouldn't have any bones about telling the GM to look at my wallet history, and all the accounts I use, and take anything that you can trace to a dirty player. I've never done anything "wrong" so I don't worry about it. The GMs have always been reasonable when I've dealt with them. Yes, I've heard horror stories, and employee abuse and all that. Frankly, most of it is smoke and mirrors. On occasion CCP has screwed up, but on those occasions, they have dealt with it. My only complaint is they prefer to do that behind closed doors, even when the issue is publicly known. (see CCP GM gifting faction fitted rattlesnake to self and then losing it to 0.0 gate camp---all on a nub character less than 30 days old (and incapable of flying a BS)) ______________________________________________ Goon FC(08/12/06):"its a trap" "that thing is fully operational"
Ekrid	Posted - 2008.08.18 10:35:00 - [16] oh cant you? legitimate player banned for having isk transferred into his wallet repeatedly from isk sellers. note that he's simply getting paid for his territory, like he would from non-isk sellers, but since they also sell isk, and they gave him lots of money that filtered down through the alliance, he's banned. tch tch..
Schani Kratnorr x13	Posted - 2008.08.18 10:47:00 - [17] About a hundred years ago CCP decided to start allowing character and ISK trading (by way of gametime). Back then, a lot of players voiced opinions and warnings. Most agreed that having a "blakc market" outside the influence of CCP was worse than having CCP "set the price" of isk by issuing time at a certain $-amount, thus forcing the hours spent versus dollars made downwards. Character and ISK trading has always and will always exist I dont think we can get away from that. I DO however think the legit trade is hurting the game-experience in a number of subtle ways. In any case it has permanently changed the way some people play the game. For better or for worse, people with deep pockets in real life, can now buy themselves a head start.
Neesa Corrinne Dark Destiny Inc. Send More Paramedics	Posted - 2008.08.18 11:29:00 - [18] Originally by: Kuolematon Hello, I was just wondering that when will IRL rich Goonswarm take new metagaming steps to ensure destruction of their foes. Now your wondering what am I talking about here .. new metagaming? Simple just buy billions of ISK's from ISK sellers and say that your char is some high level alliance leader and bam! They are banned. Good luck for trying to explain that you didn't bought that ISK or similar stuff. Easy and fast way to frack up your enemies. A very similar scenario already happened to one of my corporations. We were a small group of players who liked to PVP every night, but in order to do so we all had alts to earn our ISK. Several of our alts were in the same industrial corp. At one point our industrial corporation teamed up with another industrial corporation in order to start building capital ships. One day a few players log on and find all of their accounts banned. It turns out that the other industrial corp had been buying ISK to start up their operations and when we bought into their corporation a lot of that ISK ended up in our alts hands. POOF. 10 players gone. In a corporation with only 30 active players, we were a ghost town overnight. All of the alt corps assets were frozen, which amounted to several players entire funds and untold billions in ISK, POS's (all sitting offlined now), BPO's, T2 production, Capital Production... ect. No amount of petitioning or attempts to reason with CCP that none of us had actually purchased ISK helped get our friends back into the game. A few other players in the corporation left the game on their own after that incident (Who wants to attempt to reacquire 3 years worth of assets?) which pretty much forced the rest of us to leave and find new corporations. So if anyone thinks this isn't possible, it's not only possible, but CCP can't even be reasonable about it either, so don't expect to continue playing if dirty ISK shows up in your account for any reason at all.
Lazuran Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2008.08.18 11:38:00 - [19] Originally by: Schani Kratnorr Back then, a lot of players voiced opinions and warnings. Most agreed that having a "blakc market" outside the influence of CCP was worse than having CCP "set the price" of isk by issuing time at a certain $-amount, thus forcing the hours spent versus dollars made downwards. 2 major issues here: a) "most" is an unfounded claim, there was no such agreement, it was never debated, CCP just did it. IMO, having legal ISK purchases is a defeatist and greedy stance and since it's CCP-sanctioned, more people do it, so it has a large negative impact on the game (yes, I know that some not very bright people claim that no ISK enters or leaves the game etc., but it's a fact that people can buy their way ahead and this is a problem) b) now we have both a black market and GTC<->ISK conversion, which is arguably worse than just one of these (except for CCP but they're not an NPO so no sympathy). Quote: Character and ISK trading has always and will always exist I dont think we can get away from that. I DO however think the legit trade is hurting the game-experience in a number of subtle ways. In any case it has permanently changed the way some people play the game. Indeed. e.g. I'm a rich bastard OOG and I find it stupid that there's a peer pressure to waste additional OOG money for ingame toys like Motherships just as it's stupid to actually do it because you're supposed to play the game, not buy your way ahead (it's not satisfactory to cheat like that, well for me at least). Also, the ISK purchases have given CCP a cheap excuse for not working on less mind-numbingly boring ways to earn ingame ISK. Quote: For better or for worse, people with deep pockets in real life, can now buy themselves a head start. For worse. Of course there would be a way to combat it even if it can't be killed (just crack down on ISK sellers and no GTC=>ISK conversion), but CCP have chosen the greedy path.
