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Salpad
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.09.02 07:25:00 -
[1]
I mean, I know how they work, in general terms, but the arithmetics aren't clear to me.
I thought that if a cap booster module had a cycle time of 12 seconds, then it meant that it would burn one charge unit (e.g. of 25 or 50 energy) every 12 seconds, but a stopwatch trial didn't seem to confirm this.
Also, 25 energy units per 12 seconds amounts to only slightly more than 2 cap per second, which would be ridiculously low anyway, and I am quite sure that the actual cap regain is rather more than that.
What are the actual numbers behind cap booster modules and their charges?
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Gartel Reiman
Civis Romanus Sum
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Posted - 2008.09.02 07:28:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Salpad
I thought that if a cap booster module had a cycle time of 12 seconds, then it meant that it would burn one charge unit (e.g. of 25 or 50 energy) every 12 seconds, but a stopwatch trial didn't seem to confirm this.
That's how it works... If you were filling up the booster module completely with one charge, then you also need to add the 10 seconds reload time before it's ready to 'fire' again.
[quote[Also, 25 energy units per 12 seconds amounts to only slightly more than 2 cap per second, which would be ridiculously low anyway, and I am quite sure that the actual cap regain is rather more than that.
Not with 25 booster charges - 2 cap/s is what you get, which makes them pretty useless. However, fitting 800 charges in a heavy booster will give you around 50 cap/second, off the top of my head. 800 charges in a medium booster give about 35 cap/sec because of the reload rate. |
Salpad
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.09.02 07:36:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Salpad on 02/09/2008 07:40:44
But with a 12s cycle time small cap booster module (IIRC the tech 2 has a 12s cycle) charged with 25 unit, you confirm that I do indeed get a little over 2 cap/s.
Why then don't I fit a tech 2 cap recharger instead? One of those is likely to increase my peak cap recharge by much more than 2 cap/s.
So I guess my question is: Are cap booster modules competetive with cap recharger modules? If yes, then when are they competetive?
edit: A tech 2 cap recharger gives +20% cap reharge, so as soon as my peak recharge is 10 cap/s, a single tech 2 cap recharger module is near-competetive with a cap booster module (with 25 charge units) and I'm saving myself the great big hassle of having to carry booster charges. If my peak recharge is 11 cap/s, then the cap recharger module wins obviously.
(Also part of the reason I'm asking is that I've heard that some tech 2 frigs fit cap booster modules with 25 or 50 charge units. That puzzles me. I can't see why a tech 2 cap recharger isn't preferable.)
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Kardigan Wyrmwing
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Posted - 2008.09.02 07:51:00 -
[4]
Generally speaking:
- Avoid using anything smaller than Cap Booster 800 charges in Medium or Heavy Capacitor Booster modules.
- Don't use Capacitor Boosters in PvE, sustainability is key here always so you will always get more out of a Cap Recharger, Capacitor Power Relay, Capacitor Flux Coil or Power Diagnostics System.
Cap Boosters are a PvP tool and I don't think it makes much sense using anything but Cap Booster 800 charges. If you are flying a frigate-size ship, I would personally avoid using cap boosters at all although you can do the math and see if there's any benefit (I doubt it).
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Flair Firestar
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Posted - 2008.09.02 07:54:00 -
[5]
Because on many frigates you donŠt get 2 cap/s out of an recharger. The 50-charge already gives 4 cap/s.
Another advantage of the Booster is that it can be sort of "overcharged". If you put in larger charges you get much more cap out of them for a limited amount of time.
I believe this is more useful to pvp scenarios than fighting npc, because pvp engagements tend to be sort of short but quiet violent/capintensive. |
Salpad
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.09.02 08:06:00 -
[6]
Also, a tech 2 cap recharger costs almost 1M ISK, which is quite expensive for PVP. At least my thinking about PVP, based on limited experience, is to go for cheapskate fittings, i.e. tech 1.
So I guess that's the conclusion. A cap booster module works for PVP, but is almost always pointless for PVE.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
The first genesis
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.09.02 08:12:00 -
[7]
Use larger cap booster charges, dont use 25s but better use 200s or 150s in small ones. Then you do get alot more cap than from a cap recharger.
And with a cap recharger you just follow the normal recharge curve. So when someone neuts you and you are out of cap it very slowly increases, and is zero again when next neut cycle hits you. When you are neuted and you have a cap booster you just use it and you can always be sure you can keep your hardeners running, your reppers can make a cycle for sure, your guns can fire a few shots, etc before the next neut cycle hits. |
Sarciss
Black Legion Command
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Posted - 2008.09.02 09:54:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Salpad
Also, a tech 2 cap recharger costs almost 1M ISK, which is quite expensive for PVP. At least my thinking about PVP, based on limited experience, is to go for cheapskate fittings, i.e. tech 1.
So I guess that's the conclusion. A cap booster module works for PVP, but is almost always pointless for PVE.
Can't imagine well in pvp you do /eyeroll |
Gartel Reiman
Civis Romanus Sum
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Posted - 2008.09.02 12:05:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Salpad
Why then don't I fit a tech 2 cap recharger instead? One of those is likely to increase my peak cap recharge by much more than 2 cap/s.
