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Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.09.08 17:54:00 - [151] Edited by: Micheal Dietrich on 08/09/2008 17:56:13 Originally by: Death4free good for you..... however the fact that anyone with half a brain can get their hands on a gun in america is stupidly scary oh and the girl in question cant drive legaly till shes 21 or w/e age over there so Drivers permit can be attained at 15. Your sidestepping the point which a ton of people have been doing in this thread. They say she doesn't acknowledge the responsibility of a firearm which is not true. I would trust her with that assault rifle a whole lot more than some street thug who got his hands on a pistol. All of my friends have had training and our stats to date are: Me - vehicle accidents 5 firearm accidents 0 My father (AF MP and police officer)- Vehicle accidents 3 firearm accidents 0 My friend Nate - Has been through 8 cars, Gun accidents - 0 His brother Jay - Marine for 8 years, car accidents - 3 firearm accidents - 0 My friend Mike - Car accidents 1 where he lost his father, his mother was severly crippled, him and his sister had to be removed via jaws of life, firearm accidents - 0 See a trend forming? We've all had gun safety training. We know how to use a firearm. The little girl has had gun safety training. She knows how to use a firearm. As for the cars you have to take in other peoples ability to drive. Your sure as hell not gonna end up at a firing range and worry about somebody popping a cap in your ass. I know that the media likes to impose scare tactics. I know you read about school shootings and what not. Seriously, reading about average Joe who went out and shot a few guns at a range and nothing happening is rather dull news dontcha think? But it happens every day. You call it bad, but I call it excellent parenting skills. She knows gun safety, and chances are her gun incidents will most lkely remain at 0
Death4free Caldari Ninjas N Pirates	Posted - 2008.09.08 18:01:00 - [152] Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Edited by: Micheal Dietrich on 08/09/2008 17:56:13 Originally by: Death4free good for you..... however the fact that anyone with half a brain can get their hands on a gun in america is stupidly scary oh and the girl in question cant drive legaly till shes 21 or w/e age over there so Drivers permit can be attained at 15. Your sidestepping the point which a ton of people have been doing in this thread. They say she doesn't acknowledge the responsibility of a firearm which is not true. I would trust her with that assault rifle a whole lot more than some street thug who got his hands on a pistol. All of my friends have had training and our stats to date are: Me - vehicle accidents 5 firearm accidents 0 My father (AF MP and police officer)- Vehicle accidents 3 firearm accidents 0 My friend Nate - Has been through 8 cars, Gun accidents - 0 His brother Jay - Marine for 8 years, car accidents - 3 firearm accidents - 0 My friend Mike - Car accidents 1 where he lost his father, his mother was severly crippled, him and his sister had to be removed via jaws of life, firearm accidents - 0 See a trend forming? We've all had gun safety training. We know how to use a firearm. The little girl has had gun safety training. She knows how to use a firearm. As for the cars you have to take in other peoples ability to drive. Your sure as hell not gonna end up at a firing range and worry about somebody popping a cap in your ass. I know that the media likes to impose scare tactics. I know you read about school shootings and what not. Seriously, reading about average Joe who went out and shot a few guns at a range and nothing happening is rather dull news dontcha think? But it happens every day. You call it bad, but I call it excellent parenting skills. She knows gun safety, and chances are her gun incidents will most lkely remain at 0 your side stepping the point by trying 2 make it look like cars are alot more dangerous people (most of the time) dont step into cars with the aim of training up for damging other ppl in the future) people go down to the firing range to practise their gun skills so they can kill people easier now alls it needs is for some idiot to get hold of a gun and bam..... dead person fair enough cars can be used as weapons but its alot easier to get out the way of a car compared to say avoiding being shot in the face.... the fact that an 11 year old knows how to use a gun is just stupid since a) she could get bullied by someone nasty at school and solve the problem with.....a gun b) she could get into an emotional situation where she gets so depressed she goes on a rampage (see every school shooting ever) Eve information kiosk
