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Fastest Way to More Missile DPS?

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Taku Sato	Posted - 2008.08.21 04:16:00 - [1] Hi, I just stepped into a Raven with 2.7 mil SP. I only have 330K sp in Missile Launcher Operation however. I was wondering what would be the optimum skill path to give me the most DPS the fastest in the Raven. Right now I have: Caldari BS 2 Cruise Missiles 2 Guided Missile Precision 1 Rapid Launch 2 Target Navigation Prediction 2 Warhead Upgrades 2
Hormone1971 Caldari silvestrus	Posted - 2008.08.21 04:44:00 - [2] Dude, Get out of the Raven and get back to a Drake. I have 4.3mill SP and still donÆt consider myself skilled enough to pilot the Raven WELL, notice how I say WELL. I could have trained a Raven ages ago but would not have the support skills to pilot it WELL. What level mission you doing?? If Level 3, then the Drake is much better. If Level 4, then I hope you can afford another Raven soon. Sorry, not trying to be harsh just passing the info I have learned.
Hormone1971 Caldari silvestrus	Posted - 2008.08.21 04:47:00 - [3] oh, and get all the skills to Minimum Level 3 or 4. this level involves very good return for the time spent. Level 5 takes ages and sometimes does not seem worth it to me.
Saietor Blackgreen The First Foundation SOLAR FLEET	Posted - 2008.08.21 05:13:00 - [4] Yep. You'll be much more efficient if you lay down your raven untill you have all support skills to 4, as well as all relevant gunnery skills to 4, and Caldari BS skill to 4. Progress from ship to ship this way, and you will be golden. Get into new ship with skills at 2 and you will fail.
Carniflex Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.08.21 05:44:00 - [5] Rapid launch 4, cruise missiles 3, caldary bs 3, cruise missile 4, warhead upgrades 3, caldary bs 4 should get you reasonable bang for your isk. Also I would reccomend training cyberneticks up enough to mount 3% RoF and cruise missile damage hardwires if you use your ship for missions. In addition to above ofc weapon upgrades 4 to mount T2 ballistic controls, altho you propably have already that one. Overall at approx 3 mil SP specialized character can run lev 4 missions reliably without warpouts in Raven. At least my alt was able to do so altho he was propably helped a lot by knowing all missions eyes closed. It was cap injector fueled cruise missile setup.
Taku Sato	Posted - 2008.08.21 07:09:00 - [6] Yeah I have Weapon Upgrades 5 already :) As for the naysayers who say "GO BACK TO THE DRAKE LOL," well EFT shows more DPS out of the box for me (I never trained BC or Heavy Missiles past 3), that's part of the reason why I stepped into the Raven right after I was able to fly it. I realize that with Guided Missile Precision so low, I won't actually get the DPS that EFT says, so I'd say that the Drake and the Raven are relatively even right now in mission complete time. My problem with the Drake was that I couldn't kill BS's without going through close to or over 100 missiles, even with 2 BCU's fitted. The Raven kills pesky BS's 100% faster. Anyway, sorry for the semi-rant. Thanks for the answer Carniflex. But I was wondering, Guided missile precision must fit into there somewhere if I'm planning on doing level 4's due to the amount of Frigs and Cruisers. Any idea how much and when I should train it and Target Navigation Prediction? Or should I go on feel ?
Carniflex Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.08.21 08:21:00 - [7] Originally by: Taku Sato Anyway, sorry for the semi-rant. Thanks for the answer Carniflex. But I was wondering, Guided missile precision must fit into there somewhere if I'm planning on doing level 4's due to the amount of Frigs and Cruisers. Any idea how much and when I should train it and Target Navigation Prediction? Or should I go on feel ? With that low SP amount lev 3 in both should be adequate. Later if you have few extra days to spare then lev 4 in guided missile precision, as thats offering you far greater effect than navigation prediction, as you do not see high enough speeds in missions to get significant damage reduction to your missiles from target speeds. Hardwire lowering your missile signature radius is also reasonable investment, if you can afford it, not too essential tho. Rof and damage ones should be higher priority ones as they serve you better. I myself use also rigs in my raven to lower missile signature (have signature of 147 m with faction cruise missiles) but I would not reccomend that with that low SP, as it tends to make fitting things somewhat tight. If you can pull it off however then those are good addition to any cruise raven. I run my Raven on cap injector.
Opertone Caldari SIEGE. The Border Patrol	Posted - 2008.08.21 11:31:00 - [8] torpedo raven is a good idea when you have 2 mill in missiles... you need caldari BS 4 bombardment 5, projection 4 to make it work... only 2 weeks of training and you are there Torps deliver huge DPS to battleships, drones can be used against interceptors and small stuff torps require the use of target painter
Tractory	Posted - 2008.08.21 11:33:00 - [9] EFT nodoubt does report better damage than the drake. Issues you are more likely to encounter are crap resists and a sig radius the size of a planet compared to the drake. This means a drake will take far more damage before you have to warp out, while in a raven you may end up aligning as soon as you aggro the room.
