Originally by: Disteeler

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Can you suicide gank a freighter in high sec, regardless insurance and other "nerf" policies? YES

Only gankers with more than a pair of neurons will survive this, others will miserabily fail.

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Originally by: Disteeler

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Edited by: Disteeler on 02/09/2008 18:44:38
You could elaborate, for me you seem only to be a crying kid without valid reasons, the kind of player that it's better out of EvE.

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Originally by: Ki An

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Originally by: Disteeler

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Edited by: Disteeler on 02/09/2008 18:44:38
You could elaborate, for me you seem only to be a crying kid without valid reasons, the kind of player that it's better out of EvE.

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Well, I have already elaborated in this thread. Just for you and your limited ability to read threads you post in, I will do so again.

- Yes, it is still technically possible to gank a freighter.
- The currently implemented changes coupled with the coming changes in insurance payout will make it economically impossible to gank a freighter UNLESS you are part of a wealthy alliance AND the target is part of an enemy logistics change.
- All other freighter pilots (except those who carry 10 billion +) are now 100% safe to accumulate isk.

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Originally by: Disteeler

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So, what I said it's technically correct and you're stating it in fact. Are you a comedian or what?

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Originally by: Ki An

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Originally by: Venkul Mul

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Ki, as usual you are a hypocrite. You lose the ship but get full insurance refund. That mean that at most you spend 4-8 millions to gank a ship. If you are so stupid that you chose a target that will no give that back is your problem.

Gankin in high sec, as long a insurance is paid, is risk free as you don't risk any isk loss even if you do that half asleep.

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Hypocrite you say, eh?

How about the fact that risk vs reward was wrong, according to you, until insurance is removed, but now that it will be, risk for a freighter is 0?

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Originally by: Venkul Mul

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You never change, Ki. Usual untruths. It is fully possible to gank a freighter even after today patch and it will be possible even after the removal of insurance.

The only difference it that killing a empty freighter or a freighter with unknown content for LOL will be done at a loss (unless you are lucky and you hit a random jackpot).

If you do your homework and search for a freighter with a good cargo value you will profit.

So freighter will not have 0 risk at all, it will be simply safer to travel with a low value load on board.

Personally the increased Concord reaction time increase is of no interest, while I would have liked much more the immediate removal of insurance in Concord kills.

I have no trouble with well planned freighter/industrial/whatever ganks in high sec, I have problems with subsidized ganks in high sec.

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Originally by: Ki An

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- The currently implemented changes coupled with the coming changes in insurance payout will make it economically impossible to gank a freighter UNLESS you are part of a wealthy alliance AND the target is part of an enemy logistics change.

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Originally by: Clair Bear

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Originally by: Ki An

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- The currently implemented changes coupled with the coming changes in insurance payout will make it economically impossible to gank a freighter UNLESS you are part of a wealthy alliance AND the target is part of an enemy logistics change.

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Technically a very blobby aliance should still be able to do this on the cheap. A full on t1 (some items meta1 and 2) fitted gank thorax can pump out north of 400 dps in my shaky, DPS implantless, module overheat forgetting hands. Call it 6.5 million per, * 60 = less than half a bil, with much of the cost recouped in loot scooping and salvage after the gank. Costs can be reduced significantly using Vexors and setting multi-region buy orders for meta1&2 neutron blasters and heatsinks. You would need 2 well trained manu-alts to produce enough for one attempt per day.

The hard part is getting so many willing suicide monkeys in the first place and having them hang around long enough to locate a target. Do-able as an alliance op, absolutely prohibitive as a hobby.

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Originally by: Clair Bear

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Originally by: Ki An

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- The currently implemented changes coupled with the coming changes in insurance payout will make it economically impossible to gank a freighter UNLESS you are part of a wealthy alliance AND the target is part of an enemy logistics change.

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Technically a very blobby aliance should still be able to do this on the cheap. A full on t1 (some items meta1 and 2) fitted gank thorax can pump out north of 400 dps in my shaky, DPS implantless, module overheat forgetting hands. Call it 6.5 million per, * 60 = less than half a bil, with much of the cost recouped in loot scooping and salvage after the gank. Costs can be reduced significantly using Vexors and setting multi-region buy orders for meta1&2 neutron blasters and heatsinks. You would need 2 well trained manu-alts to produce enough for one attempt per day.

The hard part is getting so many willing suicide monkeys in the first place and having them hang around long enough to locate a target. Do-able as an alliance op, absolutely prohibitive as a hobby.

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Originally by: Ki An

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We're now talking about 60*30 hours or so, or 1800 hours of ratting to make up for one kill.

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Quote:

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Not to mention that this sort of kill is practically impossible due to server limitations.

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Originally by: Clair Bear

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Quote:

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Not to mention that this sort of kill is practically impossible due to server limitations.

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I'm not as convinced. The drone lag may work somewhat in the ganker's favor.

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Originally by: Ki An

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If you have ever been in a fleet battle in 0.0 you will know what I am talking about. Nothing could move in such a system for half an hour. The servers can't handle it.

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Originally by: Clair Bear

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If everyone pre-activates their modules, orbits and locks on word "GO" the commands will get through. 60 ships locking won't trash the server, and modules WILL activate server side even if the combatant clients don't see the results for a few minutes.

