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Why not end the pretence and make highsec a safezone?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Vikarion Caldari BLACK 0RIGIN Red Dawn Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.02 00:33:00 - [1] Edited by: Vikarion on 02/09/2008 00:33:55 Originally by: Havohej tbh, I've been wondering this last week, what if 'the other side' whined as long and as hard as the carebears do... what would happen then? CCP would tell us to go screw ourselves. They have before when we've whined. Trying to get them to address "our" concerns is like pulling rebar out of concrete with your fingernails.
Vikarion Caldari BLACK 0RIGIN Red Dawn Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.02 00:57:00 - [2] Originally by: Mika Meroko you do know that you can STILL gank people right?... it just gets more expensive... that is all.... Uh-huh. So now, instead of ratting/missioning for 1-3 days to make enough money to suicide a group of macro mackinaws, Now I get to do it for 6-14 days. This is why I stopped griefing/war-deccing/suiciding in Empire. After a certain point, it costs you so much that it's just not worth it anymore. I haven't played Eve in about a week. Just can't seem to get any motivation to log on, because everything I enjoyed keeps getting nerfed. If I DO decide to do something, I think I'm gonna start making as much money as possible, and then start going after every carebear whiner I see post on these forums. Make them bleeeeed.
Vikarion Caldari BLACK 0RIGIN Red Dawn Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.02 01:01:00 - [3] Maybe CCP could just completely separate hi-sec from low-sec/0.0. You know, once you leave hi-sec, you can never go back. I'd love that.
Vikarion Caldari BLACK 0RIGIN Red Dawn Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.02 01:10:00 - [4] Originally by: Mika Meroko as for the point.... well, I have to say, yeah, some people hate others so much that they are happy to lose something just to see the other get "it".. so I wouldnt say theres no point... just... for different reasons.. to gank... Don't worry. I'm rapidly getting to that point )in-game, of course. Everything in game.)
Vikarion Caldari BLACK 0RIGIN Red Dawn Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.02 01:21:00 - [5] Originally by: Hotice That is risk vs. reward. You want that juicy faction module or phat loot? Well, you got to take the risk to lose near same amount for nothing. Same goes for people who spent billions on their mission ships. They want to be the quickest mission runner, make the most isk? They better be ready to get suicide ganked and lose billions. The current way of suicide ganking is just too much profit with next to little risk. That is not risk vs. reward, because there is NO REWARD! No matter what, the suicide gankers will ALWAYS have lost more money than they could possibly gain, unless someone was to outfit their ship completely with Estamel's mods. (YEAH, RIGHT.)
Vikarion Caldari BLACK 0RIGIN Red Dawn Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.02 02:52:00 - [6] Originally by: Ravennaa It's completely unrealistic to label an area as "safe", and not allow targeting and/or shooting and smartbombing. Realism has nothing to do with Eve. It's a game. All the OP is asking is for CCP to stop billing Eve as a game with non-consensual PvP and start billing it as what it is. Eve was a game with non-consensual PvP. Now it's going to be a game with limited consensual PvP, and virtually no non-consensual PvP.
Vikarion Caldari BLACK 0RIGIN Red Dawn Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.02 08:31:00 - [7] Edited by: Vikarion on 02/09/2008 08:31:35 Originally by: DB Tank I really do love the newer people comming to eve trying to change it in ways like this.. Sorry but the poster is wrong.. I live in a nice area in England.. and its safe.. police "roam" it but you never know.. i could get a "thug/pirate" come up to me and punch me.. So.. i expect to see that in empire . In RP term's why would empire be 100% safe? And why would you want it to be? ewww.. I have a alt char who runs freighter's/transport ships and i beg CCP to please NOT make it easy on me.. EVE is dangerous..its a style only EVE has .. and it should stay that way.. The analogy fails because, in your example, the police do not instantly know where the offender is at, and are not able to instantly show up and pop him before exiling him from the country and fining him a huge amount of ISK. If that were the case, no one would ever commit any crime in real life, save for the insane. And that's what this patch does. Everyone who thinks that Suiganking is still possible - well, yes, it is, mechanically. Monetarily, it is ludicrous to even think about it. Popping a mission runner could well take 30+ battleships, with the new and improved Concord times. And no mission runner will ever drop 3 billion in loot. Consider also the fact that 50% of the loot is lost on average. Frieghters? You'd have to be holding a significant fraction of a trillion ISK for someone to consider going through all the work. But don't worry - no one will bother scanning you, because there will be maybe one freighter hauling such a load about every three months. Not worth the hassle. Suicide ganking for any other reason than harassment is dead. And (repeated) suicide ganking for reasons of harassment is bannable. Add to that the fact that no one is going to help someone do a major suicide gank for harassment...well, suicide ganking is not going to happen. Wardecs, already stupidly easy to avoid, are going to be removed/majorly nerfed, according to CCP. They don't want carebears getting killed by them. Hi-sec is already going to be no-PvP in fact. Why not make it so in name as well? CCP should stop lying to its subscribers. Make hi-sec no-PvP.