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.09.08 18:19:00 - [153] Edited by: Micheal Dietrich on 08/09/2008 18:20:00 Originally by: Death4free your side stepping the point by trying 2 make it look like cars are alot more dangerous I'm pointing out that a vehicle can be just as dangerous, not more dangerous. Originally by: Death4free people (most of the time) dont step into cars with the aim of training up for damging other ppl in the future) people go down to the firing range to practise their gun skills so they can kill people easier So what your saying is that I'm a killer. Damnit, what the hell am I doing wrong here, I shoulda wiped out a town by now. Originally by: Death4free now alls it needs is for some idiot to get hold of a gun and bam..... dead person Correct. An idiot, not some one with gun safety training. Originally by: Death4free fair enough cars can be used as weapons but its alot easier to get out the way of a car compared to say avoiding being shot in the face.... Ever try to hit a moving target? Oh wait, guns are bad so you've never tried. Theres also a neat little catch phrase known as Duck and Cover. Originally by: Death4free the fact that an 11 year old knows how to use a gun is just stupid since a) she could get bullied by someone nasty at school and solve the problem with.....a gun b) she could get into an emotional situation where she gets so depressed she goes on a rampage (see every school shooting ever) Again, according to you I should posting this from prison while I'm serving my life service. I've been bullied, hell I've been to a mental institution a few times. Not once had I ever thought about picking up a gun. According to your logic, we should be reading about several thousand school shootings and not 1 or 2 a year. Millions of people own guns, quite frankly I'm surprised we even have buildings standing still since according to you we're all working on our ability to be killers.
Death4free Caldari Ninjas N Pirates	Posted - 2008.09.08 18:30:00 - [154] Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Edited by: Micheal Dietrich on 08/09/2008 18:20:00 I'm pointing out that a vehicle can be just as dangerous, not more dangerous. people go down to the firing range to practise their gun skills so they can kill people easier So what your saying is that I'm a killer. Damnit, what the hell am I doing wrong here, I shoulda wiped out a town by now. Originally by: Death4free fair enough cars can be used as weapons but its alot easier to get out the way of a car compared to say avoiding being shot in the face.... Ever try to hit a moving target? Oh wait, guns are bad so you've never tried. Theres also a neat little catch phrase known as Duck and Cover. Originally by: Death4free the fact that an 11 year old knows how to use a gun is just stupid since a) she could get bullied by someone nasty at school and solve the problem with.....a gun b) she could get into an emotional situation where she gets so depressed she goes on a rampage (see every school shooting ever) Again, according to you I should posting this from prison while I'm serving my life service. I've been bullied, hell I've been to a mental institution a few times. Not once had I ever thought about picking up a gun. According to your logic, we should be reading about several thousand school shootings and not 1 or 2 a year. Millions of people own guns, quite frankly I'm surprised we even have buildings standing still since according to you we're all working on our ability to be killers. i lolled so hard at this how many ppl do u think could duck and cover in the time it takes someone to walk up behind you in sayin a shopping mall whip out a pistol and blow their brains out. ok and your just 1 person btw theres x hundred million americans dont try and pass yourself off as the majority. The fact is once again that anyone can get access to a gun in america and that just leads to people dying. It may be theres only afew school shooting for now but what about the future. What about the huge number of deatsh you get from gun voilence all over america..... Eve information kiosk
