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Wingophone
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Posted - 2008.08.28 18:29:00 -
[1]
On the advice of a GM I am posting this here, hoping that it will catch the eye of a dev or a bug hunter, and possibly keep someone else from making the same mistake:
A couple of days ago I modified a buy order and accidentally hit enter next to the keypad instead of decimal. We all know what happens then.  I lost a fortune (for me). GM told me TS, all sales final. Suck it up, Princess. [j/k  ]
What I would like to know is: why is there a warning if you try to set up a buy order way above the average regional price but nothing for change orders? It could be something that you could opt into (or out of) in the prefs, and I would think that it might cut down the number of angst ridden, tearful petitions that get posted by noob traders like myself.
Though, I will theorize that this bug in the game mechanics may have been kept as a pitfall for the $0.01 traders. Any thoughts?
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c4 t
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Posted - 2008.08.28 18:38:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Wingophone
On the advice of a GM I am posting this here, hoping that it will catch the eye of a dev or a bug hunter, and possibly keep someone else from making the same mistake:
A couple of days ago I modified a buy order and accidentally hit enter next to the keypad instead of decimal. We all know what happens then. I lost a fortune (for me). GM told me TS, all sales final. Suck it up, Princess. [j/k ]
What I would like to know is: why is there a warning if you try to set up a buy order way above the average regional price but nothing for change orders? It could be something that you could opt into (or out of) in the prefs, and I would think that it might cut down the number of angst ridden, tearful petitions that get posted by noob traders like myself.
Though, I will theorize that this bug in the game mechanics may have been kept as a pitfall for the $0.01 traders. Any thoughts?
not exactly on the subject thought but perhaps they should set up something that will pop up a warning if the transactional tax on a buy order, or sell order(if youre creating the sell order obviously) is greater than X amount. X amount should probably be defaulted at something on new clients. what it would be defaulted at i do not know. if something like this is created though it should be very easy to adjust. just like its very easy to turn a warning off by clicking do not show this again perhaps if this is introduced the X amount of isk tax before a warning comes up should be presented in editable form within the warning that comes up.
thankfully i havent lost money at this yet because ive always noticed some crazy number before i hit enter.
what i have done like 5 times though is enter a price but forget to enter a quantity >_<
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mostly harmless |
Clair Bear
Coalition of Nations
Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.08.28 18:42:00 -
[3]
Yup, there is definitely some danger to playing .01 isk games in laggy systems.
As far as you: having been there, done that with the market disaster (had to buy my own inventory before I was pwned rather than leaving it up for 5 minutes) I'm willing to offer you a deal. I'll contract you a few haulers full of meta 1-4 crap in a highsec Amarr station. I have a rough idea what you should be able to sell it for. If you do a good job there's a few more freighterloads of that crap I need offloaded in other regions. I'm assuming you'll keep 20% for your efforts in judging your performance. No skin off my nose if you run off with some of the junk.
Shoot me a mail if you want to go for it.
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Matalino
Gallente
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.08.28 18:42:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Wingophone
why is there a warning if you try to set up a buy order way above the average regional price but nothing for change orders?
Because CCP hasn't bothered to program one.
Sure it would be a nice feature.
In the mean time, just be extra careful when modifying orders.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.08.28 18:45:00 -
[5]
On this page there is this thread: Costly decimal mistake. Would it perhaps trouble you to join in on a recent thread covering this topic instead of an entirely new one? This way you'd avoid having some arse, me, adding salt to your wound by pointing out your reading deficiency. I mean, given the example so far, are you sure it was accidental enter hitting or you just being careless and impulsive? (Ergo, meaning the GM was right in refusing you.) However, it does need to be said that Taikun (who I tend to loathe) was very right (and very loud) about the number 1 corrective measure to this problem. Just change the default tab selection on the modify dialogue from YES to NO. It means an added mouseclick or keypress for the super elite amongst us, myself included, but it spares a lot of pain for the masses. The super elite will of course come into this thread whining about the dumbification of Eve but I think the truth is they just like their lazy ways and don't want any added step at all. And of course the Darwinism of the market interface: Alot of upcoming competitors weed themselves out rather quickly this way.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
Danari
Syncore
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Posted - 2008.08.28 18:56:00 -
[6]
Risk management says only keep operating capital in your operating account.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.08.28 19:06:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Danari
Risk management says only keep operating capital in your operating account.
A very short sighted self defeating suggestion but... to each their own. PS: As an example, you need to keep enough in your wallet to cover likely buy order volume. Depending on your activities, that still leaves enough isk at risk to do some serious damage.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
Wingophone
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Posted - 2008.08.28 19:07:00 -
[8]
In response to Shar Tegral:
I did read the thread that you referenced, I believe that that one is similar (in the crippling loss) however didn't that user say that they lost their money on the broker fee/tax, whereas I bought 3 modules at 10 times their lowest price.
Not to split hairs or anything, but one fix won't necessarily solve both problems.
