| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Herring
Caldari
Alcatraz Inc.
Tau Ceti Federation
   |
Posted - 2008.08.26 05:29:00 -
[1]
For the longest time I've wondered why there were no level 1-4 agents in 0.0 conquerable stations. Especially now given that one of the biggest moans is that the risk/reward of level 4's in empire is not balanced. Consider this:
Alliance pays for a random quality :
level 1 agent : 10 mil/month
level 2 agent : 20 mil/month
level 3 agent : 40 mil/month
level 4 agent : 60 mil/month
level 5 agent : 200 mil/month
Could there be a better carrot to get the mission runners out of empire? I don't think there could be. Not only that, you have something that makes your outpost more desirable, even if it's in crap space.
And the cost per month I just pulled out of my ass. I don't know what the cost of an agent should be 
|
Carniflex
Caldari
StarHunt
Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 06:25:00 -
[2]
Prices are a bit low indeed you have posted, overall good idea. It would no doubt make 0.0 more attractive place as currently main problem is that all the resources in most of 0.0 have maximum population density they can support. You can't just jam 100 pilots into one station in there and expect them all to find something worthwhile to do in the vicinity.
|
Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 14:59:00 -
[3]
Interesting concept, though I'm not sure it makes sense fluffwise. Worth considering though.
------------------
Fix the forums! |
Cyberman Mastermind
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 15:50:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Cyberman Mastermind on 26/08/2008 15:50:23
I like it.
However, I'd rather tie it to standings. A corp can have standings towards an NPC corp.
I have no idea about how outposts work, but what if the controlling entity(corp/alliance?) needs to have a standing of X in order to attract agents of level Y in division Z to come there?
For example, if they have a standing of 6, they can chose agents of level 3 in divisions mining and manufacturing.
More choices with higher standing, of course. Numbers used are arbitrary. |
Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Excessive Force
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 16:00:00 -
[5]
So you're paying someone... to give you missions... and to pay you for running them?
Where's the Reward money coming from, except from the fees you're paying him to begin with?
---
Don't take my ranting personally. I may just be arguing the topic, unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word.
"Players don't want Variety. They want THE BEST" |
Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 18:18:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Marcus Gideon
So you're paying someone... to give you missions... and to pay you for running them?
Where's the Reward money coming from, except from the fees you're paying him to begin with?
Where does the money come from for normal missions? The Caldari just like killing Guristas, and as long as you provide for their agent's hook...um, "creature comforts", they're willing to pay you to shoot them. Rats don't only need killing in highsec, after all.
------------------
Fix the forums! |
Herring
Caldari
Alcatraz Inc.
Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 21:19:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Marcus Gideon
So you're paying someone... to give you missions... and to pay you for running them?
Where's the Reward money coming from, except from the fees you're paying him to begin with?
Basically it's like headhunters who search for doctors here in the states....you pay a guy, who in turn searches for the doc, who comes to your area and starts his own business based on your need. You're paying the headhunter the initial fee, but the services of the doctor (and what he charges for them) are completely separate.
In the case of the agent, you pay the agent for the cost of bringing him there, knowing that the agent will want stuff done (pirates killed, factions disrupted, etc) and will pay well to see his agenda accomplished.
|
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 21:34:00 -
[8]
No. Missions are already a stupid mechanic (No competition, infinitely scalability, etc.) We don't need to put EVE's focus even MORE onto them
|
Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Excessive Force
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 00:38:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Marcus Gideon
So you're paying someone... to give you missions... and to pay you for running them?
Where's the Reward money coming from, except from the fees you're paying him to begin with?
Where does the money come from for normal missions? The Caldari just like killing Guristas, and as long as you provide for their agent's hook...um, "creature comforts", they're willing to pay you to shoot them. Rats don't only need killing in highsec, after all.
Actually... agents are receiving funding from their dominant corporations because Players are performing services on their behalf.
Agents are assigned to various locations, to take up residence and make friends. They talk to the travelers that pass through, gathering rumors and listening to "tales told over a pint".
Then they wait for someone with a reputation for getting errands done... and pass along the info. "People have been having a problem in THIS area. Go clean it up, and we'll pay you for your trouble."
If Agents took up residence in POS or Outposts...
1) There wouldn't be random travelers passing through. The only info would come from Corp/Alliance personnel who frequent the station.
