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regretfully gentle
   |
Posted - 2008.08.20 16:32:00 -
[1]
Not to focus in on how dishonourable, lame, weak, pathetic etc etc... that this is... *Cough* Ripped Soul *Cough*...
Using neutral alts to spy / recon systems such as Kamela... and to co-ordinate the hot dropping on no less than 5 Thanatos' on my 1 Thanatos (Just as well Minnies are so terrible at PvP so I actually survived) - I digress - I think the use of neutral alts in low sec for such a valuable role in FW is PATHETIC.
I believe it detracts from the fun and enjoyment of FW, I don't believe for a second that Admins welcome the phenomenon and I want something done about it.
Either let me blow the crap out of the guy without taking a serious standing hit (or getting killed by Amarr sentries!!), make it so its impossible for an alt who is neutral to be logged in on the same IP as a militia dude, or be logged in and involved in convo / chat with any FW member / chat... Leave the detail to the Admins.
ALSO, point to mention, station camping is also a WEAK and honourless method of killing people... Fight fair! MAKE IT SO that all enemy sentries at stations FIRE on enemy FW members 30 seconds after they undock / fall out of warp..
Ideas? |
Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 16:40:00 -
[2]
First, I think neutrals should be a perfectly viable option for FW. Especially groups who are willing to take the sec hit. In real history, those guys were often 'freelancers', and considered 'pirates' by the enemy government. But they were paid commissions to cause havoc, gather intel, or disrupt the enemies navy's operations. So, a lesson from real life.
Secondly, I do NOT like how trial account alts are used. Having used them myself (I still do, too, so don't think I'm all righteous), I believe that trial accounts should have severe limitations, not the LEAST of which is being restricted to hisec. Their rampant abuse as suicide ships and scouts is simply demeaning.
Third, such things as 'honor' and 'morals' should never have any basis for the rule system in EvE. CCP should not try to hardcode morality in their game like every other simpering MMO out there. Not saying that this is what the op proposed, just stating that this is how I feel. But the lesson of life is, if your not willing to go to the depths of depravity that your enemy is willing to go, you are either going to lose, or your going to have to be that much better. |
Tklaebo
Wreckless Abandon
Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.08.20 16:40:00 -
[3]
Well think of it from a diffrent angle.
Do you think any part in a war send in a soldier wearing pink uniform with a stamp in their forehead that says I AM A SPY, to enemy territory?
They gather information through diffrent channels, some beeing own soldiers in black ops or through other sources that can move unseen amongst or close to enemy lines without drawing attention ( that be sivilians, infiltrators amongst enemys etc etc)
And sevral ppl use sevral accounts. To do what you propose will just be stupid. I use sevral accounts myselfe for diffrent work, and if one of my accounts is in a war then all should be?? That is not right. I use mine for peaceful things ( just to say that)
And station camps are just a modern way to do a siege war. It has been done since man learned the art of war.
Just call in more ppl to come from behind and undock, press them from 2 fronts.
Never see limitations, only see opertunitys! |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 16:40:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: regretfully gentle
Ideas?
The counter to lame tactics is always an even lamer tactic, or massive amounts of the same lame tactic applied to them.
True story.
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Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
The Requiem
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Posted - 2008.08.20 16:42:00 -
[5]
Hey... it's real PVP. This happens in alliances all the time. Only thing you can do is either ignore it, or start doing it yourself.
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr
Avenging United
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Posted - 2008.08.20 16:42:00 -
[6]
Neutral? Lowsec? Kill that shit. Or are you afraid of the minimalsec hit on your maxed sec status? |
Rifter Drifter
Minmatar
Greatly Reducing Inflation Every Fight
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Posted - 2008.08.20 16:58:00 -
[7]
I AM IMPORTANT
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Concorduck
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.08.20 17:05:00 -
[8]
Originally by: regretfully gentle
Not to focus in on how dishonourable, lame, weak, pathetic etc etc... that this is... *Cough* Ripped Soul *Cough*...
