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Lao Zuki Caldari The Deadbeats	Posted - 2008.08.18 17:46:00 - [1] Before your corps decides to join the Caldari Militia, you should know that many corps - and individual pilots - join the Caldari Militia in order to use blue status to shoot other Militia members. This is known as blue piracy. Two latest examples:- Militia pirates intentionally shooting blues in the carrier battle in Heydieles 8-17-08 at 20:40; Militia pirates intentionally shooting blues in Rancer (which is normally a death trap system, but was 100% Caldari Militia at the time when killings occurred) 8-18-08 at 16:58. The Caldari Militia tolerates these blue pirates and does nothing to police their own. The Caldari Militia responds to complaints about blue pirates by telling victims to "stop whining." Or calling victims "liars" despite screen shot evidence to the contrary. The Caldari Militia is losing all moral authority in it's RP objectives by tolerating - and encouraging - the use of blue pirates to kill neutrals as well as it's own pilots. Before you consider joining the Caldari Militia, you should be aware that many of them may be pirates who have no problems killing you and your corps mates. Our little corps is pulling out of the Caldari Militia. Big mistake joining.
Yuki Li Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.18 18:19:00 - [2] You were very important and you'll be greatly missed. It's a militia, not a Navy, it doesn't have an organised command structure, there isn't anyone to "punish" wrongdoers, and this isn't limited to just one militia. Website Recruiting
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Shadow Company G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.08.18 18:30:00 - [3] Originally by: Yuki Li You were very important and you'll be greatly missed. It's a militia, not a Navy, it doesn't have an organised command structure, there isn't anyone to "punish" wrongdoers, and this isn't limited to just one militia. If the militia can't trust its own it will not be effective. If it is as the OP says it explains quite well why the Caldari militia have been losing system after system against a bunch of gallente degenerates. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
Sky Grunthor Minmatar The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.	Posted - 2008.08.18 18:37:00 - [4] Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel Originally by: Yuki Li You were very important and you'll be greatly missed. It's a militia, not a Navy, it doesn't have an organised command structure, there isn't anyone to "punish" wrongdoers, and this isn't limited to just one militia. If the militia can't trust its own it will not be effective. If it is as the OP says it explains quite well why the Caldari militia have been losing system after system against a bunch of gallente degenerates. All the militias suffer from blue pirating to some degree... The caldari have been losing system after system because they won't come and force us out. They send a blob here and there, a raiding party, counter plexers bunches of other stuff.... Blob comes and dies or is impotent. raiders come and dies. counter plexers can't find plexes, they get to die as well when caught. As of yet they have sent no one to come and live where the fight is. So they are powerless to stop us. Please send someone that wants these systems... apparently the cal mil doesn't by evidence to date.
Doctor Scarblood Amarr Spolia Opima	Posted - 2008.08.18 19:23:00 - [5] Militias will go down the tubes if members cannot find ways to deal with blue piracy. Can you imagine old timers like Cyvok, Hardin or Molle putting up with blue pirates in their alliances? They would boot the offending pilots and in some cases their entire corps. There would be public hangings! For sure the Caldari Militia has the worst reputation for piracy, but all militias must suffer from this problem to some extent. It is a structural problem which needs to be addressed - militias must have a command structure which can boot offenders. The Caldari will never beat the Gallente or Minimatar or anyone else without some moral authority - numbers alone are not enough. Someone in the Caldari Militia (particularly the handful of good FC's they have) should start some sort of campaign to wipe out corrupt and selfish players in their fleets. If the Caldari are fighting as representative of large capitalist corporations, I think it's fair to say that blue piracy is no way to run a business. Hale and farewell!
Dex Nederland Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems	Posted - 2008.08.18 19:49:00 - [6] Originally by: Doctor Scarblood If the Caldari are fighting as representative of large capitalist corporations, I think it's fair to say that blue piracy is no way to run a business. Actually it is part of the reason that the 8 large security corporations exist. Sometimes the megacorporations step on each others toes and it can cause a brief corporate war to occur. This has changed to some degree with KK's CEO having control of the State Megacorporation's corporate strategic assets. However, if Ishukone decides they want the moon Lai Dai is utilizing they are going to 'hire' some 'pirates' to go after it, reduce the effectiveness of Lai Dai's operation and move in afterwards. Whether or not it back fires depends on who exactly the 'pirates' are. Welcome to State politics.