Carniflex Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.08.21 12:06:00 - [10] Originally by: Tractory EFT nodoubt does report better damage than the drake. Issues you are more likely to encounter are crap resists and a sig radius the size of a planet compared to the drake. This means a drake will take far more damage before you have to warp out, while in a raven you may end up aligning as soon as you aggro the room. Drake signature is not low enough to avoid any significant amount of incoming damage in lev 4 missions. It has as good tank as XL boosted Raven (and thats passive tank ie lasting forever) and approx 1/3 rd less damage than cruise raven. OP however lacks 'good' skills for that platform propably and for low SP pilot cap injector fueled Raven will offer a lot better performance in lev 4 missions than Drake. Not as safe ofc as Drake but isk/h one is earning is to large degree dependant on the killing speed of those NPC's in those missions. Higher damage potential has additional advantage that if one will cut down incoming dps fast enough it is not needed to warp out.
Taku Sato	Posted - 2008.08.21 21:14:00 - [11] Well I've noticed that the Drake had a slightly better tank in the day or so that I have been flying the Raven, I'm fitted out with a Booster, T2 Hardeners, and a T2 X-L SB, so I think my tank is going to be ok for the moment. Again, thanks Carniflex for suggesting the cap booster. I at first tried to use passive capacitor regen and a Large Shield Booster, but I found that even when kiting, the tank would eventually fail and I had to warp out (thankfully, nothing has scrammed me at the same time that the tank was failing, I was walking on a thin line). Now that I have the X-L SB and Large Cap recharger, I can tank the hard parts pretty easily. What is your favorite Cap Booster Charge? 200? 400? 800? I've found that the more passive Cap recharge modules I have on (the fewer slots dedicated to tank, yeah, but) the lower cap booster I have to use to get the boost I want. Those 800's are damn huge in volume . Anyone have the recommended passive cap boosters and active cap boosters setup? I've found people who put Flux Coils in all of the lows and can permarun X-L's, but then they gimp their DPS...
Kalmanaka Caldari Artifex Dynamics	Posted - 2008.08.21 21:27:00 - [12] Originally by: Taku Sato As for the naysayers who say "GO BACK TO THE DRAKE LOL," well EFT shows more DPS out of the box for me EFT will also show more DPS out of the box for a Dreadnought but that doesn't mean it's better for running missions. EFT is for squeezing the most you can into your CPU and PG, not for comparing ships like this. One drake can finish a lvl2 mission faster than 2 ravens can because cruise missiles do terrible damage to small ships. In general, Drakes are for lvl3's and Ravens are for lvl 4's. Drakes take too long to kill the big ships in lvl 4's, and ravens take too long to kill the small ones in lvl 3's.
Rarkal Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.08.21 22:24:00 - [13] Edited by: Rarkal on 21/08/2008 22:24:15 Originally by: Kalmanaka Originally by: Taku Sato As for the naysayers who say "GO BACK TO THE DRAKE LOL," well EFT shows more DPS out of the box for me EFT will also show more DPS out of the box for a Dreadnought but that doesn't mean it's better for running missions. EFT is for squeezing the most you can into your CPU and PG, not for comparing ships like this. One drake can finish a lvl2 mission faster than 2 ravens can because cruise missiles do terrible damage to small ships. In general, Drakes are for lvl3's and Ravens are for lvl 4's. Drakes take too long to kill the big ships in lvl 4's, and ravens take too long to kill the small ones in lvl 3's. The two ravens wouldn't fire though, warp in, get aggro and release 10 hammerhead II's
Carniflex Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.08.22 08:08:00 - [14] Originally by: Taku Sato What is your favorite Cap Booster Charge? 200? 400? 800? I've found that the more passive Cap recharge modules I have on (the fewer slots dedicated to tank, yeah, but) the lower cap booster I have to use to get the boost I want. Those 800's are damn huge in volume . Anyone have the recommended passive cap boosters and active cap boosters setup? I've found people who put Flux Coils in all of the lows and can permarun X-L's, but then they gimp their DPS... I use x800 charges (15 in cargo hold, 5 in cap injector). Leaves enough room for approx 3000 missiles that are more than enough to do any current lev 4 mission. I do not use cap recharge modules however. XL booster, 3 hardeners, injector and 4x BCU's plus signal amp II in lows. For me last remaining mid slot is afterburner altho if you have low skills either shield boost amp or 4th hardener might be more sensible. 3x BCU's in lows are in reality already pretty ok. 4th T2 BCU gives you approx 5..6 % dps increase. Not bad but not too essential if you need that slot for survival, say damage control II if you need little bit of extra tank. It is not stacking with your hardeners altho it's restiance bonus on shields is relatively minor. Will give you a bit more time in hull tho if you are going down. When I was still learning the ropes for lev 4 missions damage control saved my skin few times (escaping with less than 60% hull left).