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2008.09.08 18:31:00 - [155] Originally by: Death4free Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Edited by: Micheal Dietrich on 08/09/2008 15:31:43 Originally by: Kaeten Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Originally by: Kaeten Comeone man chaning a tire and taking apart an assault rifle, two diffrent things lol. In what aspect? Mechanical Aptitude? Safety? Training? Please, explain. transportation vehicle vs. a machine designed to kill ppl Oh I forgot, cars are compeltely safe...... silly americans if you want to take it like that then im removing all the glass in your house all the wood all the cutelry all electronics and such cars arent specifically designed to cause harm and its just idiot drivers that are responsible for accidents however guns are designed in mind to hurt humans or animals and teaching a kid at that age to field strip a rifle which is almost certainly not goin to be useful for the next 10 years minimum is just plain wierd yea this. tbh if the rest of yous are so stupid to think that i actully thought "cars are safe and cannot run over and kill ppl" wtf man, lol. yea BAN everything.. as this guy said its DESIGNED TO KILL, the car ain't DESIGNED TO KILL.. Also about your eailer posts, I think it's a good idea to teach younger ppl about weapons but I said nowhere about field stripping them, I don't give a shit if you said "whats the point of learning about the weapon if you can't keep it clean", they SHOULDN'T have one in the FIRST PLACE. man... ________________________ I'M POOR
Death4free Caldari Ninjas N Pirates	Posted - 2008.09.08 18:38:00 - [156] Originally by: Kaeten Originally by: Death4free Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Edited by: Micheal Dietrich on 08/09/2008 15:31:43 Originally by: Kaeten Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Originally by: Kaeten Comeone man chaning a tire and taking apart an assault rifle, two diffrent things lol. In what aspect? Mechanical Aptitude? Safety? Training? Please, explain. transportation vehicle vs. a machine designed to kill ppl Oh I forgot, cars are compeltely safe...... silly americans if you want to take it like that then im removing all the glass in your house all the wood all the cutelry all electronics and such cars arent specifically designed to cause harm and its just idiot drivers that are responsible for accidents however guns are designed in mind to hurt humans or animals and teaching a kid at that age to field strip a rifle which is almost certainly not goin to be useful for the next 10 years minimum is just plain wierd yea this. tbh if the rest of yous are so stupid to think that i actully thought "cars are safe and cannot run over and kill ppl" wtf man, lol. yea BAN everything.. as this guy said its DESIGNED TO KILL, the car ain't DESIGNED TO KILL.. Also about your eailer posts, I think it's a good idea to teach younger ppl about weapons but I said nowhere about field stripping them, I don't give a shit if you said "whats the point of learning about the weapon if you can't keep it clean", they SHOULDN'T have one in the FIRST PLACE. man... indeed theres absoloutely no need for a 11 year old to know how to field strip or use a rifle.....or maybe there is bell rings ok everyone into class its time for lessons ok quick pop quiz who knows how to field strip and use a rifle......if u dont get this right youl fail your life and follow a downspiral of drug abuse and eventual suicide..... wait wha... Eve information kiosk
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.09.08 18:43:00 - [157] Originally by: Death4free i lolled so hard at this how many ppl do u think could duck and cover in the time it takes someone to walk up behind you in sayin a shopping mall whip out a pistol and blow their brains out. ok and your just 1 person btw theres x hundred million americans dont try and pass yourself off as the majority. The fact is once again that anyone can get access to a gun in america and that just leads to people dying. It may be theres only afew school shooting for now but what about the future. What about the huge number of deatsh you get from gun voilence all over america..... Recent shooting in a mall in Utah. Maybe a couple of hundred people in the mall. Shooter got 13 including himself. So that's a couple hundred minus 13 who ducked and covered. Now how many people react when they see that car at the last second? See, I can do it too. Current population of the US - 301,139,947 (2007 statistic). Quite a few million people who have guns is quite a modest reply. I'd hate to tell you but anyone, anywhere can get their hands on a gun of you look hard enough. YOU may be restricted from getting one because your a law abiding citizen, but I can assure you a trip to the docks with some shady characters and a few hundred in your pocket will score you a .45. Your fooling yourself if you think otherwise. And again, according to your logic I should be in prison atm. Guns do not equal people dieing. Post more ignorance please.