Vikarion Caldari BLACK 0RIGIN Red Dawn Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.02 08:39:00 - [8] Originally by: Commander Randall I'm sorry I have to say it as i've read so many threads with the opposite stated "Ahh the taste of PVP tears". On the subject I'm afraid it's a case of it's their train set and they can break it if they damn well please. If they want to keep the illusion of ALL space being dangerous they will. All the Forum threads in the world wont change a thing. If you want to do something meaningful then you have to cancel your sub and hope enough of your fellow PVP'ers do the same to make a dent. As to the OP I know this thread wasn't started as a Whine about nerfing PVP but as a request for some clarity but it seems your compatriots have hijacked it. Personally I've never been suicide ganked or even PK'ed in Empire so I wasnt aware there was a problem but obviously CCP deemed that there was I just want them to tell the truth. And no, the best way for me to hurt CCP would not be for me to quit, but for me to try to get as many others to quit as possible. I'm not doing that, I'm just saying. What I want is for CCP to be honest with its subscribers. Tell the truth: that they couldn't care less about Eve actually being cold and harsh, and are just trying to bring it mainstream.
Vikarion Caldari BLACK 0RIGIN Red Dawn Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.02 08:58:00 - [9] Oh, and note that most of the PvPers in the thread are arguing for this - not because we want hi-sec to be risk free, but because now it is. We just want CCP to stop lying to us and new suscribers about what the game is.
Vikarion Caldari BLACK 0RIGIN Red Dawn Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.02 09:06:00 - [10] I'm certainly not new to Eve. The new ones are usually carebears. And they ARE changing Eve.

Vikarion Caldari BLACK 0RIGIN Red Dawn Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.05 01:18:00 - [11] Originally by: Abrazzar Highsec is focusing on PvE mostly. The PvP in highsec is market oriented mostly. Wardecs and random ganking are rather uncommon and discouraged. Lowsec is corporation level ship PvP. There's some overlapping with PvE in lowsec mission but that's minor. Also the market usually sucks too much to allow proper market PvP. Factional warfare introduced the blob warfare and some more PvE into lowsec, but the blobs were a unintended effect and means to reduce it are worked on. (look for the devquote yourself) Nosec is the alliance size cap blob PvP. Masses of players against masses of players against the lag monster. Ideas are gathered to go against cap- and titan-blobs but it'll be at least 6-12 months away until anything in this direction will be implemented. Small scale PvP is limited to 'Random hostile is interrupting my backwater mining op'. The problem with this is that in Eve, everything you do affects someone else. When hi-sec is perfectly safe, it means that all other areas are indirectly much less profitable. Think about this: the only real things you need in Eve that cannot be gained in hi-sec (IIRC) are moon minerals and officer/deadspace items. That's it. Minerals -> Missions ISK -> Missions/Mining/Trading Research -> Hi-sec POS's Manufacturing -> Innumerable stations Faction items -> LP store -------- EVE - The only non-consensual PvP MMORPG* *Note: does not contain non-consensual PvP as of 8/3/2008
Vikarion Caldari BLACK 0RIGIN Red Dawn Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.05 01:50:00 - [12] Originally by: Etho Demerzel Wrong: 1) High end minerals are not produced in enough quantity by misisons. The current Zydrine and Megacyte explosion due the drone regions conflicts clearly shows this. There is a dire need of 0.0 high ends minerals in high sec. 2) Capital production - Carriers and Dreads can only be produced in low sec and bellow. 3) Super Cap production - It is only possible in sovereignty space. 4) Pirate Faction items - Come from Pirate stations in NPC 0.0 5) Deadspace itens - Come from 0.0 complexes mostly 6) Decryptors and exploration loot - Mostly come from 0.0 7) Boosters - 0.0 and low sec (synth) 8) Officer loot - 0.0 officer spawns You are missing the point. Hi-sec doesn't need hardly anything from 0.0, while 0.0 uses massive amounts of things from hi-sec, ruining the 0.0 economy, because the hi-sec economy is perfectly safe. It's like a first-world country wiping out the economy of a third-world country by exporting massive amounts of cheap goods. I will grant you a partial on the hi-end minerals - zyd and mega are a little hard to produce in hi-sec, though I suspect that much of the zyd/mega jump is due to speculation. And I already noted deadspace/officer/t2 gear. However, those things are relatively less necessary to hi-sec dwellers than hi-sec things are to 0.0 dwellers. Neither capitals nor supercapitals are necessary in hi-sec, or even allowed, so that point is moot. Neither are pirate faction items. Or officer loot. Or deadspace loot. Most players never even fit that stuff - faction is cheaper and performs more than adequately. In fact, the foremost use of most hi-end deadspace/officer loot is BY 0.0 dwellers, so it's economically a non-issue in this discussion. Decryptors and boosters are largely (esp. boosters) ignored by the player base, and for good reason. My point is that hi-sec needs almost nothing - maybe one or two classes of items - from 0.0, while 0.0 can use everything from hi-sec. Therefore, making hi-sec safe has a very negative effect on 0.0, because everything can be produced more cheaply there. In fact, for many people, it is more profitable to simply import something from hi-sec than to assemble and build it themselves. This is bad. -------- EVE - The only non-consensual PvP MMORPG* *Note: does not contain non-consensual PvP as of 8/3/2008
Vikarion Caldari BLACK 0RIGIN Red Dawn Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.07 03:13:00 - [13] Edited by: Vikarion on 07/09/2008 03:14:21 I think the best way to deal with it all is to simply make hi-sec resources limited. That solves a lot of problems. The real question is, HOW limited? -------- EVE - The only non-consensual PvP MMORPG* *Note: does not contain non-consensual PvP as of 9/3/2008

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