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Pinga Chan
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Posted - 2008.08.21 11:15:00 -
[1]
There was one moment yesterday evening when there was 900k units for sale and only buy orders for 60k or so
when I was seriously considering dumping my entire supply at least 10k below all else. What's up with you consumers,
have you all stopped building using our heavily inflated materials?!
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Feronia
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.08.21 12:28:00 -
[2]
You could sell now... or wait 2 months and sell at 50k.
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Arthor Dark
Gallente
N.A.S.A.
Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2008.08.21 14:43:00 -
[3]
what's in two months? |
Feronia
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.08.21 15:13:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Arthor Dark
what's in two months?
Nothing special, but the Dysprosium bubble is about to burst anytime soon. It will take a few months before we're at bottom prices again.
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Clair Bear
Coalition of Nations
Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.08.21 15:35:00 -
[5]
Show me your enormous stash of high run low ME invention prints you've stocked up on in preparation for said bubble bursting and I'll believe you.
It's a cycle, like any other. t2 manufacture is not highly profitable, so people have switched to doing something else. In time t2 prices will go up slightly, component prices will go down slightly, and people will dogpile on invention again. |
Shadarle
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Posted - 2008.08.21 15:43:00 -
[6]
What exactly is the point of this post? |
Arthor Dark
Gallente
N.A.S.A.
Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2008.08.21 16:35:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Shadarle
What exactly is the point of this post?
What exactly is the point of this post? |
Dranakolys
Gallente
Theurgy
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Posted - 2008.08.21 16:48:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Arthor Dark
Originally by: Shadarle
What exactly is the point of this post?
What exactly is the point of this post?
Combating stupidity is my guess |
Sophie Daigneau
Risky Advanced Production Enterprises
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.21 18:51:00 -
[9]
For those of you who were totally oblivious to what was going on, RA took half the dyspro moons in all of Eve and held onto a significant portion of their output in order to manipulate the price up over the past year. Now that RA is breaking up, they are selling off their stockpile and the price is returning to what the true price of dyspro should have been for the past year.
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Feronia
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.08.22 09:59:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Clair Bear
Show me your enormous stash of high run low ME invention prints you've stocked up on in preparation for said bubble bursting and I'll believe you.
Huh ?
Originally by: Clair Bear
It's a cycle, like any other. t2 manufacture is not highly profitable, so people have switched to doing something else. In time t2 prices will go up slightly, component prices will go down slightly, and people will dogpile on invention again.
Dysprosium hasn't been following the normal market rules of supply/demand in a long time. It wasn't behaving cyclical. With the recent events this will be the case again (to a certain degree).
Originally by: Sophie Daigneau
For those of you who were totally oblivious to what was going on, RA took half the dyspro moons in all of Eve and held onto a significant portion of their output in order to manipulate the price up over the past year. Now that RA is breaking up, they are selling off their stockpile and the price is returning to what the true price of dyspro should have been for the past year.
This explains it all.
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Pinga Chan
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Posted - 2008.08.25 16:07:00 -
[11]
Thanks all for your valuable thoughts and time. I ended up
dumping my holdings as you well can see today.
Fly safe and don't turn your back to anyone. |
Carniflex
Caldari
StarHunt
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.08.26 06:20:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Clair Bear
Show me your enormous stash of high run low ME invention prints you've stocked up on in preparation for said bubble bursting and I'll believe you.
I have approx 400 of them, does this count ? Altho I'm not sitting on them in the hopes of seeing cheap moon mins but more bcos they are not reasonable to produce atm and one character can produce only so fast if he is making his own components. Sadly my army of alts are not skilled enough to help me produce :p
Anyway. Back on topic. As far as RED's go they have been 'breaking up' or 'dead' for better part of last 3 years if you believe forums. Altho it's not impossible. Afterall FIX was also 'dying' for 4 years before it decided to go on their separate ways at last. In case of RED most of their members are behind language barrier and while this will not prevent catastrophic meltdown it can ground at least some tensions.
Overall this topic smells like price manipulation attempt. It is limited supply moon mineral and I highly doubt that it would not reach market in one form or another as 'community service' to keep price for other producers up.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.08.26 06:25:00 -
[13]
The volume hasn't shifted dramatically, it's just a natural downwards oscillation, it'll pick up again soon enough.
_
SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.08.26 14:10:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Akita T
The volume hasn't shifted dramatically, it's just a natural downwards oscillation, it'll pick up again soon enough.
Pretty much this, look at the trends in the other 20% of the mats for t2 market and you'll notice the gradual slides to compensate for prices. |
Petyr Baelich
Taggart Transdimensional
Virtue of Selfishness
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Posted - 2008.08.26 21:59:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Feronia
Dysprosium hasn't been following the normal market rules of supply/demand in a long time. It wasn't behaving cyclical. With the recent events this will be the case again (to a certain degree).