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2008.09.08 18:44:00 - [158] Originally by: Death4free Originally by: Kaeten Originally by: Death4free Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Edited by: Micheal Dietrich on 08/09/2008 15:31:43 Originally by: Kaeten Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Originally by: Kaeten Comeone man chaning a tire and taking apart an assault rifle, two diffrent things lol. In what aspect? Mechanical Aptitude? Safety? Training? Please, explain. transportation vehicle vs. a machine designed to kill ppl Oh I forgot, cars are compeltely safe...... silly americans if you want to take it like that then im removing all the glass in your house all the wood all the cutelry all electronics and such cars arent specifically designed to cause harm and its just idiot drivers that are responsible for accidents however guns are designed in mind to hurt humans or animals and teaching a kid at that age to field strip a rifle which is almost certainly not goin to be useful for the next 10 years minimum is just plain wierd yea this. tbh if the rest of yous are so stupid to think that i actully thought "cars are safe and cannot run over and kill ppl" wtf man, lol. yea BAN everything.. as this guy said its DESIGNED TO KILL, the car ain't DESIGNED TO KILL.. Also about your eailer posts, I think it's a good idea to teach younger ppl about weapons but I said nowhere about field stripping them, I don't give a shit if you said "whats the point of learning about the weapon if you can't keep it clean", they SHOULDN'T have one in the FIRST PLACE. man... indeed theres absoloutely no need for a 11 year old to know how to field strip or use a rifle.....or maybe there is bell rings ok everyone into class its time for lessons ok quick pop quiz who knows how to field strip and use a rifle......if u dont get this right youl fail your life and follow a downspiral of drug abuse and eventual suicide..... wait wha... lol ________________________ I'M POOR
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2008.09.08 18:45:00 - [159] Originally by: Micheal Dietrich And again, according to your logic I should be in prison atm. Guns do not equal people dieing. Well i drive cars, Should i be in prison? As you said.. driving a car is also dangerous... ________________________ I'M POOR
Death4free Caldari Ninjas N Pirates	Posted - 2008.09.08 18:56:00 - [160] Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Originally by: Death4free i lolled so hard at this how many ppl do u think could duck and cover in the time it takes someone to walk up behind you in sayin a shopping mall whip out a pistol and blow their brains out. ok and your just 1 person btw theres x hundred million americans dont try and pass yourself off as the majority. The fact is once again that anyone can get access to a gun in america and that just leads to people dying. It may be theres only afew school shooting for now but what about the future. What about the huge number of deatsh you get from gun voilence all over america..... Recent shooting in a mall in Utah. Maybe a couple of hundred people in the mall. Shooter got 13 including himself. So that's a couple hundred minus 13 who ducked and covered. Now how many people react when they see that car at the last second? See, I can do it too. Current population of the US - 301,139,947 (2007 statistic). Quite a few million people who have guns is quite a modest reply. I'd hate to tell you but anyone, anywhere can get their hands on a gun of you look hard enough. YOU may be restricted from getting one because your a law abiding citizen, but I can assure you a trip to the docks with some shady characters and a few hundred in your pocket will score you a .45. Your fooling yourself if you think otherwise. And again, according to your logic I should be in prison atm. Guns do not equal people dieing. Post more ignorance please. yes but id have to go out of my way to get a gun and atleast i could be arrested for owning a gun (even though our police are shite) whereas u can decide on a whim to pop down to a shop and buy a gun which is just ....confoundly stupid oh and for the record i said theres a capiacty for voilence not that everyone who owns a gun is a killer......i still support police owning guns and would rather have police in my country having guns but making them nationaly accesible just means that its easier for someone with a grudge/mental disability/hatred of human life as we know it to kill anyone. And the 13 killed in that shopping mall were prolly only 13 cause the guy ran outa ammo or just killed himself b4 emptying his clip if hed just walked in with several guns i cant imagine the death toll woulda been so low....oh and for the most important bit you seem to be forgetting WHAT KIND OF A COUNTRY ARE YOU LIVING IN WHERE PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW HOW TO DUCK AND COVER AND HAVE TO DO SO? srsly thats just messed up. The whole