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Shadow Sapphire
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Posted - 2008.08.26 12:02:00 -
[91]
Ignore the trolls & stupid replys .
A properly fited Nafalgar is a force to be feared . You misht not to the highest raw dps but you can choose your dmg type and an FC loves you for that . Also you will have higher prority to be repped since other dreads like Revelation can tank hell it's self while you need to be helped .
The Nafalgar is a dam good dread .
Ofc that when it comes to dreads the rankings are Revelation > Moros > Nafalgar/Pheonix . But you have to rember that the diffrences between dreads are minor .
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.08.26 12:06:00 -
[92]
 Originally by: Shadow Sapphire
A properly fited Nafalgar is a force to be feared . You misht not to the highest raw dps but you can choose your dmg type and an FC loves you for that .
A Phoenix does it better. And, no, lol, changing damage types isn't a huge plus (and ACs are fail for it, anyway - you lose raw DPS when changing damage types which nearly always means less actual DPS after resists). FCs definitely don't love nags.
Originally by: Shadow Sapphire
Also you will have higher prority to be repped since other dreads like Revelation can tank hell it's self while you need to be helped .
Because remote reps work in siege?
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.08.26 12:09:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Rajere
Edited by: Rajere on 26/08/2008 10:23:55
Eh, you know the nidhoggur has the 2nd best local tank, after the Chimera, if it shield tanks, right? Better than the Archon or thanatos (archon slightly edges it out with carrier 5). The likelihood of fitting a shield tank depends entirely on what you're doing and how many carriers (if any) are with you. But just sitting outside a station repping BS, just fit a shield tank and fit low slot ECCMs
Well, you're not fitting many lowslot ECCMs after insuring your shield tank actually runs.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.08.26 14:38:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Shadow Sapphire
A properly fited Nafalgar is a force to be feared .
This quote speaks for itself.
S'ok, forget that it has the worst tank, the worst DPS, can't really change damage types, has the longest training time, will die first etc.
You have obviously proved the naglfar's true worth to us.
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Spaztick
Canadian Imperial Armaments
EVESpace
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Posted - 2008.08.26 15:07:00 -
[95]
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Shadow Sapphire
A properly fited Nafalgar is a force to be feared .
This quote speaks for itself.
S'ok, forget that it has the worst tank, the worst DPS, can't really change damage types, has the longest training time, will die first etc.
You have obviously proved the naglfar's true worth to us.
The Naglfar isn't bad, but it isn't great. You can have comparable DPS to a revelation but a very very bad sustained tank. You do get a nice bit of burst tank, but taking 1000 DPS over time is different from taking 11000 dps for only a minute and then dying.
You can have the best sustained tank and comparable burst to a moros, but have the worst dps of all the dreads. It's a tossup really, but to achieve this versatility you have to have maxed out capital armor and shield skills as well as maxed projectile and missile skills, where the other dreads only have to have one or the other. Maybe a slight boost to either or, but nothing major.
This is from EFT and 2nd hand experience, though, so grain of salt, etc.
But seriously, more people should have some type of spacer in their sigs to show it's not part of the post.
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Bronson Hughes
ADVANCED Combat and Engineering
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Posted - 2008.08.26 16:30:00 -
[96]
The main problem with the Naglfar is that it's got the slot layout of a Tempest but the hardpoint layout and bonuses of a Typhoon. This makes for a bad combination for numerous reasons, the biggest one being that without a lot of low slots you can't effectively balance tank and damage because split weapon ships need multiple different damage mods.
The most logical fix for it as far as I can see would be to make it like one or the other, not a mish-mash of both. If you made it more Tempest-Like by dropping the launcher bonus for another gun bonus and adding a turret hardpoint, you could actually do some good damage without gimping your still medicore tank and you would be able to fly it without having Citadel Torps. If you made it more Typhoon-Like by moving a mid-slot down to a low-slot, you could sport a better tank or have the option to do more damage but you would still have the issue of long training times.
On a completely unrelated note, a Naglfar (especially one re-balnced to be more like a Typhoon) would be a good candidate to use capital-class cap warfare mods if they ever get introduced. Just think of a torp/neut 'Phoon only 10x bigger and with a siege module running. Ouch.
