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Are Naglfars really this bad?

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Brugar	Posted - 2008.08.23 16:28:00 - [1] I went to my Corps Wiki page about this Dread and this is what they have posted. "Overview ~naglfart~ The Minmatar Dreadnought. Looks disturbingly like the mothership in Homeworld. The Naglfar has a lot of problems. The main problem is the slot layout, as it does fairly mediocre damage without damage mods. You can fit a decent sustainable armor tank which is very useful in high-lag situations, but it isn't as good as other dreadnoughts, and they get to fit damage mods. The other option is to fit a shield tank, but this means you need 2x Co-Processors to fit all the shield gear unless you invest in pricey faction gear/implants. This also leaves next to no room for cap rechargers, with a tank thats weaker than the Phoenix. And then the problem with the damage mods themselves is that you have to fit both Ballistic Control Systems and Gyrostabilizers or otherwise you're only enhancing half of your total firepower. Although, it can do just as much damage as the Phoenix across multiple damage types. The third problem with the Naglfar is the extensive training time. You need the support skills for both the Torpedo launchers and the Projectiles, meaning two sets of capital weapons skills. On top of that, you may want to fit an armor tank based on the situation, so you need both capital armor and capital shield skills. Train the Revelation, Phoenix or Moros instead." Now, I'm not really questioning my Corp ability to know wtf is going on... but wow, there is nothing good listed about this thing. I am about 16 days away from flying it also :( Something I am missing?
Boz Well Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.23 16:30:00 - [2] Minmatar caps are pretty fail. Their description sounds pretty accurate.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.23 16:31:00 - [3] Originally by: Brugar Something I am missing? It's freakin' vertical.
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.08.23 16:33:00 - [4] Originally by: Brugar but wow, there is nothing good ITS F R I C K I N G V E R T I C A L that gives it some points hehe. poudly annoying fc's since 2007 The pos debate: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=851738
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.08.23 16:33:00 - [5] Originally by: Boz Well Minmatar caps are pretty fail. Their description sounds pretty accurate. lol nidhogger is best carrier for fleets. Two bonus's that enhance RR make it uber poudly annoying fc's since 2007 The pos debate: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=851738
Carniflex Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.08.23 16:40:00 - [6] Originally by: BiggestT Originally by: Boz Well Minmatar caps are pretty fail. Their description sounds pretty accurate. lol nidhogger is best carrier for fleets. Two bonus's that enhance RR make it uber It's good to boost pos out of reinforced. Not so stellar for capital fleets bcos with the amount of damage and RR throwed around in those resistance bonuses are better. It will also get primaried before amarr or caldary ones bcos of it's RR bonuses and lack of resistance bonuses.
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.08.23 16:43:00 - [7] Originally by: Carniflex Originally by: BiggestT Originally by: Boz Well Minmatar caps are pretty fail. Their description sounds pretty accurate. lol nidhogger is best carrier for fleets. Two bonus's that enhance RR make it uber It's good to boost pos out of reinforced. Not so stellar for capital fleets bcos with the amount of damage and RR throwed around in those resistance bonuses are better. It will also get primaried before amarr or caldary ones bcos of it's RR bonuses and lack of resistance bonuses. Well its still better than the than with no resistance bonus... poudly annoying fc's since 2007 The pos debate: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=851738
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.08.23 17:03:00 - [8] Originally by: BiggestT Well its still better than the than with no resistance bonus... You mean the Thanny? No, it's not. The Thanny lends itself well to smaller scale PVP because of the damage bonus. Please also don't forget that while the Thanny and the Niddy share the same slot layout, the Thanny has more of everything (CPU, grid, drone space, hitpoints, sensor strength, etc). Thanny > Niddy, sorry. -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi
Brugar	Posted - 2008.08.23 17:06:00 - [9] Originally by: Liang Nuren the Thanny has more of everything (CPU, grid, drone space, hitpoints, sensor strength, etc). /sigh Go CCP? o/
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.08.23 17:07:00 - [10] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: BiggestT Well its still better than the than with no resistance bonus... You mean the Thanny? No, it's not. The Thanny lends itself well to smaller scale PVP because of the damage bonus. Please also don't forget that while the Thanny and the Niddy share the same slot layout, the Thanny has more of everything (CPU, grid, drone space, hitpoints, sensor strength, etc). Thanny > Niddy, sorry. -Liang Well yeah nid gets trumped for small scale stuff but as an overall asset to a large fleet i think a nid may be better. Rr for pos repping/cap fleets is just ze bomb. Not being a cap pilot i cant comment with true accuracy tho, so i cld ezily be wrong. What were the nids rr bonus's again? was it armour and cap? poudly annoying fc's since 2007 The pos debate: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=851738
Dristra Amarr Shadows of the Dead Daisho Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.23 17:24:00 - [11] Well, mini caps look cool at least. Support the introduction of well thought out Amarr solutions! I believe rats should avoid you if you have high standing with them.
