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Atsuko Ratu
Caldari
VSP Corp.
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Posted - 2008.08.22 22:23:00 -
[31]
tbh, cap use bonus really isn't that useful, unless you plan on perma running 6-7 multispecs 
I'm all for swapping that for something else, but to be double honest, theres nothing you could make it unless you wanna redesign the ship. It has no dps (2 launchers lawl), no drone bay, and its low and mid slots are all used for its ewar.
I'd suggest boosting damps and polishing the pilgrim/post-nerf rapier before you go nerfing the falcon.
Also, swap damp optimal and falloff values before you give it a optimal range bonus, lawls.
while your falcon pilot warps off in a pod, baffled at why his FC Borat can't learn to not pyramid-quote.
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Asuka SoryuLangley
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Posted - 2008.08.23 16:53:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: BiggestT
Well suggest a dif. bonus..
guns? useless
tank? lol
drones? lol
speed? Also useless
Those bonuses are useless fot the other recons too, but they got them! Do you really think that a damage bonus is usefull on an arazu? Or a Rof bonus on the Rapier?
They are recons, they should all be good at 1 task, not good for damage, and they clearly are not, so those bonuses are useless and giving focused bonuses on the falcon make it unbalanced.
Originally by: Srioghal moDhream
To combat a falcon, just use eccm.
If you don't want to use eccm, too bad that's your decision.
ECCM are not worh fitting them.
Seriously, try them, even with 3 techII you will still be a blind pigeon.
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Omerta Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.08.23 17:15:00 -
[33]
Most the other recon ships (Minmatar and Amarr especially) are extremely deadly ships, even solo. People die to Curses, Huginns, etc all the time
When was the last time a Falcon killed anything?
Note also how it's required to use all the lowslots+medslots to actually be effective at doing that. None of the other Recons have that drawback. Falcon has to sacrifice everything to be any good at it's role.
It dosen't need a nerf.
- Infectious - |
Asuka SoryuLangley
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Posted - 2008.08.23 19:26:00 -
[34]
It is the most effective gang ship and the other recons should be as good as it.
We got enough solo ships (and btw this is an online multiplayer game).
What it is needed is recons being able to counter other recons.
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Burn Mac
Minmatar
Burning Steel Inc.
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Posted - 2008.08.23 19:52:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Burn Mac on 23/08/2008 19:52:50
Originally by: Ravn Silverclaw
I'll just modify your post a bit to eliminate things that are useless
FORCE RECON SHIPS
Amarr - Pilgrim
Cruiser bonus: Tracking Disruptor + Drones
Recon bonus: Energy Vampire and Neutralizers
Minmatar - Rapier
Cruiser bonus: Target Painters + Turrets ROF
Recon bonus: Stasis Webifier
Gallente - Arazu
Cruiser bonus: Remote Sensor Dampeners + Turret Damage
Recon bonus: Warp Disruptor
Caldari - Falcon
Cruiser bonus: ECM + ECM
Recon bonus: ECM
so now i fixed your post.
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Asuka SoryuLangley
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Posted - 2008.08.23 20:38:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Burn Mac
Edited by: Burn Mac on 23/08/2008 19:52:50
Originally by: Ravn Silverclaw
I'll just modify your post a bit to eliminate things that are useless
FORCE RECON SHIPS
Amarr - Pilgrim
Cruiser bonus: Tracking Disruptor + Drones
Recon bonus: Energy Vampire and Neutralizers
Minmatar - Rapier
Cruiser bonus: Target Painters + Turrets ROF
Recon bonus: Stasis Webifier
Gallente - Arazu
Cruiser bonus: Remote Sensor Dampeners + Turret Damage
Recon bonus: Warp Disruptor
Caldari - Falcon
Cruiser bonus: ECM + ECM
Recon bonus: ECM
so now i fixed your post.
That is sadly true.
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Kuzya Morozov
Gallente
L8L8L8
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Posted - 2008.08.23 21:36:00 -
[37]
My Arazu ****s your Falcon :)
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Kano Sekor
Amarr
The Movement
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Posted - 2008.08.23 22:06:00 -
[38]
fix so that fitting one eccm cuts your jam cycle by 50% fitting two means you get jammed 5 sec each cycle?
