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Sykes
Minmatar
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.08.29 21:51:00 -
[31]
Who then?
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Stitcher
Caldari
Duty.
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Posted - 2008.08.29 21:54:00 -
[32]
What, like we're supposed to KNOW? Space and Spirits, pilot have you never heard the term "rhetoric"?
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Captain Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain. |
Sykes
Minmatar
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.08.29 21:57:00 -
[33]
Ah OK, rhetoric, fair enough :)
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SOFcode Z777
Caldari
Human Enhancement Tech.
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Posted - 2008.08.29 22:15:00 -
[34]
 Originally by: Stitcher
What, like we're supposed to KNOW? Space and Spirits, pilot have you never heard the term "rhetoric"?
To start, an observation, no entity in this universe is immune to extermination. There will always be someone bigger that eventually will find enough importance to eliminate a weaker one.
The biggest question is to find this reason and be good enough to be noted by the stronger then you, not the weaker.
So, I don't see it as a rethoric, the extermination of any entity is a real possibility.
About the term rhetoric itself, it saddens me to see that the anarchist movement seems to have lost their biggest weapon , exactly "rhetoric" itself.
I'm yet to read an anarchist making one of those breath-taking speeches as I once heard when preparing myself to the capsuler life.
Sofcode z777
CEO Human Enhancement Tech. H.E.T
Lieutenant Colonel Caldari State
Mordus Legion Loyalist
|
d'hofren
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.08.29 22:22:00 -
[35]
Edited by: d''hofren on 29/08/2008 22:26:08
Originally by: Victoria Ehr
Hate is an appropriate word to use for groups such as terrorists, anarchists, murderers, those who seek to destroy the order of any society. Just as a citizen who has lost a son or daughter needlessly to them. These kind of people step out of the laws of war between nations and they exploit laws and order for their own agenda.
I will Cheer when they have been exterminated.
Hate, my dear is an abstract that purely shows we are effecting the caldari militia as we intended.
What you don't seem to understand I fight for the underclass, the non pod pilots, becuause to quote this yellowed paper book beside me, (yes paper, anachronistic I know), that little tome says.... If there is hope... it lies in the proles
You, Victoria darling, fight for the state. Oppression, social ghettoism, xenophobia, oppression by the moneyed few.
I fight for the grovelling poor gallente on caldari prime as they cower under the street corner militias rubberized heel.
I fight for the cladari denied the right to make his place in null sec by the inclosurist alliances of today.
I fight for the matari slave who, gifted and talented as she might be, will never rise to the ranks of the imortal pod pilot you and I are.
I fight for the prole and I fight with free will.
To quote a text quoted on our internal comnet by a supporting comrade, "it is not light that is needed, but fire", and believe me our supporters are numerous. The SF star is scratched on many a door post throughout the galaxy and where the star shines, hope burns.
If I chose wrong, I chose to the best of my freewill. Before you say it,we differ on this, see you in hell becuase the way the universe stands today, we are there already.
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d'hofren
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.08.29 22:23:00 -
[36]
Edited by: d''hofren on 29/08/2008 22:24:44
Edited by: d''hofren on 29/08/2008 22:24:04
meh...
comms error, galnet access from here is a bit shoddy.
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Skogen Gump
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.08.29 23:13:00 -
[37]
Originally by: SOFcode Z777
About the term rhetoric itself, it saddens me to see that the anarchist movement seems to have lost their biggest weapon , exactly "rhetoric" itself.
Only empty rhetoric is in danger, the words of Jericho are confirmed by its actions.
We are the plowshare become swords; you cannot make swords without words.
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SOFcode Z777
Caldari
Human Enhancement Tech.
|
Posted - 2008.08.29 23:27:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Skogen Gump
Originally by: SOFcode Z777
About the term rhetoric itself, it saddens me to see that the anarchist movement seems to have lost their biggest weapon , exactly "rhetoric" itself.
Only empty rhetoric is in danger, the words of Jericho are confirmed by its actions.