idea of owning a weapon capable of killing other people cause some idiots 200 years ago said so despite the conditions being much different then (occupying armies guns being teh suck etc etc) just shows how stubborn you are to change (neesecary change) and how frail your idea of need is. You wouldnt need a gun to defend yourself against other people with guns if you didnt all have access to guns in the first place. Admittedly gangsters still have guns but then if the police had guns atleast theyd b less of a problem. Also this has gone way of track and md seems to just be overlooking the original backplot to this which was why the hell is a 11 year old being taught how to fire a gun when she should be enjoying life and not being taught how to kill communists Eve information kiosk
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.09.08 19:06:00 - [161] Originally by: Kaeten Originally by: Micheal Dietrich And again, according to your logic I should be in prison atm. Guns do not equal people dieing. Well i drive cars, Should i be in prison? As you said.. driving a car is also dangerous... That's the point I've been trying to get across for several pages now. Not everyone in a vehicle is dangerous, and not everyone with a gun is dangerous. Poor Death though seems to think otherwise because of controlled media and guns r bad brainwashing.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.09.08 19:18:00 - [162] Originally by: Death4free yes but id have to go out of my way to get a gun and atleast i could be arrested for owning a gun (even though our police are shite) whereas u can decide on a whim to pop down to a shop and buy a gun which is just ....confoundly stupid Read up on the requirements for gun ownership before you post crap like this again. Originally by: Death4free And the 13 killed in that shopping mall were prolly only 13 cause the guy ran outa ammo or just killed himself b4 emptying his clip if hed just walked in with several guns i cant imagine the death toll woulda been so low He had several hundred rounds of ammunition and 2 guns. He had intent to cause more damage. Also I was way off, he killed 5 and wounded 4 and was shot by an off duty officer. Article here. Originally by: Death4free srsly thats just messed up. The whole idea of owning a weapon capable of killing other people cause some idiots 200 years ago said so despite the conditions being much different then (occupying armies guns being teh suck etc etc) just shows how stubborn you are to change (neesecary change) and how frail your idea of need is. You wouldnt need a gun to defend yourself against other people with guns if you didnt all have access to guns in the first place. Admittedly gangsters still have guns but then if the police had guns atleast theyd b less of a problem. I own knives too. In fact some knives aren't exactly used to cut my steak. Oh wait, I heard they're trying to ban those too in England. you guys are gonna have to resort to rocks at some point while the criminals still have the good stuff. Originally by: Death4free Also this has gone way of track and md seems to just be overlooking the original backplot to this which was why the hell is a 11 year old being taught how to fire a gun when she should be enjoying life and not being taught how to kill communists This isn't off track. She looked happy to me. Please point out in the video where communists are mentioned.
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2008.09.08 19:24:00 - [163] Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Originally by: Kaeten Originally by: Micheal Dietrich And again, according to your logic I should be in prison atm. Guns do not equal people dieing. Well i drive cars, Should i be in prison? As you said.. driving a car is also dangerous... That's the point I've been trying to get across for several pages now. Not everyone in a vehicle is dangerous, and not everyone with a gun is dangerous. Poor Death though seems to think otherwise because of controlled media and guns r bad brainwashing. this kinda takes it away from guns in general and kinda points it more to how the population acts. ________________________ I'M POOR
Death4free Caldari Ninjas N Pirates	Posted - 2008.09.08 19:27:00 - [164] stuffs by md first im guna address one point in this (the guy in the minimall) it wouldnt have happend if he didnt have access to guns anyways. It doesnt happen in england (or atleast very occasionally) Yes we do have knife crime but then we need knifes for cutting food 0_O and all sortsa other crap. You dont need guns but you have them anyway because of some idiotic belief that if evereyone has guns then no ones guna shoot anyone else Eve information kiosk
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.09.08 19:33:00 - [165] Originally by: Death4free You dont need guns but you have them anyway because of some idiotic belief that if evereyone has guns then no ones guna shoot anyone else Say that to the swiss.
