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Coug
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
1
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Posted - 2012.03.25 18:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've been a 0.0 pilot for most of my career, but I saw something in low sec today that I didn't understand at first. There was a -10sec status in a Legion on a gate with an Orca right next to him. After asking my corp mates what that was about, they told me about an exploit. Namely, that if the Legion pilot gets into trouble, the Orca scoops up the Legion and jumps through the gate (into Hi-Sec) completely safe from combat (and as the Orca isn't aggressing, can instantly jump).
Ultimately, this means that the criminal is 99% safe at all times (assuming the criminal is in a ship big enough that prevents him from being alpha'd).
I'm not sure what the best method to resolving this would be; if scooping a criminal should be outright prevented, if the criminal status should be contagious and transfer to the scooping ship, or what other solution would be best.
Note: I was not ganked by this Legion, but I was trying to figure out how I wanted to attack him when I was waived off by my corp mates due to the impervious nature of the setup. |
Vanessa Serenity
Scandinavian Minerals
1
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Posted - 2012.03.25 18:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
Imo, make the aggression timer also transfer to the ship. And that you may not scoop up a ship with aggression timer. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power.
Cascade Imminent
520
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Posted - 2012.03.25 19:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
this sounds gay, ccp look into this while you're replacing crimewatch |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Late Night Alliance
488
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Posted - 2012.03.25 21:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'm surprised you were unaware of this OP... considering that PL does use this mechanic to its advantage from time to time (prolly learned it from the Heretics).
This is an OOOOOOLD issue and I wholeheartedly support its end.
"Just because I seem like an idiot, doesn't mean I am one."
~Unknown |
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
124
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Posted - 2012.03.25 21:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vanessa Serenity wrote:Imo, make the aggression timer also transfer to the ship. And that you may not scoop up a ship with aggression timer.
Well it's not like you can have both of these.
I agree that this seems to be a rather flawed mechanic that should end.
Support showing T2 and faction frequency crystal damage in the info window! |
Sieges
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
40
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Posted - 2012.03.25 22:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
Vanessa Serenity wrote:Imo, make the aggression timer also transfer to the ship. And that you may not scoop up a ship with aggression timer.
This sounds good. And damn you have a hot avatar  |
Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
25
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Posted - 2012.03.26 00:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Vanessa Serenity wrote:Imo, make the aggression timer also transfer to the ship. And that you may not scoop up a ship with aggression timer. Well it's not like you can have both of these. I agree that this seems to be a rather flawed mechanic that should end.
What about a friend in a pod that jumps in the ship and jumps the gate? |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
433
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Posted - 2012.03.26 01:54:00 -
[8] - Quote
Yep, this needs adjustment IMO. Probably the most straight forward and brutal idea I have seen is, if the player has the 60 second agression counter, they simply can not use the maintinance bay.
I would also suggest that any "suspect" that does use a maintinance bay, also gives the suspect to the Orca. Also, if the Orca pilot has their Crimewatch satfties turned on, then no suspect may use their bay. |
Asudem
Asen of Asgard
16
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Posted - 2012.03.26 03:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
A pilot who gained aggression just cannot jump out of his ship - problem solved. No change for the Orca or its use needed after all.
The downside is that piracy actions where you tackle and take away someones ship will be more complicated, but I dont mind that at all. Rather I would like to see my ship pop instead of handing it over to a pirate, so **** that. |
HoWaa
Time Bandits.
Suddenly Spaceships.
2
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Posted - 2012.03.26 03:44:00 -
[10] - Quote
an orca on a gate?? what about a baiting t3 outside a station with alt carrier inside station ready to undock and rep or scoop the bait t3 ship if he cant break the tank or cant get out...Damn overpowered... |
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Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
500
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Posted - 2012.03.26 04:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
Don't engage obvious WTF is that doing there? 
Really, an orca? Something smells fishy and it isn't the girl you brought home. Move along, find another target.
And its currently working as intended. That means, its tied to the player, which is tied to the pod, which isn't tied to the ship they just jumped out. So, aim for the orca instead and ram it out side scooping range assuming you have competent back up webbing the loki farther away. ****, force the orca off grid FFS and don't worry about the Loki at first if its just 1 ship. |
Tarn Kugisa
Space Mongolian
Pinked
44
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Posted - 2012.03.26 06:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
Aqriue wrote:Don't engage obvious WTF is that doing there? Really, an orca? Something smells fishy and it isn't the girl you brought home. Move along, find another target. And its currently working as intended. That means, its tied to the player, which is tied to the pod, which isn't tied to the ship they just jumped out. So, aim for the orca instead and ram it out side scooping range assuming you have competent back up webbing the loki farther away. ****, force the orca off grid FFS and don't worry about the Loki at first if its just 1 ship.