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Shadow Company G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.08.18 19:54:00 - [7] Originally by: Dex Nederland Originally by: Doctor Scarblood If the Caldari are fighting as representative of large capitalist corporations, I think it's fair to say that blue piracy is no way to run a business. Actually it is part of the reason that the 8 large security corporations exist. Sometimes the megacorporations step on each others toes and it can cause a brief corporate war to occur. This has changed to some degree with KK's CEO having control of the State Megacorporation's corporate strategic assets. However, if Ishukone decides they want the moon Lai Dai is utilizing they are going to 'hire' some 'pirates' to go after it, reduce the effectiveness of Lai Dai's operation and move in afterwards. Whether or not it back fires depends on who exactly the 'pirates' are. Welcome to State politics. Don't confuse inter-corp competition with intra-corp disruptions. One is a hardline way to run business, the other is corruption (which means losses in efficiency and assets).
Doctor Scarblood Amarr Spolia Opima	Posted - 2008.08.18 20:08:00 - [8] As Nomakai points out... Quote: Don't confuse inter-corp competition with intra-corp disruptions. One is a hardline way to run business, the other is corruption (which means losses in efficiency and assets). Blue piracy "means losses in efficiency and assets." I mean, you want to join a fleet and wonder if your own guys are going to shoot you to loot your ship? Want to enter low-sec and see nothing but militia members and then get killed at the gate? You'll have better luck joining The Church - at least those pirates have some honor amongst thieve! Moe, Larry, cheese!!!!
Dex Nederland Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems	Posted - 2008.08.18 20:48:00 - [9] Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel Don't confuse inter-corp competition with intra-corp disruptions. One is a hardline way to run business, the other is corruption (which means losses in efficiency and assets). Inter-corp competition can lead to one corporation causing intra-corp disruption in a competing corporation. For example, there are rumors about some corporations making deals with large pirate cartels to disrupt competitors shipping while protecting their own. A benefit to the deal making corporation and pirates, not the victims. In other situations one corporation might hire mercenaries known for keeping quiet their customers to cut off a particular asset. The corporations don't only compete against non-Caldari corporations, but each other as well. There seems to be this misconception that the megacorporations of the State are nice and friendly towards each other or are happy with the fact that their strategic assets are under the control of someone with no previous experience at running a corporation.
Havohej The Defias Brotherhood	Posted - 2008.08.18 21:21:00 - [10] Originally by: Doctor Scarblood Can you imagine old timers like Cyvok, Hardin or Molle putting up with blue pirates in their alliances? They would boot the offending pilots and in some cases their entire corps. There would be public hangings! It was my understanding when these wars went active that the empires would be monitoring individuals' standings and lowering such when members of their militias aggressed each other. Was this not true? Did it change? If my understanding is correct, these so-called 'blue pirates' can only do this for so long before their standings with their faction would drop so low as to see their corporation expelled from the militia. Originally by: Doctor Scarblood The Caldari will never beat the Gallente or Minimatar or anyone else without some moral authority - numbers alone are not enough. Moral authority is a Tech 2 AutoCannon.

Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Shadow Company G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.08.18 22:07:00 - [11] Originally by: Dex Nederland Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel Don't confuse inter-corp competition with intra-corp disruptions. One is a hardline way to run business, the other is corruption (which means losses in efficiency and assets). Inter-corp competition can lead to one corporation causing intra-corp disruption in a competing corporation. For example, there are rumors about some corporations making deals with large pirate cartels to disrupt competitors shipping while protecting their own. A benefit to the deal making corporation and pirates, not the victims. In other situations one corporation might hire mercenaries known for keeping quiet their customers to cut off a particular asset. The corporations don't only compete against non-Caldari corporations, but each other as well. There seems to be this misconception that the megacorporations of the State are nice and friendly towards each other or are happy with the fact that their strategic assets are under the control of someone with no previous experience at running a corporation. It's still no way to run a business, with the implied meaning with "business" that it's your own business we're talking about here. The corporations do indeed have security services, to prevent both internal disruptions (such as illegal strikes, corruption etc) and corporate sabotage. But for example it would never be acceptable for a Lai Dai corporation to prey on another Lai Dai corporation, or for a Megacorp to attack the security forces of another Megacorp in the middle of a joint action against the Guristas or Gallente Navy. Indeed, It could be considered a just cause for complete termination. Complaints about internal militia piracy should not be ignored or mocked or swept under the carpet with loser excuses like "The corporations are doing it to each other". If anything the Caldari militia should be taking a page out of the CVA playbook. It would be interesting how long these "blue pirates" would be running around if there was an available blacklist. Pirates like these should be dealt with with extreme prejudice. Even the most savage of 0.0 corporations and alliances recognize this fact. Only honourless s****engage in Blue on Blue violence.
Dex Nederland Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems	Posted - 2008.08.18 23:11:00 - [12] Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel It's still no way to run a business, with the implied meaning with "business" that it's your own business we're talking about here. The corporations do indeed have security services, to prevent both internal disruptions (such as illegal strikes, corruption etc) and corporate sabotage. But for example it would never be acceptable for a Lai Dai corporation to prey on another Lai Dai corporation, or for a Megacorp to attack the security forces of another Megacorp in the middle of a joint action against the Guristas or Gallente Navy. Indeed, It could be considered a just cause for complete termination. Complaints about internal militia piracy should not be ignored or mocked or swept under the carpet with loser excuses like "The corporations are doing it to each other". If anything the Caldari militia should be taking a page out of the CVA playbook. It would be interesting how long these "blue pirates" would be running around if there was an available blacklist. Pirates like these should be dealt with with extreme prejudice. Even the most savage of 0.0 corporations and alliances recognize this fact. Only honourless s****engage in Blue on Blue violence. It is much harder to screen the militia members and corporations, especially when attempts to organize are hindered by additional outside threats. I was not intending to sweep the concern under the carpet, it is a valid concern and I apologize if I sounded that way. My intention was to point out that disputes and corporate competition within the State can lead to 'blue on blue' conflicts with relation to State politics. The open warfare tends to be limited between the Megacorporations and most issues are solved within the courts of the Caldari Business Tribunal. You suggest that the Caldari State pod pilot corporations and STPRO organize along the lines of an alliance, but it lacks some of the very useful tools an alliance has to maintain discipline and internal security, like removing pilots and corporations from the organization. Creating a blacklist only works if there is a way to distribute this blacklist to everyone and then those on it may work to have their names altered and return under a new alias.
Natalia Duraldi Gallente Pillowsoft	Posted - 2008.08.18 23:49:00 - [13] The worst part about the intra militia piracy is the lack of ability to properly defend against it. If a fleet is marshelled and comes across "blue pirates" then unfortunately the only way to protect the fleet assests is to engage in piracy itself. Of course this leads to a standing hit both with the corresponding Militia as well as a Concord hit. The Concord hit I really don't mind, however to lose standing with your militia because you were protecting fellow militia is rather troubling
Stitcher Caldari Duty.	Posted - 2008.08.18 23:56:00 - [14] Edited by: Stitcher on 18/08/2008 23:56:31 While I may not be formally empowered to speak or make decisions on behalf of Duty., I can say that we have a strong history of peacekeeping operations and anti-piracy work in Caldari low-sec space, and can only assume that we'd be interested in taking an active role in hunting down these "blue pirates". While I can't guarantee that it would accomplish anything, I invite Captain Zuki and anyone else with evidence of this kind of disruptive piracy to forward their gathered data to me and to other fleet commanders, executives and leaders within the militia structure. It's all very well and good airing your frustration, but just complaining about these people then walking out on the militia does nothing to solve the problem. We can't very well form a counter tactic without names, corporations and intelligence data. If you REALLY want to do something about it, the first step is to alert your (former) fellow militia pilots as to who they should be watching out for. In other words, pilot: If you've got names, for crap's sake *share them*.