Death4free Caldari Ninjas N Pirates	Posted - 2008.09.08 19:39:00 - [166] Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Originally by: Death4free You dont need guns but you have them anyway because of some idiotic belief that if evereyone has guns then no ones guna shoot anyone else Say that to the swiss. yes but then thats the swiss not americans i think that there are a few countires where this would work examples being germany....possibly france.....and switzerland obv countries where it wouldnt work russia...uk......usa obviousely.... Eve information kiosk
Kephael Caldari LEAP Corp Ursa Stellar Initiative	Posted - 2008.09.08 19:39:00 - [167] Edited by: Kephael on 08/09/2008 19:43:21 Hilarious replies in this thread, considering the homicide rate has increased by about 15% in Great Britain since the banning of most firearms and the crime rate is still roughly double that of the US I'm fairly certain it negates the "guns cause crime argument". 55% of gun related deaths are suicides in the US, 45% are shootings, the vast majority of shootings are felon on felon crimes (related to the drug trade). In the end, only 11,000 deaths are the results of shootings, justified or not are included in these statistics. Considering how many people tobacco kills or alcohol it's merely a drop in the bucket. All empires/countries are marked by a rise and fall, hopefully the UK won't fall any time soon but you never know, radical religious extremists are out there, hopefully they don't decide they want to move in next door to your flat and kick off a revolution.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.09.08 19:45:00 - [168] Originally by: Death4free yes but then thats the swiss not americans i think that there are a few countires where this would work examples being germany....possibly france.....and switzerland obv countries where it wouldnt work russia...uk......usa obviousely.... So now we're picking and choosing which countries it will work in? /sigh. You get this impession that we're a nation under seige and we have massive block wars and you couldn't be further from the truth. I've been to LA, SF, Pheonix, Tuscon, Vegas, Chicago, And everything in between and yet here I stand, not riddled with holes and never once felt like I was in danger. Your views are grossly misinterpreted. A thief once said in a documentary that if he knew that a house had a gun in it, he wouldn't even bother.
Death4free Caldari Ninjas N Pirates	Posted - 2008.09.08 20:00:00 - [169] Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Originally by: Death4free yes but then thats the swiss not americans i think that there are a few countires where this would work examples being germany....possibly france.....and switzerland obv countries where it wouldnt work russia...uk......usa obviousely.... So now we're picking and choosing which countries it will work in? /sigh. You get this impession that we're a nation under seige and we have massive block wars and you couldn't be further from the truth. I've been to LA, SF, Pheonix, Tuscon, Vegas, Chicago, And everything in between and yet here I stand, not riddled with holes and never once felt like I was in danger. Your views are grossly misinterpreted. A thief once said in a documentary that if he knew that a house had a gun in it, he wouldn't even bother. well if you didnt feel like you were in any danger why do you feel the need to carry a gun around for protection? Eve information kiosk
Ademaro Imre Caldari Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.09.08 20:04:00 - [170] Originally by: Death4free Yes we do have knife crime but then we need knifes for cutting food 0_O and all sortsa other crap. You dont need guns but you have them anyway because of some idiotic belief that if evereyone has guns then no ones guna shoot anyone else That's right, Switzerland is maelstrom of ammunition. And so is Kennesaw, Georgia, population of 26,000, that has not seen a murder by guns since it passed a law requiring its citizens to own a firearm. Right now, Washington D.C., and Chicago, IL which have outlawed handguns are more dangerous than Baghdad. There is no instance in the US, where relaxing restrictions on gun ownership increased crime. The UK also has gun crime... ABC Report - Problems with Gun Control The aim of politics is to keep the populace alarmed and clamorous to be saved by menacing it with imaginary hobgoblins. The urge to save humanity is a false front for the urge to rule it.