2) Agents would start gathering info like... "Everytime a wandering pilot happens to pass through THIS Stargate, they get ganked by the local hoodlums." Except... YOU are the hoodlum.
In short... there's nothing for an Agent to make a mission out of, except for trying to thwart YOUR own activities.
---
Don't take my ranting personally. I may just be arguing the topic, unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word.
"Players don't want Variety. They want THE BEST" |
Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 01:27:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Marcus Gideon
Actually... agents are receiving funding from their dominant corporations because Players are performing services on their behalf.
Agents are assigned to various locations, to take up residence and make friends. They talk to the travelers that pass through, gathering rumors and listening to "tales told over a pint".
Then they wait for someone with a reputation for getting errands done... and pass along the info. "People have been having a problem in THIS area. Go clean it up, and we'll pay you for your trouble."
If Agents took up residence in POS or Outposts...
1) There wouldn't be random travelers passing through. The only info would come from Corp/Alliance personnel who frequent the station.
2) Agents would start gathering info like... "Everytime a wandering pilot happens to pass through THIS Stargate, they get ganked by the local hoodlums." Except... YOU are the hoodlum.
In short... there's nothing for an Agent to make a mission out of, except for trying to thwart YOUR own activities.
Missions are, the vast majority of the time, aimed at killing pirate faction rats. Belt rats exist in 0.0, and so we can infer that pirate factions exist in 0.0. Therefore, there's people to kill in 0.0 that aren't PCs, and therefore missions make sense.
------------------
Fix the forums! |
Herring
Caldari
Alcatraz Inc.
Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 05:25:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
No. Missions are already a stupid mechanic (No competition, infinitely scalability, etc.) We don't need to put EVE's focus even MORE onto them
When I thought of this topic, it wasn't to put more focus on them, it would be to eliminate level 4's altogether in highsec and make them lowsec/0.0 only.
But to do that, you'd need a redistribution system. And what better way to redistribute them than this? Imagine the moaning! 
|
Venkul Mul
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 05:43:00 -
[12]
Give them the damned agents, they will stop whining for a week.
|
SFX Bladerunner
Naval Protection Corp
Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 12:21:00 -
[13]
'moving' lvl4 (and up) agents to 0.0 (or even+lowsec) only would accomplish either one of the following:
1. everybody moves to 0.0, empire empties except for miner carebears
2. everybody in empire becomes a miner carebear
3. everybody that used to make their isk in empire doing missions to fund various 0.0/lowsec operations becomes broke
4. some kid shoots his brains out leaving a note "EVE ONLINE KILLED ME" whereupon his parents ofcourse sue CCP because the thought that they themselves couldn't raise their child properly just doesn't occur to them and they win the lawsuit because the kid and parents were from the USA and thus CCP is broke and EVE Online seizes to exsist.
now tbh, not one of those scenario's looks appealing to me, except for the last one ofcourse where the boy dies, but that's just me. Also I like the thought that if I ever decide to just leave 0.0 and become semi-active I can always have some fun and make some isk in empire on the odd times I actually AM online by doing lvl4 missions
__________________________________________________
History is much like an endless waltz, the three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.. |
procurement specialist
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 16:27:00 -
[14]
only because deep 0.0 has no training ground for new recruits. jumping straight into double and triple bs rats is hard on a newb. I would pay for a level 1 agent out in our space.
|
Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Excessive Force
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 23:09:00 -
[15]
Originally by: procurement specialist
only because deep 0.0 has no training ground for new recruits. jumping straight into double and triple bs rats is hard on a newb. I would pay for a level 1 agent out in our space.
Noobs don't belong out in 0.0 space... that's precisely what High Sec is there for... to show them the ropes. To get them used to gameplay, and combat, and so forth. Any rookie who just sets course and heads for 0.0 is only looking for heartache.
All these 0.0 Pirates are looking for, is a way to make a few ISK while they wait to gank each other. A way for a few of them to pass the time, while the others probe down the mission runners and kill them and steal their wrecks.
---
Don't take my ranting personally. I may just be arguing the topic, unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word.