yrknat	Posted - 2008.08.23 17:36:00 - [12] Originally by: Dristra Well, mini caps look cool at least. I trained matar simply because I liked the look of their ships. I still have a pest in my hanger that i undock and fly around the system to admire from time to time. Of course I use other ships for PvE and PvP these days, exception being scimitar, I love that ship
Tiuwaz Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.08.23 17:45:00 - [13] Originally by: Boz Well Minmatar caps are pretty fail. Their description sounds pretty accurate. This. I own Both Nag and and Nid and the only reason for that is because of looks and my diehard minni attitude. The Nag is hands down the worst dread without any reason to use one besides looks. The Nid has atleast some uses but compared to the others it still falls short. If you are seriosuly looking for caps dont train Minni. ___________________________________
Evanade Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.23 17:53:00 - [14] nid is arguably the best carrier for rr, but yeah, nag is worst dread by far sok alt - main got banzored
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.08.23 18:00:00 - [15] Originally by: Evanade nid is arguably the best carrier for rr, but yeah, nag is worst dread by far Man Sok, don't do that crap. Nope, it's not even best at RR gangs due to propensity to be primaried (weak local tank, poor use of remote reps). That doesn't count that it's far and away the easiest to jam, has the worst buffer tank, has the worst fittings, etc. -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi
Evanade Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.23 18:07:00 - [16] Well okay, in theory it's best at rr but due to people being generally stupid and lag etc it wont work sok alt - main got banzored
forum mematar	Posted - 2008.08.23 20:38:00 - [17] Edited by: forum mematar on 23/08/2008 20:39:42 Nidhoggur? Damn fine. Naglfar? Could use some tweaks maybe. And Thanatos being better than Nidhoggur? I have flown both and god I do not _EVER_ want to fly a Thanatos again, no matter what. (And I have flown them all in small scale PVP and the Thanatos' damage bonus is damn useless.) --- http://stige.pingtimeout.net/evevids/
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.23 21:38:00 - [18] Originally by: forum mematar Edited by: forum mematar on 23/08/2008 20:39:42 Nidhoggur? Damn fine. Naglfar? Could use some tweaks maybe. And Thanatos being better than Nidhoggur? I have flown both and god I do not _EVER_ want to fly a Thanatos again, no matter what. (And I have flown them all in small scale PVP and the Thanatos' damage bonus is damn useless.) You're an idiot then. Niddy is useless in small engagements and naglfar is the worst at damage, tanking, AND training time. "some tweaks maybe" doesnt cut it.