Prices will always follow supply/demand curves in a free market no matter what external influences are applied. A thing is only worth what someone will pay for it.
Originally by: Sophie Daigneau
For those of you who were totally oblivious to what was going on, RA took half the dyspro moons in all of Eve and held onto a significant portion of their output in order to manipulate the price up over the past year. Now that RA is breaking up, they are selling off their stockpile and the price is returning to what the true price of dyspro should have been for the past year.
This explains it all.
Deprive the market of supply and the price will raise where demand is a constant. Increase supply and the price will fall where demand is a constant. Very very basic Macro E. There is no "should have been", or "correct" price for anything in a free market. A thing is worth only what someone will pay for it.
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Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
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Posted - 2008.08.26 22:17:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Petyr Baelich
Very very basic Macro E. There is no "should have been", or "correct" price for anything in a free market.
Exactly the point.
What RA did was creating a monopoly and quite the contrary of a free market. So all that 'very very basic ME' is worth zip, because the base assumptions are all wrong.
And of course you can say that something should have a certain price - the price it should have if there would be a free market. And with various models and theories you can even calculate that price to a certain degree.
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Petyr Baelich
Taggart Transdimensional
Virtue of Selfishness
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Posted - 2008.08.26 23:32:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Gnulpie
Originally by: Petyr Baelich
Very very basic Macro E. There is no "should have been", or "correct" price for anything in a free market.
Exactly the point.
What RA did was creating a monopoly and quite the contrary of a free market. So all that 'very very basic ME' is worth zip, because the base assumptions are all wrong.
And of course you can say that something should have a certain price - the price it should have if there would be a free market. And with various models and theories you can even calculate that price to a certain degree.
Wrong wrong wrong. If someone voluntarily witholds their supply from the market it is STILL a free market. If a third party comes in and says: "You can only sell X units of your product per month", or "You must buy X units of this product per month", or "You must sell your product for X, and no more (or less)", (and they have the power to enforce those statements) THEN you no longer have a free market.
You cannot fix prices in a free market. There is no correct or incorrect price. The price of an item will be whatever someone is willing to pay for it. That's it. Even if someone controls all the dysprosium in the game and refuses to sell it, it's still a free market.
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Kushion
Anti Sweden Defense Force
Virtue of Selfishness
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Posted - 2008.08.26 23:38:00 -
[18]
Psh, what does Petyr know? A market isn't free unless a regulatory body tells you how much to sell your stuff for. You see, if CCP made RA sell Dyspro at X price, then it is a free market. Get it?
--
Taggart Transdimensional corporation - | Capitalism | Objectivism | 0.0 | No taxes | No mandatory ops | Join channel TAGGART for more |
Petyr Baelich
Taggart Transdimensional
Virtue of Selfishness
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Posted - 2008.08.26 23:44:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kushion
Psh, what does Petyr know? A market isn't free unless a regulatory body tells you how much to sell your stuff for. You see, if CCP made RA sell Dyspro at X price, then it is a free market. Get it?
Exactly. Also, a market is free if you mine it yourself.
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Clair Bear
Coalition of Nations
Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.08.26 23:47:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Petyr Baelich
You cannot fix prices in a free market. There is no correct or incorrect price.
I don't know where to even begin on this. Starting with different demand for luxuries vs necessities and the basic pricing vs demand graph.
You are arguing against the existence of price manipulation and price fixing. Both being realities in game and out of game.
Oh yeah: not a free market. You're welcome to *try* and do anything vaguely e-peeny without t2. It's not voluntary to fit t2, it's downright compulsory.
Carniflex, re: Russian language barrier - I duno man, pretty much every Russian speaker I've come across on the 'net can communicate in a lucid, understandable fashion. In this game and others. Unlike some native speakers of English -- many of whom communicate about as well as severe stroke victims.
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Petyr Baelich
Taggart Transdimensional
Virtue of Selfishness
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Posted - 2008.08.27 00:42:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Clair Bear
Originally by: Petyr Baelich
You cannot fix prices in a free market. There is no correct or incorrect price.
I don't know where to even begin on this. Starting with different demand for luxuries vs necessities and the basic pricing vs demand graph.
You are arguing against the existence of price manipulation and price fixing. Both being realities in game and out of game.
Read the whole post and the others in the series, please. My argument is precisely that manipulation does not change the nature of the market. It is still free so long as no one is using force as a means
of arbitration. In the last post I was using the word fix as in: "To repair".
Originally by: Clair Bear
Oh yeah: not a free market. You're welcome to *try* and do anything vaguely e-peeny without t2. It's not voluntary to fit t2, it's downright compulsory.