"Players don't want Variety. They want THE BEST" |
Devon7785
Stormlord Battleforce
Vanguard.
|
Posted - 2008.08.28 00:23:00 -
[16]
love it! wheres my lvl5 agent to pwn in 0.0
ôHe who defends everything defends nothing.ö
|
Becq Starforged
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.08.28 01:48:00 -
[17]
In nullsec, the role of agents (ie, providing NPC content to shoot at for rewards) are provided by a combination of belt rats and exploration sites (including anomalies detectable via ship scanner). Those are easily lucrative enough without having missions. Besides missions are linked to the EVE backstory and to the NPC factions; if there were agents in alliance-owned space, the payments they make would rightfully come from the alliance's coffers, which I think most people would consider pointless.
--
Becq Starforged
Ushra'Khan
The Flame of Freedom Burns On! |
Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Excessive Force
|
Posted - 2008.08.28 01:58:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Becq Starforged
In nullsec, the role of agents (ie, providing NPC content to shoot at for rewards) are provided by a combination of belt rats and exploration sites (including anomalies detectable via ship scanner). Those are easily lucrative enough without having missions. Besides missions are linked to the EVE backstory and to the NPC factions; if there were agents in alliance-owned space, the payments they make would rightfully come from the alliance's coffers, which I think most people would consider pointless.
this^
---
Don't take my ranting personally. I may just be arguing the topic, unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word.
"Players don't want Variety. They want THE BEST" |
Herring
Caldari
Alcatraz Inc.
Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2008.08.28 05:18:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Becq Starforged
In nullsec, the role of agents (ie, providing NPC content to shoot at for rewards) are provided by a combination of belt rats and exploration sites (including anomalies detectable via ship scanner). Those are easily lucrative enough without having missions. Besides missions are linked to the EVE backstory and to the NPC factions; if there were agents in alliance-owned space, the payments they make would rightfully come from the alliance's coffers, which I think most people would consider pointless.
Let me address the role issue with a counterpoint: Look at NPC controlled nullsec. There are rats, exploration sites, and excellent NPC agents. And did I mention the officer spawn chance....lucrative enough? Your point there is not valid.
As far as backstory goes, as I explained before, the alliance owning the territory doesn't necessarily fund all of the endeavors of the agent(s). The faction that the agent comes from has their own agenda. Look at the missions that are offerred by highsec agents now. They offer encounters against every faction in the game.
|
Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
|
Posted - 2008.08.28 07:26:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Marcus Gideon
Noobs don't belong out in 0.0 space... that's precisely what High Sec is there for... to show them the ropes. To get them used to gameplay, and combat, and so forth. Any rookie who just sets course and heads for 0.0 is only looking for heartache.
What about the guy who has friends in a big alliance and wants to play with them? For example, I'm pretty sure the Goons are big on this - I remember seeing a newbie to do list that had "Step 1: Set your clone for (station). Step 2: Self-destruct your pod" on it, and I'm pretty sure it was theirs. They're a noob-friendly alliance, heavily 0.0 based, and there should be something for their new players to do besides pester their old players for charity. It's not like T1 frigates can tank or gank belt rats, or do a complex. That basically leaves them with light PvP duty, and that's both intermittent and a terrible way to build capital.
And even if my specific example is wrong, the situation is hardly inconceivable. A cardinal sin committed by far too many games is preventing people from playing with their friends - people like doing it, and you should make it easy for them. Making L1/L2 agents possible in hard 0.0 seems like a good way of doing this.
That's not to say L3/L4/L5 agents are a bad idea, but they need a different justification.
------------------
Fix the forums! |
Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Excessive Force
|
Posted - 2008.08.28 19:16:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Marcus Gideon
Noobs don't belong out in 0.0 space... that's precisely what High Sec is there for... to show them the ropes. To get them used to gameplay, and combat, and so forth. Any rookie who just sets course and heads for 0.0 is only looking for heartache.
What about the guy who has friends in a big alliance and wants to play with them? For example, I'm pretty sure the Goons are big on this - I remember seeing a newbie to do list that had "Step 1: Set your clone for (station). Step 2: Self-destruct your pod" on it, and I'm pretty sure it was theirs. They're a noob-friendly alliance, heavily 0.0 based, and there should be something for their new players to do besides pester their old players for charity. It's not like T1 frigates can tank or gank belt rats, or do a complex. That basically leaves them with light PvP duty, and that's both intermittent and a terrible way to build capital.
And even if my specific example is wrong, the situation is hardly inconceivable. A cardinal sin committed by far too many games is preventing people from playing with their friends - people like doing it, and you should make it easy for them. Making L1/L2 agents possible in hard 0.0 seems like a good way of doing this.
