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Djuma Nihilist
Wreckless Abandon
Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.09.04 10:46:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Djuma Nihilist on 04/09/2008 11:04:16
To make a long story short i loose a ship in a plex due to server lag in an empty system. How? I'm alligned out cause the plex has neuts and warp scrambling frigs. Frigs are dead but the guy who tanks it gets heavily nosed so he warps out and call me to warp out also. I press warp out repeatedly and nothing happens. After a couple of secs the screen refreshes i'm all out of cap and getting pounded by the rats still trying to warp out with no luck. Then i get the ship out of control lovely msg and i'm in a pod warping out. When everything is finished i send a petition for reimbursement explaining the situation and this is the msg in return i got answered that they do not reimburse ships when lag desync hits and that they just call it "NORMAL GAMEPLAY".
Just never thought of desync as normal gameplay up to now this is why i'm posting this in forums and at this point i don't even want a reimbursement.Thank you ccp
edit: GM response got removed
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Vek NaVek
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Posted - 2008.09.04 10:47:00 -
[2]
Perfectly fine, but you shouldn't post GM responses.
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Greme
Amarr
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2008.09.04 10:50:00 -
[3]
#1 your post is going to be locked/edited for a GM response.
#2 Just wondering, if lag shows up as a "Snowy TV screen" or lack of information. Surely then the way of getting information about lag/desyncs for reimbursement is to look for a hole in the information stream :) The information is in the lack of information!
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
CrayC
Gallente
CrayC Inc.
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Posted - 2008.09.04 10:50:00 -
[4]
This is not something new, unfortunatly. And yes, you should remove GM response asap...
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Devilish Ledoux
Caldari
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.09.04 10:51:00 -
[5]
The logs, they show nothing.
_
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Zana McLizzy
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Posted - 2008.09.04 10:54:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Vek NaVek
Perfectly fine, but you shouldn't post GM responses.
Why not?? So they can completely hide their little scams and inabilities to actually help people?
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Tao Han
Ginnungagaps Rymdfarargille
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.04 10:54:00 -
[7]
Quick! Get a GM Gandalf pic in here
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Ogul
Caldari
ZiTek Deepspace Explorations
United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.04 10:55:00 -
[8]
Yea, remove the GM response.
CCP doesn't want to publicly display their inconsistent actions.
---
Don't put your trust in revolutions. They always come around again. That's why they're called revolutions. People die, and nothing changes. |
CrayC
Gallente
CrayC Inc.
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Posted - 2008.09.04 10:55:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Zana McLizzy
Originally by: Vek NaVek
Perfectly fine, but you shouldn't post GM responses.
Why not?? So they can completely hide their little scams and inabilities to actually help people?
It's against the rules, that's why.
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eXtas
Atomic Battle Penguins
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Posted - 2008.09.04 10:55:00 -
[10]
uhh have they updated the default response message :P
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Riho
Gallente
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.09.04 10:56:00 -
[11]
perfectly fine response..
if you cant find a way to prove that theyr server was lagging.. you wount get reimbursed... have you thought it might have been your ISP or your PC lagging ?
iv lost 2 ships like that.... and both cases i found out after that it wasnt the eve server.. it was connection problems between my isp and the london hub :/
only one i could blame was them... doubt they would reinburse my ship tho :P
----------------------------------
Fighting for Minmatar o7
Yes... this is my main.
Extreme Troll Slayer...
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Volarius
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.09.04 11:03:00 -
[12]
You're reading it wrong.
The GM didn't say desyncs were normal gameplay, he said that they considder it normal gameplay, because they can't see anything wrong server side. It's his way of saying "it is very well possible that you experienced desync, but because it isn't possible to prove this we, the GM's, have to assume it was normal gameplay, otherwise people would talk advantage of this easy reimbursement tactic.".
Lag and desync needs to be fixed badly, I agree.