Esna Pitoojee Amarr Heavily Utilized Mechanic Mayhem	Posted - 2008.08.19 04:10:00 - [15] While I doubt that the Caldari militia is entirely composed of pirates or pirate sypathizers, I have no doubt that there are members of all four militias that are... less scrupulous about who they target.
Vaden Khale Amarr the united	Posted - 2008.08.19 06:42:00 - [16] Originally by: Lao Zuki Militia pirates intentionally shooting blues in Rancer (which is normally a death trap system, but was 100% Caldari Militia at the time when killings occurred) 8-18-08 at 16:58 *Vaden erupts onto the comm channel, clutching his sides as he laughs hysterically, his humor obviously not degraded with age.* Surely, you are not alerting us all that criminals act like...criminals? My apologies for my friends destroying your naivete.
Spike Diesel Minmatar The Deadbeats	Posted - 2008.08.19 11:25:00 - [17] Blue pirates are a problem but the real bug up yer bums is lack of human command and control of the militia. if you cant boot or otherwise discipline pirates targeting and killing your own peeps then good pilots will leave the militia. The bad always drive out the good. Caldari Militia is infested with blue pirates - and it will lead to yer defeat.
Sky Grunthor Minmatar The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.	Posted - 2008.08.19 11:52:00 - [18] If caldari are suffering from this problem as much as you say they are I have to wonder why. Gallente, while hearing a smattering of this sort of thing, does not suffer from it to my knowledge. Minmatar I haven't heard of this at all or in Amarr. What I can see is that Caldari have the greatest number of free agents. The mob (State Protectorate) is seen as a viable place to be for the average caldari millitia member. Given this I would think that it would make it far easier for blue pirates to gain entrance and trust. Gallente in contrast tend to see the corporations as the viable place to be for the average member. The Fed Def is seen as a recruiting ground to find good members but not seen as very useful for actually getting things accomplished. As the focus and power does reside in the corporations we have more control over blue pirating expessially for with an inherant distrust of non corporation members. Now of course I am viewing this from outside the CalMil so I am probably missing or messing up how you guys view each other internally. But from my limited perspective here this seems like the largest difference.
Heartstone Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.08.19 13:17:00 - [19] The screen flickers and a rather disheveled looking Heartstone looks at the screen at an odd angle. Reaching over he straightens the camera. First of all sorry about the mess we've had a busy week and I haven't had much time for cleaning. I have to thank Mentally Unstable Enterprises and The United for their sterling work in removing supporters of Heth from the Caldari Militia. Despite being targets for us as well they have shown what a little subversion and dedication can do for you. So despite being enemies of ours I salute you guys. Heartstone holds two thumbs up with a big grin on his face. Then laughing to himself he switches off the camera.
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.08.19 16:32:00 - [20] The Caldari Militia as a Haven for Pirates? ItÆs more likely than you think. But since the Caldari Militia is also a haven for: War-avoiders, cod-nationalists, practical poseurs and liberalist bleeding heart hypocrites, perma-docked rhetoricals, supplies profiteers, informers, petty thieves, can-flippers, confused miners, frustrated politicos, 0.0 exiles, hisec campers, ranting lunatics and a general collection of capsuleers who seem to have no place or purpose anywhere else in the cluster à one has to conclude that the ôpiratesö are far from the worst of it. Tibus Heth is a frothing genocidal maniac who is marching to some imagined ôhigher destinyö on a road of skulls harvested from his countrymen first and foremost. Can you really imagine that such a regressive and aberrant personality would care about criminals in the militia predating on the misplaced loyalty of credulous fools if it appears said criminals are more effective than those quafe-house patriots that simply talk a good fight while running for the hills the first moment adversity threatens? ItÆs the season for illusions to be shattered.

Hustle Fighter Caldari The Deadbeats	Posted - 2008.08.19 17:30:00 - [21] Edited by: Hustle Fighter on 19/08/2008 17:30:30 Jade and Heartstone rock! Love 'em or hate 'em, Star Fraction has consistently flown around the galaxy with a very focused ideology - and a guiding ideology is probably the most effective weapon you can give to your pilots. Go zap those militia, Star Fraction - someone's gotta do it.