We are the plowshare become swords; you cannot make swords without words.
The day that the anarchists loses words for only actions, is the day that you'll become like thousands and thousands of other entities at space that can do equal and even much more efficient actions without the universe even knowing about them.
The plowshare becoming swords... almost there but not even close from what it once was.
Sofcode z777
CEO Human Enhancement Tech. H.E.T
Lieutenant Colonel Caldari State
Mordus Legion Loyalist
|
Dex Nederland
Caldari
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
|
Posted - 2008.08.30 00:02:00 -
[39]
Originally by: d'hofren
I fight for the Caldari denied the right to make his place in null sec by the inclosurist alliances of today.
Then stop attacking Caldari corporations attempting to defend the useful development of Black Rise for the purposes of a multitude of corporations and head into Pure Blind, Cloud Ring, Tribute, Vale of the Silent, or Geminate. You are preventing Caldari corporations from even maintaining high security space operations.
Originally by: d'hofren
I fight for the grovelling poor Gallente on Caldari Prime as they cower under the street corner militias rubberized heel.
Stop calling it Caldari Prime if you don't think a Caldari dirt-side government should control the planet. Those militias are largely made up of what you would have been calling grovelling poor Caldari 3 months ago by the way. They are no longer grovelling.
Originally by: d'hofren
You... fight for the state. Oppression, social ghettoism, xenophobia, oppression by the moneyed few.
Oppression, you have this twice so I am not sure what the first one means unless it is also a reference to the second instance. I will address the second instance. The corporations seem to many on the outside to be by their very nature oppressive; this is however wrong. Some corporations have had poor leaders who before being placed in executive positions had not lead much of anything. Their appointments were political, Heth has changed this to some degree and the collapsing economy have shown the failure of the corrupt and oppressive CEOs. Your attacks against State organizations only makes worse an already bad situation and fuels the State's need for strong security over liberties.
You also need to realize that unlike in Gallente culture, the individual Caldari is not all important. His family, his clan, his corporation comes before self. This is not about laboring to make a small group of executives richer (one of Tibus Heth's points), it is about ensuring the whole is successful and continues to survive. So what you may see as oppression is the freewill choice of the members of the culture to put something before self. Tibus Heth states he is working for the Caldari people and largely with their approval. It is those moneyed few and the capsuleers who have the most to lose with Heth in power and the average worker the most to gain. (sarcasm) But we know better, we know what is best for those living and working on the planets, moons, stations, and starships. (end sarcasm)
The Gallente & Minmatar can prove to be just as xenophobic, as demonstrated by many of them here on IGS. Am I xenophobic, a bit; but in truth I look for those with ability and drive to better the corporation I run, hopefully in the process improving the whole corporation's circumstances. Most people are xenophobic, stereotyping individuals based on their place of origin and if they don't like that place of origin they tend to not like those people in general.
My xenophobia is based on a fear that a foreign government will involve itself in the affairs of mine and other Caldari corporations. It appears that such a fear is well founded.
The last term, "social ghettoism", I will have to ask you to define as my Galnet reference material produces a definition that I don't believe you meant.
As to the success of SF, congratulations on hindering the development of what could become the begins of a return to the Caldari corporate ideal.
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d'hofren
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.08.30 01:10:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Dex Nederland
Originally by: d'hofren
I fight for the Caldari denied the right to make his place in null sec by the inclosurist alliances of today.
Then stop attacking Caldari corporations attempting to defend the useful development of Black Rise for the purposes of a multitude of corporations and head into Pure Blind, Cloud Ring, Tribute, Vale of the Silent, or Geminate. You are preventing Caldari corporations from even maintaining high security space operations.
It's strange you should mention that but my first true warfare was as part of NORAD, trying to keep outer ring clean for all who wanted to live there. Reember back then all those who wanted access just had to invest effort.