Which is why it's in no one's interest to destroy T2 production, merely to try to control it. A free market does not mean that everything is freely available to all if they decide they want or need it. A free market does not mean that everyone is guaranteed a living. A free market means that force is not used in any way as a means of arbitration. You are free to sell your goods or horde them, buy or not buy. Pay what you're willing to pay and sell for whatever price you wish to sell for. Competition will create an equilibrium over time, and this equilibrium can only be meaningfully upset by changes to the actual supply or demand of that item.
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Clair Bear
Coalition of Nations
Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.08.28 02:10:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Petyr Baelich
Competition will create an equilibrium over time, and this equilibrium can only be meaningfully upset by changes to the actual supply or demand of that item.
This is like saying t2 manufacturers pre-invention would eventually wise up and start competing rather than colluding in keeping t2 profits sky high. There is a limited supply of useful moons -- much like t2 bpos pre invention. They are in the hands of people who know what they are doing. It's not easy to take these moons away, and anyone who does manage to do so would simply copy the successful hoarding and price fixing strategy.
Competition does not apply in the instances when it's not practical (or possible).
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Petyr Baelich
Taggart Transdimensional
Virtue of Selfishness
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Posted - 2008.09.03 16:10:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Clair Bear
Originally by: Petyr Baelich
Competition will create an equilibrium over time, and this equilibrium can only be meaningfully upset by changes to the actual supply or demand of that item.
This is like saying t2 manufacturers pre-invention would eventually wise up and start competing rather than colluding in keeping t2 profits sky high. There is a limited supply of useful moons -- much like t2 bpos pre invention. They are in the hands of people who know what they are doing. It's not easy to take these moons away, and anyone who does manage to do so would simply copy the successful hoarding and price fixing strategy.
Competition does not apply in the instances when it's not practical (or possible).
Competition is any activity which attempts to maximize your own profit relative to the profit of others. That you do not recognise all of these activities is to your own detriment, not theirs.
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Tobin Shalim
Vulcan Foundry
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Posted - 2008.09.05 04:49:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Clair Bear
Show me your enormous stash of high run low ME invention prints you've stocked up on in preparation for said bubble bursting and I'll believe you.
It's a cycle, like any other. t2 manufacture is not highly profitable, so people have switched to doing something else. In time t2 prices will go up slightly, component prices will go down slightly, and people will dogpile on invention again.
Actually, if anything, Dyspro prices should start rising soon. With the breakup of BoB, and the current shakeup of the southern political situation, I expect the supply/source of Dyspro to shrink down dramatically which will in turn drive up the price.
-----
Originally by: Haakkon
I feel a great deal of patriotism at being a part of Goonswarm. We've accomplished great things... we're just mainly jerks about it
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Kwint Sommer
Caldari
XERCORE
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Posted - 2008.09.05 05:47:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Tobin Shalim
Actually, if anything, Dyspro prices should start rising soon. With the breakup of BoB....
Ha??? 
Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals |
Verite Rendition
Caldari
F.R.E.E. Explorer
Elitist Cowards
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Posted - 2008.09.05 11:45:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
Originally by: Tobin Shalim
Actually, if anything, Dyspro prices should start rising soon. With the breakup of BoB....
Ha???
I'm assuming he means RA.
----
FREE Explorer
Lead Megalomanic
EVE Null-Sec Player Influence Map
http://dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/Veritefw/FWinf |
Tasko Pal
Heron Corporation
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Posted - 2008.09.05 17:53:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Petyr Baelich
You cannot fix prices in a free market. There is no correct or incorrect price. The price of an item will be whatever someone is willing to pay for it. That's it. Even if someone controls all the dysprosium in the game and refuses to sell it, it's still a free market.
Incorrect on the remark about fixing prices. If you have a monopoly (assuming the other side is mostly competitive), then you can fix price, but you can't fix both price and volume. Petyr, you are correct in that this remains a free market.
The smart monopolist will focus on maximizing profit rather than on setting price at a particular value. In practice, that means the price will be somewhat higher than if the monopolist is replaced with pure competition. But it doesn't mean that either price is the somehow the "correct" price, another point on which you are right.
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Tasko Pal
Heron Corporation
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Posted - 2008.09.05 17:57:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Tasko Pal on 05/09/2008 17:57:38
Originally by: Gnulpie
Originally by: Petyr Baelich
Very very basic Macro E. There is no "should have been", or "correct" price for anything in a free market.
Exactly the point.
What RA did was creating a monopoly and quite the contrary of a free market. So all that 'very very basic ME' is worth zip, because the base assumptions are all wrong.
And of course you can say that something should have a certain price - the price it should have if there would be a free market. And with various models and theories you can even calculate that price to a certain degree.
Two things, first, Petyr remains right. The presence of a monopoly doesn't rule out a free market. Second, RA did not have a monopoly. They didn't control almost all of the supply. Sure there was a oligopoly situation where most of the supply was controlled by a few, but that's different due to the presence of some competition.
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