60 on 1 is still a very possible engagement, even in a system with 100 in local. Everyone in your gang should be able to engage and start doing damage before the freighter aligns and warps. Especially if you bump it.

Less than a minute later it'll all be over and your off grid loot scoopers can get to work.

Sheesh, if I wasn't in FTZ I'd even volunteer to get a gang together to do try this.

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Originally by: Clair Bear

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edit: trust me, 300 drones orbiting and firing is far worse lag factor wise than 300 guns. I've been in fights with far bigger numbers than 61 where lag was fine until the drone cloud spewed forth.

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Originally by: Ki An

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Originally by: Clair Bear

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If everyone pre-activates their modules, orbits and locks on word "GO" the commands will get through. 60 ships locking won't trash the server, and modules WILL activate server side even if the combatant clients don't see the results for a few minutes.

60 on 1 is still a very possible engagement, even in a system with 100 in local. Everyone in your gang should be able to engage and start doing damage before the freighter aligns and warps. Especially if you bump it.

Less than a minute later it'll all be over and your off grid loot scoopers can get to work.

Sheesh, if I wasn't in FTZ I'd even volunteer to get a gang together to do try this.

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How are you planning on bumping anything if you can't move?

Originally by: Clair Bear

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edit: trust me, 300 drones orbiting and firing is far worse lag factor wise than 300 guns. I've been in fights with far bigger numbers than 61 where lag was fine until the drone cloud spewed forth.

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Trust me, you are wrong. Ask TWD of BoB.

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Originally by: Clair Bear

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Edited by: Clair Bear on 02/09/2008 19:59:02

Originally by: Ki An

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If you have ever been in a fleet battle in 0.0 you will know what I am talking about. Nothing could move in such a system for half an hour. The servers can't handle it.

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If everyone pre-activates their modules, orbits and locks on word "GO" the commands will get through.

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Originally by: VeroneaTT

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Name dropper,

Just quit...obviously this game makes you too upset to carry on anymore. You griefers act as if CCP owes you something. You deserve and should get -0- consideration. When people like you mention "tears", your whines are what comes to mind. Take yourself and your eleventybeeellion accounts and gtfo.

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Originally by: Jonna Andromedae

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20 Battleships is worth around 2B ISK. Let's say that fittings is 40 M ISK per ship. That's 2.8 B ISK.

Freighter with 6 B ISK worth of goods gets ganked. That's 300 M ISK per pilot. After the stuff is being collected (vulchers), stuff have to be hauled, it also must be sold before you can get that 300 M ISK from it.

That 300 M can be done by missioning or ratting so much easier without waiting for the perfect target and following the perfect target and assembling the gank.

So even now it's safe 99.9% of systems in high sec. After changes it will be even more safer.

Sure there will be some groups who will gank freighter to show off.

I have done lot's of trading and hauling between all empires and I have quite clear picture of the most likely gank systems. I use warp 0 at those systems for just in case (if I remember) and otherwise run AFK.

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Originally by: Jonna Andromedae

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20 Battleships is worth around 2B ISK. Let's say that fittings is 40 M ISK per ship. That's 2.8 B ISK.

Freighter with 6 B ISK worth of goods gets ganked. That's 300 M ISK per pilot. After the stuff is being collected (vulchers), stuff have to be hauled, it also must be sold before you can get that 300 M ISK from it.

That 300 M can be done by missioning or ratting so much easier without waiting for the perfect target and following the perfect target and assembling the gank.

So even now it's safe 99.9% of systems in high sec. After changes it will be even more safer.

Sure there will be some groups who will gank freighter to show off.

I have done lot's of trading and hauling between all empires and I have quite clear picture of the most likely gank systems. I use warp 0 at those systems for just in case (if I remember) and otherwise run AFK.

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You forgot the 50% drop rate.

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Originally by: Mankirks Wife

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Personally I think CCP is fixing the wrong problem.

The problem isn't suicide gankers - if it was you'd see lots of "WAAAAAAH" on the forums about things other than freighters getting suicided. But other ships can and do take precautions to defend themselves. The problem is freighters.

Every freighter is exactly the same - with no slots you know in advance what it's EHP is (assuming max skills, of course), align times, how much it can carry, etc. So a gang of pirates knows that they need X ships and Y decently-skilled pilots, a cargo scanner, and they can go collect loot provided they know where to camp.

Now, I think removing insurance is a good idea (if only because it makes sense from an RP perspective and would stop lolThorax noob ganks), but to fix freighters I would have reduced their cargo capacity and made them even slower, given them some low and mid slots (enough so you could fit the up to their previous capacity/speed), and given people the choice of sacrificing cargo capacity for tank and/or agility.

And the whole problem would go away and everyone would be happy.

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Originally by: Ki An

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After the security changes? Risk to a freighter = 0.

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Originally by: Le Skunk

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Freighter ganking will continue on a smaller scale untill insurnace is removed.

CCP HAS stated insurance will be removed for concorded ships at a later date

The problem is of course,

1) some hand wringing over protecting the odd noob who accidentally gets concorded
2) CCP schizophrenia (some vestige of old guard ideals muddying the water)

After this point, The tradition of highway robbery will be finished.

The irony is of course, the only people who WILL be popping freighters in high sec, are the seriously rich who just want to pop shit for lulz. Not those doing it as a profession.

SKUNK

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Originally by: Ting Mei

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I'm let say, a rookie player.

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