Using neutral alts to spy / recon systems such as Kamela... and to co-ordinate the hot dropping on no less than 5 Thanatos' on my 1 Thanatos (Just as well Minnies are so terrible at PvP so I actually survived) - I digress - I think the use of neutral alts in low sec for such a valuable role in FW is PATHETIC.
I believe it detracts from the fun and enjoyment of FW, I don't believe for a second that Admins welcome the phenomenon and I want something done about it.
Either let me blow the crap out of the guy without taking a serious standing hit (or getting killed by Amarr sentries!!), make it so its impossible for an alt who is neutral to be logged in on the same IP as a militia dude, or be logged in and involved in convo / chat with any FW member / chat... Leave the detail to the Admins.
ALSO, point to mention, station camping is also a WEAK and honourless method of killing people... Fight fair! MAKE IT SO that all enemy sentries at stations FIRE on enemy FW members 30 seconds after they undock / fall out of warp..
Ideas?
bolded the funny parts |
Billy Sastard
Amarr
Life. Universe. Everything.
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 17:13:00 -
[9]
Neutrals have been used in wars for years preceeding the introduction of FW, why should factional wars be exempt from this tactic? EVE is about getting the upper hand and winning, not about being fair. You are in low sec space, you have the means to eliminate said neutrals, I suggest you do so. If you are afraid of screwing up your security status, I am sure you can find more than one person in your militia who has no qualms about it. |
Jones Bones
Series of Tubes
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 17:20:00 -
[10]
- EVE is full of spies, get over it.
- Hotdropping caps on caps is fine.
- If you suspect a neutral is a spy, pop him. We do.
- Station camping is weak. 30 sec timer is lame. But that's EVE.
- Less tearz and x up in Amarr militia.
And Minnies, bring moar dudez. |
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Ethen Bejorn
Pestilent Industries Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.08.20 17:43:00 -
[11]
One character per account please! |
Frenchie Spy
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Posted - 2008.08.20 18:25:00 -
[12]
Mais oui, using spies is sooper dooper lame. Is almost as lame as someone asking for the sentry guns to do their work for them.
Also: Alts Rulz. |
Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2008.08.20 18:32:00 -
[13]
Have a designated squad flying alongside your Thanatos that roast anyone looking funny at it, anyone! |
Malek Thanatos
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Posted - 2008.08.20 18:39:00 -
[14]
Ripped Soul is hilarious, he gets podded and comes back in like 30 seconds in another crow. |
Furb Killer
Gallente
The first genesis
Veritas Immortalis
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 18:44:00 -
[15]
Yes it is lame, no you cant do anything about it. |
Kel Nissa
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 19:46:00 -
[16]
Funny - an amarr complaining about the minmatar alt spy's.
Some of the minmatar alt's got nearly the same name as the amarr alt spy's and minmatars already wrote several petitions because of the absuive use of amarr alt spys.
And thx for the hint that we should pop them. After killing the alt spy 20x within 30 minutes you will realize that its absolutly useless to pop them. It hurts your sec status, you get blinky and the alt just laugh at you. |
Cailais
Amarr
VITOC
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 19:50:00 -
[17]
Spies!!!???
Underhand tactics???!!??
In EVE!!!!!!??
say its not so!
C.
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Seeing EyeDog
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Posted - 2008.08.20 19:59:00 -
[18]
SPIEZ?!?! IN MY EVE?!?!?!?!? |
Davina Braben
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 20:03:00 -
[19]
Originally by: regretfully gentle
Not to focus in on how dishonourable, lame, weak, pathetic etc etc... that this is... *Cough* Ripped Soul *Cough*...
Using neutral alts to spy / recon systems such as Kamela... and to co-ordinate the hot dropping on no less than 5 Thanatos' on my 1 Thanatos (Just as well Minnies are so terrible at PvP so I actually survived) - I digress - I think the use of neutral alts in low sec for such a valuable role in FW is PATHETIC.
I believe it detracts from the fun and enjoyment of FW, I don't believe for a second that Admins welcome the phenomenon and I want something done about it.
Either let me blow the crap out of the guy without taking a serious standing hit (or getting killed by Amarr sentries!!), make it so its impossible for an alt who is neutral to be logged in on the same IP as a militia dude, or be logged in and involved in convo / chat with any FW member / chat... Leave the detail to the Admins.