Malcanis We are Legend eXceed.	Posted - 2008.08.18 11:46:00 - [20] Originally by: Ekrid oh cant you? legitimate player banned for having isk transferred into his wallet repeatedly from isk sellers. note that he's simply getting paid for his territory, like he would from non-isk sellers, but since they also sell isk, and they gave him lots of money that filtered down through the alliance, he's banned. tch tch.. Hmmm, let's see, his argument was that he knew full well that they were Isk FARMERS AND RENTED THE SPACE OUT TO THEM ANYWAY BECAUSE CCP DIDN'T BAN THEM FAST ENOUGH. Uh, right. That's like saying, "oh well getting rid of drugs is impossible, so it's OK to rent out my spare room as a crack den". And then whining when the police bust you too. Alliances with zero tolerance for ISk farmers seem to have few or none in their space. You're telling me that a top PvP alliance cant keep a few poorly equipped ravens from ratting in their space? Bullshit tbh. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.

Viqtoria Caldari Groping Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.08.18 11:50:00 - [21] yeah just keep hitting someone elses' wallet up with 100m illegal isk every week (obviously when you buy the isk give their character name, not your own), rich players more than likely won't notice 100m randomly appearing, cos sell orders could be it and all that...slips past...week after week, 100m, 100m... this is an old tactic.
Lazuran Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2008.08.18 11:50:00 - [22] Edited by: Lazuran on 18/08/2008 11:52:51 Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Ekrid oh cant you? legitimate player banned for having isk transferred into his wallet repeatedly from isk sellers. note that he's simply getting paid for his territory, like he would from non-isk sellers, but since they also sell isk, and they gave him lots of money that filtered down through the alliance, he's banned. tch tch.. Hmmm, let's see, his argument was that he knew full well that they were Isk FARMERS AND RENTED THE SPACE OUT TO THEM ANYWAY BECAUSE CCP DIDN'T BAN THEM FAST ENOUGH. Uh, right. That's like saying, "oh well getting rid of drugs is impossible, so it's OK to rent out my spare room as a crack den". And then whining when the police bust you too. Alliances with zero tolerance for ISk farmers seem to have few or none in their space. You're telling me that a top PvP alliance cant keep a few poorly equipped ravens from ratting in their space? Bullshit tbh. It's not the players' job to police the game and there are no ingame tools available to check whether someone you're doing business with violates the EULA. The legitimate player mentioned did not violate the EULA, there's no case for flaming him or defending CCP if the story is true. Stupid fanboi troll is obvious. PS. "ISK farmer" is not the same as "ISK seller"
Atlas Elestra Titan Mining LLC	Posted - 2008.08.18 11:58:00 - [23] I think the whole Dollars to ISK or ISK to Game time ability is an interesting one... In my case I'm planning on starting to buy GTCs via ISK soon becuase i'm reaching the point with my character I can pull down the 350-400million ISK it costs, and in Real Life I'm kinda poor at the moment so dedicating some play time to allowing me to play for free is great. I do see the negative impact it can have when people can spend money for in game advantages, but at the same time people who often get ahead in game via that mechanic dont' really know what to do with it. They in essence can be abused by the more savvy player who learned as they increased in income level etc.... ôSalvage is as much an art as building the ship itself. We take rubble and make rigs, now that takes Talent.ö
Lazuran Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2008.08.18 12:04:00 - [24] Originally by: Atlas Elestra and in Real Life I'm kinda poor at the moment so dedicating some play time to allowing me to play for free is great. Seriously, it can't be said often enough: get a job in RL. Or do you actually enjoy farming ISK just to pay your account? I've never met anyone who actually enjoyed ratting/mining/whatever to such an extent that he rather did that for 7-8 hours than 1 hour of RL work. Which is where all the pressure to stop wasting time on ISK ingame and start buying ISK comes from (thanks CCP for making this part of the game so boring...). Quote: I do see the negative impact it can have when people can spend money for in game advantages, but at the same time people who often get ahead in game via that mechanic dont' really know what to do with it. They in essence can be abused by the more savvy player who learned as they increased in income level etc.... I don't think the occasional lolkillmail can compensate all the players for the fact that you are pressurized to buy ISK to compete at the same level.