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"I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Evanade
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.08.26 19:36:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Rajere
Edited by: Rajere on 26/08/2008 10:23:55
Eh, you know the nidhoggur has the 2nd best local tank, after the Chimera, if it shield tanks, right? Better than the Archon or thanatos (archon slightly edges it out with carrier 5). The likelihood of fitting a shield tank depends entirely on what you're doing and how many carriers (if any) are with you. But just sitting outside a station repping BS, just fit a shield tank and fit low slot ECCMs and every argument in this thread against the Nid goes out the window. You're minmatar, you're already trained for capital armor capital shield capital remote armor capital remote shield capital projectile capital citadels anyway, might as well use those skills.
In a carrier spider tank fleet, you'll most likely armor tank unless of course there's a hugely disproportionate number of chimeras/shield tank nids. Local tank doesn't matter though if you have a bunch of rr carriers, so armor tank away.
Nid can not realistically shieldtank as it will lack mids for sensorboosters and eccm / also it will be a very tight fit.
sok alt - main got banzored |
Trevor Warps
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Posted - 2008.08.26 19:43:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Bronson Hughes
On a completely unrelated note, a Naglfar (especially one re-balnced to be more like a Typhoon) would be a good candidate to use capital-class cap warfare mods if they ever get introduced. Just think of a torp/neut 'Phoon only 10x bigger and with a siege module running. Ouch.
Siege Module : Boosts Capital Neutz ammount by 500%.
Yes plx :)
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Ambrosious Martin
Son of Man
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Posted - 2008.08.26 20:53:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Because remote reps work in siege?
Actually I think they do!! Since it's the carrier that equips the RR. We all know that carriers dont have the ability to use seige, just triage.
Sry cpt branko I had to troll this comment.
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Liang Nuren
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.08.26 20:57:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Trevor Warps
Siege Module : Boosts Capital Neutz ammount by 500%.
Yes plx :)
Capital Neuts = 100km, amiright? <3 if the Niddy had this too, and we could have a return to the Nos Domi days of yore. ;-)
-Liang
--
I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent.
-- Mahatma Gandhi |
Spaztick
Canadian Imperial Armaments
EVESpace
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Posted - 2008.08.26 23:31:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Evanade
Nid can not realistically shieldtank as it will lack mids for sensorboosters and eccm / also it will be a very tight fit.
Well truth be told the only time I would ever use a sensor booster would be for shooting other ships, which I won't be doing in a dread unless it's me shooting at other dreads and carriers (hopefully not a titan), in which case they have such a large signature radius that there's no reason for a SB anyway. A POS isn't going anywhere and I can lock up the batteries around it before going into siege and start shooting. An ECCM would be useful to have, but 1 ECCM gives a Nag 76 sensor strength, which a Falcon or even a mothership with ECM burst will have a hard time jamming.
But seriously, more people should have some type of spacer in their sigs to show it's not part of the post.
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Asterisk Grat
Best Path Inc.
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.08.27 00:24:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Shadow Sapphire
...properly fited Nafalgar is a force to be feared . ......
Example?
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Liang Nuren
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.08.27 00:40:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 27/08/2008 00:39:56
Originally by: Spaztick
Well truth be told the only time I would ever use a sensor booster would be for shooting other ships, which I won't be doing in a dread unless it's me shooting at other dreads and carriers (hopefully not a titan), in which case they have such a large signature radius that there's no reason for a SB anyway.
Evanade was talking about the "Nid". The Niddy is a carrier, and uses the sensor booster to lock support ships that need remote repping. I'd say that a carrier not fitting a sensor booster is being remiss in its duties. Then again, IMO, the only place to use a Niddy is triaged and POS repping... just make sure your corp pays for it if they hotdrop on you.
I'm going to assume the rest of this post is about the Naglfar.
Quote:
A POS isn't going anywhere and I can lock up the batteries around it before going into siege and start shooting. An ECCM would be useful to have, but 1 ECCM gives a Nag 76 sensor strength, which a Falcon or even a mothership with ECM burst will have a hard time jamming.
A few things:
- Dreads are immune to Ewar when in siege mode
- Dreads lose lock on all targets when going into and out of siege mode
- Dreads cannot be remote repped in siege mode
-Liang
Ed: Sigh, spelling error.