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Skogen Gump
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.08.30 01:47:00 -
[41]
Originally by: SOFcode Z777
The day that the anarchists loses words for only actions, is the day that you'll become like thousands and thousands of other entities at space that can do equal and even much more efficient actions without the universe even knowing about them.
The plowshare becoming swords... almost there but not even close from what it once was.
Sofcode z777
CEO Human Enhancement Tech. H.E.T
Lieutenant Colonel Caldari State
Mordus Legion Loyalist
We clearly didn't lose the words, and we clearly haven't lost the actions; but thank you for your benefaction.
|
SOFcode Z777
Caldari
Human Enhancement Tech.
|
Posted - 2008.08.30 02:29:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Skogen Gump
We clearly didn't lose the words, and we clearly haven't lost the actions; but thank you for your benefaction.
Mmmm my apologies than, it might be that your words just became as small as your actions at the present day.
As I said, I was used to be amused by War Diaries of battles where an accomplishment so small as fighting a 20 men entity could be at least made to look good with the stream pearls of words falling from Miss Constantine's lips.
But I'm clearly mistaken as those, are things of the past, as much as your anti-territorial philosophy after siding with territorial governments. I'll return to learn from your alliance from the holorells of past and shall leave your words and actions of the present at rest where they belong now.
SOFcode z777
CEO Human Enhancement Tech. H.E.T
Lieutenant Colonel Caldari State
Mordus Legion Loyalist
|
The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.08.30 12:55:00 -
[43]
Originally by: SOFcode Z777
But I'm clearly mistaken as those, are things of the past, as much as your anti-territorial philosophy after siding with territorial governments. I'll return to learn from your alliance from the holorells of past and shall leave your words and actions of the present at rest where they belong now.
Some things are generally useful indicators of the success of the Star Fraction when it comes to discomfiting our enemies. One, particularly common symptom, is the 'Your glory days, which were admittedly great indeed, are long gone.' gambit coupled with the 'Your principles, which were fine in theory, have been forgotten.' play. Enemies of all stripes and hues of political and military competence and power have deployed this against us when they find they have failed to deflect us with force in space and they see that our arguments are gaining ground.
Some of these people have been the equivalent of the intestinal disease of a root-chewing wild hog when it comes to potency in either the crafts of war or the practice of rhetoric. Others have been in their own corrupt fashion military colossi or practioners of the Ciceronian arts to be admired even while countered with all the cunning we can muster. Some, occasionally, have combined those attributes and been reckoned mighty opponents indeed.
I am not sure I care to say where SOFcode Z777 fits in this spectrum but I fear that I do not detect the sign and spoor of a titan undoubted in either the arena of warfare or the theatre of persuasion.
On to other matters, I see that some capsuleers delude themselves that the militia is the best means to reinvigorate the 'Caldari corporate ideal'. Some even seem to believe that Heth is the answer to the corrupting nature of the Caldari State. As if concentrating power in the hands of one person is the answer to the ailments and stupidities that flow from concentrating power in the hands of a few people.
Further, it appears to be seriously suggested that the adventurist occupation of an entire region by a territorial power, with a militarist philosophy and a vertically-constituted command economy that is a sick parody of a free market, is the one true way to free space for independents. Nonsense. Let us be clear on one point that I feel some have misunderstood: The Star Fraction considers the current regime in the Caldari State to be the logical development of the corrupt regime that preceded it. The Caldari State has for too long been out of balance with the people who make up the vast majority of its inhabitants.
Love of family? Yes, this is a Caldari ideal. It is also an anarchist ideal. Amity and loyalty to one's associates? Yes, this is a Caldari ideal. It is also an anarchist ideal. Love of one's people? Yes, this is a Caldari ideal. It is also an anarchist ideal. For an anarchist all the peoples of the cluster are worthy of love and friendship. This being so, is it not absurd to the point of perversity to suggest that an anarchist should make an exception and not love his own people?