Asterisk Grat Best Path Inc. Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.23 22:19:00 - [19] Minnie capitals needs a boost, no questions asked. See this topic in assembly hall. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=779753
SjornWOW	Posted - 2008.08.23 22:21:00 - [20] Originally by: AstroPhobic You're an idiot then. Niddy is useless in small engagements and naglfar is the worst at damage, tanking, AND training time. "some tweaks maybe" doesnt cut it. Useless in small fights? Are we talking about the same ship here? Best remote reps in the game, ability to run 3 bonused capital remotes for quite a long time makes it the best carrier in small fights. Tell me again, who makes a carrier primary as long as the support is alive? With remote rep bonus Nid has the best chances to keep them alive By the way, "Dps thanny" is just pure failure. No matter what skills you have or how many Drone control units you stuff in it, you'll still be outdamaged by two close range Battleships. (Not even counting how easy it is to blow up fighters with couple battleship)
Havohej The Defias Brotherhood	Posted - 2008.08.23 23:10:00 - [21] Originally by: Asterisk Grat Minnie capitals needs a boost, no questions asked. See this topic in assembly hall. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=779753 I make link for you. Originally by: CCP Explorer You can still steal their stuff.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.23 23:36:00 - [22] Originally by: SjornWOW Originally by: AstroPhobic You're an idiot then. Niddy is useless in small engagements and naglfar is the worst at damage, tanking, AND training time. "some tweaks maybe" doesnt cut it. Useless in small fights? Are we talking about the same ship here? Best remote reps in the game, ability to run 3 bonused capital remotes for quite a long time makes it the best carrier in small fights. Tell me again, who makes a carrier primary as long as the support is alive? With remote rep bonus Nid has the best chances to keep them alive Perhaps you should find some experience to back up your claims. Niddy has good RR, yes, but when repping battleships and support it hardly matters. When shit hits the fan, you'll be **ed that you're A) Insta-primary out of all carriers, effectively making your RR bonuses worthless B) A big target if your support dies C) Have a crap personal tank Quote:** By the way, "Dps thanny" is just pure failure. No matter what skills you have or how many Drone control units you stuff in it, you'll still be outdamaged by two close range Battleships. (Not even counting how easy it is to blow up fighters with couple battleship) Only idiots or ratters fit Drone Control Units. Carriers are never, and will never be DPS machines. Why you think the thanatos and DCUs are synonymous is beyond me.
Yelram Minmatar AnTi.	Posted - 2008.08.24 00:35:00 - [23] Minmatar BS and above need a boost. Highest training times = worst results. Thanks CCP.
Boz Well Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.24 00:49:00 - [24] Originally by: Yelram Minmatar BS and above need a nerf. Thanks CCP. Fixed to account for caplessness.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.08.24 01:15:00 - [25] Originally by: Boz Well Originally by: Yelram Minmatar BS and above need a nerf. Thanks CCP. Fixed to account for caplessness. They got to you, didn't they. You finally turned.... didn't you? You've... trained Amarr. Say it ain't so... -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.08.24 01:18:00 - [26] Naglfar has a split weapon system. That's not explicitly bad, but it does impose certain limitations - it takes two lots of training, and you cannot fit damage mods as easily. This is usually balanced by having a bit more baseline damage - the Naglfar has 4 highslots. And actually, that's not a problem really - apart from the fact that the Naglfar _otherwise_ gets the same slot count as the other dreadnoughts. Highslots might as well be a DPS number, or a single weapon - no one 'mixes' weapon types and layouts, because that just makes you terrible at everything - therefore slot count on your highs shouldn't actually be a balance factor - range, tracking, cap use and DPS of your weapon systems combined is all that matters. So yes, that missing slot on the Naglfar - add a mid or a low, and it'll go a long way towards being a good ship. (Oh, and fix the CPU too). -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Rawr Cristina Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.24 01:35:00 - [27] Nag isn't too bad. It gets 4 weapons remember whereas the other dreads (barring maybe the Moros) only get 3. Plus it's the scariest looking thing in EVE - Infectious -
Boz Well Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.24 01:39:00 - [28] Originally by: Rawr Cristina Nag isn't too bad. It gets 4 weapons remember whereas the other dreads (barring maybe the Moros) only get 3. Plus it's the scariest looking thing in EVE F R E A K I N C A P L E S S Er, vertical. Whatever.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.24 01:41:00 - [29] Originally by: Rawr Cristina Nag isn't too bad. It gets 4 weapons remember whereas the other dreads (barring maybe the Moros) only get 3. Plus it's the scariest looking thing in EVE Does the LEAST amount of DPS of all dreads, while sporting the worst tank. # of hardpoints mean jack.
Elhina Novae Destruction Reborn CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2008.08.24 01:44:00 - [30] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Boz Well Originally by: Yelram Minmatar BS and above need a nerf. Thanks CCP. Fixed to account for caplessness. They got to you, didn't they. You finally turned.... didn't you? You've... trained Amarr. Say it ain't so... -Liang Before I started to notice Your, Boz Wells and Astrophobics posts I actually wanted to crosstrain minmatar but i am gonna stick to Amarr :P Minmatar is capless, therefor they should suck in return for balance you know? ------------ Originally by: Boz Well Originally by: SurrenderMonkey ... There's an Amarr problem? Nothing that can't be solved by more Minmatar nerfs.

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