Atlas Elestra Titan Mining LLC	Posted - 2008.08.22 12:20:00 - [15] I've just started into 4s in my Drake and I like it. With Faction Ammo I do more DPS in the Drake than I do in a Raven I had a Raven for 1 mission. After taking out the mission while flying to the cargo unit for the mission loot I needed to turn in I got Scambled and killed by another Player. Some level 4 areas become fishing ponds for Solo PvPers. A Raven is a juicer fish. Bigger loot, plus they are usually Active Tanks that need Cap after a battle in a mission Cap tends to be low and the the Raven a bit more open. While a Drake isn't as attractive of a target... I take down battleships quick enough... Not really sure how many missles I go thru per ship.. Oh another thing that can help your DPS is a Warhead Calcification Rig. they're about 14-15mil. Drawback is they increase the CPU needs of the Weapons. So I'd check your fit in the EFT before installing the rig. ôSalvage is as much an art as building the ship itself. We take rubble and make rigs, now that takes Talent.ö
Taku Sato	Posted - 2008.08.22 20:53:00 - [16] Hows this for a setup? VS Angels. Should tank most every level 4. 3 BCS's seem to be the sweet spot.
Grarr Dexx Amarr Avenging United	Posted - 2008.08.22 22:35:00 - [17] Unless you intend to buy a second raven with 3x ccc I wouldn't put any other rigs on it; it doesn't make that much of a difference and might save you a lot of cap charges. Though, if you read other threads, you would know that capboosting in missions is a bit stupid. I would go back to farming lvl3 ae's and blockades in your drake until you can atleast get your cap skills and your damage skills into shape, honestly.
Carniflex Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.08.23 05:51:00 - [18] Originally by: Grarr Dexx Unless you intend to buy a second raven with 3x ccc I wouldn't put any other rigs on it; it doesn't make that much of a difference and might save you a lot of cap charges. Though, if you read other threads, you would know that capboosting in missions is a bit stupid. I would go back to farming lvl3 ae's and blockades in your drake until you can atleast get your cap skills and your damage skills into shape, honestly. I would argue that using cap injector allows one to get higher isk/h even after taking into account price of cap charges than using one of those 'permaboost' setups. You do not need to tank from DT to DT. Dead rats do no damage and it's not your tank that kills them but your damage you can put on them. CCC rigs are nice lazy pick, but they do not make you do missions faster, only help you tank better. But whatever floats the boat. Just note that not everybody permatanks, as some people do missions for isk and those people tend to optimize their setups for best isk/h they can get. Meaning often missionrunning style called 'gank tank', ie using ones weapons to cut down incoming dps fast and fitting just enough tank to last thru missions without warpouts. Even that low SP character can and will earn better isk/h doing lev 4 missions in injector fueled raven than napping thru lev 3 missions in drake.
Nocturnal Avenger Black Plague. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.23 11:30:00 - [19] Originally by: Taku Sato I was wondering what would be the optimum skill path to give me the most DPS the fastest in the Raven. Right now I have: Quick and dirty solution: get all skill to level 1, then level 2,..., level 5 (except missile spec and warhead (unless you are REALLY dedicated)) - Carebear Pirate -
ZephyrLexx Caldari Earth Federation Space Forces	Posted - 2008.08.24 01:18:00 - [20] Originally by: Hormone1971 Dude, Get out of the Raven and get back to a Drake. I have 4.3mill SP and still donÆt consider myself skilled enough to pilot the Raven WELL, notice how I say WELL. I could have trained a Raven ages ago but would not have the support skills to pilot it WELL. What level mission you doing?? If Level 3, then the Drake is much better. If Level 4, then I hope you can afford another Raven soon. Sorry, not trying to be harsh just passing the info I have learned. I have 3mil SP and i'm running level 4's all day in my raven, racking up lots of isk and LP. sorry, but spending 4 months in a drake just to get the skills so people can say I can "effectively" pilot a raven,? lol. when you pay my subscription, then tell me to stick to a lower class ship or not.
