Originally by: Wingophone

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On the advice of a GM I am posting this here, hoping that it will catch the eye of a dev or a bug hunter, and possibly keep someone else from making the same mistake:

A couple of days ago I modified a buy order and accidentally hit enter next to the keypad instead of decimal. We all know what happens then. I lost a fortune (for me). GM told me TS, all sales final. Suck it up, Princess. [j/k ]

What I would like to know is: why is there a warning if you try to set up a buy order way above the average regional price but nothing for change orders? It could be something that you could opt into (or out of) in the prefs, and I would think that it might cut down the number of angst ridden, tearful petitions that get posted by noob traders like myself.

Though, I will theorize that this bug in the game mechanics may have been kept as a pitfall for the $0.01 traders. Any thoughts?

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Originally by: Wingophone

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why is there a warning if you try to set up a buy order way above the average regional price but nothing for change orders?

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To Shar -verb:
 1 - To say what you mean.
 2 - To say what it means.
 3 - To say something mean.

To Shar -verb:
 1 - To say what you mean.
 2 - To say what it means.
 3 - To say something mean.

Originally by: Shar Tegral

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Originally by: Danari

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Risk management says only keep operating capital in your operating account.

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A very short sighted self defeating suggestion but... to each their own.

PS: As an example, you need to keep enough in your wallet to cover likely buy order volume. Depending on your activities, that still leaves enough isk at risk to do some serious damage.

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Originally by: Danari

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Risk management says only keep operating capital in your operating account.

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Originally by: Wingophone

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YourTaikun's idea for a fix is better than mine and would solve the problems that both myself and the other poster had.

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Fixed it for you.

And the accident you have I also have had happen. You learn to adopt methods of operating suited to your environment especially, sadly, when those who control the environment refuse to make so small a change. (May be it gets in the way of pulling the tab on a beer or something.)

PS: Liked the "mea culpa" and "stfu" mixture you handed back to me. Much props to you.

To Shar -verb:
 1 - To say what you mean.
 2 - To say what it means.
 3 - To say something mean.

Originally by: Kazzac Elentria

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Ask anyone who designs user interfaces and they'll tell you that even an extra click of yes or no won't solve the problem of your mind automating the task at hand.. which really is what leads to errors like these.

Learn from your mistake, and double check your entries.

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Originally by: Sarah Dent

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I work in UNIX. After one time of doing a rm / home/userID, i learned very fast to know what you are typing and to double check before hitting enter.

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Originally by: Sarah Dent

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I work in UNIX. After one time of doing a rm / home/userID, i learned very fast to know what you are typing and to double check before hitting enter.

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Originally by: Treelox

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Originally by: Kazzac Elentria

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Ask anyone who designs user interfaces and they'll tell you that even an extra click of yes or no won't solve the problem of your mind automating the task at hand.. which really is what leads to errors like these.

Learn from your mistake, and double check your entries.

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/signed

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Originally by: Mike'P

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However, said broker never speaks up and says 'er, hang on, that's not really a sensible change to make on your order.'

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Originally by: Mike'P

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Actually, although it hasn't happened to me in a while, I take issue with this whole, erm, issue.

We are forced to work through a broker for our orders, and we pay a percentage for that.

However, said broker never speaks up and says 'er, hang on, that's not really a sensible change to make on your order.'

I think this is smoke and mirrors on the part of CCP - the interface encourages these errors because it is laggy and broken.

Petition that instead.

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To Shar -verb:
 1 - To say what you mean.
 2 - To say what it means.
 3 - To say something mean.

Originally by: Wingophone

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On the advice of a GM I am posting this here, hoping that it will catch the eye of a dev or a bug hunter, and possibly keep someone else from making the same mistake:

A couple of days ago I modified a buy order and accidentally hit enter next to the keypad instead of decimal. We all know what happens then. I lost a fortune (for me). GM told me TS, all sales final. Suck it up, Princess. [j/k ]

What I would like to know is: why is there a warning if you try to set up a buy order way above the average regional price but nothing for change orders? It could be something that you could opt into (or out of) in the prefs, and I would think that it might cut down the number of angst ridden, tearful petitions that get posted by noob traders like myself.

Though, I will theorize that this bug in the game mechanics may have been kept as a pitfall for the $0.01 traders. Any thoughts?

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Originally by: Wingophone

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A couple of days ago I modified a buy order and accidentally hit enter next to the keypad instead of decimal. ...