Kephael Caldari LEAP Corp Ursa Stellar Initiative	Posted - 2008.09.08 20:04:00 - [171] Edited by: Kephael on 08/09/2008 20:05:09 Originally by: Death4free well if you didnt feel like you were in any danger why do you feel the need to carry a gun around for protection? Who says he carried a firearm around at those places? Concealed Carry laws differ from state to state and not all states recognize other states concealed carry licenses.
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.08 20:05:00 - [172] Oooh... I've been staying away from this topic because it's a really difficult one. There's no easy answer, one way or the other. First off, I live in South Florida. I have felt unsafe countless times. My mom got a bullet in her car windshield when I was a kid (we were not driving through a ghetto). A middle school teacher got shot and killed a few years after I had graduated - Barry Brunow. I've had a gun pulled on me. I'm a girl. That said, if we just outright ban guns, there are still going to be some lying around. The ganster guys will still get them. Anyone who had underworld connections would still get them. But not those who wanted to keep safe from said underworld. On the other side of the coin, my ex-'s mother committed suicide a few years ago by shooting herself in the head in a period of manicness. If she wouldn't have had access to a gun, I know she would still be alive. If my ex had a gun, said ex would be dead now, and possibly, so would I. I'm not going to endorse either side too much. But I will say that I think the resolution lies somewhere in the middle - not outright banning all guns, and not letting anyone have access to them within 7 days or whatever it is. Maybe a 6 month waiting period, with a certificate needed from a psychiatrist? I know it sounds extreme, but ... even if it saved one life I would think it worth it.
Kephael Caldari LEAP Corp Ursa Stellar Initiative	Posted - 2008.09.08 20:08:00 - [173] Edited by: Kephael on 08/09/2008 20:09:03 Originally by: Amandin Adouin Oooh... I've been staying away from this topic because it's a really difficult one. There's no easy answer, one way or the other. First off, I live in South Florida. I have felt unsafe countless times. My mom got a bullet in her car windshield when I was a kid (we were not driving through a ghetto). A middle school teacher got shot and killed a few years after I had graduated - Barry Brunow. I've had a gun pulled on me. I'm a girl. That said, if we just outright ban guns, there are still going to be some lying around. The ganster guys will still get them. Anyone who had underworld connections would still get them. But not those who wanted to keep safe from said underworld. Doing the 6 month thing may cut down on gun suicides slightly, but there would be an increase in different suicide methods. It is far easiy to commit suicide through carbon monoxide poisoning than pulling a trigger. On the other side of the coin, my ex-'s mother committed suicide a few years ago by shooting herself in the head in a period of manicness. If she wouldn't have had access to a gun, I know she would still be alive. If my ex had a gun, said ex would be dead now, and possibly, so would I. I'm not going to endorse either side too much. But I will say that I think the resolution lies somewhere in the middle - not outright banning all guns, and not letting anyone have access to them within 7 days or whatever it is. Maybe a 6 month waiting period, with a certificate needed from a psychiatrist? I know it sounds extreme, but ... even if it saved one life I would think it worth it. Suicides are personal responses and do no physical harm to other people, if someone wishes to kill themselves they are free to do so. You may think your mother wouldn't have comitted suicide with a firearm but she could just as easily sat in a garage with a motor running and done it differently. It's highly likely she had access to the gun for years, what would a wait of any sort have done to prevent her from shooting herself?
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.09.08 20:15:00 - [174] Originally by: Death4free well if you didnt feel like you were in any danger why do you feel the need to carry a gun around for protection? Just because I have a gun rack doesn't mean theres a gun on it. I never took a gun to any of those places, I don't know where you got the notion that I did carry. I'm sitting at my desk at work right now as we speak, and my guns are currently in a 1100 lb safe 30 miles from me. I don't feel naked and insecure atm. Nice job assuming we're always armed though.