Yes, why don't you?  Or better yet, fit cap booster 200 charges in that small cap booster of yours.
Quote:
So I guess my question is: Are cap booster modules competetive with cap recharger modules? If yes, then when are they competetive?
They most certainly are. The first thing to remember is that you will get the highest cap/second when you fit the largest charges that will physically fit into the booster - so 200s for small, and 800s for medium and large boosters. Secondly, cap boosters give a certain amount of cap recharge, which is usually a lot more than you would get from a 20% increase to your ship's base recharge time, thus on a slot-for-slot basis they are by far the best way to increase the amount of cap use you can sustain if you want to use very few (i.e. 1) slot for cap maintenance. Often a single e.g. medium booster with 800s will give you equivalent cap to about 4 or 5 cap rechargers, and the slots it saves you are incredibly valuable for PvP.
On the other hand, because car rechargers and CPRs and CCCs are not stacking nerfed and work on percentages, each one you add adds expontentially more cap, to the point where with enough cap mods fitted each one is giving you more than a booster itself, so if you're planning on using multiple slots for cap maintenance, then these are generally the way to go. They also have the advantage of taking essentially no powergrid unlike the cap boosters, and thus often let you fit more guns/tank. Finally they will not run out of charges, which can be an advantage if you expect to be fighting for a long time at once (most ships can cap boost constantly for about 5 minutes - a medium booster goes through roughly 100m^3 of cargo per minute in charges, for example), or if you're going to be engaging in an area where you can't easily stop off and pick up more charges.
Quote:
(Also part of the reason I'm asking is that I've heard that some tech 2 frigs fit cap booster modules with 25 or 50 charge units. That puzzles me. I can't see why a tech 2 cap recharger isn't preferable.)
Chances are this was a setup copy-and-pasted from EFT - when you add a cap booster it always defaults to cap booster 25 charges if you don't remember to change it, and I've seen a few people post screenshots like this by mistake. The only reason to ever use booster charges smaller than the maximum is if you can still comfortably run things with the smaller size - and then all it really gets you is longevity (as your cargohold now carries twice as many boosters), so if you're able to dock up after a fight and refill you may as well go for the biggest you can get. Cap boosters charges are practically free in PvP terms so cost doesn't really come into it (filling a battleship with 800s costs about 80k ISK). |
Derek Sigres
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Posted - 2008.09.02 13:12:00 -
[10]
Cap boosters, as several have pointed out already are primarily PVP modules. In PVE, the most important aspect of a ship is it's sustained performance level. It makes little sense to build a glass cannon ship that burns through it's cap supply in a minute or two, because no matter how well you do in that minute it won't be good enough to get the job done.
Cap boosters exlimplify the PVP theory of operation. Sustained performance means little if your ship won't last long enough for your degraded short term capibilities to become long term advantages. Boosters maximize the time you can utalize any ship to it's utmost potential, and it's a rare fight that will cause any ship relying on boosters to actually burn through their store. |
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BiggestT
Caldari
Space Oddysey
Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.09.02 13:26:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Kardigan Wyrmwing
Generally speaking:
- Avoid using anything smaller than Cap Booster 800 charges in Medium or Heavy Capacitor Booster modules.
- Don't use Capacitor Boosters in PvE, sustainability is key here always so you will always get more out of a Cap Recharger, Capacitor Power Relay, Capacitor Flux Coil or Power Diagnostics System.
Cap Boosters are a PvP tool and I don't think it makes much sense using anything but Cap Booster 800 charges. If you are flying a frigate-size ship, I would personally avoid using cap boosters at all although you can do the math and see if there's any benefit (I doubt it).
Cap boosters are only ok in pve for ratting when u want a quick boost everynow n then if u get jumped (saved me once agaisnt two vags :D) or if your alomst, but not quite, perma-tanking (often the case for younger players)..
Mind you i wldnt do this anywhere were u wont find cap boosters in wrecks..
Proudly annoying FC's since 2007
Originally by: Sherrif Jones
*ding ding!*
Wrangler: Hello and w-
*ding ding!*
Wrangler: Damn nanowhiners...*goes back to reading*
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BiggestT
Caldari
Space Oddysey
Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.09.02 13:28:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Derek Sigres
Cap boosters, as several have pointed out already are primarily PVP modules. In PVE, the most important aspect of a ship is it's sustained performance level. It makes little sense to build a glass cannon ship that burns through it's cap supply in a minute or two, because no matter how well you do in that minute it won't be good enough to get the job done.
Cap boosters exlimplify the PVP theory of operation. Sustained performance means little if your ship won't last long enough for your degraded short term capibilities to become long term advantages. Boosters maximize the time you can utalize any ship to it's utmost potential, and it's a rare fight that will cause any ship relying on boosters to actually burn through their store.
damn it derek do you have like a phD in EVE-theory or something? LOL
Proudly annoying FC's since 2007
Originally by: Sherrif Jones
*ding ding!*
Wrangler: Hello and w-
*ding ding!*
Wrangler: Damn nanowhiners...*goes back to reading*
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