In this case, it really was a mistake, I meant to put in a decimal and hit the enter key right next to it by accident. Doesn't ease the pain very much. Your idea for a fix is better than mine and would solve the problems that both myself and the other poster had.
I was told by the GM that I should post to the forums to bring this issue to the eyes of the dev team, and didn't want it confused with "me-too-ing" the comments made by the other poster.
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Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.08.28 19:08:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Danari
Risk management says only keep operating capital in your operating account.
A very short sighted self defeating suggestion but... to each their own.
PS: As an example, you need to keep enough in your wallet to cover likely buy order volume. Depending on your activities, that still leaves enough isk at risk to do some serious damage.
I have to agree with Shar on this one, Danari. Sometimes my operating capital to cover all my escrows and such, is in excess of 10b.
--
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Sarah Dent
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Posted - 2008.08.28 19:09:00 -
[10]
I work in UNIX. After one time of doing a rm / home/userID, i learned very fast to know what you are typing and to double check before hitting enter.
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Lexander Morinex
Caldari
LDD Investments
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Posted - 2008.08.28 19:15:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Danari
Risk management says only keep operating capital in your operating account.
The problem for a purist trader is that every ISK you have is operating capital. At best, keeping a little money in another fund for a 'rainy' day is fine, but that is just managing risk by diversification of assets.
This broker fee error thing is actually a very annoying feature of the game. People might argue that it separates the 'smart' from the 'stupid', but I would argue against that. Many of the smartest people I know make little tiny mistakes like this all the time. The problem is that it is a tiny error that has an effect all out of kilter with the nature of the error.
It basically requires more time and effort to be allocated to careful watching of the decimals. This is basically an accounting function, something you hire people to do who need jobs. It is 'work' in the traditional sense and not an aspect of 'playing a game'. So I would hope they would eventually provide some basic protection against it. If people ignore the warning, then that is the price they pay.
- Lexander Morinex
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.08.28 19:17:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Wingophone
YourTaikun's idea for a fix is better than mine and would solve the problems that both myself and the other poster had.
Fixed it for you. And the accident you have I also have had happen. You learn to adopt methods of operating suited to your environment especially, sadly, when those who control the environment refuse to make so small a change. (May be it gets in the way of pulling the tab on a beer or something.) PS: Liked the "mea culpa" and "stfu" mixture you handed back to me. Much props to you.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.08.28 19:51:00 -
[13]
Ask anyone who designs user interfaces and they'll tell you that even an extra click of yes or no won't solve the problem of your mind automating the task at hand.. which really is what leads to errors like these.
Learn from your mistake, and double check your entries. |
Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.08.28 20:00:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
Ask anyone who designs user interfaces and they'll tell you that even an extra click of yes or no won't solve the problem of your mind automating the task at hand.. which really is what leads to errors like these.
Learn from your mistake, and double check your entries.
/signed
--
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Absimi Liard
Gallente
Confederate Miners Union of Eve
space weaponry and trade
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Posted - 2008.08.28 20:03:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Sarah Dent
I work in UNIX. After one time of doing a rm / home/userID, i learned very fast to know what you are typing and to double check before hitting enter.
God bless unixen and a root prompt.
Best EVE tutorial evar. (well, it won't teach you how to do anything in the game, but it sure teaches you the right amount of paranoia)
-abs (debian guy . . . mostly)
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Clair Bear
Coalition of Nations
Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.08.28 20:30:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Sarah Dent
I work in UNIX. After one time of doing a rm / home/userID, i learned very fast to know what you are typing and to double check before hitting enter.
Don't you mean rm -rf ~ or rm -f ~/* instead?
In the Olden Days of unix, back when unlink(1) (not to mention unlink(2)) didn't have all sorts of newbie guard rails I remember working on an application which made (and subsequently removed) links in /dev as root. One time a developer made a mistake which left the file name to be unlinked empty... Good times, good times.
Translation for the non-unix geeks: /dev is where unix keeps much of its brains. That's where special files for various processes and commands to get at hard drives and terminals are at. Unlinking /dev/ meant the whole directory was instantly removed from the file system, with no way to get at any child file or directory. So no logging on, no restoring from a tape device, no nothing unless you knew exactly how to recreate those devices by their major and minor numbers and already had a root prompt.
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Shadarles
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Posted - 2008.08.28 20:41:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Shadarles on 28/08/2008 20:41:26
Originally by: Treelox
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
Ask anyone who designs user interfaces and they'll tell you that even an extra click of yes or no won't solve the problem of your mind automating the task at hand.. which really is what leads to errors like these.
Learn from your mistake, and double check your entries.
/signed
/signed
I am so sick of people who are careless lazy coming here asking to add more annoyances into the trading process.
Don't penalize me with added confirmation windows because you don't double check what you're doing. Sure, an optional confirmation would be OK, but honestly you should be taking your time and double checking your numbers before you hit enter anyhow. You also shouldn't be rushing to hit keys and mishitting them.
Above all else, do not bounce staplers on your keyboard! Especially of the dancing variety!
EDIT> Damn forum switched my default character yet again, 10th time in 2 days. ARg.