ALSO, point to mention, station camping is also a WEAK and honourless method of killing people... Fight fair! MAKE IT SO that all enemy sentries at stations FIRE on enemy FW members 30 seconds after they undock / fall out of warp..
Ideas?
Welcome to EVE. |
Claudia Voltaire
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 20:09:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Winterblink
Hey... it's real PVP. This happens in alliances all the time. Only thing you can do is either ignore it, or start doing it yourself.
Or ignore the whole lot of it why you call them "spies" is beyond me, some guy sitting on 2 accounts attacking you on one screen and reporting everything he's looking at on the other to make things easy/ier would be classed as nothing but cheating in nearly every other game.
Be honest, would you fancy playing command and conquer against somebody who could see your screen, would you duel somebody in an fps, quake whatever with the same situation?
Not for me, eve is no different, as for encouraging it with the old can't beat um do it yourself, man, what a message that is
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WAuter
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.08.20 20:33:00 -
[21]
do smt about stupid docking games |
Pithecanthropus
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Posted - 2008.08.20 20:46:00 -
[22]
We all knew the idea of FW would eventually fall to abuse... at least I knew. Keep in mind that even tho FW was put out to be the "beginners guide to pvp", its in fact turned out to be the "beginners guide to griefing". There is no pvp in Eve... that became clear long long ago when players insist on WIN or HIDE. I've engaged many to just watch them run. I've let people engage me, to just watch them run. I've fallen for tricks and scams, to just watch them yet still run. I don't understand it, but in the end, the times I do die... I chalk it up to either lag or a pure gank fest. Why people have joy in baiting solo pilots to then pounce on them with tech2 nano fitted uber styled ships... well that's beyond me.
To each their own I suppose.
As for spies... I am one, because the only viable option to spy games, is to spy back. And I think its HILARIOUS when they get upset and know full well there's a spy in channel, yet they do the same thing... OUTRAGEOUS!!  |
gpfwestie
Gallente
Federal Defence Union
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 21:05:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Grarr Dexx
Neutral? Lowsec? Kill that shit. Or are you afraid of the minimalsec hit on your maxed sec status?
You can't tank gate guns in a T1 Cruiser |
Micheal Dietrich
Caldari
Terradyne Networks
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 21:13:00 -
[24]
Originally by: regretfully gentle
make it so its impossible for an alt who is neutral to be logged in on the same IP as a militia dude, or be logged in and involved in convo / chat with any FW member / chat... Leave the detail to the Admins.
I have a indy alt. He's sit's in another region of space entirely but I keep him and myself in all the same chats save for corp and FW. I'm in FW, he's not.
So according to what your asking I would be limited to functionality because I have provided security for him while he mines but would not be able to do so if one or the other is forced offline or
I would be limited in chat functions between my many chat windows and I would get half the information I get now because you have a issue with some random player who found a loophole. |
Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 21:16:00 -
[25]
My alt runs off of a different machine. I only have two accounts, but I've been known to make a trial for ops. My ISP cycles my IP address, so banning my specific IP wouldn't work.
Um ... you can't stop these kinds of things, sad to say. |
Tellenta
Gallente
Invicta.
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 23:11:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Rifter Drifter
I AM IMPORTANT
I'm not  |
murder one
Gallente
Invincible Reason
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 23:16:00 -
[27]
Originally by: regretfully gentle
Not to focus in on how dishonourable, lame, weak, pathetic etc etc... that this is... *Cough* Ripped Soul *Cough*...
Using neutral alts to spy / recon systems such as Kamela... and to co-ordinate the hot dropping on no less than 5 Thanatos' on my 1 Thanatos (Just as well Minnies are so terrible at PvP so I actually survived) - I digress - I think the use of neutral alts in low sec for such a valuable role in FW is PATHETIC.
I believe it detracts from the fun and enjoyment of FW, I don't believe for a second that Admins welcome the phenomenon and I want something done about it.
Either let me blow the crap out of the guy without taking a serious standing hit (or getting killed by Amarr sentries!!), make it so its impossible for an alt who is neutral to be logged in on the same IP as a militia dude, or be logged in and involved in convo / chat with any FW member / chat... Leave the detail to the Admins.
