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Jozica	Posted - 2008.08.21 08:34:00 - [1] I choosed amarr character because everyone said they are overpowered! (and i asked nicely stating that i'll do mostly mission- 80% of replies...you cant go wrong with amarr) I must be doing something wrong then If they are so good why the hell am i flying caldari ships as amarr character (with more armor and gunnery skills than shield and missiles). And i fly them pretty damn good considering that all my amarr ships blew up - lvl 1, and 2 are almost doable in shuttle nwm that - lvl 3, prophecy did good till i didnt find a mission that eat my cap...boom (ok dps was bad anyway), bought binger all excited cuz i did more dps, mission with some scrambler frigs broke my notsogood tank...boom (started to get annoyed with this new trend of mine) ...THEN i trained caldari and few shield, missile skills (I read about it in cap draining mission info and) bought drake, BAAAM total surprise easy mode no chanca at all any lvl3 mission could even hurt me. - lvl 4 , bought apoc and was doing last step of 5 step mission killing gallente and minmatar thing (you know the one that they warp in thru gate every 4mins or so) was doing good till last warpin ok i warped out cuz my cap was empty and warped back in right in the middle of all, what a joy my ship is no more. Took my overpovered drake into that mission just for kicks cuz i was mad of recent loss and guess what...jup drake survived (what i thought is) suicide. GTFO! Is it worth for me to inverst more skills in amarr ships or should i just forget guns and armor and train for raven instead? Missioning in amarr space only. Thanks
Shocker Steg Amarr Crusaders of Darkness	Posted - 2008.08.21 08:40:00 - [2] simple.. drake is overpowered as mission tank :) amarr is really more skillpoint intensive.. but when you do get your skillpoints up good then it can be as good as going easy mode with a drake.. As i saw one signature here on the boards: Quote: Playing Amarr is playing Eve on Hard mode
Scathain Caldari	Posted - 2008.08.21 08:43:00 - [3] Originally by: Shocker Steg simple.. drake is overpowered as mission tank :) amarr is really more skillpoint intensive.. but when you do get your skillpoints up good then it can be as good as going easy mode with a drake.. As i saw one signature here on the boards: Quote: Playing Amarr is playing Eve on Hard mode That quote is old as time, it was back when no one flew amarr except the PIE inc. Pilots. Amarr are the top race in pvp at the moment, missions can be harder because you cant passive tank. the mission was The New Frontier with the neuts, best bet is to use capless weapons, or fit smart bombs to deal with all the drones. That mission is one of the hardest in the game, and you need very high gunnery and drone skills to do missions as Amarr but you can breeze though them once you do.
Saietor Blackgreen The First Foundation SOLAR FLEET	Posted - 2008.08.21 08:44:00 - [4] Amarr are awesome, its just drake is a PvE monster by nature. It's both bonuses are almost ideal for missions, weapon system is great against mindless slowish NPCs. But maaan, isnt it boring? Gunnery ships are so much more fun, with all the transversal and range management? as well as capacitor management for Amarr ships.
Pan Crastus Anti-Metagaming League	Posted - 2008.08.21 08:51:00 - [5] Originally by: Shocker Steg simple.. drake is overpowered as mission tank :) amarr is really more skillpoint intensive.. but when you do get your skillpoints up good then it can be as good as going easy mode with a drake.. LOL, the good old EVE euphemism for "underpowered": "skillpoint intensive".
Romulus Maximus Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.08.21 09:11:00 - [6] Caldari are the best race for PVE. Largly due to the fact they need no cap to fire. Also they can passive tank, which also needs no cap. You cant passive tank armour, only buffer tank which isnt the same. No matter how many SP you have for Amarr, you will always need cap to rep and fire lasers. So while they can be very good for PVE, they have the downside that some nos / neuts can cripple them. Obviously you can adjust setups for more cap recharge etc, but the underlying issue is still there.