So far as the individual is concerned. It is quite clear to me that many Caldari recognise that a prime duty of life is to recognise one's own interests and to act accordingly. Those Caldari who are able to exercise these interests in freedom continue to honour all those things they love because they see it as in their interest. They do so without harming others. Those Caldari who are trapped in the State while dimly perceiving their interests generally have three choices: rebel, submit to slavery or enslave others. Those Caldari who can in no way be considered physically trapped must consider that they have allowed themselves to be infected by outdated memes and subject their beliefs to scrutiny. A refusal to undertake so basic a human activity as self-reflection tends to give moral absolution to those opposing with violence any who would deny freedom to others even as they surrender their own.
The Cosmopolite
The Star Fraction Communications Portal |
SOFcode Z777
Caldari
Human Enhancement Tech.
|
Posted - 2008.08.30 16:00:00 -
[44]
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
'Your glory days, which were admittedly great indeed, are long gone.' gambit coupled with the 'Your principles, which were fine in theory, have been forgotten.'
I know I hit a nerve there old man. Truth hurts. Even I feel a bit sorry to write this, I think I may have touched a very emotional point for an old organization that just seeks a meaning to exist still.
I shall be a little more human in this regard.
Jade Constantine is a good pilot, and has been a reference of endurance, perseverance and somehow an icon of this Universe. My admiration for her remains as much as my despise to her subordinates such as you old man, trying to reach a little of her glory without minimum chance to even get closer.
Regarding me, don't concern yourself... With less than an year at space, I'm sure that history will begin to be formed to the future and I'm not least concerned with it. My duty is to the State here and now and the State will recognize or not my history as one worthy of as many words as you bother to write, apprentice of an anarchist.
The present speaks for itself.
And I'll get the advantage to use this communiquT to something more expressive, which is to congratulate the soldiers of the Caldari State who, as we speak have joined us to take back one of our systems from the enemy hands.
To all who participate on daily operations and knows how much efforts does it take, I salute you!
For the State!
SOFcode z777
CEO Human Enhancement Tech. H.E.T
Lieutenant Colonel Caldari State
Mordus Legion Loyalist
|
The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.08.30 17:40:00 -
[45]
* The Cosmopolite gives vent to a great lusty roar of laughter and can be seen holding his midriff with one hand while waving around a half-cigar, smouldering and emitting a trail of purple smoke, with the other...
Ah, dear me.
I think an ancient Caldari poem of the early Raata period is only appropriate at this juncture:
Harsh sound û
hail spattering
my traveller's hat.
...The Cosmopolite draws on his cigar, still chuckling and snorting good-humoured gouts of smoke from his nostrils, before cutting off the transmission.
The Star Fraction Communications Portal |
SOFcode Z777
Caldari
Human Enhancement Tech.
|
Posted - 2008.08.30 18:03:00 -
[46]
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
* The Cosmopolite gives vent to a great lusty roar of laughter and can be seen holding his midriff with one hand while waving around a half-cigar, smouldering and emitting a trail of purple smoke, with the other...
Ah, dear me.
I think an ancient Caldari poem of the early Raata period is only appropriate at this juncture:
Harsh sound û
hail spattering
my traveller's hat.
...The Cosmopolite draws on his cigar, still chuckling and snorting good-humoured gouts of smoke from his nostrils, before cutting off the transmission.
I'm always glad to be proven right.. nothing else to expect just chuckles and half-cigars...
And yet we hope that the smoke will be flavoured... in vain.
SOFcode z777
CEO Human Enhancement Tech. H.E.T
Lieutenant Colonel Caldari State
Mordus Legion Loyalist
|
Devilish Ledoux
Caldari
Ledoux Holdings
|
Posted - 2008.08.30 19:10:00 -
[47]
Originally by: SOFcode Z777
I'm always glad to be proven right.. nothing else to expect just chuckles and half-cigars...
What's it like to only see that which you want to see?
_
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SOFcode Z777
Caldari
Human Enhancement Tech.
|
Posted - 2008.08.30 19:27:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Devilish Ledoux
What's it like to only see that which you want to see?
I'll leave the anarchists to answer that, it's their expertise after all.