ALSO, point to mention, station camping is also a WEAK and honourless method of killing people... Fight fair! MAKE IT SO that all enemy sentries at stations FIRE on enemy FW members 30 seconds after they undock / fall out of warp..
Ideas?
The nice thing about being a pirate is that you can shoot anyone, any time, any where. Sack up and go -10. FW is for the sissies that don't want to get their gay white pants dirty with a little blood. |
Duncan Bannatyne
The Sky Is The Limit
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 23:19:00 -
[28]
Let me sum it up for those tired people who are thinking tl;dr.
"WHAAAAAAAAAAA"
/thread. |
SDragoon
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 23:29:00 -
[29]
People use neutral alts to get around the brokenness that is current local. Fix local and you fix the neutral alt problem. |
kessah
Suicidal Tendencies Ltd
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 23:31:00 -
[30]
Originally by: murder one
The nice thing about being a pirate is that you can shoot anyone, any time, any where. Sack up and go -10. FW is for the sissies that don't want to get their gay white pants dirty with a little blood.
That include me M? ^_^ |
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.08.20 23:36:00 -
[31]
Your in lowsec
Blow them up
OH SNIVEL MY SEC HITS WHINE WHINE
SKUNK |
Manuel Facturer
|
Posted - 2008.08.21 00:19:00 -
[32]
Being in the Amerr Militia with one of my accounts, I know the guy quite well - allways sitting outside Kamela station - now do I care? Probably not - he's there, if I blow him up, he'll just pick up another ship/log in with another alt and be back in 30 secs...
But what's the problem? We know he's there, he's a toxin alt, he reports 'intel' to them - so what? He knows that we know they know what ship just undocked...
Meh - that's even less "malicious" then having a cov ops/recon alt sitting outside station - at least we couldn't see that one...
Man - we all know toxin are so lame, they have to join something made to attract noobs into PvP and pick up against the most outnumbered militia to be able to not get owned and they even fail at that...
Really - the only thing that ****es me off is the fact that I even bother to post about the matter with an alts alt... |
Admiral Pelleon
Caldari
White Shadow Imperium
Burning Horizons
|
Posted - 2008.08.21 00:26:00 -
[33]
You had 5 carriers dropped on your one? Why were you using a carrier in FW in the first place? Pot, meet kettle. |
Rostran Targo
Minmatar
Kinda'Shujaa
|
Posted - 2008.08.21 01:16:00 -
[34]
Originally by: regretfully gentle
Not to focus in on how dishonourable, lame, weak, pathetic etc etc... that this is... *Cough* Ripped Soul *Cough*...
Using neutral alts to spy / recon systems such as Kamela... and to co-ordinate the hot dropping on no less than 5 Thanatos' on my 1 Thanatos (Just as well Minnies are so terrible at PvP so I actually survived) - I digress - I think the use of neutral alts in low sec for such a valuable role in FW is PATHETIC.
I believe it detracts from the fun and enjoyment of FW, I don't believe for a second that Admins welcome the phenomenon and I want something done about it.
Either let me blow the crap out of the guy without taking a serious standing hit (or getting killed by Amarr sentries!!), make it so its impossible for an alt who is neutral to be logged in on the same IP as a militia dude, or be logged in and involved in convo / chat with any FW member / chat... Leave the detail to the Admins.
ALSO, point to mention, station camping is also a WEAK and honourless method of killing people... Fight fair! MAKE IT SO that all enemy sentries at stations FIRE on enemy FW members 30 seconds after they undock / fall out of warp..
Ideas?
Eve isn't fair, either suck it up or go back to whiners of warcraft. |
Pr1ncess Alia
Caldari
Perkone
|
Posted - 2008.08.21 03:36:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Admiral Pelleon
Why were you using a carrier in FW in the first place? Pot, meet kettle.
why to camp stations and get noob bs kills of course
op = toolbox |
Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express
Burning Horizons
|
Posted - 2008.08.21 03:47:00 -
[36]
Alts have been used so long in EVE that its normal.