That's not to say L3/L4/L5 agents are a bad idea, but they need a different justification.
1) What's keeping the Alliance members from coming to High Sec and working with their new recruit until he's able and ready to enter 0.0 space?
2) Why doesn't the recruit take it upon themselves to get ready before setting out for Lawless space? Like training Salvaging for free from the Business 10 step, so they have a means of making ISK. Then they have a purpose besides bullet magnet during fleet combat... like cleanup afterwards.
3) "Eve is hard, argh!" or so it goes whenever a carebear complains about something. So why suddenly are we pandering to 0.0 Pirates, by providing them an honest day's work while they pass the time between Gate Camps, Mission Raiding, and Suicide Ganks? How about... you want the organized, regimented, pay scale mission running... then stay to the straight and narrow, and play in High Sec. If you want to be your own man, and live your own life away from "The Man"... then go play in 0.0 and quit yer' b!tchin'.
---
Don't take my ranting personally. I may just be arguing the topic, unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word.
"Players don't want Variety. They want THE BEST" |
Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
|
Posted - 2008.08.28 20:10:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Marcus Gideon
1) What's keeping the Alliance members from coming to High Sec and working with their new recruit until he's able and ready to enter 0.0 space?
2) Why doesn't the recruit take it upon themselves to get ready before setting out for Lawless space? Like training Salvaging for free from the Business 10 step, so they have a means of making ISK. Then they have a purpose besides bullet magnet during fleet combat... like cleanup afterwards.
3) "Eve is hard, argh!" or so it goes whenever a carebear complains about something. So why suddenly are we pandering to 0.0 Pirates, by providing them an honest day's work while they pass the time between Gate Camps, Mission Raiding, and Suicide Ganks? How about... you want the organized, regimented, pay scale mission running... then stay to the straight and narrow, and play in High Sec. If you want to be your own man, and live your own life away from "The Man"... then go play in 0.0 and quit yer' b!tchin'.
1) So an old player should be forced to choose between his game friends and his newbie RL friends is what you're saying? People have obligations - if you're the guy who does POS fueling, or you're the main FC, you can't just drop everything to go to highsec with your girlfriend.
2) "Hey, I just started this great new game! I don't get to play it for a week, but I have a character!"
No. That's idiotic. Yes, a newbie can mount a salvager in relatively short order, or a warp disruptor, or a handful of other useful modules, but having an income source that requires somebody else donating what is often the most valuable portion of their income stream is no different than making them live off the more explicit kind of charity.
3) Pirates are people too. And we already do provide them with something to do between gate camps - ratting. Missioning and ratting are so similar in effect that I cannot see why one would be acceptable and another would not. Also, you need to refine your list of piratical activities somewhat - 0.0 pirates don't do a whole lot of suicide ganking, what with the lack of CONCORD and all.
------------------
Fix the forums! |
Becq Starforged
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.08.29 00:14:00 -
[23]
There is no rational reason for a member of, say, the Caldari Navy to haul their buttocks to TCF space in order to pay TCF members to hunt down (NPC) pirates who are operating in TCF space. There is a reason for Angel Cartel to 'hire' players to pursue Cartel interests in/near Cartel space. This is why there are no agents in TCF space, but there are in Cartel space. The Cartel 'pays' for missions run on it's behalf; why shouldn't TCF pay for missions run on it's behalf, assuming such a thing were implemented?
Again, if you want to do missions in nullsec, they are already there, and are known as exploration content. The complexes you can find there are pretty much like missions, but are generally much more rewarding. And if you aren't happy with that answer, high-sec or low-sec can meet your agent needs.
Besides, how could you possibly claim with a straight face that 60m per month is a 'balanced' amount to pay in exchange for a private L4 agent that only your alliance and its friends can use?!
--
Becq Starforged
Ushra'Khan
The Flame of Freedom Burns On! |
ian666
Rave Technologies Inc.
C0VEN
|
Posted - 2008.08.29 00:22:00 -
[24]
lol right
tau ceti want more missions hehehe
|
Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
|
Posted - 2008.08.29 01:04:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Becq Starforged
There is no rational reason for a member of, say, the Caldari Navy to haul their buttocks to TCF space in order to pay TCF members to hunt down (NPC) pirates who are operating in TCF space. There is a reason for Angel Cartel to 'hire' players to pursue Cartel interests in/near Cartel space. This is why there are no agents in TCF space, but there are in Cartel space. The Cartel 'pays' for missions run on it's behalf; why shouldn't TCF pay for missions run on it's behalf, assuming such a thing were implemented?