Wil Smithx Minmatar Suns Of Korhal	Posted - 2008.08.21 09:33:00 - [7] Originally by: Romulus Maximus Caldari are the best race for PVE. Largly due to the fact they need no cap to fire. Also they can passive tank, which also needs no cap. You cant passive tank armour, only buffer tank which isnt the same. No matter how many SP you have for Amarr, you will always need cap to rep and fire lasers. So while they can be very good for PVE, they have the downside that some nos / neuts can cripple them. Obviously you can adjust setups for more cap recharge etc, but the underlying issue is still there. Well nos and neut pretty much cripples everything, lol, even passive tanks sweat when all their hardeners shut down, but with the coming speed nerf, who knows they may be damned good in pvp with missiles. I guess we wait and see though.
Romulus Maximus Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.08.21 09:37:00 - [8] Originally by: Wil Smithx even passive tanks sweat when all their hardeners shut down Then its not truely a passiv etank now is it As Pottsey has shown, its very capable to have a Drake totally passive tank pretty big dps.
Ripley Wisdomseeker	Posted - 2008.08.21 09:49:00 - [9] I fly amarr bs since having about 3.2 mio Sps only and while I had problems with the hard missions (AE, WC or New Frontiers) in the beginning, I can now (about 5.6 mio SPs) do ALL missions easily. And it's not all about SPs... a basic idea about what's going on in the mission and how to fit your ship accordingly is very helpful, too!
Tamoko Damage Unlimited Inc INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.08.21 09:50:00 - [10] Edited by: Tamoko on 21/08/2008 09:55:10 Can't believe how much complete tripe there is in this thread. So let me get this straight: you screwed up and got your ass shot to shit in an Amarr ship and suddenly the race sucks? Errm... okay. Assuming the 5/5 was Enemies Abound, Amarr ships are definitely the worst choice, there. The EM damage is terrible against one of the ship types. Aside from that, an Amarr ship will outperform a drake or raven every. single. time. Unless the pilot is a complete knob. If you like flying Amarr ships, work on getting a full T2 armor tank, if you haven't already. Turn down Worlds Collide (At least the last part of it). I don't even run any of it, so I don't butcher my standings with Gallente. If you don't have T2 pulses and resultingly can't use Scorch L, fit beams, learn how transverse velocity works if you don't know already, to keep your DPS high on orbiting objects. An Amarr ship effortlessly out DPSes (and thus finishes mission faster with less damage tanked) a Raven, and should easily out DPS a drake with only four guns fitted. But you have to know what you're doing. If you don't, ask.

The Djego Minmatar merovinger inc	Posted - 2008.08.21 10:08:00 - [11] Originally by: Pan Crastus Originally by: Shocker Steg simple.. drake is overpowered as mission tank :) amarr is really more skillpoint intensive.. but when you do get your skillpoints up good then it can be as good as going easy mode with a drake.. LOL, the good old EVE euphemism for "underpowered": "skillpoint intensive". Yeah quite funny, but true. Drakes are very easy to skill, and Tank good(passive Tanking is broken in general and very boring to break in PVP). Amarr Ships are not that bad, a bit harder but not bad. Harbinger and Abaddon outdo plain Drakes or Ravens if you not Mission against Minmatar/Angels or Guristas, where the high EM Resistances(realy never get the point on this, cause it only hits Amarr Ships because nobody else would use EM here). Might be sound bad but you simply need more Skills to make them work(also rewarping in a Blob of NPCs is not very clever anyway). Im using a Abaddon and It¦s a fantastic Ship(started to fly it around 8 M SP with my 2. Char).
Jozica	Posted - 2008.08.21 10:09:00 - [12] Originally by: Tamoko Edited by: Tamoko on 21/08/2008 09:55:10 Can't believe how much complete tripe there is in this thread. So let me get this straight: you screwed up and got your ass shot to shit in an Amarr ship and suddenly the race sucks? Errm... okay. Assuming the 5/5 was Enemies Abound, Amarr ships are definitely the worst choice, there. The EM damage is terrible against one of the ship types. Aside from that, an Amarr ship will outperform a drake or raven every. single. time. Unless the pilot is a complete knob. If you like flying Amarr ships, work on getting a full T2 armor tank, if you haven't already. Turn down Worlds Collide (At least the last part of it). I don't even run any of it, so I don't butcher my standings with Gallente. If you don't have T2 pulses and resultingly can't use Scorch L, fit beams, learn how transverse velocity works if you don't know already, to keep your DPS high on orbiting objects. An Amarr ship effortlessly out DPSes (and thus finishes mission faster with less damage tanked) a Raven, and should easily out DPS a drake with only four guns fitted. But you have to know what you're doing. If you don't, ask. Your mood is sort of nonfriendly tbh, but nwm that. Your post however is excelent, this is what i was looking for :) Thank you It will take me 100+ days to train pulses T2 but at least i know it's worth it now I must admit getting blowned in BS with T2 tank and finishing it in BCS no T2 missiles here(BCS and lvl4?!?) made me wonder if training amarr,pulses has sense at all.
Tamoko Damage Unlimited Inc INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.08.21 10:29:00 - [13] Edited by: Tamoko on 21/08/2008 10:43:42 Quote: Your mood is sort of nonfriendly tbh, but nwm that. Your post however is excelent, this is what i was looking for :) Thank you It will take me 100+ days to train pulses T2 but at least i know it's worth it now I must admit getting blowned in BS with T2 tank and finishing it in BCS no T2 missiles here(BCS and lvl4?!?) made me wonder if training amarr,pulses has sense at all. For what it's worth, the tripe I was refering to was fools swearing up and down that Caldari are the best PVE race. Give me a break. Also, training Pulses is a very good idea, but not the only option. I've got 17M SP in Amarr PVE skills, up to and including Paladin skills, but I still can't use T2 pulses, and it doesn't limit me at all. The pally performs superbly with Tachyons, even T1 Tachs. PS. If you insist on doing Enemies Abound 5/5 again, just stick to the Drake if that worked for you. Couldn't hurt to keep a pocket drake around for that one mission. No matter how many SP you put into Amarr, it wont do a damn against those awful fleet tempests with like 85% EM resist and a big shield tank.
Damned Force Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.08.21 10:39:00 - [14] Edited by: Damned Force on 21/08/2008 10:46:51 Originally by: Jozica I choosed amarr character because everyone said they are overpowered! (and i asked nicely stating that i'll do mostly mission- 80% of replies...you cant go wrong with amarr) I must be doing something wrong then If they are so good why the hell am i flying caldari ships as amarr character (with more armor and gunnery skills than shield and missiles). And i fly them pretty damn good considering that all my amarr ships blew up - lvl 1, and 2 are almost doable in shuttle nwm that - lvl 3, prophecy did good till i didnt find a mission that eat my cap...boom (ok dps was bad anyway), bought binger all excited cuz i did more dps, mission with some scrambler frigs broke my notsogood tank...boom (started to get annoyed with this new trend of mine) ...THEN i trained caldari and few shield, missile skills (I read about it in cap draining mission info and) bought drake, BAAAM total surprise easy mode no chanca at all any lvl3 mission could even hurt me. - lvl 4 , bought apoc and was doing last step of 5 step mission killing gallente and minmatar thing (you know the one that they warp in thru gate every 4mins or so) was doing good till last warpin ok i warped out cuz my cap was empty and warped back in right in the middle of all, what a joy my ship is no more. Took my overpovered drake into that mission just for kicks cuz i was mad of recent loss and guess what...jup drake survived (what i thought is) suicide. GTFO! Is it worth for me to inverst more skills in amarr ships or should i just forget guns and armor and train for raven instead? Missioning in amarr space only. Thanks What a Troll If u mean the mission EA 5 of 5 is no way u made that in your drake alone if u warped in middle of everything. even if u make from begining. The key of this mission is to kill enemy fast, so the dps of the NPC's dont increase too much. The absolute tankfitted drakes dps is between 0 and absolute crap, so u get high dps from the enemy. And the incoming dps in this mission can go up to 3000. No way a drake can tank such dps..... not if it not cost at least 10 time your apoc.. Even a t2 rigged drake with 3 estamel's Invul cant tank 3000 dps P.S. and use the abaddon for missions
Miyamoto Uroki Caldari KuhSchubsKlan	Posted - 2008.08.21 10:44:00 - [15] Caldari ships like drake and raven are easier so start with, agreed. But with good skillpoints (and good choice of skills to train...) any race have decent pve ships. Just take the marauders for example. They are all very good for missione. Or the more cheaper versions like Maelstrom or Dominix..uhm the amarr I dunno. Maybe Apoc. But Paladin is shiny anyways ^^