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To Shar -verb:
 1 - To say what you mean.
 2 - To say what it means.
 3 - To say something mean.

Quote:

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# A warning message now pops up when trying to modify a market order more than 100% above the regional average.

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Originally by: Piru Industrial

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Quote:

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# A warning message now pops up when trying to modify a market order more than 100% above the regional average.

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Originally by: Shadarle

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Originally by: Piru Industrial

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Quote:

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# A warning message now pops up when trying to modify a market order more than 100% above the regional average.

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And I'm going to bet there is no way to disable this warning?

*sighs*

A change that hurts people who took their time and did everything right in order to help those who are too lazy to do the same. I love rewarding bad behavior and punishing good behavior, don't you?

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Originally by: Piru Industrial

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just out of curiosity, how often make your buy orders hundreds of percent higher than the regional average? also under what circumstances. example plz i am curious.

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Originally by: Piru Industrial

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Edited by: Piru Industrial on 29/08/2008 17:42:59

Originally by: Shadarle

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Originally by: Piru Industrial

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Quote:

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# A warning message now pops up when trying to modify a market order more than 100% above the regional average.

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And I'm going to bet there is no way to disable this warning?

*sighs*

A change that hurts people who took their time and did everything right in order to help those who are too lazy to do the same. I love rewarding bad behavior and punishing good behavior, don't you?

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just out of curiosity, how often make your buy orders hundreds of percent higher than the regional average? also under what circumstances. example plz i am curious.

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Originally by: Treelox

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Originally by: Piru Industrial

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just out of curiosity, how often make your buy orders hundreds of percent higher than the regional average? also under what circumstances. example plz i am curious.

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While I dont do it with buy orders, I do it sometimes with sell orders. Since sometimes someone has manipulated the regional price down below where I think it should be.

;)

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Originally by: Shadarle

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But perhaps the reason you can't think of any is the best reason for me not to explain them, giving away valuable trading techniques is something I tend to dislike doing. I also know a few people will come here thinking I'm lying about this, but I'm sure at least a few people here do the exact same thing I do (I know because I compete with them).

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To Shar -verb:
 1 - To say what you mean.
 2 - To say what it means.
 3 - To say something mean.

Originally by: Shar Tegral

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Originally by: Treelox

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/me whistles innocently having no idea what Shadarle is talking about.

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Dammit, you stole my line.
I was so going to whistle that!

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Originally by: Syath

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Therefore stop updating your orders every 3 minutes and buy a life :)

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Originally by: Treelox

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Originally by: Shadarle

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But perhaps the reason you can't think of any is the best reason for me not to explain them, giving away valuable trading techniques is something I tend to dislike doing. I also know a few people will come here thinking I'm lying about this, but I'm sure at least a few people here do the exact same thing I do (I know because I compete with them).

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/me whistles innocently having no idea what Shadarle is talking about.

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Originally by: Syath

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Honestly the more you update your orders the higher chance there is that you will screw up. Now statistically speaking if you were too not change your orders as much then it would be a lot less likely to happen. Therefore stop updating your orders every 3 minutes and buy a life :)

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Originally by: Kazzac Elentria

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And do you pipe up when someone makes a mistake in your favor and buys a hammerhead II for 8mil instead of 800k

...nah didn't think so.

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Originally by: Mike'P

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Originally by: Kazzac Elentria

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And do you pipe up when someone makes a mistake in your favor and buys a hammerhead II for 8mil instead of 800k

...nah didn't think so.

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No, I don't, because I've made the same errors, but I do tell them to petition it.

Contrary to the opinions of certain toons, I take issue with an interface that permits a new player to lose all of their *very hard earned* wealth by missing their backspace key and hitting the enter key instead - it's just bad. Reading the original post, you'll notice that a GM basically asked the
OP to post here to create more traction for a dev to do something about it.

And I say again, from a roleplay point of view: if you have to pay a broker, I think it is reasonable to expect that broker to interject if you do something that makes no sense.

If there was an option to bypass the broker, fair enough - but there isn't.

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Now, now Shadarle, that example was a bit bombastic. No one is asking for double error trapping or some such. However there does need to be something that does avoid the all to common happenstance of accidental order entry. And the fact that it is a common non-idiotic accident is far more believable than your claim of having lost so little to it.