Also they are good to see what's not even there, so you'll have a bonus on this subjective question of yours.
SOFcode z777
CEO Human Enhancement Tech. H.E.T
Lieutenant Colonel Caldari State
Mordus Legion Loyalist.
|
Imiarr Timshae
Caldari
Funny Men In Funny Hats
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Posted - 2008.08.30 22:46:00 -
[49]
As a totally unrelated neutral to any/all corporations in this discussion, and being completely irellevant to factional warfare, I think I am in the unique position to say :
Its just a game.
But I shall not patronise you by saying "Chill out." You do as you please.
|
Jay Marshall
Caldari
Walks Forever Trade Inc
|
Posted - 2008.08.30 22:47:00 -
[50]
Just a aside but the title of your system message is misleading. I thought that SF was standing against all militias, yet it seems that all you talk of is taking out the Caldari corps that have joined into the fray.
Are you also not eliminating Gallanete, Minmatar and Amarrian militias?
------------------------
CEO
Walks Forever Trade Inc
|
Gorion Wassenar
Caldari
Stimulus
|
Posted - 2008.08.31 07:39:00 -
[51]
Originally by: SOFcode Z777
I'm always glad to be proven right.. nothing else to expect just chuckles and half-cigars...
And yet we hope that the smoke will be flavored... in vain.
*Laughs* I honestly don't think that you understand how often that poor, worn out argument has been tossed in front of the Fractionieers in the minute hopes that the poor dead thing might spring to life and suddenly, against all hope, carry your opinion to victory.
My stars, its like looking at a distorted reflection of myself from years past but uglier. Is this much as I was then eh Cosmo?
-----
*results may vary*
|
Victoria Ehr
Caldari
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2008.08.31 10:40:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Imiarr Timshae
Its just a game.
But I shall not patronise you by saying "Chill out." You do as you please.
I beg your pardon Sir, but what may be a "game" to you is very serious to those who care.
There are people suffering under the wicked guise of so called freedom fighters. They are terrorists...anarchists that seek only to destroy our way of life.
You should take it more seriously.
--------------------------------------------
Glory to the State and Tibus Heth.
|
Invelious
Amarr
Viziam
|
Posted - 2008.08.31 16:38:00 -
[53]
The Cosmopolite once told me that the The Star Fraction is opposed to all of the major governments i.e (Caldari, Gallente, Minmatar and Amarr).
With that said, you understand Cosmo that your alliance is directly assisting the Gallente and Minmatar in their operations against the Caldari State. Have you taken a side in this war and masquerading your intentions behind your anti governmental views. Or you just hitting the Caldari first then working your way to a different faction?
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The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.08.31 17:33:00 -
[54]
Invelious, you casually claim that we provide 'direct' help for the Gallente and Minmatar militias. I beg to differ. Elements of the Gallente militia have been fired on and destroyed by our fighters as opportunities have arisen. Other elements of that militia have engaged us at will. There is no state of co-operation here. As to the Minmatar militia, at present we do not operate in their main area of activity and are carefully monitoring the political situation with regard to the Republic. That said, we have the government-controlled militia set to hostile and we have been attacked by some capsuleer militias bearing the flag of the Republic. We oppose that mode of government but we maintain alliances with freedom-minded Minmatar corporations and organisations.
It is easy for people to say that the destruction of a given party's enemies is equivalent to assisting that party. In terms of outcomes it may, indeed, be so, but not through any particular desire to help that party nor by any confluence of interests except the fleeting fact that the target of the moment happens to the enemy of that party. We have to act in recognition of the fact that we are actors in a world where the consequences of our actions have to be weighed one against the other. It is no good submitting to paralysis just because an action with useful consequences also has some less desirable ones.
When all is said and done, there is no sense in refraining from exterminating one set of diseased vermin simply because they happen to be in competition with another set of pestilence-ridden beasts.