But what this GM sent you is the way it should be replied too. I bet that 90% of all the petitions they get are fake desync/lag reimbursment stories.
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Djuma Nihilist
Wreckless Abandon
Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.09.04 11:08:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Volarius
You're reading it wrong.
I bet that 90% of all the petitions they get are fake desync/lag reimbursment stories.
You could be right about that and this is why i don't even want a reimbursement if it's going to be treated like that. Just found it weird and petitionable the gms thought it was normal gameplay while i thought it was desync f**kup.
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Cygnus Zhada
Amarr
Reckless Corsairs
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Posted - 2008.09.04 11:30:00 -
[14]
Here's the reason why; You run into trouble (your tank starts to fail in PVE and you're scrambled, or you run into a blob/gatecamp), you close your internet connetion (takes about 1 second) and then claim DC or desynch.
Not saying YOU do it, but it's not difficult for CCP to 'notice' that communication with the client stopped while gameplay was still going on. The problem is that they can't distinguish between a genuine DC/desynch or people closing their connection on purpose.
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Gonada
Gallente
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.04 11:32:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Gonada on 04/09/2008 11:33:34
ok
lets look at the OP's post.
he wasnt tanking the event
there were lots of WARP scrambling enemy, and neut's around.
The tank took off.
No, OP , most likely the bit of lag generated was by the hoard of enemy locking you, and unless you had a full rack of WCS you were doomed.
Please, jump into traffic
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VicturusTeSaluto
Metafarmers
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Posted - 2008.09.04 11:35:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Vek NaVek
Perfectly fine, but CCP shouldn't remove GM responses.
FIXT
If all CCP ever did was provide good service, then they would have nothing to hide.
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Muad' Dib
Gallente
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2008.09.04 11:39:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 04/09/2008 11:41:45
Originally by: Djuma Nihilist
Edited by: Djuma Nihilist on 04/09/2008 11:04:16
To make a long story short i loose a ship in a plex due to server lag in an empty system. How? I'm alligned out cause the plex has neuts and warp scrambling frigs. Frigs are dead but the guy who tanks it gets heavily nosed so he warps out and call me to warp out also. I press warp out repeatedly and nothing happens. After a couple of secs the screen refreshes i'm all out of cap and getting pounded by the rats still trying to warp out with no luck. Then i get the ship out of control lovely msg and i'm in a pod warping out. When everything is finished i send a petition for reimbursement explaining the situation and this is the msg in return i got answered that they do not reimburse ships when lag desync hits and that they just call it "NORMAL GAMEPLAY".
Just never thought of desync as normal gameplay up to now this is why i'm posting this in forums and at this point i don't even want a reimbursement.Thank you ccp
edit: GM response got removed
I noticed this after the patch as well. Luckily enough, my ship could perma-tank the plex. :)
I believe the OP, because after patch, this has happened to me too. Desyncs with only me in local, 40+ s response time in modules, scramblers not activating. The worst one was when i had to relog every time i changed session - first 12hs after new patch. I had less problems with my Jita alt ffs.
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I smack just for myself.
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RaTTuS
BIG
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.09.04 11:47:00 -
[18]
don't sound like desync at all
Originally by: Gonada
Edited by: Gonada on 04/09/2008 11:33:34
ok
lets look at the OP's post.
he wasnt tanking the event
there were lots of WARP scrambling enemy, and neut's around.
The tank took off.
No, OP , most likely the bit of lag generated was by the hoard of enemy locking you, and unless you had a full rack of WCS you were doomed.
you mate did it wrong - he shoudl of gang warped everyone out or told you to go 1st
--
BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve
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Djuma Nihilist
Wreckless Abandon
Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.09.04 11:49:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Gonada
Edited by: Gonada on 04/09/2008 11:33:34
there were lots of WARP scrambling enemy, and neut's around.
As i mentioned in my first post warp scrambling frigs where down and i was alligned and hit warp at the moment the tank took off and called it on ts.