Nai Weil Caldari Tupperware Party	Posted - 2008.08.24 11:33:00 - [21] I don't know why people are so defensive when people recommend a Drake for level III - it's not saying "you're not good enough for a Raven", but merely "Drake does better". I fly Caldari space level IIIs in a Raven (saw it cheap, and my existing Amarr BC wasn't very efficient in Guristas missions), and frequently wonder if I would be much better off in a Drake. By the time I realised I would, I already hit standings level IVs, so there's no point in buying a Drake now when I'll be doing level IVs in a couple days (pending completion of a couple skills). The reasons I realised (read: "felt" if you prefer) a Drake was superior to a Raven for level III missions. Firstly, at level III, there are almost no Battleship enemies, meaning I don't need to use Cruise Missiles. Cruise are best for Battleships, when the Heavy Missiles struggle to do enough damage. Cruise Missiles are also less efficient against Battlecruisers and Cruisers (frigates and destroyers, of course, are drone food) due to the smaller signature radius of the enemy versus the huge signature radius of the Cruise Missile, resulting in a lot of wasted damage and wasted ISK. My Raven used 6 Heavy Missile Launchers throughout its level III career. Secondly, following from the first reason, the Drake has 7 missile launchers hardpoints, meaning I can fire 7 HMs instead of 6. If using Heavy Missiles, the Drake does more DPS than the Raven. Drake also has bonuses to Heavy Missiles, while the Cruise Missile bonuses of the Raven were completely wasted everytime I fired a Scourge or Widowmaker. This, of course, only applies for level IIIs. At level IV you definitely want to use a Raven as Cruise Missiles are the way to go. For the OP, it should only take a week or so to get all the support missile skills to III, which is pretty okay. Cruise Missiles and Caldari Battleship might take longer, but those are not so essential. Tactical Shield Manipulation IV would be good as you can then use nifty T2 hardeners, but in the meantime T1 hardeners do a fair job. If you have the standings for level IV, I recommend just training up the skills for a few days and go for the level IVs, using your Raven for level IIIs in the meantime. If you're stuck with level IIIs for a couple weeks or so, then a Drake will run the level IIIs more efficiently.
Thrass Titan Industries Technology Team Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:14:00 - [22] there is no need for emotional responses to logical situations. the people that you appealed to for help are really trying to give you advice they probably wish they received when they were on the lower side of SP's. in a nutshell, get all of the skills you listed to IV...it wont really take that long but will make a huge improvement in DPS. your tanking abilities are another issue...
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.08.27 18:08:00 - [23] Originally by: Taku Sato Hows this for a setup? If you are fighting angles, why did you waste a rig slot on an EM hardener? You are problably better off swapping that for SMC or another CCC. In your low slot, you will likely do better with a PDU instead of the CPR. You might also want to swap the Cap Booster for something else.
Taku Sato	Posted - 2008.08.27 22:05:00 - [24] Edited by: Taku Sato on 27/08/2008 22:06:21 Originally by: Matalino Originally by: Taku Sato Hows this for a setup? If you are fighting angles, why did you waste a rig slot on an EM hardener? You are problably better off swapping that for SMC or another CCC. In your low slot, you will likely do better with a PDU instead of the CPR. You might also want to swap the Cap Booster for something else. High bounty Angels use EM torps, and I can't afford to have multiple rigged ravens atm. Edit: The cap booster has done me well, letting me maintain my tank for longer, while saving low slots for damage mods.
Disco Flint The Flaming Sideburn's	Posted - 2008.08.28 13:43:00 - [25] Originally by: Carniflex Originally by: Grarr Dexx Unless you intend to buy a second raven with 3x ccc I wouldn't put any other rigs on it; it doesn't make that much of a difference and might save you a lot of cap charges. Though, if you read other threads, you would know that capboosting in missions is a bit stupid. I would go back to farming lvl3 ae's and blockades in your drake until you can atleast get your cap skills and your damage skills into shape, honestly. I would argue that using cap injector allows one to get higher isk/h even after taking into account price of cap charges than using one of those 'permaboost' setups. You do not need to tank from DT to DT. Dead rats do no damage and it's not your tank that kills them but your damage you can put on them. CCC rigs are nice lazy pick, but they do not make you do missions faster, only help you tank better. But whatever floats the boat. Just note that not everybody permatanks, as some people do missions for isk and those people tend to optimize their setups for best isk/h they can get. Meaning often missionrunning style called 'gank tank', ie using ones weapons to cut down incoming dps fast and fitting just enough tank to last thru missions without warpouts. Even that low SP character can and will earn better isk/h doing lev 4 missions in injector fueled raven than napping thru lev 3 missions in drake.
Mara Rinn Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.28 15:17:00 - [26] Edited by: Mara Rinn on 28/08/2008 15:25:04 I run level 4s in a drake with an alt flying a drone boat/salvager. I have the skills for a T2 tank, and between us we have the DPS equivalent to a person who has just stepped into a Raven, with bare minimum skills for cruise missiles. I just can't afford to lose a Raven yet, so I don't fly it. My advice to people who have the ISK is move to the Raven for level 4 missions. Keep the Drake for level 3s or the hard missions where you bring friends along who can remote shield tank for you.

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