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Chilperic
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Posted - 2008.09.02 21:17:00 -
[1]
GolanbatÆs Bond Service
GolanbatÆs Bond Service (GBS) is a short-term, high-return investment service that is easy to use and understand. GBS will provide a number of bonds for 500 million ISK each for sale to investors. GBS will hold that ISK for a period of two weeks (14 days) and return the ISK, plus a percentage interest. The number of bonds available for sale and the percentage return are posted in the following ôReserve Post.ö
How GBS works:
This service will be provided in a cycle.
Step One: The Start Date and number of bonds available will be issued in the ôReserve Postö at least one week prior to the Start Date.
Step Two: Potential investors may purchase bonds. See below for the procedure for purchasing bonds. Bond holders from the previous cycle may have first ædibsÆ on the current cycleÆs bonds by contacting Golanbat via in-game chat DURING the previous cycle.
Step Three: I will maintain the investorÆs ISK for two weeks (14 days) beginning on the Start Date and return the entire principal with X% interest on the fourteenth day. The percentage (X) is posted in the ôReserve Postö below prior to bonds being released for sale each cycle.
Step Four: After all ISK and interest has been distributed to the investors, a new Start Date will be issued in the ôReserve Postö and the "Reserve Post" will be updated.
Bonds may be purchased in the following manner:
1) Check the ôReserve Postö in this thread to see if there are any bonds available or any special rules that apply to the next cycle, and when the next Start Date is.
2) Eve mail Golanbat BEFORE THE START DATE. Include in the Eve-mail the number of bonds you would like to reserve for purchase and a statement on whether you would like your investment made public in this thread or not. Eve-mails will be responded to on a first-come-first-serve basis.
3) I will eve-mail you back with confirmation and the date and time by which your ISK must be received. If you do not receive an Eve-mail, then assume that the bonds have been sold out. SAVE YOURSELF TIME by checking the ôReserve Postö before sending an Eve-mail.
4) You send the ISK to Golanbat via Player Donation prior the date and time in the confirmation Eve-mail. If you fail to make payment by the date and time specified in the Eve-mail, your reserved bond(s) will be offered to the next character on the Eve-mail list.
5) Any morons who send ISK without receiving a conformation email should consider this service a scam, because I will keep your ISK. Any method of reservation (ie. in this thread) other than the above method will be ignored.
Other Notes:
-Customers may not request their ISK returned prior to the end of a cycle. (I am willing to make exceptions, but the general rule is NO return of ISK prior to the end of the cycle.)
-These bonds are in no way transferable. At the end of a cycle, I will return the principal and interest ONLY to the player who originally purchased the bond(s).
-This document is subject to edits often and without notice. Please read this post and the "Reserve Post" before purchasing any bonds.
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Golanbat
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Posted - 2008.09.02 21:19:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Golanbat on 02/09/2008 21:21:21
Note: This is the Alt that you will deal with in-game.
ôReserve Postö
Start date of next cycle: 11 Sept 08
Percentage return on next cycle: 10%
Current Bonds Available for Purchase @ 500,000,000.00 ISK each: 6 available out of 6 total
Current Investors: None
Special Rules for the next cycle: Investors that allow their names to be posted in this thread will receive an additional 1% on each bond. No more than two bonds will be sold to any one character.
Number of completed cycles: 0
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Golanbat
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Posted - 2008.09.02 21:20:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Golanbat on 02/09/2008 21:24:12
Edited by: Golanbat on 02/09/2008 21:22:33
Some information about me:
1) I will NOT submit to any audits.
2) I will NOT ask any previous business partners to post.
3) I will NOT answer questions about my business plan. I WILL clarify any parts of the service that are not clear.
4) This is NOT a public service. This is a PRIVATE service placed on a public message board to provide knowledge of its existence to the maximum number of potential private customers. Potential customers are encouraged to contact me privately or feel free to post to this thread publicly.
5) I am asking for a lot of faith here. If you do not have any of that in stock, I suggest you wait for a while until I establish a reputation.
My goals with GolanbatÆs Bond Service are four-fold. First, certainly, I want to make more ISK. Second, in the future, I want to be able to use this service to expand my operations as needed (by adding more bonds or raising the price of each bond). Third, if my service works well, I hope to eventually provide franchise opportunity to others who are looking to gain a reputation and provide similar services by backing trustworthy individuals with my own reputation. Lastly, and most importantly, I want to establish and grow a reputation for providing a needed service: an honest ISK investment opportunity that consistently returns high profits for investors on a short-term basis.