--
I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent.
-- Mahatma Gandhi |
Gamesguy
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.08.27 01:34:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Spaztick
Originally by: Evanade
Nid can not realistically shieldtank as it will lack mids for sensorboosters and eccm / also it will be a very tight fit.
Well truth be told the only time I would ever use a sensor booster would be for shooting other ships, which I won't be doing in a dread unless it's me shooting at other dreads and carriers (hopefully not a titan), in which case they have such a large signature radius that there's no reason for a SB anyway. A POS isn't going anywhere and I can lock up the batteries around it before going into siege and start shooting. An ECCM would be useful to have, but 1 ECCM gives a Nag 76 sensor strength, which a Falcon or even a mothership with ECM burst will have a hard time jamming.
WTB: falcon that can jam sieged dreads.
Just stop talking, you've obviously never flown a dread, or any capital for that matter.
Dreads are also fitted with cap fights in mind, not with pos bashing in mind. You send the carriers in first to incap all the really dangerous shit like large guns and neut batteries then you send in the dreads to kill the pos, you dont need some special fit for pos bashing.
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Liang Nuren
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.08.27 02:04:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Gamesguy
WTB: falcon that can jam sieged dreads.
Just stop talking, you've obviously never flown a dread, or any capital for that matter.
Dreads are also fitted with cap fights in mind, not with pos bashing in mind. You send the carriers in first to incap all the really dangerous shit like large guns and neut batteries then you send in the dreads to kill the pos, you dont need some special fit for pos bashing.
Am I allowed to talk if I've decided that I don't want to fly caps? :p
-Liang
--
I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent.
-- Mahatma Gandhi |
Beca Fenrir
Minmatar
Order of Draco
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Posted - 2008.08.27 02:14:00 -
[106]
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
Nag isn't too bad. It gets 4 weapons remember whereas the other dreads (barring maybe the Moros) only get 3.
Plus it's the scariest looking thing in EVE 
Does the LEAST amount of DPS of all dreads, while sporting the worst tank. # of CAPLESS mean jack.
 fixed that part for you
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.08.27 02:15:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Beca Fenrir
fixed that part for you
I has a fan! 
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Boz Well
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.08.27 03:45:00 -
[108]
V
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A
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C
A
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Edmund Khan
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.08.27 06:38:00 -
[109]
Naglfar:
7.5% bonus to Capital Projectile rate of fire per level
5% bonus to Citadel Launcher rate of fire per level
This looks like two bonuses, but it's really one... The one more gun/launcher doesn't make up for the not existing dmg bonus, specially since you got to reload often and loose even more time to make dmg. And like many said before, if you fit a dmg mod, it's only for half of it's slots. And you can't really put 2x Gyro and 2x BCU on, since you need to shield tank it then, and you need co-proc for it which gimps your setup even more.
Ofc you have to train a lot more than for other dreads, but that's minmatar, you chose it. The only thing I really like about it is the huge cargospace.
You could say, the Revelation also has only one bonus. And you would be right. One of the bonus is for the cap usage of the guns. But you don't have reloading times, and this makes the rev on top of every killmail. And I'm not sure, but I think the lasers have a bit higher dmg mod to compensate the cap usage bonus (or the lack of second dmg/rof bonus), just a suspicion though.
No reloading, 21m3 for the full crystal set (7 ammo types), you never have to pick up ammo. A bit more cargospace would be nice, just as much as you need for 300 or 600 stront more (1 or 2 cycles), then this would be the best dread ingame.
Moros is the only dread which has a bonus that works without siege. And those drones hurt. Besides that it also has a dmg bonus for it's 3 guns. And you could almost count the drones as a fourth. Very nice ship.
The Phoenix is crap :) At least that's what many say. But you have a dmg bonus and a rof bonus. You can choose all four damage types. It's the only real shield tanking dread. All I know about this is that we always have to wait for them while they recharge cap :) Other than that I don't have any experience with them.
What I tried to say... Hmmm... Revelation and Moros are OK, Naglfar needs more oomph! and phoenix a better cap recharge? |
Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
Elitist Cowards
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Posted - 2008.08.27 10:42:00 -
[110]
The badassery nature of the guns on that minnie ship is reason enough to train the sucker.
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