Malcanis We are Legend eXceed.	Posted - 2008.08.18 12:08:00 - [25] Originally by: Lazuran Edited by: Lazuran on 18/08/2008 11:52:51 Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Ekrid oh cant you? legitimate player banned for having isk transferred into his wallet repeatedly from isk sellers. note that he's simply getting paid for his territory, like he would from non-isk sellers, but since they also sell isk, and they gave him lots of money that filtered down through the alliance, he's banned. tch tch.. Hmmm, let's see, his argument was that he knew full well that they were Isk FARMERS AND RENTED THE SPACE OUT TO THEM ANYWAY BECAUSE CCP DIDN'T BAN THEM FAST ENOUGH. Uh, right. That's like saying, "oh well getting rid of drugs is impossible, so it's OK to rent out my spare room as a crack den". And then whining when the police bust you too. Alliances with zero tolerance for ISk farmers seem to have few or none in their space. You're telling me that a top PvP alliance cant keep a few poorly equipped ravens from ratting in their space? Bullshit tbh. It's not the players' job to police the game and there are no ingame tools available to check whether someone you're doing business with violates the EULA. The legitimate player mentioned did not violate the EULA, there's no case for flaming him or defending CCP if the story is true. Stupid fanboi troll is obvious. PS. "ISK farmer" is not the same as "ISK seller" Its not a troll, it's a sincere belief. He dealt with EULA breakers, he got burned. Too bad, so sad. Sorry if he was your mate and all, but maybe he should have been a little more up front about using 40 billion dirty ISK on an alliance project. New thread on COAD "explains" that he didnt rent space to ISK sellers, he just accepted a "present" from an account run by "a big alliance" that does rent to them - the nature of which he was well aware. A "present". Sure. How many times have we seen threads posted in GD where some butt-hurt cheater cries that his good friend adsgsjdgf sent him a "present" of billions of ISK and now mean ol' CCP have taken the shiny away? Plenty. And now one more. It's a real simple clear equation: accept dirty ISk = you may lose it Oh and as for "everyone does it". Well if you have proof, petition it. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Lazuran Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2008.08.18 12:14:00 - [26] Originally by: Malcanis accept dirty ISk = you may lose it Oh and as for "everyone does it". Well if you have proof, petition it. There is no "dirty ISK", all ISK is the same and has no label. Players cannot check where ISK comes from, all they can do is avoid EULA violations themselves and the player mentioned did that. No ISK bought with any of his characters, no basis for CCP to take it away. You can also not check whether someone else engages in illegal activities, so you cannot make sure that your "renters" are not ISK sellers (not the same as "ISK farmers" again for you). You can rant in your usual fanboiish way all day long, it does not change a thing if the story as told here is true.
Atlas Elestra Titan Mining LLC	Posted - 2008.08.18 12:21:00 - [27] Originally by: Lazuran Seriously, it can't be said often enough: get a job in RL. Or do you actually enjoy farming ISK just to pay your account? I've never met anyone who actually enjoyed ratting/mining/whatever to such an extent that he rather did that for 7-8 hours than 1 hour of RL work. I've been looking for a job. I don't have one. In the mean time my in game income is getting to the point where I can drop the ISK for play time. Don't really feel like getting into the details of my life that are none of your business. But a game having a way for someone to play for free I think is a good thing, regardless of what your economic situation is. ôSalvage is as much an art as building the ship itself. We take rubble and make rigs, now that takes Talent.ö
Ranger 1 Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.08.18 12:40:00 - [28] Edited by: Ranger 1 on 18/08/2008 12:46:01 Originally by: Lazuran Originally by: Malcanis accept dirty ISk = you may lose it Oh and as for "everyone does it". Well if you have proof, petition it. There is no "dirty ISK", all ISK is the same and has no label. Players cannot check where ISK comes from, all they can do is avoid EULA violations themselves and the player mentioned did that. No ISK bought with any of his characters, no basis for CCP to take it away. You can also not check whether someone else engages in illegal activities, so you cannot make sure that your "renters" are not ISK sellers (not the same as "ISK farmers" again for you). You can rant in your usual fanboiish way all day long, it does not change a thing if the story as told here is true. You are very naive I'm afraid. I was going to leave it at that but lets take a moment to flesh this out. A: In the situation of the Titan pilot, he was well aware of who his renters were and where the isk came from. He'd be an idiot not to. It's not hard to figure out who isk sellers/farmers are. B: You seem strangely hung up on thinking isk sellers and isk farmers are two different groups. Where... exactly... do you think the isk that is sold comes from? Santa Claus? C: People that recieve illegal goods tend to lose it, in game or out, and face possible penalties. If the deal is too good to be true, if isk keeps showing up out of nowhere, if you even suspect the isk came from an isk seller... just say no (or petition). It's not worth the trouble. D: Stop blaming CCP for your apparent lack of character, or insight, I'm not sure which.
Atlas Elestra Titan Mining LLC	Posted - 2008.08.18 12:43:00 - [29] 400 millin isk for 60 Days... 400 mil is about 10-14 Level 4 Missions. Hardly ISK Farming. Plus I enjoy running missions. So it looks win/win to me... As for am I an Addict who's letting the game take over... not really I play a couple hours a day. I'd rather relax in front of EVE than the TV... It's all relative. ôSalvage is as much an art as building the ship itself. We take rubble and make rigs, now that takes Talent.ö
Ranger 1 Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.08.18 12:49:00 - [30] Yeah, I was kind of wondering how purchasing a game time card equated to "Isk Farmer". But, thank god, he had the opportunity to voice his opinion on the issue eh?



Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.