Because I have NO prior reputation, and I will NOT provide personal information, I realize that finding investors will be difficult. After one or two investors commit and are satisfied with my service, I am confident that my reputation will grow steadily. I will provide limited information about myself and alternate characters in-game or via MSN to those who inquire.
My business plan for use of the ISK garnered each cycle is simple: buy items for a low price and sell those items for high price. I obtain items from myriad sources, and I remain ultimately flexible, continually researching my markets and my strategies. It is important for potential investors understand that my fun in this game is as much to understand and unravel the Market as it is to make personal gains in ISK. Furthermore, I know my business model and this investment scheme will work because I have been testing it with private investors on a smaller scale for several cycles. I am steady but flexible. I have a steady business plan. I do not take big chances; I make steady income and grow incrementally. My business method provides steady growth and my risks are very low.
I am available to talk in game, but I spend a lot of time AFK, so if I do not respond, send me an Eve-mail. Also, please feel free to post to this thread (after reading this board for several months, I am certain there will be plenty of folks ready to post about the various perceived shortcomings of my business model).
Note that this post will be deleted after I feel I have established a solid reputation.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Zzz
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Posted - 2008.09.02 21:28:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 02/09/2008 21:31:47
Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 02/09/2008 21:30:28
I've never heard of you before. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I'd like to know why you think people can trust you with 3bn isk. You claim that you've worked with private investors - can you arrange for any of them to confirm their involvement?
If your plan involves expanding on trading, freighting or manufacturing that you've already been doing for some time, would you be prepared to let someone audit your recent activities using your full api key?
edit: I see you're not prepared to do that (yes, I took a while to write this post). You'll find it much easier to acquire investors if you confide in one person and allow them to confirm limited details. Otherwise, what you're offering is indistinguishable from a number of prominent scams.
Finally, why are you so keen on returning the entire principal at the end of each month? This seems liable to reduce the potential profits you could make, and increases the hassle for your investors, most of whom will almost certainly want to hold onto their bond for as long as you want to run it.
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Chilperic
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Posted - 2008.09.02 21:46:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Chilperic on 02/09/2008 21:49:59
Edited by: Chilperic on 02/09/2008 21:46:58
Mr. Ishiguro: Unfortunately, I will not provide any more information about my activities other than what is posted. As with every other investment, there is always the chance of "scams." I feel, however, that my practices and methods are more valuable than the benefits I would receive from allowing an audit. In that light, I would like to point out that I am offering a very high return on an investor's money. Also, I would like to point out that three billion ISK is not a scam-worthy amount, in my humble opinion. My name, my friends in this game, and my plans are much too valuable to me to attempt a scam for such an amount. Of course, I cannot prove that. So, as posted above, if faith or risk is not something you keep in stock, then I ask you to return to this post in a month or so and re-evaluate my offer.
To answer your question about the "hassle" of a two week turnover on the bond, I would like to point to the portion of my post about how a current investor may arrange to simply keep their ISK in the investment.
Edit: damit, I posted with the wrong alt again. Chilperic=Golanbat
edit: To respond to your edit about the "suspiciously high rate of return." I agree this is very high, and yes, it does cut drastically into my profits. However, I CAN maintain such a rate at this time, and as my reputation grows and the relative "safety" of this investment increases, I will reconsider the rates.
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Lexander Morinex
Caldari
LDD Investments
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Posted - 2008.09.02 21:49:00 -
[6]
My first thought is this is intended to be a joke. If it isn't, I can't think of a more customer unfriendly bond offering.
Lets look at the details:
1. An absolute refusal to accept an audit, discuss business plans, or provide any reason to suppose you either need the ISK, or can use it properly.
2. A 14-day turnaround, suggesting that you intend to roll these offers, steadily increasing the amounts.
3. A very unfriendly style of posting, including the use of the word moron when referring to potential investors.
What an interesting bond offering. 3b seems kind of low for a scam, I would assume that if you intend to scam you are going to end up going either for a Ponzi, or simply keep doing it as the amounts grow higher and higher.
I can't imagine investing in this.