Ravn Silverclaw Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.08.21 10:49:00 - [16] From what I can read here, the missions you had truoble with were New frontier lvl 3 mission with neut towers (I lost my first myrmidon there), and Enemies abound 5/5 lvl 4 mission. These are by many classed as some of the hardest missions in Eve atm along with a few others. I will agree that Caldari are by far the easiest race to do missions with and also the fastest to skill up for doing lvl 4 missions. I'm currently running two accounts and I do lvl 4 missions on both depending on the mood of the day really. My main account is gallente, and the weapon of choice here is the domi for those days where you really just want to watch some tv and have a laugh on TS not really paying that much attention to the game itself. My other account is Caldari, fielding a more or less faction/t2 fitted Golem. This is my prefered mission runner when my pvp fund is runnning low. I would not call this ship fast and easy to skill for though. For PvE, I've never really tried the Amarr. I have tried and regularily use my armor tanking Domi for missions though, and I guess that can be compared as far as the tanking goes. I can understand that you could have trouble with some missions as Amarr, especially with cap as they use more of it then the other races. This makes the capacitor/engineering skills more important for Amarr, if not the most important. I don't get the impression that the Amarr are unsuitable for missions or underpowered in general. I will at some point at least be trying the Paladin since I'm cross training to Amarr anyway for PvP. Slightly offtopic, but PvP was mentioned briefly in here. This is the part of Eve that attracted me to the game initially and led me to choose Gallente in the first place. Seeing the game evolve though I more then likely would have choosen Amarr had I started the game today with knowlege I have now. This is also the reason my easy mode mission runner Caldari is cross training to Amarr for both PvP and somewhat for PvE as well. Amarr have imo the best answer to the roaming nano gang as well as having good fleet snipers and by far the best dreadnaught.
Tamoko Damage Unlimited Inc INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.08.21 10:49:00 - [17] Originally by: Damned Force What a Troll Err... what, now? Funny you should use that word, in light of the fact that your entire post is inflammatory and intended to cause grief.
Tamoko Damage Unlimited Inc INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.08.21 10:54:00 - [18] Originally by: Ravn Silverclaw I will agree that Caldari are ... the fastest to skill up for doing lvl 4 missions. We're back to this again, are we? Good lord, mate, get your head checked. My Abaddon more than doubled my alt's Raven DPS with a hopelessly unproportionate amount of SP in favour of the missile slugger. There is no way Caldari are the fastest at missions. If it wasn't for Minmatar, I'd say they are the slowest at running missions with very little guilt.
Furb Killer Gallente The first genesis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.08.21 10:58:00 - [19] No it is exactly right and you would have known it if you would have actually read what he wrote. (and i dont believe you do double the dps but that is something else). Caldari are the fastest route to lvl 4 missions is what he wrote. And that is true. A raven can do them with much less SP than your abaddon.
Damned Force Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.08.21 11:00:00 - [20] Originally by: Tamoko Originally by: Damned Force What a Troll Err... what, now? Funny you should use that word, in light of the fact that your entire post is inflammatory and intended to cause grief. Cmon if u dont see that just a whine about passive tank u do something wrong.... Yes, drake have a good passive tank, but thats all.....good for PVE? Good, but i would not use because do very slow the missions And again..... there is no chance he soloed the EA 5/5 alone if he warped in middle of full aggro in a drake alone...no chance, the incoming dps is too high

Tamoko Damage Unlimited Inc INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.08.21 11:02:00 - [21] Originally by: Furb Killer No it is exactly right and you would have known it if you would have actually read what he wrote. (and i dont believe you do double the dps but that is something else). Caldari are the fastest route to lvl 4 missions is what he wrote. And that is true. A raven can do them with much less SP than your abaddon. Bleh, alright. Case of my eyes seeing what they want to see, perhaps. My apologies When worded the way you've put it, I actually tend to agree. Caldari are easy street to getting your foot in the door, but reach their ceiling earlier than the other races. (Granted, Golem is the exception, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms). Again, I'm sorry.
Zaqar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.08.21 11:09:00 - [22] Originally by: Romulus Maximus Originally by: Wil Smithx even passive tanks sweat when all their hardeners shut down Then its not truely a passiv etank now is it It's not full-passive, but passive tank generally means extenders and no shieldbooster. Whether or not you use active hardeners, its still a passive tank, IMO.
Ravn Silverclaw Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.08.21 11:10:00 - [23] Edited by: Ravn Silverclaw on 21/08/2008 11:13:12 Originally by: Tamoko Edited by: Tamoko on 21/08/2008 10:56:03 Originally by: Ravn Silverclaw I will agree that Caldari are ... the fastest to skill up for doing lvl 4 missions. We're back to this again, are we? Good lord, mate, get your head checked. My Abaddon more than doubled my alt's Raven DPS with a hopelessly unproportionate amount of SP in favour of the missile slugger. There is no way Caldari are the fastest at missions. If it wasn't for Minmatar, I'd say they are the slowest at running missions with very little guilt. There's more flagrant ignorance wrapped up in this post than there is on the whole first page of COAD. What I wrote was "the fastest to skill up for doing lvl 4 missions", not the fastest to do lvl 4 missions. I won't even go into that. I will leave that up to everyone else and their personal opinions. I'm sure it would make an interesting **ing contest for the Golem, Kronos, Paladin and Vargur. I only mention these as I'm not interested in the faction battleships for missions after trying a Marauder. I must warn you all, Marauders have that effect on you. Originally by:** Tamoko Originally by: Furb Killer No it is exactly right and you would have known it if you would have actually read what he wrote. (and i dont believe you do double the dps but that is something else). Caldari are the fastest route to lvl 4 missions is what he wrote. And that is true. A raven can do them with much less SP than your abaddon. Bleh, alright. Case of my eyes seeing what they want to see, perhaps. My apologies When worded the way you've put it, I actually tend to agree. Caldari are easy street to getting your foot in the door, but reach their ceiling earlier than the other races. (Granted, Golem is the exception, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms). Again, I'm sorry. You answered before I had the chance to finish my post. Apology accepted btw It might be that my english is suffering from not being my primary language though.
Holy Lowlander Aurora Acclivitous Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.08.21 11:25:00 - [24] if your a mission char , forget amarr and train caldari . if you are planning to pewpew , train amarr :)
Ravn Silverclaw Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.08.21 11:30:00 - [25] Originally by: Holy Lowlander if your a mission char , forget amarr and train caldari . if you are planning to pewpew , train amarr :) I wouldn't write off Amarr that easily in PvE. I've seen what a Nightmare can do in missions and I don't expect the Paladin to be much of a dissapointment either. I have yet to try them myself though.
Furb Killer Gallente The first genesis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.08.21 11:37:00 - [26] Against blood raiders/sanshas amarr got the best ships. Against everything else a golem/cnr is probably the best, but then still amarr ships do fine. But you have to watch your range and transversal, instead of just firing those missiles.
Tamoko Damage Unlimited Inc INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.08.21 11:40:00 - [27] Originally by: Ravn Silverclaw Originally by: Holy Lowlander if your a mission char , forget amarr and train caldari . if you are planning to pewpew , train amarr :) I wouldn't write off Amarr that easily in PvE. I've seen what a Nightmare can do in missions and I don't expect the Paladin to be much of a dissapointment either. I have yet to try them myself though. Granted, you don't want to be flying a Paladin against Guristas. Guristas "The Assault" is one of the worst missions I've ever had to do. But vs Mercs, Sanshas, Bloods, Drones, et al, Amarr ships are unbelievably good.