It would be hard to completely eliminate spying though. Even if CCP required all characters on the same account to be in the same faction, folks would just use a second account to spy.
|
Outsourced Techsupport
56k Dialup.
|
Posted - 2008.08.21 04:06:00 -
[37]
EVE is not a game of politics and espionage...
It's counterstrike with spaceships!
THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS IS THE PEWPEW!
To be honest we should remove loss, missions, corporations, etc.. and randomly sort teams so that we have 10v10 PVP fights, over and over, on instanced servers.
It has to be fair.  |
regretfully gentle
|
Posted - 2008.08.21 08:22:00 -
[38]
I use Carriers in FW because our 5 BS' consistently get ganked by 15 - 20 Toxin BS Noobs. I therefore need to be there in my Thanny to remote rep our guys so we can at least stay in the fight.
You see... We like pew pew... infact Amarr militia LOVE pew pew... but when its 5 BS Vs 15 + Enemy BS' because they are just to lame to fight on even close terms, we have no choice but to dock / warp out or get killed by shear weight of numbers.
The only viable alternative is to use carriers to remote rep our battleships so that we can get some pew pew.
Of course now Toxin's reaction is not to allow fair fights, so instead they hot drop 5 thantos' onto my one...
Yet I still stay out and remote rep my friendlies until the last one has escaped.
Alt spies suck ass. |
Sinder Ohm
Demonic Corp
G00DFELLAS
|
Posted - 2008.08.21 08:34:00 -
[39]
It has been like this for ages, it used everywhere from scouting out targets in empire war, to high level spies in 0.0 space holding alliances, get used to it. Its a sandbox and we can do what ever we want to do whenever we want to. Its Eve. |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Please Enter Password
|
Posted - 2008.08.21 08:36:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 21/08/2008 08:39:00
Originally by: Sinder Ohm
It has been like this for ages, it used everywhere from scouting out targets in empire war, to high level spies in 0.0 space holding alliances, get used to it. Its a sandbox and we can do what ever we want to do whenever we want to. Its Eve.
Would be fair enough to call it "sandbox gaming", if it weren't that alts are not RP and/or immersion generating elements. You wouldn't bring you, yourself and your other you to kick down a sandcastle that someone else built.
Sandbox gaming is "free to do what you want according to the gamerules", not, "free to do what you want with a group of people controlled by you".
When using alts, the concept of "you vs others" becomes "you and your minions vs others".
If i had my way, alts would be taken out completely. But, i'm not too bothered of their existence. |
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Volarius
D00M.
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.08.21 08:59:00 -
[41]
Wait a minute... someone used an alt character to spy on you and ur buddies and used that info to ambush you? o.0
Since when did EVE become such a cold and heartless place :( |
regretfully gentle
|
Posted - 2008.08.21 09:16:00 -
[42]
Alts are teh fail.
Remove all alts from the game.
Each account has one alt.
Each computer can only run 1 client.
If someone wants to go out and buy a new computer or 5 JUST to run multiple clients on Eve... then... well...
...there is a lot more to consider about that individual than simply his/her requirement for some serious head retuning!
I don't like alts and I am going to start a census of all eve members who want Eve to be rid of all alts and multiple clients!
ONE PERSON, ONE TOON!
That is the name of my new census.
ONE PERSON, ONE TOON!
Join me! |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Please Enter Password
|
Posted - 2008.08.21 09:27:00 -
[43]
RG i've advocated it a long long time ago, it's just a fact, live with it and don't let it bother you too much even if i do agree on the matter. |
Sergeant Spot
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.08.21 09:38:00 -
[44]
To the OP:
Thats the reason why anything not blue, green or purple in 0.0 is killed.
Many 0.0 players have no actual hostility to unknown players, its just a matter survival. If you don't kill the unknowns, your enemies "WILL" make you regret it.
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Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2008.08.21 09:53:00 -
[45]
Or... you could use that knowledge against them.
1) get your own crazy blob together
2) bait them into hot dropping your carrier again
3) ???
4) profit! \o/
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Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
|
Posted - 2008.08.21 10:01:00 -
[46]
All's fair in love and war...