- Lexander Morinex
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.09.02 21:59:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Shar Tegral on 02/09/2008 21:59:15
3,000M/400M = 1 year + of Eve playing at the expense of morons... errr, investors.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
Lexander Morinex
Caldari
LDD Investments
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Posted - 2008.09.02 22:03:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: Chilperic
In that light, I would like to point out that I am offering a very high return on an investor's money.
This is the most basic of all scam techniques. Lots of scams contain 'money back guarantees' that are essentially worthless. Offering a very high rate of return only improves the offer if the resulting probability of scam decreases slowly enough. In this case, you have done nothing to mitigate those features.
Quote:
Also, I would like to point out that three billion ISK is not a scam-worthy amount, in my humble opinion. My name, my friends in this game, and my plans are much too valuable to me to attempt a scam for such an amount. Of course, I cannot prove that. So, as posted above, if faith or risk is not something you keep in stock, then I ask you to return to this post in a month or so and re-evaluate my offer.
The second feature of a truly great scam. Pay off for awhile, get trust, make people begin to believe in you, and then pull the rug out from under them. So you pay off for a few months. Then when people are investing 100b, you can run with the money for the kicks.
Look at this objectively. This is the classic scam setup. You don't explain how you are making money, you just claim you can. You avoid all attempts to prove or evaluate your approach so that nobody gets a whiff of the danger. You base it all on your reputation.
Not to get too deep into my personal life, but Mr. Scam Artist I have to deal with semi-regularly swears he has $10,000,000 in money that 'he can't get to' while he is in jail. He has produced pictures of the money orders, gotten people on the phone to make claims, and has constructed some rather elaborate stories. The one thing he consistently refuses to do is provide any verification for his claims. It is rather sad watching him try to use that bait to get what he wants (it doesn't work, but he does it anyway).
The point of that story is that he relies on his 'reputation'. He goes to great lengths to get other people involved to 'back his story'. He has mentioned the names of living people, sent official looking documents (with notable spelling errors), even gotten people to call on his behalf. He says 'you have to trust me' and absolutely refuses to provide any concrete proof that might corner him and force him to fess up.
So unless you are willing to provide some real information, or at least provide some method of proving that you know what you are doing, I can't see why any rational person would invest. Anyone who does invest has shown they are willing to take too many risks.
- Lexander Morinex
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Zzz
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Posted - 2008.09.02 22:12:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Chilperic
I feel, however, that my practices and methods are more valuable than the benefits I would receive from allowing an audit.
You might gain more than you expect. For a start, you'd come across much more favourably if you were willing to compromise.
Quote:
In that light, I would like to point out that I am offering a very high return on an investor's money. Also, I would like to point out that three billion ISK is not a scam-worthy amount, in my humble opinion.
Again, this is quite similar to what Riethe did - he started with a small bond of a similar size, paid a 20% dividend after 1 month and then offered a large expansion.
Quote:
My name, my friends in this game, and my plans are much too valuable to me to attempt a scam for such an amount. Of course, I cannot prove that. So, as posted above, if faith or risk is not something you keep in stock, then I ask you to return to this post in a month or so and re-evaluate my offer.
No-one can prove that they won't scam (short of running a fully secured investment with assets held by a third party). What people can do, if they choose, is to offer independently verified evidence in support of the claims they make. A show of good faith on your part could make a great deal of difference. You're the one asking, and at the moment you seem to have very little to lose.
Speaking as an auditor of some experience, I can say that I value my own reputation. No-one I've dealt with has ever come to any harm from agreeing to an audit, and it favours me (and the community) to keep things that way. |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.09.02 22:19:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Lexander Morinex
Anyone who does invest has shown they are willing to take too many risks the morons the OP thinks them to be.
Fixed it for you. PS: Don't bother trying to prove to the OP that he's wasting his time. He knows that. And I think it has been sufficiently stated that this is a very poor investment vehicle. Better to go "10 for 1" in Jita than this guy. Let me be clear: This is a scam. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Ricdics
Corporate Placement Holding
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Posted - 2008.09.02 22:31:00 -
[11]
I must admit I was pretty amazed reading the OP's post. An unknown showing up on here wanting our money whilst using a very agressive tone and basically telling us we get nothing in return.
I would invest in YGR before investing in this. I just can't see it being anything but a scam. Maybe not now, maybe not next week but it's only a matter of time.