Again, if you want to do missions in nullsec, they are already there, and are known as exploration content. The complexes you can find there are pretty much like missions, but are generally much more rewarding. And if you aren't happy with that answer, high-sec or low-sec can meet your agent needs.
Besides, how could you possibly claim with a straight face that 60m per month is a 'balanced' amount to pay in exchange for a private L4 agent that only your alliance and its friends can use?!
Large sums of cash aren't a "rational reason"? Or perhaps the idea of striking at the pirates where they live, instead of just cutting them off whenever they invade.
TCF presumably does pay for missions run on its behalf - I assume they have cheap/free fleet combat ships and capital ships for members, like most other alliances.
Complexes are great if you can find them, but doing so is incredibly inconvenient. You want to work for a bigger profit you can, if you don't then do missions.
And he did not claim that 60m a month is balanced, he claimed he "pulled it out of his ass".
------------------
Fix the forums! |
SFX Bladerunner
Naval Protection Corp
Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2008.08.29 08:56:00 -
[26]
Edited by: SFX Bladerunner on 29/08/2008 09:02:14
Edited by: SFX Bladerunner on 29/08/2008 09:00:49
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
And even if my specific example is wrong, the situation is hardly inconceivable. A cardinal sin committed by far too many games is preventing people from playing with their friends - people like doing it, and you should make it easy for them. Making L1/L2 agents possible in hard 0.0 seems like a good way of doing this.
Now see, you just didn't think about this at all did you?
You say in order to allow a newbie to play with his friend (who is more experienced) CCP should implement 0.0 agents..
So, what you are saying is that the NEWBIE with NO EXPERIENCE needs to be able to go to where the EXPERIENCED player is, to play with him?..
I'll give you a minute to let it soak in...
done?
HOW ABOUT:
NOT changing the game and let the EXPERIENCED player who KNOWS THE ROPES just head up to EMPIRE to do some MISSIONS with his newbie friend?
durrrrrrrrrrrr
edit: as I read on I noticed people already responded to it, and to that response.
I would like to say that I actually have 3 RL friends that play EVE aswell, and ive NEVER actually been in the same system as any of em. (mostly cuz they're still in empire and im in deep 0.0) but that doesn't mean I can't convo them ingame and give them pointers etc and chat about eve in general.
tbh, I would get bored awefully fast doing lvl1 missions, even if it was with a friend.. once you've done lvl4's and 0.0 it just isnt fun anymore, no matter who you do it with.
the same is true btw for dragging em out to 0.0 fresh from the shelves, you'll just scare them.
__________________________________________________
History is much like an endless waltz, the three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.. |
Tuleingel
|
Posted - 2008.08.29 12:51:00 -
[27]
Had an idea. It should be possible to give your outpost to NPC's and then they would allow everyone to dock in there (like normal NPC station) and would have AGENTS in there.
|
Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
|
Posted - 2008.08.29 13:25:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Tuleingel
Had an idea. It should be possible to give your outpost to NPC's and then they would allow everyone to dock in there (like normal NPC station) and would have AGENTS in there.
This, as long as it's your station you assign the missions and you pay the rewards.
No inhouse isk tap for you!
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
BlondieBC
7th Tribal Legion
|
Posted - 2008.08.29 14:21:00 -
[29]
I like this idea, provided agents are tied to allaince standings with various factions. This would add and interesting interaction between alliance and NPC empires.
|
procurement specialist
|
Posted - 2008.08.29 16:32:00 -
[30]
l1 and l2 missions would be great for training newbies which is why i supported this. i was in 0.0 my first week of playing eve and i greatly enjoyed it. the only problem is learning to rat and such was difficult.
yes for newbies you can take them around and pop the bs rats in the belt and such to let them finish off the small fry but if they ever want to do something when you aren't on they are stuck. a lot of times we do take newbies back to empire for a bit for training but if there were a way to spawn some small poor rats reliably for training it would be very helpful. keep in mind that many complexes take scanning which is another thing many newbies can't do.
if you wanted to sprinkle some .1 or .2 static complexes in 0.0 it would solve the same issue.
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |