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USE OF ALT SPIES IN FW

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regretfully gentle	Posted - 2008.08.20 16:32:00 - [1] Not to focus in on how dishonourable, lame, weak, pathetic etc etc... that this is... Cough Ripped Soul Cough... Using neutral alts to spy / recon systems such as Kamela... and to co-ordinate the hot dropping on no less than 5 Thanatos' on my 1 Thanatos (Just as well Minnies are so terrible at PvP so I actually survived) - I digress - I think the use of neutral alts in low sec for such a valuable role in FW is PATHETIC. I believe it detracts from the fun and enjoyment of FW, I don't believe for a second that Admins welcome the phenomenon and I want something done about it. Either let me blow the crap out of the guy without taking a serious standing hit (or getting killed by Amarr sentries!!), make it so its impossible for an alt who is neutral to be logged in on the same IP as a militia dude, or be logged in and involved in convo / chat with any FW member / chat... Leave the detail to the Admins. ALSO, point to mention, station camping is also a WEAK and honourless method of killing people... Fight fair! MAKE IT SO that all enemy sentries at stations FIRE on enemy FW members 30 seconds after they undock / fall out of warp.. Ideas?
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.20 16:40:00 - [2] First, I think neutrals should be a perfectly viable option for FW. Especially groups who are willing to take the sec hit. In real history, those guys were often 'freelancers', and considered 'pirates' by the enemy government. But they were paid commissions to cause havoc, gather intel, or disrupt the enemies navy's operations. So, a lesson from real life. Secondly, I do NOT like how trial account alts are used. Having used them myself (I still do, too, so don't think I'm all righteous), I believe that trial accounts should have severe limitations, not the LEAST of which is being restricted to hisec. Their rampant abuse as suicide ships and scouts is simply demeaning. Third, such things as 'honor' and 'morals' should never have any basis for the rule system in EvE. CCP should not try to hardcode morality in their game like every other simpering MMO out there. Not saying that this is what the op proposed, just stating that this is how I feel. But the lesson of life is, if your not willing to go to the depths of depravity that your enemy is willing to go, you are either going to lose, or your going to have to be that much better.
Tklaebo Wreckless Abandon Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.08.20 16:40:00 - [3] Well think of it from a diffrent angle. Do you think any part in a war send in a soldier wearing pink uniform with a stamp in their forehead that says I AM A SPY, to enemy territory? They gather information through diffrent channels, some beeing own soldiers in black ops or through other sources that can move unseen amongst or close to enemy lines without drawing attention ( that be sivilians, infiltrators amongst enemys etc etc) And sevral ppl use sevral accounts. To do what you propose will just be stupid. I use sevral accounts myselfe for diffrent work, and if one of my accounts is in a war then all should be?? That is not right. I use mine for peaceful things ( just to say that) And station camps are just a modern way to do a siege war. It has been done since man learned the art of war. Just call in more ppl to come from behind and undock, press them from 2 fronts. Never see limitations, only see opertunitys!
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.08.20 16:40:00 - [4] Originally by: regretfully gentle Ideas? The counter to lame tactics is always an even lamer tactic, or massive amounts of the same lame tactic applied to them. True story.
Winterblink Body Count Inc. The Requiem	Posted - 2008.08.20 16:42:00 - [5] Hey... it's real PVP. This happens in alliances all the time. Only thing you can do is either ignore it, or start doing it yourself.
Grarr Dexx Amarr Avenging United	Posted - 2008.08.20 16:42:00 - [6] Neutral? Lowsec? Kill that shit. Or are you afraid of the minimalsec hit on your maxed sec status?