This guy wants our money. He is effectively requesting a loan. However it's like walking into the bank asking for a loan but telling them you aren't interested in filling out the application forms, you don't authorise the credit check and that you refuse to provide the name or contact details of your employer.
No bank in the world would offer a loan to the OP when looking at the kind of conditions he has imposed and I will be extremely disappointed with anyone who invests in this offering. |
Golanbat
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Posted - 2008.09.02 22:48:00 -
[12]
wow. I am duly chastised by all of the big guns. I will continue to keep this offer up, but will be doing alot of rethinking. I understand the "scam" sentiment well, but did not fully understand the backlash this post would receive is such short time.
My intention was to provide something for the "I have a bil and don't know where to invest it" market without giving up methods or personal information. As you ALL have pointed out, this is a bad idea. We live and learn. Unfortunately, the folks i had read over my post were NOT market veterans or MD gurus, and i got a COMPLETELY different response. We live and learn.
Again, I will continue to leave this offer open to any who would like to risk their isk despite the warnings of the above posters, but I will be doing much re-thinking about my plan and model for future offers.
Thanks for the quick responses.
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Danny Armstrong
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Posted - 2008.09.02 22:55:00 -
[13]
shot down in 90 minutes, must be patch day
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Golanbat
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Posted - 2008.09.02 23:06:00 -
[14]
Not shot down... opened my eyes. I intend to make a short term investment scheme work eventually. I will keep this one available in case someone does like the idea. Perhaps one or two people willing to risk 500 mil on me will risk it, be pleased with the quick turnaround, and post. If not, then back to the drawing board to take the advice of the MD folks. |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.09.02 23:20:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Golanbat
Not shot down... opened my eyes. I intend to make a short term investment scheme work eventually.
I'm sure you do intend some scheme to eventually work. First thing you can do is start posting with your main. If this isn't one of 4 - 5 disposable accounts that is. Bah... why bother. This ain't anything but a scam. |
Lexander Morinex
Caldari
LDD Investments
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Posted - 2008.09.03 01:11:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Bah... why bother.
This ain't anything but a scam.
I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. However, the bond offering would have to be heavily revised and reconsidered before I touched it. Even then, I would want to see audits and a more customer friendly approach.
- Lexander Morinex
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Rho'varo
Minmatar
Diversified Operational Services
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Posted - 2008.09.03 02:10:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Golanbat
Note that this post will be deleted after I feel I have established a solid reputation.
I realise I'm late to this thread, but I'm curious about this line in the "Some information about me" section.
Why would you want to delete this post if it were to form part of a solid reputation? And wouldn't it remain on eve-search.com anyhow, so what would be accomplished by deleting it here?
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John Holt
Caldari
ANZAC ALLIANCE
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.03 03:09:00 -
[18]
Edited by: John Holt on 03/09/2008 03:11:07
Bad attitude. Bad business plan. All the private conversations suggest scam.
John Holt
My Personal Eve Site
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2008.09.03 03:49:00 -
[19]
I have a question.
Have I spelt 'ponzi scheme' correctly?
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.09.03 04:17:00 -
[20]
Originally by: cosmoray
Have I spelt 'ponzi scheme' correctly?
Yes but you forgot the nifty Wikipedia linkage.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
Manalapan
Dynasty Banking
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Posted - 2008.09.03 04:19:00 -
[21]
Alright, since you have gotten a lot of bash and scam claiming that I agree with I like to provide constructive criticism in the off chance you are trying to be legit.
Firstly, We don't know who you are. You provide no explaination of your history and reference is always good. There is no reason to even think about trusting you if you provide nearly zero background.
Secondly, fix your tone. The tone you want would be the one if you were asking your boss for a raise. You would not snap at us to get what you want. As you saw too you snapped at us we snapped back.
Thirdly, provide some insight. I understand that you want to keep details secret to keep your income stream. But I promise that you are not the only one to do the idea, but general statements like Hub Trading, or POS Mining, or something along those lines gives us an idea of the potential you have so we can more accurately judge this system.
Most importantly. READ MD. Read the rest of the forums at other Bonds and see why they worked, what people complained about, and how they presented themselves. Also there are good templates around here for this kind of thing. An excellent one and the most standard was made by EBANK's Hexxx that I would recommend you look at.
I hope you are not a scam and that you take the advice here and elsewhere to fix your offering and try again, or at the very least make a more entertaining scam.
Dynasty Banking |
Salisuka
Caldari
98.4
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Posted - 2008.09.03 06:24:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: cosmoray
Have I spelt 'ponzi scheme' correctly?
Yes but you forgot the nifty Wikipedia linkage.
QFT
OP should have posted during the patch downtime, would have been far more entertaining.
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Roguehalo
Caldari
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.09.03 09:48:00 -
[23]
Welcome to Riethe : Mark (fill in your own number here) 
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Sarah Dent
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Posted - 2008.09.03 13:19:00 -
[24]
This should be bookmarked and used as an example on how NOT to do an IPO/Bond offering.
hint. Investors who work hard for their billions are not simply going to hand it over to someone with no reputation, no transparency, and a bad attitude.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2008.09.03 14:55:00 -
[25]
I hate these stupid joke threads people post trying to be entertaining. No, this wasn't funny.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.09.03 15:13:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Shadarle
I hate these stupid joke threads people post trying to be entertaining. No, this wasn't funny.
While I do not think this was a joke thread I do find it amusing. In a parent/mature person looking at the antics of a child trying to act precocious. Every so often some juvenile seeks to prove his manhood by pulling out a Ponzi scam. " Hehehehe, I'm going to screw them so hard", the pimpled face university student rubs his semen stained hands together, " This should make up for all the tissues and Vaseline I have to use!" After all, we have all been waiting around for five years anxiously building up all of our isks just to blithely hand it over to the first mean speaking, tough acting, trade secret holding, underachiever that dares to post. We should be grateful that such people grant us the opportunity to watch their particular form of genius in action. Grateful that but for the grace of <insert deity/belief> we have the brains to not be like them. PS: Yeah, I hate idiocy. Sue me.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
Kwint Sommer
Caldari
XERCORE
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Posted - 2008.09.03 15:58:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Roguehalo
Welcome to Riethe : Mark (fill in your own number here)
Riethe may have been a filthy scammer but he was a damn good confidence man. Attributing this to him is insulting. Give credit where credit is due.
Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals |
Sarah Dent
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Posted - 2008.09.03 16:11:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Shadarle
"Hehehehe, I'm going to screw them so hard", the pimpled face university student rubs his semen stained hands together, "This should make up for all the tissues and Vaseline I have to use!"
Ew. Thanks for that visual.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.09.03 16:27:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Sarah Dent
Ew. Thanks for that visual.
Sorry, brain isn't fully engaged yet or I wouldn't have written such a bad mental image. Having my first cup of coffee right now.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
Sarah Dent
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Posted - 2008.09.03 16:32:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Sarah Dent
Ew. Thanks for that visual.
Sorry, brain isn't fully engaged yet or I wouldn't have written such a bad mental image. Having my first cup of coffee right now.
The goatee really is you.
Now i need eye bleach to go with mind bleach.
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Mike'P
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Posted - 2008.09.03 20:22:00 -
[31]
Maybe what all of you ardent guardians of the MD forum should do is put together a list of minimum acceptable preconditions for IPOs, and get a friendly forum mod to make it a sticky. That way you wouldn't need to jump on every IPO post and waste your time to make sure that us less experienced people don't fall for any scams.
Just a thought....
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.09.03 20:26:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Mike'P
Maybe what all of you ardent guardians of the MD forum should do is put together a list of minimum acceptable preconditions for IPOs, and get a friendly forum mod to make it a sticky. That way you wouldn't need to jump on every IPO post and waste your time to make sure that us less experienced people don't fall for any scams.
Just a thought....
It would only encourage some less ardent folks to invest because it "Met the Minimum standard"
Better to just rip things apart as we see fit and let the chips fall where they may it seems. |
Athre
Minmatar
The Higher Standard
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Posted - 2008.09.03 20:26:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Mike'P
Maybe what all of you ardent guardians of the MD forum should do is put together a list of minimum acceptable preconditions for IPOs, and get a friendly forum mod to make it a sticky. That way you wouldn't need to jump on every IPO post and waste your time to make sure that us less experienced people don't fall for any scams.
Just a thought....
Several are in the stickies... Hexxx's template is recommended reading.
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Kwint Sommer
Caldari
XERCORE
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Posted - 2008.09.03 20:29:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Mike'P
Maybe what all of you ardent guardians of the MD forum should do is put together a list of minimum acceptable preconditions for IPOs, and get a friendly forum mod to make it a sticky. That way you wouldn't need to jump on every IPO post and waste your time to make sure that us less experienced people don't fall for any scams.
Just a thought....
Ya, lets make an explicate list of the requirements for people to throw money at you. Rather than someone having to think about there 'offer' and put some real effort in and it being a careful process of give and take we should just have a check list that every random ******* looking to make a few bil the easy way can go through. Ya, that would end really well.
Oh! Maybe that's why after all these years we've never done it. And here I thought it was just because no one ever thought of it. Gee, that was dumb of me....
Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals |
Kwint Sommer
Caldari
XERCORE
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Posted - 2008.09.03 20:32:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
Originally by: Mike'P
Maybe what all of you ardent guardians of the MD forum should do is put together a list of minimum acceptable preconditions for IPOs, and get a friendly forum mod to make it a sticky. That way you wouldn't need to jump on every IPO post and waste your time to make sure that us less experienced people don't fall for any scams.
Just a thought....
It would only encourage some less ardent folks to invest because it "Met the Minimum standard"
Better to just rip things apart as we see fit and let the chips fall where they may it seems.
I question your choice of pronouns.
Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals |
Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.09.03 20:39:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
Originally by: Mike'P
Maybe what all of you ardent guardians of the MD forum should do is put together a list of minimum acceptable preconditions for IPOs, and get a friendly forum mod to make it a sticky. That way you wouldn't need to jump on every IPO post and waste your time to make sure that us less experienced people don't fall for any scams.
Just a thought....
It would only encourage some less ardent folks to invest because it "Met the Minimum standard"
Better to just rip things apart as we see fit and let the chips fall where they may it seems.
I question your choice of pronouns.
Its almost quitting time, and Im still at work. Give a brotha a break  |
Mike'P
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Posted - 2008.09.03 20:42:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
It would only encourage some less ardent folks to invest because it "Met the Minimum standard"
But the minimum standard at the moment is that the OP gets through the 'ripping' of the guardians - which is the same thing as a minimum standard. I cite the "I'll take x shares pending an audit" trend...
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
Ya, lets make an explicate list of the requirements for people to throw money at you. Rather than someone having to think about there 'offer' and put some real effort in and it being a careful process of give and take we should just have a check list that every random ******* looking to make a few bil the easy way can go through. Ya, that would end really well.
Oh! Maybe that's why after all these years we've never done it. And here I thought it was just because no one ever thought of it. Gee, that was dumb of me....
I can't comment on that last part, but there is an explicit list of requirements: follow Hexxx's template and submit to being ripped on by you lot.
I was actually commenting on the amount of effort that you more experienced folks seem to expend on our behalf. It's very reassuring., but it must really put a dent in your day.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.09.03 20:45:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Mike'P
I was actually commenting on the amount of effort that you more experienced folks seem to expend on our behalf. It's very reassuring., but it must really put a dent in your day.
I would bet for some around here, getting a chance to tear someone a new one through their IPO actually brightens their day! |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.09.03 20:57:00 -
[39]
I can almost guarantee that Hexxx, and anyone else at eBank, will back me up when I say: Minimum standards are an impossibility. Each IPO, and prospective manager, are rather unique. There are so many variables in the plan itself, the processes by which it is managed, how it is accounted, the personality and capabilities of those involved... ...
Just far too many factors to create a standardized checklist. Vetting an IPO is very much an experience thing, a gut call. And I hate that this thread here is such a poor example of a gut call.
Dissecting this one is simply far too easy.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
Mike'P
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Posted - 2008.09.03 21:29:00 -
[40]
Thanks for doing it, though. I might have fallen for it otherwise.
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Aleksi Maksimovich
Black Reign
The Five
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Posted - 2008.09.03 21:38:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Mike'P
Thanks for doing it, though. I might have fallen for it otherwise.
See now this guy's posts are a good example of what trolling is. Plus it seems he doesn't like you "regulars" of MD for some reason.
__________________________________________________
Originally by: CCP Nozh
It's going to cost double for Amarr and I'm taking away your ability to warp.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.09.03 21:54:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Aleksi Maksimovich
Plus it seems he doesn't like you "regulars" of MD for some reason.
Yes, his constantly yapping at "regulars", instead of contributing, but yet he'll quickly jump on anything we approve... this tells me that in his mind we "regulars" are worthy of his meager attentions. Thus it is his trolling that tells me I am superior to him (in his mind) though I would be hard pressed to say I'm superior to anyone. Thus he endeavors to compliment me by engaging me in discourse. He feels I more than justly deserve his attention and, by trolling, he is requesting that I share some with him as well. It is a common male ritual called pecking order and, in practice, it is much safer method of gaining respect then actually posting something substantive. Doing that runs the risk of appearing foolish. So, in closing, he's got the grudge from little man's disease since he thinks he's as good as anyone here but he doesn't have the cahoonas to substantiate that with any real progressive thought or thinking or action. My own personal motto is also my favorite song: "Dare to be stupid". Daring to be stupid also runs the risk of being pure genius. I'd rather gamble and fail instead of just going straight for the failure part. That's just me though.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
Kwint Sommer
Caldari
XERCORE
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Posted - 2008.09.03 21:59:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
My own personal motto is also my favorite song: "Dare to be stupid". Daring to be stupid also runs the risk of being pure genius. I'd rather gamble and fail instead of just going straight for the failure part.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.
Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals |
cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2008.09.03 22:14:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
I can almost guarantee that Hexxx, and anyone else at eBank, will back me up when I say: Minimum standards are an impossibility. Each IPO, and prospective manager, are rather unique. There are so many variables in the plan itself, the processes by which it is managed, how it is accounted, the personality and capabilities of those involved... ...
Just far too many factors to create a standardized checklist. Vetting an IPO is very much an experience thing, a gut call. And I hate that this thread here is such a poor example of a gut call.
Dissecting this one is simply far too easy.
Agree with this.
Minimum standards are all well and good, but as pointed out above it is a 'gut call'. The standards for each IPO might change significantly.
Character
Reputation
Business Plan
IPO document
Questions answered
Intelligence
Willpower
There are many factors which influence the decision, some people give more weight to some than others. It is how IPO launchers reacts to the above traits will govern how much money they get.
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Mike'P
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Posted - 2008.09.03 22:43:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Yes, his constantly yapping at "regulars", instead of contributing, but yet he'll quickly jump on anything we approve... this tells me that in his mind we "regulars" are worthy of his meager attentions. Thus it is his trolling that tells me I am superior to him (in his mind) though I would be hard pressed to say I'm superior to anyone. Thus he endeavors to compliment me by engaging me in discourse. He feels I more than justly deserve his attention and, by trolling, he is requesting that I share some with him as well.
It is a common male ritual called pecking order and, in practice, it is much safer method of gaining respect then actually posting something substantive. Doing that runs the risk of appearing foolish.
So, in closing, he's got the grudge from little man's disease since he thinks he's as good as anyone here but he doesn't have the cahoonas to substantiate that with any real progressive thought or thinking or action.
My own personal motto is also my favorite song: "Dare to be stupid". Daring to be stupid also runs the risk of being pure genius. I'd rather gamble and fail instead of just going straight for the failure part.
That's just me though.
Crikey, did you read all my mail, put a CCTV camera in my lounge and follow me around for the past 20 years without me noticing ? 
If you interpret my questioning of the current status quo as "constantly yapping", that's not my problem. I'm sure I'm not the only one to notice that this forum is essentially broken as a vehicle for talking about the market within Eve. I'll be honest, it's one of the most antagonistic forums I've ever come across, and my only explanation for this at the moment is that you lot must have really suffered at the hands of some seriously clever scammers a few years back.... and it's just scarred you for life.
I'm sorry I haven't contributed to this forum in a way that you would count as a 'contribution', rather than a 'yapping'. Having seen how a lot of contributors get treated, I'm not entirely sure how one would cross that threshold and make it into the club.
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Mike'P
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Posted - 2008.09.03 22:46:00 -
[46]
Sorry, one final thing just for you Shar...
Originally by: Shar Tegral
...but yet he'll quickly jump on anything we approve...
I make up my own mind, do my own research, and click on my own wallet when I send ISK to someone. You can't take the credit for me deciding to risk my own money on an investment. I didn't vote you in as an advisor.