Solution to all large ship problems - Bump them into oblivion
Real Caldari Hull Tank (And Win doing so)
Support https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16580 |
Zombo Brian
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2012.03.26 07:46:00 -
[13] - Quote
well, theorca pilot should get aggression timer because he is helping a criminal, it should be the same as repping criminals up with a logistic really
obviously an exploit, please:
fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it..... |
Asudem
Asen of Asgard
16
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Posted - 2012.03.26 09:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
Technicaly the Orca pilot doesnt do anything. He might give boosts like a ogb, but thats all. So you cannot judge it like repping or something. Even if you judge him like a repper, he still could jump without any delay. This wouldnt solve anything. |
Mark Hadden
Joint Endeavor
Bright Side of Death
6
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Posted - 2012.03.26 10:10:00 -
[15] - Quote
its your fault engaging when a ship with SMB is near, its similarly g*y as fighting at stations, you know the mechanics so if they getting used against you its your fault, HTFU & STFU |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Late Night Alliance
496
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Posted - 2012.03.27 00:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
Mark Hadden wrote:its your fault engaging when a ship with SMB is near, its similarly g*y as fighting at stations, you know the mechanics so if they getting used against you its your fault, HTFU & STFU
The problem here lies in the circumstances in which this is being used
You can CHOOSE to engage someone at a station or ignore them. It's no skin off your nose if you fly right on by
What the OP is referring to is a particular gate (Amamake-Osoggur) that happens to be a "chokepoint" with no real way around (the "alternate" route will still take you through Amamake)
My guys have, on numerous occasions in the past, attempted to blow up the camp. As soon as we appear on D-scan the camper's ships are thrown into the Orca, their pods warp away, and the Orca jumps through. We linger for about 5, 10 minutes hoping they come back... nothing does... so we leave. Not 5 minutes after this the campers are back. We go then back... rinse and repeat
Now...
Sending in tanky bait whose mission is to bump the Orca off gate is technically possible... but when you have skirmish bonused scrams and webs holding you down it isn't really possible
Black-ops gangs aren't that much more viable as the Orca is technically "neutral"... which means that in order to kill it you need to go GCC (and it doesn't require a stretch of the imagination to know what gate-guns do to stealth bombers). And the Orca can still jump through into high-sec anyways
The issue here is that there really is no way to force a fight and/or catch people using this tactic with better tactics
Personal note: I'm perfectly okay with the act of gate-camping itself. I too occasionally indulge in it. But you shouldn't be able to perform it in such a stupidly safe way.
"Just because I seem like an idiot, doesn't mean I am one."
~Unknown |
MirrorGod
Heretic Army
Heretic Nation
23
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Posted - 2012.04.10 06:36:00 -
[17] - Quote
This should be fixed.
Just as soon as we fix the MWD->Cloak->Uncloak->Warp exploit.
-10 for lyfe, it's all about the good fights.
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6070/6122338654_85e9bbfca9_z.jpg |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
184
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Posted - 2012.04.10 13:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
lol exploit?? THere is no cloak warp exploit, its a regular mechanic. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises
Purpose Built
657
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Posted - 2012.04.10 17:24:00 -
[19] - Quote
My only problem with this is the Orca should get aggression as well.
Let him pick up the aggression ship, just be ready to accept some consequences.
Possible counter to this would be a MWD fit Mach, just bump the Orca away (unless mechanics of bumping change in the next expansion). |
Tetsel
Heretic Army
Heretic Nation
21
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Posted - 2012.04.12 14:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
I think CCP should ban Titan from lowsec as using them at gate camping is 99% risk free... |
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IM0001
Dawn of a new Empire
The Initiative.
1
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Posted - 2012.04.12 15:16:00 -
[21] - Quote
Ok.. So why can't you get another group to be on the other side of the gate, then when you get the Orca to scoop everything and jump through, you gank the crap out of it on the other side?