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.08 20:17:00 - [175] Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 08/09/2008 20:20:33 Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 08/09/2008 20:19:03 Originally by: Kephael ... I'd like to hear you say that after your mother committed suicide with a gun. The fact is that a gunshot wound to the head is the easiest way to do the trick fully. Even if she had access to other methods, it wouldn't have been quite that easy and quick to do it any other way. Honestly, she did try with other methods and didn't succeed. It just took one second with a gun though to end it all. And yeah, I don't fully understand all the waiting periods and everything, and I don't really care. I don't care all that much about this issue. However please don't even try to argue the suicide angle, when you haven't gone through it yourself. Argue a different angle.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.09.08 20:17:00 - [176] Originally by: Amandin Adouin On the other side of the coin, my ex-'s mother committed suicide a few years ago by shooting herself in the head in a period of manicness. If she wouldn't have had access to a gun, I know she would still be alive. If my ex had a gun, said ex would be dead now, and possibly, so would I. Theres also wrist slitting, hanging, medication OD, jumping off a building, stepping in front of a train, Running a car in a closed garage.... Oh the list goes on and on.
Kephael Caldari LEAP Corp Ursa Stellar Initiative	Posted - 2008.09.08 20:21:00 - [177] Edited by: Kephael on 08/09/2008 20:21:07 Originally by: Amandin Adouin Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 08/09/2008 20:19:03 Originally by: Kephael ... I'd like to hear you say that after your mother committed suicide with a gun. The fact is that a gunshot wound to the head is the easiest way to do the trick fully. Even if she had access to other methods, it wouldn't have been quite that easy and quick to do it any other way. Honestly, she did try with other methods and didn't succeed. It just took one second with a gun though to end it all. And yeah, I don't fully understand all the waiting periods and everything, and I don't really care. I had a grandfather killed by a drunk driver, is his death any different than your mothers? While both are tragic death is death.
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.08 20:35:00 - [178] Originally by: Kephael I had a grandfather killed by a drunk driver, is his death any different than your mothers? While both are tragic death is death. Well, if your grandfather died in a drunk driving accident and I never lost anyone to drunk driving, I hope I would have the tact to not say something like 'well your grandfather would have died anyway, so let's let anyone drive drunk'. I really didn't want to get drug into this thread, as I'm not some big anti-gun person. But you just had to go and say something so personally insulting that I just couldn't avoid commenting. Thanks.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.09.08 20:39:00 - [179] Kephael, could grabbing her by the ankles and dragging her into this thread and forcing her to post. Such a bad man.
Vabjekf	Posted - 2008.09.08 20:45:00 - [180] Do people in europe really think america is just a bunch of people walking around with guns? lol. There was an episode of top gear where they came to america to race somewhere. One of the used car lot salespeople showed clarkson his gun, and he freaked out! I laughed, but the truth is most people would freak out if someone you don't know suddenly has a gun when a moment bore they did not, i know i would be somewhat uneasy. Apart from on police officers you see walking around you don't commonly see a gun in america unless you are at a shooting range, out in the wilderness, or happen to be in someones house who has some guns locked up in a case or somewhere. I have a gun, i take it out once every few months and wipe it down, look it over to make sure there is no rust forming anywhere, and then put oil on it again and put it back away. Haven't shot it in probably 10 years. It was my dads. He taught me when i was 8 or 9 about guns. First with a simple bolt action .22, then with a shotgun, then with some other kinds of rifles. Wasn't until i was much older that i was allowed to even touch a handgun. Simple things. Dont put your finger on the trigger until you are ready to shoot, dont point a gun at anything you don't intent to kill with it (and by extension always be aware at where you are pointing it). Always treat a gun like its loaded. He taught me how to clean them and then finally, after all of that, he taught me how to shoot it. We used to go for walks in the woods, he had his gun, and i had mine, which was not loaded. But he would still get after me if i ever did anything wrong. Are there bans on archery in europe? It would be a shame. Ive had lots of fun shooting at targets on hay stacks as well. A gun is no more designed to kill people than a bow is. Both are simply devices that by one means or another impart energy onto a projectile in such a way that it is reasonably controllable. I could walk into a home and garden store and buy enough chemicals to make a device that could destroy a whole building.

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