Jozica	Posted - 2008.08.21 12:35:00 - [28] Originally by: Damned Force Edited by: Damned Force on 21/08/2008 10:46:51 What a Troll If u mean the mission EA 5 of 5 is no way u made that in your drake alone if u warped in middle of everything. even if u make from begining. The key of this mission is to kill enemy fast, so the dps of the NPC's dont increase too much. The absolute tankfitted drakes dps is between 0 and absolute crap, so u get high dps from the enemy. And the incoming dps in this mission can go up to 3000. No way a drake can tank such dps..... not if it not cost at least 10 time your apoc.. Even a t2 rigged drake with 3 estamel's Invul cant tank 3000 dps P.S. and use the abaddon for missions I just need to clarify this or ppl might think i lie. As i said i warped in in my apoc the first time, survived 4 or 5 waves not 100% sure and I killed most of npcs except a shitload of battleships mostly darkans (dunno exact name)and last 5 frigs which obviusly is why i poped. I lured them away from starting point but when i arived the 2nd time frigs got to me to fast and i thought i'll kill em since BS were far away, how wrong i was since they shoot from far far faaar away... When i warped in with my drake, killed frigs almost instantly and 2 minnie BS also before i warped out to recharge, warped in again just to find out my dps will take me 5 hours to pop darkans and i warped out to buy some navy explosive missiles (bought way to few tbh). Then it was all a game of patience and warping in out to recharge, it was slow ye, absolutly not worth the isk but i'm the type of person who can't refuse a mission especially if i alredy accepted it. Drake fit that i had on that mission [Drake, Drake PvE] Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Ballistic Control System II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Photon Scattering Field II Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II Shield Recharger II Domination Heavy Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Havoc Heavy Missile Domination Heavy Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Havoc Heavy Missile Domination Heavy Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Havoc Heavy Missile Domination Heavy Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Havoc Heavy Missile Domination Heavy Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Havoc Heavy Missile Domination Heavy Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Havoc Heavy Missile Domination Heavy Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Havoc Heavy Missile Drone Link Augmentor I Core Defence Field Purger I Core Defence Field Purger I Bay Loading Accelerator I Hobgoblin II x5 P.S. Doing it from begining probably would be easier.
Jozica	Posted - 2008.08.21 12:41:00 - [29] Originally by: Damned Force Originally by: Tamoko Originally by: Damned Force What a Troll Err... what, now? Funny you should use that word, in light of the fact that your entire post is inflammatory and intended to cause grief. Cmon if u dont see that just a whine about passive tank u do something wrong.... Yes, drake have a good passive tank, but thats all.....good for PVE? Good, but i would not use because do very slow the missions And again..... there is no chance he soloed the EA 5/5 alone if he warped in middle of full aggro in a drake alone...no chance, the incoming dps is too high And again i wasn't all passive with hardeners, but thats not the point. No chance? meh i why do i even bother. Bottom line is: No mater how hard i try to leave them alone they always pull me back in.
Xanos Blackpaw Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2008.08.21 13:18:00 - [30] Originally by: Tamoko Edited by: Tamoko on 21/08/2008 09:55:10 Can't believe how much complete tripe there is in this thread. So let me get this straight: you screwed up and got your ass shot to shit in an Amarr ship and suddenly the race sucks? Errm... okay. Assuming the 5/5 was Enemies Abound, Amarr ships are definitely the worst choice, there. The EM damage is terrible against one of the ship types. Aside from that, an Amarr ship will outperform a drake or raven every. single. time. Unless the pilot is a complete knob. If you like flying Amarr ships, work on getting a full T2 armor tank, if you haven't already. Turn down Worlds Collide (At least the last part of it). I don't even run any of it, so I don't butcher my standings with Gallente. If you don't have T2 pulses and resultingly can't use Scorch L, fit beams, learn how transverse velocity works if you don't know already, to keep your DPS high on orbiting objects. An Amarr ship effortlessly out DPSes (and thus finishes mission faster with less damage tanked) a Raven, and should easily out DPS a drake with only four guns fitted. But you have to know what you're doing. If you don't, ask. this! listen to this. i have 2 characters. one caldari focused which i started with(this one) and one amarr. i ran missions with a raven for quite a while and then when my amarr character got T2 pulses i switched to try missions in the apoc. i run missions ATELASt 50% faster in the apoc than the raven...just dont pick angel and gurista(hate fighting them anyway...damn jammers) missions...



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