I'm not saying you are lying but as you often say, you yourself can not be used as the example or litmus test of "average" or "normal" in Eve. (Mostly because your ego won't let you fall into those categories... )

And I, like yourself, really hope there is a "disable" check box to the average error trap. But that hope, and fear, does not diminish the honest necessity this change is filling. Arguments to the contrary are just intellectually dishonest.

To Shar -verb:
 1 - To say what you mean.
 2 - To say what it means.
 3 - To say something mean.

Originally by: Shar Tegral

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However there does need to be something that does avoid the all to common happenstance of accidental order entry.

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Originally by: Shar Tegral

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Now, now Shadarle, that example was a bit bombastic. No one is asking for double error trapping or some such. However there does need to be something that does avoid the all to common happenstance of accidental order entry. And the fact that it is a common non-idiotic accident is far more believable than your claim of having lost so little to it.

I'm not saying you are lying but as you often say, you yourself can not be used as the example or litmus test of "average" or "normal" in Eve. (Mostly because your ego won't let you fall into those categories... )

And I, like yourself, really hope there is a "disable" check box to the average error trap. But that hope, and fear, does not diminish the honest necessity this change is filling. Arguments to the contrary are just intellectually dishonest.

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To Shar -verb:
 1 - To say what you mean.
 2 - To say what it means.
 3 - To say something mean.

Originally by: Shar Tegral

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But this error doesn't just happen due to idiocy.

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Originally by: Shadarle

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I tend to recall you agreeing completely with me when it was Taikun who was arguing for there to be safeguards all over, now that it is someone else you seem to be on the other side of this.

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You are mistaken. I agreed with Taikun's point while disagreeing with Taikun himself. (You will also find my immense embarrassment at agreeing with him while seeing the copious amounts of vitriol that he posted in that thread.)

The problem is you simply do not care to admit that it can be an honest mistake that is in part due to a fundamental flaw in the interface. You'd rather just call everyone some form of negative stereotype (all not Shadarle) and blame them for something that quite simply may not be their fault.

I won't even touch upon your convenience bias over this matter. It has not been changed, you may find things are not as you fear. Granted they may be worse but at this point tough. It is happening regardless.

I just wonder if someone ran out of beer and decided to fix this matter while waiting for more.

To Shar -verb:
 1 - To say what you mean.
 2 - To say what it means.
 3 - To say something mean.

Originally by: Shar Tegral

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The problem is you simply do not care to admit that it can be an honest mistake that is in part due to a fundamental flaw in the interface.

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To Shar -verb:
 1 - To say what you mean.
 2 - To say what it means.
 3 - To say something mean.

Originally by: Shar Tegral

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Originally by: Shadarle

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Because it's human error and human error can cause any number of problem, you cannot possibly expect CCP to build in double checks for every possible human error or "honest mistakes" as you call them.

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No I don't expect them to, never have. But does this mean all checks should be removed? While I joke about removing all safety labels from the world would depopulate the idiots pretty quickly... such a depopulation of Eve would simply be disastrous.

So the essential truth is that CCP is satisfying the majority of its customers with a small feature while risking irking the ever so lovable you.

Even you can do that math.

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To Shar -verb:
 1 - To say what you mean.
 2 - To say what it means.
 3 - To say something mean.

Originally by: Shar Tegral

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So the essential truth is that CCP is satisfying the majority of its customers with a small feature while risking irking the ever so lovable you.[/justify]

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Originally by: Clair Bear

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Originally by: Sarah Dent

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I work in UNIX. After one time of doing a rm / home/userID, i learned very fast to know what you are typing and to double check before hitting enter.

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Don't you mean rm -rf ~ or rm -f ~/* instead?

In the Olden Days of unix, back when unlink(1) (not to mention unlink(2)) didn't have all sorts of newbie guard rails I remember working on an application which made (and subsequently removed) links in /dev as root. One time a developer made a mistake which left the file name to be unlinked empty... Good times, good times.

Translation for the non-unix geeks: /dev is where unix keeps much of its brains. That's where special files for various processes and commands to get at hard drives and terminals are at. Unlinking /dev/ meant the whole directory was instantly removed from the file system, with no way to get at any child file or directory. So no logging on, no restoring from a tape device, no nothing unless you knew exactly how to recreate those devices by their major and minor numbers and already had a root prompt.

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To Shar -verb:
 1 - To say what you mean.
 2 - To say what it means.
 3 - To say something mean.