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Danny Armstrong
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Posted - 2008.08.21 10:11:00 -
[47]
basicly you get outgunned and outmanouvred and then come to the forum whining?
either get some friends to back you up and try to outmanouver and outgun the enemy or go play another game |
The Wounded
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2008.08.21 10:13:00 -
[48]
Learn to live with the game mechanics or start using disposable frigs. |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Please Enter Password
|
Posted - 2008.08.21 10:15:00 -
[49]
While i do accept alts in play, some of the reasonings here are ridicilous
"You got outmaneuvered/outgunned", not the issue. Altism was.
"Learn to live with game mechanics", never should alts be a "game mechanic".
The fact of the matter is, simply put; "There are alts in EVE, it's not pretty, it's not very honorable, but it's how it is." |
Leinad tir
|
Posted - 2008.08.21 11:12:00 -
[50]
Originally by: regretfully gentle
Alts are teh fail.
Remove all alts from the game.
Each account has one alt.
Each computer can only run 1 client.
If someone wants to go out and buy a new computer or 5 JUST to run multiple clients on Eve... then... well...
...there is a lot more to consider about that individual than simply his/her requirement for some serious head retuning!
I don't like alts and I am going to start a census of all eve members who want Eve to be rid of all alts and multiple clients!
ONE PERSON, ONE TOON!
That is the name of my new census.
ONE PERSON, ONE TOON!
Join me!
ONE PERSON, ONE TOON = CPP Bankrupt
So this NEVER EVER is going to happen, just deal with it. |
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Mankirks Wife
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Posted - 2008.08.21 11:29:00 -
[51]
When I was doing FW, if even though a neutral was reconning us I'd shoot him (and usually annoy my FC in the processes but whatever).
My sec rating went from 3.5 to -1.something but you gotta do what you gotta do, I guess. |
Xeronn
Amarr
Ordo Drakonis
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.08.21 12:02:00 -
[52]
Originally by: regretfully gentle
I use Carriers in FW because our 5 BS' consistently get ganked by 15 - 20 Toxin BS Noobs. I therefore need to be there in my Thanny to remote rep our guys so we can at least stay in the fight.
You see... We like pew pew... infact Amarr militia LOVE pew pew... but when its 5 BS Vs 15 + Enemy BS' because they are just to lame to fight on even close terms, we have no choice but to dock / warp out or get killed by shear weight of numbers.
The only viable alternative is to use carriers to remote rep our battleships so that we can get some pew pew.
Of course now Toxin's reaction is not to allow fair fights, so instead they hot drop 5 thantos' onto my one...
Yet I still stay out and remote rep my friendlies until the last one has escaped.
Alt spies suck ass.
i am ashamed you are fighting for the Empire :(
|
ShadowMaiden
Amarr
Metal Machine
|
Posted - 2008.08.21 12:03:00 -
[53]
Originally by: regretfully gentle
Not to focus in on how dishonourable, lame, weak, pathetic etc etc... that this is... *Cough* Ripped Soul *Cough*...
Using neutral alts to spy / recon systems such as Kamela... and to co-ordinate the hot dropping on no less than 5 Thanatos' on my 1 Thanatos (Just as well Minnies are so terrible at PvP so I actually survived) - I digress - I think the use of neutral alts in low sec for such a valuable role in FW is PATHETIC.
I believe it detracts from the fun and enjoyment of FW, I don't believe for a second that Admins welcome the phenomenon and I want something done about it.
Either let me blow the crap out of the guy without taking a serious standing hit (or getting killed by Amarr sentries!!), make it so its impossible for an alt who is neutral to be logged in on the same IP as a militia dude, or be logged in and involved in convo / chat with any FW member / chat... Leave the detail to the Admins.
ALSO, point to mention, station camping is also a WEAK and honourless method of killing people... Fight fair! MAKE IT SO that all enemy sentries at stations FIRE on enemy FW members 30 seconds after they undock / fall out of warp..
Ideas?