It may be expensive on your end, but would it not be more expensive for them? Unless they have a scout/other fleet(pods) on the other side, what are they going to do? |
Astroniomix
EliteTroll
39
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Posted - 2012.04.12 15:19:00 -
[22] - Quote
IM0001 wrote:Ok.. So why can't you get another group to be on the other side of the gate, then when you get the Orca to scoop everything and jump through, you gank the crap out of it on the other side?
It may be expensive on your end, but would it not be more expensive for them? Unless they have a scout/other fleet(pods) on the other side, what are they going to do?
Because orca killmail < legion killmail. Especialy when you have to get concorded to get at the damn thing. |
IM0001
Dawn of a new Empire
The Initiative.
1
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Posted - 2012.04.12 15:49:00 -
[23] - Quote
Astroniomix wrote:IM0001 wrote:Ok.. So why can't you get another group to be on the other side of the gate, then when you get the Orca to scoop everything and jump through, you gank the crap out of it on the other side?
It may be expensive on your end, but would it not be more expensive for them? Unless they have a scout/other fleet(pods) on the other side, what are they going to do? Because orca killmail < legion killmail. Especialy when you have to get concorded to get at the damn thing.
True. But would the satisfaction of taking out an Orca with a Legion + whatever else it may hold not be sort of rewarding into itself?
Ya never know if the Orca dumps the Legion and then jumps out of the Orca to pilot it away, timed and prepped right you could at least come out with a free ship. :/
I guess it is all about the paperwork. |
Astroniomix
EliteTroll
40
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Posted - 2012.04.12 15:51:00 -
[24] - Quote
IM0001 wrote:Astroniomix wrote:IM0001 wrote:Ok.. So why can't you get another group to be on the other side of the gate, then when you get the Orca to scoop everything and jump through, you gank the crap out of it on the other side?
It may be expensive on your end, but would it not be more expensive for them? Unless they have a scout/other fleet(pods) on the other side, what are they going to do? Because orca killmail < legion killmail. Especialy when you have to get concorded to get at the damn thing. True. But would the satasfaction of taking out an Orca with a Legion + whatever else it may hold not be sort of rewarding into itself? Ya never know if the Orca dumps the Legion and then jumps out of the Orca to pilot it away, timed and prepped right you could at least come out with a free ship. :/ I guess it is all about the paperwork.
No orca pilot (or alt) is going to jeteson a legion in the 1-2 seconds it takes for a group of tornadoes to alpha him. |
KuaFu
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.04.12 16:02:00 -
[25] - Quote
I have no sympathy for anything that comes from Pandemic Legion. |
Astroniomix
EliteTroll
40
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Posted - 2012.04.12 16:05:00 -
[26] - Quote
KuaFu wrote:I have no sympathy for anything that comes from Pandemic Legion.
So you created an alt just to post in this thread? |
KuaFu
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.04.12 16:06:00 -
[27] - Quote
Astroniomix wrote:KuaFu wrote:I have no sympathy for anything that comes from Pandemic Legion. So you created an alt just to post in this thread?
Don't be so bigheaded |
IM0001
Dawn of a new Empire
The Initiative.
1
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Posted - 2012.04.12 16:13:00 -
[28] - Quote
It is a bummer that the Killmail is more important than the actual loss of an Orca + Legion I guess. Sure there is no proof (unless they video it or something) but both sides would know what they lost/killed either way. |
Chicken Pizza
Penumbra Institute
49
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Posted - 2012.04.12 16:16:00 -
[29] - Quote
Tarn Kugisa wrote:Aqriue wrote:Don't engage obvious WTF is that doing there? Really, an orca? Something smells fishy and it isn't the girl you brought home. Move along, find another target. And its currently working as intended. That means, its tied to the player, which is tied to the pod, which isn't tied to the ship they just jumped out. So, aim for the orca instead and ram it out side scooping range assuming you have competent back up webbing the loki farther away. ****, force the orca off grid FFS and don't worry about the Loki at first if its just 1 ship. Solution to all large ship problems - Bump them into oblivion
One fatal flaw in your theory: the Orca will jump the gate as soon as he sees you're approaching him in something big enough to move him off of the gate. |
bartos100
Living Ghost
6
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Posted - 2012.04.12 16:20:00 -
[30] - Quote
i think a change to the scooping mechanic is more effective
make it like jumping in a ship if it is targeted by someone you can't scoop it
meaning that once you engage the legion it can't be scooped untill you guys break lock |
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