Rifter Drifter Minmatar Greatly Reducing Inflation Every Fight	Posted - 2008.08.20 16:58:00 - [7] I AM IMPORTANT
Concorduck Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.20 17:05:00 - [8] Originally by: regretfully gentle Not to focus in on how dishonourable, lame, weak, pathetic etc etc... that this is... Cough Ripped Soul Cough... Using neutral alts to spy / recon systems such as Kamela... and to co-ordinate the hot dropping on no less than 5 Thanatos' on my 1 Thanatos (Just as well Minnies are so terrible at PvP so I actually survived) - I digress - I think the use of neutral alts in low sec for such a valuable role in FW is PATHETIC. I believe it detracts from the fun and enjoyment of FW, I don't believe for a second that Admins welcome the phenomenon and I want something done about it. Either let me blow the crap out of the guy without taking a serious standing hit (or getting killed by Amarr sentries!!), make it so its impossible for an alt who is neutral to be logged in on the same IP as a militia dude, or be logged in and involved in convo / chat with any FW member / chat... Leave the detail to the Admins. ALSO, point to mention, station camping is also a WEAK and honourless method of killing people... Fight fair! MAKE IT SO that all enemy sentries at stations FIRE on enemy FW members 30 seconds after they undock / fall out of warp.. Ideas? bolded the funny parts
Billy Sastard Amarr Life. Universe. Everything.	Posted - 2008.08.20 17:13:00 - [9] Neutrals have been used in wars for years preceeding the introduction of FW, why should factional wars be exempt from this tactic? EVE is about getting the upper hand and winning, not about being fair. You are in low sec space, you have the means to eliminate said neutrals, I suggest you do so. If you are afraid of screwing up your security status, I am sure you can find more than one person in your militia who has no qualms about it.
Jones Bones Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.08.20 17:20:00 - [10] - EVE is full of spies, get over it. - Hotdropping caps on caps is fine. - If you suspect a neutral is a spy, pop him. We do. - Station camping is weak. 30 sec timer is lame. But that's EVE. - Less tearz and x up in Amarr militia. And Minnies, bring moar dudez.

Ethen Bejorn Pestilent Industries Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.08.20 17:43:00 - [11] One character per account please!
Frenchie Spy	Posted - 2008.08.20 18:25:00 - [12] Mais oui, using spies is sooper dooper lame. Is almost as lame as someone asking for the sentry guns to do their work for them. Also: Alts Rulz.
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2008.08.20 18:32:00 - [13] Have a designated squad flying alongside your Thanatos that roast anyone looking funny at it, anyone!
Malek Thanatos	Posted - 2008.08.20 18:39:00 - [14] Ripped Soul is hilarious, he gets podded and comes back in like 30 seconds in another crow.
Furb Killer Gallente The first genesis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.08.20 18:44:00 - [15] Yes it is lame, no you cant do anything about it.
Kel Nissa	Posted - 2008.08.20 19:46:00 - [16] Funny - an amarr complaining about the minmatar alt spy's. Some of the minmatar alt's got nearly the same name as the amarr alt spy's and minmatars already wrote several petitions because of the absuive use of amarr alt spys. And thx for the hint that we should pop them. After killing the alt spy 20x within 30 minutes you will realize that its absolutly useless to pop them. It hurts your sec status, you get blinky and the alt just laugh at you.
Cailais Amarr VITOC	Posted - 2008.08.20 19:50:00 - [17] Spies!!!??? Underhand tactics???!!?? In EVE!!!!!!?? say its not so! C.
Seeing EyeDog	Posted - 2008.08.20 19:59:00 - [18] SPIEZ?!?! IN MY EVE?!?!?!?!?
Davina Braben	Posted - 2008.08.20 20:03:00 - [19] Originally by: regretfully gentle Not to focus in on how dishonourable, lame, weak, pathetic etc etc... that this is... Cough Ripped Soul Cough... Using neutral alts to spy / recon systems such as Kamela... and to co-ordinate the hot dropping on no less than 5 Thanatos' on my 1 Thanatos (Just as well Minnies are so terrible at PvP so I actually survived) - I digress - I think the use of neutral alts in low sec for such a valuable role in FW is PATHETIC. I believe it detracts from the fun and enjoyment of FW, I don't believe for a second that Admins welcome the phenomenon and I want something done about it. Either let me blow the crap out of the guy without taking a serious standing hit (or getting killed by Amarr sentries!!), make it so its impossible for an alt who is neutral to be logged in on the same IP as a militia dude, or be logged in and involved in convo / chat with any FW member / chat... Leave the detail to the Admins. ALSO, point to mention, station camping is also a WEAK and honourless method of killing people... Fight fair! MAKE IT SO that all enemy sentries at stations FIRE on enemy FW members 30 seconds after they undock / fall out of warp.. Ideas? Welcome to EVE.