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Hieronimus Rex
Minmatar
Infinitus Sapientia
New Eden Research
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Posted - 2008.08.28 23:40:00 -
[18]
risk vs. reward in trading (bigger orders/wallet = bigger risk), working as intended 
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Mike'P
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Posted - 2008.08.28 23:59:00 -
[19]
Actually, although it hasn't happened to me in a while, I take issue with this whole, erm, issue.
We are forced to work through a broker for our orders, and we pay a percentage for that.
However, said broker never speaks up and says 'er, hang on, that's not really a sensible change to make on your order.'
I think this is smoke and mirrors on the part of CCP - the interface encourages these errors because it is laggy and broken.
Petition that instead.
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Nemi Lethal
Gallente
DarkStar Armada
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Posted - 2008.08.29 01:43:00 -
[20]
Sorry to hear about the wrong entry thing, i've had this happen twice before lost about 200mil total, I only thank god I was trading in smaller quantities or id be dead broke.
How much was lost alltogether?
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.08.29 04:01:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Mike'P
However, said broker never speaks up and says 'er, hang on, that's not really a sensible change to make on your order.'
And do you pipe up when someone makes a mistake in your favor and buys a hammerhead II for 8mil instead of 800k
...nah didn't think so. |
Shadarle
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Posted - 2008.08.29 05:00:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Mike'P
Actually, although it hasn't happened to me in a while, I take issue with this whole, erm, issue.
We are forced to work through a broker for our orders, and we pay a percentage for that.
However, said broker never speaks up and says 'er, hang on, that's not really a sensible change to make on your order.'
I think this is smoke and mirrors on the part of CCP - the interface encourages these errors because it is laggy and broken.
Petition that instead.
I wish people would stop blaming CCP because they were too lazy or too hasty to type in numbers accurately. You have no one to blame but yourself!
If the game is laggy then you should be doubly on guard about typos not less so. I've never understood this line of complaint as lag means I have even more time to wait and look at what I typed. I can't believe people actually hit enter when typing a number before they even see the number pop up on the screen. IMO people who do deserve to lose a lot of their money as the risk associated with the time saving reward for moving so fast.
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Ricdics
Corporate Placement Holding
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Posted - 2008.08.29 05:30:00 -
[23]
Have to agree with Shadarle here. Sure it's happened to me a couple of times but only ever on tiny orders. This is because when dealing with anything over a 1m I double check my numbers are right.
People can't expect CCP to hold their hands forever. Frankly I wish the warnings for selling/buy under/above regional average were never designed either as it gives stupid people protection. Make a mistake, you should be paying for it. |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.08.29 08:59:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
The super elite will of course come into this thread whining about the dumbification of Eve but I think the truth is they just like their lazy ways and don't want any added step at all.
Sadly, QFT.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
Midas Man
Caldari
Dzark Asylum
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Posted - 2008.08.29 09:18:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Wingophone
On the advice of a GM I am posting this here, hoping that it will catch the eye of a dev or a bug hunter, and possibly keep someone else from making the same mistake:
A couple of days ago I modified a buy order and accidentally hit enter next to the keypad instead of decimal. We all know what happens then. I lost a fortune (for me). GM told me TS, all sales final. Suck it up, Princess. [j/k ]
What I would like to know is: why is there a warning if you try to set up a buy order way above the average regional price but nothing for change orders? It could be something that you could opt into (or out of) in the prefs, and I would think that it might cut down the number of angst ridden, tearful petitions that get posted by noob traders like myself.
Though, I will theorize that this bug in the game mechanics may have been kept as a pitfall for the $0.01 traders. Any thoughts?
Wouldn't happen to have been Pandamonium's would it if it was Tyvm
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Gawain Hill
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Posted - 2008.08.29 11:11:00 -
[26]
i personally avoid this mistake by using the period key next to all the letters (it's nice and far away from the enter key unlike the decimal point on the number pad). I do frequently turn off my computer when i slip and hit the off button that's next to the return key on the keyboard tried everythin to get rid of it even pliers :D
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Block Ukx
H A V O C
The Requiem
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Posted - 2008.08.29 13:00:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Wingophone
A couple of days ago I modified a buy order and accidentally hit enter next to the keypad instead of decimal. ...
This makes no sense to me. If you hit <enter> instead of <.> that means you entered a whole number instead of a decimal. For example, you wanted to type 1234.98, instead you entered 1234<enter>.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.08.29 13:45:00 -
[28]
I'm going to suppose that he was modifying the price in the middle. Sometimes it is easy to delete the decimal point as you are editing.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
Wingophone
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Posted - 2008.08.29 14:56:00 -
[29]
I'm a happy camper...this will apparently be fixed in the patch on Tuesday! 
Thanks to all those who offered constructive advice! (Will be using an alt as a safety deposit box from now on...)
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Roguehalo
Caldari
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.08.29 15:41:00 -
[30]
hmm reminds me of the time i bought 4 caracals for 320m each.
playing Eve after a couple of bottles of plonk ftw!!
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