Just one idea, gb2/wow.... |
Steve Hawkings
|
Posted - 2008.08.21 12:03:00 -
[54]
I think you whining about ths is PATHETIC |
Siberys
Gallente
Nebula Sharks
|
Posted - 2008.08.21 12:04:00 -
[55]
So all people in FW should walk into your traps.
NTY, even though I only played FW for 5 hours. |
heheheh
The Scope
|
Posted - 2008.08.21 12:05:00 -
[56]
Seems like someone should go back to wow. |
Iyanah
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
|
Posted - 2008.08.21 12:20:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Winterblink
Hey... it's real PVP. This happens in alliances all the time. Only thing you can do is either ignore it, or start doing it yourself.
Indeed, most alliances attempt to infiltrate their enemies to gather intel, it's only sensible that FW would be the same.
you want to counter spies? compartmentalise your intel, form a fleet, keep it small, keep it mobile, and keep it on the quiet. you ant your mates go off in a wolf-pack fleet, and it gets betrayed, you only have a dozen or so culprits, you go off in a blob fleet screaming to others to form up and go to system X, then you'll both A) never track your information leak and B) deserve to get ambushed for efectively painting a big "small thermal exhaust port here ==>" sign over your fleet.
infact, Spies are the most effective anti-blob weapon going. sure you'll have to converge your wolf packs to take down larger targets, but by that point, resistance should have been minimalised since you've been hunting and exterminating isolated ships before then.
So it won't affect a 200 man enemy gate camp, boo hoo, you ignore it, go around, hit somewhere else - they'll break off from the gate eventually, or they'll sit there and they won't be a threat to you - they can't send their lasers through the gate, now, can they? ;)
okay, didn't mean to let that get into the realms of a "advanced warfare for dummies" how to. my point was compartmentalised information == spies with nothing to do but say "we're already here, and there's alot of us" rather than "we're going to be here at this time in these numbers". elimination of the problem is not possible, but mitigating the damage sure is. |
Jones Bones
Series of Tubes
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Posted - 2008.08.21 12:20:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
The fact of the matter is, simply put; "There are alts in EVE, it's not pretty, it's not very honorable, but it's how it is."
My alt is very sexi, but honorable? She's a little ho. |
The Herrick
Gallente
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.08.21 12:32:00 -
[59]
Originally by: regretfully gentle
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New here, are you? |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Please Enter Password
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Posted - 2008.08.21 12:39:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Euriti
Stop whining, seriously, spying etc. is a part of the game, can't take it? Go back to PvE. It's a legit tactic. Be happy you don't live in 0.0.
If it was a profession, something you needed more then a bigger credit card to achieve, that it(if found out) would destroy your reputation, i'd welcome it with open arms.
Now it's like welcoming that odd person at parties who noone seems to know. |
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ShardowRhino
Caldari
Legion 0f The Damned
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Posted - 2008.08.21 13:01:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Outsourced Techsupport
EVE is not a game of politics and espionage...
It's counterstrike with spaceships!
THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS IS THE PEWPEW!
To be honest we should remove loss, missions, corporations, etc.. and randomly sort teams so that we have 10v10 PVP fights, over and over, on instanced servers.
It has to be fair.
actually if this was counterstrike people would be getting banned left and right.
As for the reason for the thread, well hes new to the idea of alts being used as spies, or did you not notice he mentioned FW instead of 0.0? Its unfortunate that people need to use spies but its been in the game a long time.
The problem is how do you actually root it out? You could have it so the gate guns don't attack amarr militia members that have attacked a neutral, that would work. But what about a neutral industrial minding his own bussiness? Hes going to complain against it. Theres no way other then for a GM to monitor neutrals in FW areas to determine if they are just a neutral or a spy alt.
You could always have trial account alts stay in empire space. That could work but it would only do so against trial accounts. Any player that wants a spy might make an alt on a 2nd account to sidestep this measure.
CCP could bar neutrals of all sorts from the new areas but the other side will simply plant their spy in a hostile player corp or even just the hostile militia npc corp. That gets them access to your militia channel instead of just being able to follow you around like rippedsoul.
There is no simple solution to the problem. CCP could simply reduce the sec hit taken when attacking a neutral in lowsec. Maybe just for the areas that FW is taking place. Personally I've had no problems attacking neutrals as long as its away from gates and stations. I could just stop when my sec hits a certain level.
The next thing they could do is create a timer for neutrals that get podded. Once the neutral is podded they have to wait X amount of time before they can undock if they respawn in lowsec. If the podded alt spawns in highsec then he can undock but cannot enter lowsec until the timer reaches zero.This could simply apply to the FW areas.
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Ntret
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Posted - 2008.08.21 13:02:00 -
[62]
I know this is bad, but can't resist
FYI I'm a spy |
Major PewPew
The Dark Horses
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Posted - 2008.08.21 14:04:00 -
[63]
Originally by: gpfwestie
Originally by: Grarr Dexx
Neutral? Lowsec? Kill that shit. Or are you afraid of the minimalsec hit on your maxed sec status?
You can't tank gate guns in a T1 Cruiser
If it bothers you so much, you'll get a BS that can tank gate guns. |
Luke Rygel
Amarr
Rygel Industries
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Posted - 2008.08.21 14:29:00 -
[64]
You don't think that REAL governments use spies in REAL wars where REAL people actually die and don't get to hop into a fresh new clone and go back for revenge?
Espionage has been part of warfare for thousands of years, there's nothing pathetic or underhanded about it.
Try some counter espionage or something and quit the damn whining already until we all have to line up in single file and trade hits one at a time while being stationary targets. |
Kel Nissa
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Posted - 2008.08.22 18:36:00 -
[65]
in real wars, the spy would be killed
in eve the proven spy is untouchable
thats the only problem with eve-spies
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Euriti
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.08.22 18:44:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Kel Nissa
in real wars, the spy would be killed
in eve the proven spy is untouchable
thats the only problem with eve-spies
In alliances you can kick said person out.
It's different for militias.
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Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.08.22 19:10:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Kel Nissa
in real wars, the spy would be killed
in eve the proven spy is untouchable
thats the only problem with eve-spies
There are many instances where real-world 'spies' are 'untouchable. They get a quick boot out of country, every thing is kept hush-hush. Nobody want's to let on that spies are still being used, and the offending country gets the evil eye.
Course, there are plenty of cases (or there have been) when spies have disappeared.
Quote:
If you like playing EvE, but don't like to PvP ...
Maybe it's time you recognize that you don't really like to play EvE.
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Atrei Capital
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Posted - 2008.08.22 19:12:00 -
[68]
I am writing to express my dismay and concern over Alt Spies's worthless theatrics. You see, I unequivocally believe that every time Alt Spies attempts to bamboozle people into believing that it is the way, the truth, and the light, I feel a surge of pure, unadulterated hatred flow through my body. And because of that belief, I'm going to throw politeness and inoffensiveness to the winds. In this letter, I'm going to be as rude and crude as I know how, to reinforce the point that what really irks me is that it has presented us with a Hobson's choice. Either we let it tell everyone else what to do or it'll cause (or at least contribute to) a variety of social ills. Okay, I've written enough for one letter, so let me just finish by saying that the vast majority of Alt Spies's pals spend most of their lives in one of two places -- the local pub or jail. |
Euriti
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.08.22 19:18:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Atrei Capital
I am writing to express my dismay and concern over Alt Spies's worthless theatrics. You see, I unequivocally believe that every time Alt Spies attempts to bamboozle people into believing that it is the way, the truth, and the light, I feel a surge of pure, unadulterated hatred flow through my body. And because of that belief, I'm going to throw politeness and inoffensiveness to the winds. In this letter, I'm going to be as rude and crude as I know how, to reinforce the point that what really irks me is that it has presented us with a Hobson's choice. Either we let it tell everyone else what to do or it'll cause (or at least contribute to) a variety of social ills. Okay, I've written enough for one letter, so let me just finish by saying that the vast majority of Alt Spies's pals spend most of their lives in one of two places -- the local pub or jail.
This post amused me to no end. Please keep them comming 
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2008.08.22 19:21:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: regretfully gentle
Ideas?
The counter to lame tactics is always an even lamer tactic, or massive amounts of the same lame tactic applied to them.
True story.
QFT!
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