Shar's statement alone is indicative of the problem with some regular contributors to this forum; sometimes things happen not *because* of you, but either *regardless* of you or *in spite* of you.
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Antiquarian
Minmatar
Toxick Administration
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Posted - 2008.09.03 22:55:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Mike'P
Sorry, one final thing just for you Shar...
Originally by: Shar Tegral
...but yet he'll quickly jump on anything we approve...
I make up my own mind, do my own research, and click on my own wallet when I send ISK to someone. You can't take the credit for me deciding to risk my own money on an investment. I didn't vote you in as an advisor.
Shar's statement alone is indicative of the problem with some regular contributors to this forum; sometimes things happen not *because* of you, but either *regardless* of you or *in spite* of you.
Ill sign this!
__________________________________________
Curator &
Chief Business Officer
ToxicK Administration
Brutor Tribe Treasury - Rens |
Kwint Sommer
Caldari
XERCORE
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Posted - 2008.09.03 23:08:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Antiquarian
Originally by: Mike'P
Sorry, one final thing just for you Shar...
Originally by: Shar Tegral
...but yet he'll quickly jump on anything we approve...
I make up my own mind, do my own research, and click on my own wallet when I send ISK to someone. You can't take the credit for me deciding to risk my own money on an investment. I didn't vote you in as an advisor.
Shar's statement alone is indicative of the problem with some regular contributors to this forum; sometimes things happen not *because* of you, but either *regardless* of you or *in spite* of you.
Ill sign this!
Sorry but you're assumed to be lemmings unless you act otherwise and thus far I've yet to see this independent research or investment. 
Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals |
Mike'P
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Posted - 2008.09.04 00:17:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
Sorry but you're assumed to be lemmings unless you act otherwise and thus far I've yet to see this independent research or investment.
Sorry about that, Kwint, but your mind reading skills must be a little rusty. My initial response to reading an IPO thread is not to issue a stream of public text about its worthiness or otherwise, so my research might go un-noticed. But it does happen, my friend, even on your IPO. I couldn't give a rat's rear-end whether anyone else posted that they thought you were legit.
Your IPO, my ISK, my choice.
Sorry, but you're assumed to be unhelpful elitists unless you act otherwise, and thus far I've yet to see this assumption disproved. Quite why you waste your time replying to a yapping lemming like myself is a puzzle, but maybe quite revealing.
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Kwint Sommer
Caldari
XERCORE
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Posted - 2008.09.04 00:34:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Mike'P
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
Sorry but you're assumed to be lemmings unless you act otherwise and thus far I've yet to see this independent research or investment.
Sorry about that, Kwint, but your mind reading skills must be a little rusty. My initial response to reading an IPO thread is not to issue a stream of public text about its worthiness or otherwise, so my research might go un-noticed. But it does happen, my friend, even on your IPO. I couldn't give a rat's rear-end whether anyone else posted that they thought you were legit.
Your IPO, my ISK, my choice.
Sorry, but you're assumed to be unhelpful elitists unless you act otherwise, and thus far I've yet to see this assumption disproved. Quite why you waste your time replying to a yapping lemming like myself is a puzzle, but maybe quite revealing.
I normally ignore them but this instance is indeed "revealing." It reveals that I'm bored.
What can I say, not every night of my life is packed with excitement.
Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals |
Ricdic
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.09.04 00:37:00 -
[51]
I think we might need to phone the Off-Topic police
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500043
Largest Empire Research Alliance in EVE! |
Golanbat
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Posted - 2008.09.04 01:20:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Ricdic
I think we might need to phone the Off-Topic police
Oh, No! Please, continue. (nearly) Every post is a learning experience. I know I am not a scammer, and certainly next time I will work harder to get others to feel the same way.
Y'all continue, the last few posts on the "MD regulars" have been very interesting.
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Caste Ling
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Posted - 2008.09.04 05:22:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Mike'P
Maybe what all of you ardent guardians of the MD forum should do is put together a list of minimum acceptable preconditions for IPOs, and get a friendly forum mod to make it a sticky. That way you wouldn't need to jump on every IPO post and waste your time to make sure that us less experienced people don't fall for any scams.
Just a thought....
As stated above, there are stickies with some rough guidelines for minimum acceptable return etc, but if each individual deal is not scrutinized as much as it can be, even if the poster means well - something big could be left out and that's when people lose isk.
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