3ll3 Gallente Tranquillity Nation	Posted - 2008.08.19 20:17:00 - [22] Those that can not stand together shall fail and crumble that is how it is with any organisation including Milita's. It saddens me that even though they are the foe of the Matari Milita that they can not act profesionaly, hell even none milita based Pirtate corps can work together for a common purpose with out attacking each other. I have seen two corps who hate each other with a vengence put their difreances aside and work together in a strained enviroement but working together none the less. Yet these guys in the Caldari Milita can not and find they cannot resist easy targets that being fellow milita members that are suposed to be blue to them. I would have thought they would have performed piracy on the other Milita's and not their own, well as sad as it may be I guess we shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth and applud them for for helping us Gallentian and Matari Milita for helping to defeat the caldari Milita. Yet it still feels like a hollow victory some how.
Hamish Grayson Caldari Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2008.08.20 13:26:00 - [23] Originally by: Lao Zuki The Caldari Militia responds to complaints about blue pirates by telling victims to "stop whining." Zuki-haan, I can only hope other's hear you message before enlisting. The front lines are no place for victims. Respectfully, H.G.
Inara Subaka Caldari the united	Posted - 2008.08.20 17:34:00 - [24] Originally by: Lao Zuki Militia pirates intentionally shooting blues in Rancer (which is normally a death trap system, but was 100% Caldari Militia at the time when killings occurred) 8-18-08 at 16:58. Well, considering you just spoke of my home, I'm assuming either myself or one of my business associates were responsible for the destruction of your ship... in either case you were possibly offered a chance to save your ship (unless it was a cruiser of smaller). I fire almost without discrimination, and "friendlies" in the war shoot at me often enough due to my criminal status without repercussions. My advice, avoid those you don't trust, and keep an eye on those you do.
Number 17 Caldari COLD-Wing	Posted - 2008.08.20 18:54:00 - [25] Being the richest nation, with the most atractive trade routes, the biggest market hub in the history of this universe. It is only normal that pirate activity is higher in Caldari space. Tama is just an example of an age long pirate infested system, with pirates now being baptised as "Gallente Militia". Such pirate entities, either freeagents or corporations have long been a cancer in our space. Where trading profits are so big that the "losses" to pirates still leave a good margin. Of course this will happen a lot less other nations underpopulated and impoverished systems. Wether they shoot a target one day, and change to another target the next, it makes no difference. Keep saying caldari militia is failing, maybe we'll all believe it and give up.
Pascale DesJardain	Posted - 2008.08.20 21:37:00 - [26] Originally by: Sky Grunthor If caldari are suffering from this problem as much as you say they are I have to wonder why. Gallente, while hearing a smattering of this sort of thing, does not suffer from it to my knowledge. Minmatar I haven't heard of this at all or in Amarr. What I can see is that Caldari have the greatest number of free agents. The mob (State Protectorate) is seen as a viable place to be for the average caldari millitia member. Given this I would think that it would make it far easier for blue pirates to gain entrance and trust. Gallente in contrast tend to see the corporations as the viable place to be for the average member. The Fed Def is seen as a recruiting ground to find good members but not seen as very useful for actually getting things accomplished. As the focus and power does reside in the corporations we have more control over blue pirating expessially for with an inherant distrust of non corporation members. Now of course I am viewing this from outside the CalMil so I am probably missing or messing up how you guys view each other internally. But from my limited perspective here this seems like the largest difference. Now this made me laugh as it flashed across the screen.. Gallente took in the defunct and disgusting backstabbing blue pirates from endemic agression. Who randomly ganked their own militia on a daily basis. Their standings became so bad they were fired out of the minmatar militia twice, only to join Art of War, where im sure they are continuing to gank their own militia. Free kills for them without having to work for them. Its the only way for them to get any. Before you comment about other militias, take a good hard look at your own. Bottom line, you took in Rens 911 (ex goons) and think you are squeeky clean. Minmatar had the good sense to blacklist the s****and send them packing.