Claudia Voltaire	Posted - 2008.08.20 20:09:00 - [20] Originally by: Winterblink Hey... it's real PVP. This happens in alliances all the time. Only thing you can do is either ignore it, or start doing it yourself. Or ignore the whole lot of it why you call them "spies" is beyond me, some guy sitting on 2 accounts attacking you on one screen and reporting everything he's looking at on the other to make things easy/ier would be classed as nothing but cheating in nearly every other game. Be honest, would you fancy playing command and conquer against somebody who could see your screen, would you duel somebody in an fps, quake whatever with the same situation? Not for me, eve is no different, as for encouraging it with the old can't beat um do it yourself, man, what a message that is

WAuter Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.20 20:33:00 - [21] do smt about stupid docking games
Pithecanthropus	Posted - 2008.08.20 20:46:00 - [22] We all knew the idea of FW would eventually fall to abuse... at least I knew. Keep in mind that even tho FW was put out to be the "beginners guide to pvp", its in fact turned out to be the "beginners guide to griefing". There is no pvp in Eve... that became clear long long ago when players insist on WIN or HIDE. I've engaged many to just watch them run. I've let people engage me, to just watch them run. I've fallen for tricks and scams, to just watch them yet still run. I don't understand it, but in the end, the times I do die... I chalk it up to either lag or a pure gank fest. Why people have joy in baiting solo pilots to then pounce on them with tech2 nano fitted uber styled ships... well that's beyond me. To each their own I suppose. As for spies... I am one, because the only viable option to spy games, is to spy back. And I think its HILARIOUS when they get upset and know full well there's a spy in channel, yet they do the same thing... OUTRAGEOUS!!
gpfwestie Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.08.20 21:05:00 - [23] Originally by: Grarr Dexx Neutral? Lowsec? Kill that shit. Or are you afraid of the minimalsec hit on your maxed sec status? You can't tank gate guns in a T1 Cruiser
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.08.20 21:13:00 - [24] Originally by: regretfully gentle make it so its impossible for an alt who is neutral to be logged in on the same IP as a militia dude, or be logged in and involved in convo / chat with any FW member / chat... Leave the detail to the Admins. I have a indy alt. He's sit's in another region of space entirely but I keep him and myself in all the same chats save for corp and FW. I'm in FW, he's not. So according to what your asking I would be limited to functionality because I have provided security for him while he mines but would not be able to do so if one or the other is forced offline or I would be limited in chat functions between my many chat windows and I would get half the information I get now because you have a issue with some random player who found a loophole.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.20 21:16:00 - [25] My alt runs off of a different machine. I only have two accounts, but I've been known to make a trial for ops. My ISP cycles my IP address, so banning my specific IP wouldn't work. Um ... you can't stop these kinds of things, sad to say.
Tellenta Gallente Invicta.	Posted - 2008.08.20 23:11:00 - [26] Originally by: Rifter Drifter I AM IMPORTANT I'm not
murder one Gallente Invincible Reason	Posted - 2008.08.20 23:16:00 - [27] Originally by: regretfully gentle Not to focus in on how dishonourable, lame, weak, pathetic etc etc... that this is... Cough Ripped Soul Cough... Using neutral alts to spy / recon systems such as Kamela... and to co-ordinate the hot dropping on no less than 5 Thanatos' on my 1 Thanatos (Just as well Minnies are so terrible at PvP so I actually survived) - I digress - I think the use of neutral alts in low sec for such a valuable role in FW is PATHETIC. I believe it detracts from the fun and enjoyment of FW, I don't believe for a second that Admins welcome the phenomenon and I want something done about it. Either let me blow the crap out of the guy without taking a serious standing hit (or getting killed by Amarr sentries!!), make it so its impossible for an alt who is neutral to be logged in on the same IP as a militia dude, or be logged in and involved in convo / chat with any FW member / chat... Leave the detail to the Admins. ALSO, point to mention, station camping is also a WEAK and honourless method of killing people... Fight fair! MAKE IT SO that all enemy sentries at stations FIRE on enemy FW members 30 seconds after they undock / fall out of warp.. Ideas? The nice thing about being a pirate is that you can shoot anyone, any time, any where. Sack up and go -10. FW is for the sissies that don't want to get their gay white pants dirty with a little blood.
Duncan Bannatyne The Sky Is The Limit	Posted - 2008.08.20 23:19:00 - [28] Let me sum it up for those tired people who are thinking tl;dr. "WHAAAAAAAAAAA" /thread.
SDragoon	Posted - 2008.08.20 23:29:00 - [29] People use neutral alts to get around the brokenness that is current local. Fix local and you fix the neutral alt problem.
kessah Suicidal Tendencies Ltd	Posted - 2008.08.20 23:31:00 - [30] Originally by: murder one The nice thing about being a pirate is that you can shoot anyone, any time, any where. Sack up and go -10. FW is for the sissies that don't want to get their gay white pants dirty with a little blood. That include me M? ^_^



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