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Asuka SoryuLangley
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Posted - 2008.08.24 08:52:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Kano Sekor
fix so that fitting one eccm cuts your jam cycle by 50% fitting two means you get jammed 5 sec each cycle?
Interesting
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Derek Sigres
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Posted - 2008.08.24 09:39:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Asuka SoryuLangley
It is the most effective gang ship and the other recons should be as good as it.
We got enough solo ships (and btw this is an online multiplayer game).
What it is needed is recons being able to counter other recons.
It's an interesting idea that recons OUGHT to be used to counter other recons. Unfortunately, no amount of boosting is EVER going to make a minnie recon a good counter for a Falcon as an example - minnie EWAR just doesn't work that way.
That being said, both Caldari HAC's are excellent anti-support ships. Unfortunately, the other races HAC's traded singular purpose for greater general combat utility. Perhaps the HAC class, which people are already widely moaning about being useless when the nerf hasn't happened yet, should be looked at as the "anti-support" class. They are already fairly insulated against the falcon's EWAR, with fairly high sensor strength (for cruisers).
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2008.08.24 10:08:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 24/08/2008 10:09:54
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 24/08/2008 10:08:34
Yep, another completely un-original Falcon whine, full of bad assumptions and poor understanding of game design/mechanics. Instead of whining about how many bonuses each ship has, why not actually look at the end result:
Rapier: not even relevant to the discussion, as it has a completely different role. The Falcon's job is to shut down the biggest threats in the enemy fleet. The Rapier's job is to web/paint the primary target so everyone in the fleet hits it for full damage. There is absolutely no overlap in these roles.
Pilgrim: the Pilgrim sucks because the Pilgrim sucks, not because the Falcon is good. Even if CCP deleted every single Falcon, there still wouldn't be a good Pilgrim setup that doesn't involve cargo expanders.
Arazu: finally at least some overlap. Except there really isn't. Note that the Arazu has bonuses to two different ewar types because it has two different jobs: tackle AND ewar. Which, in the scenarios where you actually use a Gallente ship (solo and very small gang PvP) is BETTER than the Falcon since it fills two roles with only one pilot, while the Falcon uses up a pilot to only do one thing. In fact, for everything besides removing hostile ECM ships, the Arazu is a much better ship for a 1-3 man gang. Now, there are three problems with the Arazu, one of them solved already:
1) The damp nerf was massive overkill, and the Arazu should have been given an increased bonus to compensate, or at least a SDA equivalent to trade low slots for some of its power back. Like with the ECM nerf, specialized ships should be less nerfed than the "spare mid slot on a PvP ship? Fit a damp of course" problems.
2) Solo/small-gang PvP is less and less common. This doesn't say anything about the Falcon and Arazu, it just says that larger fleets are prefered over 1-3 man gangs. Obviously if you're flying a 20 man gang, you take the fleet ewar ship, not the small-gang ewar ship.
3) Solo-small-gang PvP has been dominated by nano ships recently. The Arazu's ewar depends on being able to keep out of range of the target, and the Arazu is just slower than nano-HACs. The result: in the role where the Arazu is supposed to be useful, it's just a suicide ship. Fly an Arazu against a nano-HAC, and your lifespan is measured in seconds, it just MWDs up to you and ganks you. It doesn't matter how effective you are at damping the target's range when the target is fast enough to put itself at any arbitrary range it feels like, and there's nothing you can do to stop it.
Once the speed nerf is released, expect the Arazu to become quite a bit more useful. If the MWD shutdown effect stays on warp scramblers, expect it to be REALLY useful. But please, if you're going to whine about ships, at least take the time to understand what their roles are supposed to be before you make stupid posts.
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Satura
Most Wanted INC
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Posted - 2008.08.24 10:49:00 -
[42]
Quote:
I'm not complaining here [...] the falcon is not inline
Not complaining, eh?
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