Now then, Gorion, a word to reassure you. I would not be so thoughtless as to bracket you, who have proven yourself capable of seizing your own destiny, with any passing jackanapes incapable of dropping the lead-shielding of their conditioning for fear of a dose of liberty's good radiation. Dire foes we may have once been, and in that time have exchanged harsh words, but what is all that to such as us but the heat of arguments past from which we can derive at least a little light?
The Cosmopolite
The Star Fraction Communications Portal |
Victoria Ehr
Caldari
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2008.08.31 21:13:00 -
[55]
Oh good grief.... what is worse than an anarchist? An educated anarchist who thinks he can make sense with words.
After the Gallente have surrendered.... Anarchists will feel Heth's wrath.
--------------------------------------------
Glory to the State and Tibus Heth.
|
Jonny Damordred
Stimulus
|
Posted - 2008.08.31 22:55:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Victoria Ehr
After the Gallente have surrendered.... Anarchists will feel Heth's wrath.
Ah, more "rhetoric". Rhetoric does nothing, maybe you should try a little action. You know, in space and all... Just a suggestion.
Love and Ganking,
Jonny D.
-------------------------
CEO and Professor of Gunboat Diplomacy |
Andreus Ixiris
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor
|
Posted - 2008.09.01 00:02:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Victoria Ehr
After the Gallente have surrendered.... Anarchists will feel Heth's wrath.
You truly are unsalvageable, aren't you?
What the hell makes you think we're gonna surrender when we're winning?
-----
CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Dance Commander |
Jeremy Erik
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.09.01 07:24:00 -
[58]
Has SF actually achieved anything but clogging up galnet and self-righteous wars? Have they "freed" anyone? Seems all they do is beat their chest, give long sermons on what they believe is right and wrong and condemn all others because they don't agree. Sounds less like an anarchist and more like The Church of Star Fraction. Careful, they will start passing the collection plate before too long. You say the Caldari would enslave us, felt more enslaved by the 75 days of this speech than by the State. Ah well, lesson learned: if the communication is SF, hit the off switch. |
SOFcode Z777
Caldari
Human Enhancement Tech.
|
Posted - 2008.09.01 13:35:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Jeremy Erik
Has SF actually achieved anything but clogging up galnet and self-righteous wars? Have they "freed" anyone? Seems all they do is beat their chest, give long sermons on what they believe is right and wrong and condemn all others because they don't agree. Sounds less like an anarchist and more like The Church of Star Fraction. Careful, they will start passing the collection plate before too long. You say the Caldari would enslave us, felt more enslaved by the 75 days of this speech than by the State. Ah well, lesson learned: if the communication is SF, hit the off switch.
I wouldn't go so far as to question the anarchists this way. Freedom itself, is a subjective word and perhaps we don't understand this freedom in chaos that they seek as much as they don't understand the freedom in Order that we offer.
About SF communiquTs, I would tend to agree when it's not coming from their leader. I have heard that their Leader was or Is still ( the present yet to be seen ) a very well-spoken woman, able to produce master pieces of literature.
SOFcode z777
CEO Human Enhancement Tech. H.E.T
Lieutenant Colonel Caldari State
Mordus Legion Loyalist |
Jeremy Erik
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.09.01 16:15:00 -
[60]
Masterpieces of literature? Propaganda maybe. The largest form of non-conformity is conformity. I am a new pilot and already bitter, does that seem right to you? Never met any of SF in space, and yet here I am dreading any communique that has their name on it. Seems they would drown out the opinions of others with droning speeches. Not that much of an accomplishment. Now don't get me wrong, I am not a sympathizer of the Caldari State or it's pilots. I just sympathize with any that accidentally get caught under the enormous tidal wave that is their words. I have not felt inspired to their cause by their leader's sermons. I can appreciate literature, believe me, but it's just that...she can save her breath and write books instead. Public speeches on the other hand...where is raising of spirits? the rally to their side? the "hey, they have a point there"? I've felt more pull to your cause SOFcode z777 than theirs. *chuckles and shakes his head* That is so wrong. |
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