Sky Grunthor Minmatar The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.	Posted - 2008.08.20 21:49:00 - [27] Originally by: Pascale DesJardain Now this made me laugh as it flashed across the screen.. Gallente took in the defunct and disgusting backstabbing blue pirates from endemic agression. Who randomly ganked their own militia on a daily basis. Their standings became so bad they were fired out of the minmatar militia twice, only to join Art of War, where im sure they are continuing to gank their own militia. Free kills for them without having to work for them. Its the only way for them to get any. Before you comment about other militias, take a good hard look at your own. Bottom line, you took in Rens 911 (ex goons) and think you are squeeky clean. Minmatar had the good sense to blacklist the s****and send them packing. Before you comment on my comments... please make sure you make sense. I don't believe I ever claimed we are squeaky clean. In fact I caveated quite cleary that I haven't heard of it all that much. Does my lack of knowledge on instances invalidate my comments? No. I believe the tentativeness of my statements and conjecture portrayed come through rather clearly. Did they teach reading comprehension and critical thinking on your home planet?
BloodBird Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.08.21 16:33:00 - [28] Originally by: Number 17 Being the richest nation, with the most atractive trade routes, the biggest market hub in the history of this universe. It is only normal that pirate activity is higher in Caldari space. Tama is just an example of an age long pirate infested system, with pirates now being baptised as "Gallente Militia". Such pirate entities, either freeagents or corporations have long been a cancer in our space. Where trading profits are so big that the "losses" to pirates still leave a good margin. Of course this will happen a lot less other nations underpopulated and impoverished systems. Wether they shoot a target one day, and change to another target the next, it makes no difference. Keep saying caldari militia is failing, maybe we'll all believe it and give up. Richest nation? Wrong, that would be the federation. The most active trade routes? I believe that the Federation, State and Republic shared that quite equally, at least up until recently, with the Amarr lagging slightly behind. The biggest market hub? Yeah, that is true, Jita is the most crowded trade hub, with Rens comming in as a close second. I actaully preffer Rens because it's not quite as many people there. Pirate activety is quite high in the low secs of the Federation and the Republic as well, thank you. Ever heard of Amamake? It's infamous for it's pirate population, even today. I'm not 100% sure with the Federation as this is where, ironicly, I've spent less time. But ask any Federal low-sec dweller and they can likely tell you exactly where the danger zones are located. The low security zones of the State is just as "underpopulated" and "imporverished" as any Federal, Republican, or Imperial low-security sector available. Before you try boasting about your glorious nation, please know a few facts. Facts like these: "I freely admit that I am not the most knowing person in the universe, however the above statements are made based on my travels and the things I have seen in said travels, I do not assume to be 100% correct and any man that knows for a fact that things are diffrent is free to refute my points." Caldari militia IS currently failing pilot, and lulling yourself into the illusion that they don't make things easier for us. I'd wish I could say "I hope you improve" but in all honestly I really don't.
Logoth Caldari	Posted - 2008.08.22 15:15:00 - [29] Hmm thats the best bit of Gallente proganda i have ever heard
BloodBird Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.08.22 15:31:00 - [30] Originally by: Logoth Hmm thats the best bit of Gallente proganda i have ever heard IF you reffered to my input above, then two things strike my mind: Firstly, I'm Intaki, not Gallente. While the term "Caldari" reffers to a way of life dominant in the State, "Gallente" reffers to the most widespread way of life in the Federation. These days they are not to big but the diffrences are still present, making "Intaki" as a culture diffrent from "Gallente". Secondly, I was not trying to spread propaganda. I am not like Archbishop, who holds sermons and thundering speeches to try and convince those diffrent from him how evil and failed the rest of us weak non-believers are. I stated FACTS based on my own point of view. Granted, in that case my "facts" are not facts at all but merely how I view things. For instance, the man I responded to seemed to thing that his beloved State was far supperior to others in many regards, hell, he even wanted people to think that the State has the worst pirate problem. I'm in opposition to his statements, for the reasons stated above. I was not spreading propaganda, I was refuting his "facts" with my own "facts" and even inviting those that might have studied the matter and who should know better to clarify this matter. Still, from a Caldari point of view, I can see what you mean. I was, after all, objecting to a Caldari patriot's claims and opposing them with my own. Still, I have other things I need to do, so I'll stop this here. Until some other time, Mr.Logoth. Sig source



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