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Aaron Mirrorsaver
R.E.C.O.N.
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Posted - 2008.09.04 12:09:00 -
[20]
there logs show you got the data, just not that it came in the form of snail mail. |
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Cat Gilligan
Caldari
Blair Corporation
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Posted - 2008.09.04 12:43:00 -
[21]
CCP's denial of server side lag EVER being to blame for ship losses makes as much sense as being a member of the "Flat Earth Society".
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Shenko Minara
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Posted - 2008.09.04 13:00:00 -
[22]
Just FYI, the GMs will never reveal their logs since it would highlight how little information is actually recorded by the server. Other times it's simply a lack of common sense on the part of the GM in question; interpreting log data (no matter how sketchy) is not a basic task.
Also, try to bear in mind that client/server synchronisation is a fundamental tennet of networked software. Any moron that has completed even a single semester (of anything software related) at university could tell you that. When operating at a corporate level, especially on the economic scales Eve Online does, there is little, if any excuse for desynch being present in the product. Lag is arguable, but desynch really isn't; it's just poor software.
Good luck, but unless you're a no-name, empire-dwelling, L4 mission runner, you'll never get anything but grief from the GMs when it comes to lag/desynch.
--
99% of Eve-o posters should stop posting. This probably includes me, but definitely includes you. |
Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
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Posted - 2008.09.04 13:03:00 -
[23]
Ask to escalate it to a senior GM and do not mention "lag" if you think there was none (due to the system being emtpy). Seems like a bug to me and desyncs are certainly not "normal gameplay", even for EVE.
AFAIK they are only claiming that losses due to lag are to be expected when you put yourself in a situation where lag is expected (fleet fights).
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.09.04 13:08:00 -
[24]
GMS have always been very fair and professional the few times ive dealt with them. Sometimes theve seen my way of thinking - sometiems theve refused it.
In fact they are a shining perl in amongst the rest of the gunk in the ccp oyster.
SKUNK |
Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr
Imperial Servants
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Posted - 2008.09.04 13:16:00 -
[25]
One possible scenario for this "glitch" could be the following:
Some switch on the way to the server is dead and the server never receives the warp message. Neither do you receive any updates from the server. Shown by no response on your screen.
After a minute, the other switches have found a way around the dead switch or the switch got revived. Now the server receives your message and you the messages from the server. Situation is very different and your dead.
How is this CCP or the servers fault? |
Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
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Posted - 2008.09.04 13:21:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes
How is this CCP or the servers fault?
It's how the Internet works and to detect such outages, you usually send keep-alive packets in any application where it's helpful to know that the client or server has disconnected. So basically if that was the problem, he should have e-warped to safety on the server side.
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr
Imperial Servants
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Posted - 2008.09.04 13:28:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Pan Crastus
Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes
How is this CCP or the servers fault?
It's how the Internet works and to detect such outages, you usually send keep-alive packets in any application where it's helpful to know that the client or server has disconnected. So basically if that was the problem, he should have e-warped to safety on the server side.
Usually the server will just broadcast in "blind". It will not request confirmation for packages. So ofcourse it will take a while before any "hey, are you alive?" message will be send out. Sending several "live" messages every second is a waste of trafic and server resources.
But the root cause is still the dead switch between the EvE server and the client.. not a hicup on the server. And so, no reimbursement for the loss.
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar
17th Minmatar Tactical Wing
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Posted - 2008.09.04 13:44:00 -
[28]
Your crappy interweb connection is not an excuse to get your ship back.
I very much doubt, a low sec system with a couple rats lagged on CCP's side.
Get over it.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.09.04 13:44:00 -
[29]
The logs show nothing. Using our magical powers of extrapolation we have determined that you did in fact click the 'terminate character' button before being disconnected, so we have biomassed your character and created an account on a WoW server for you.
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DesuSigs |
Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.09.04 13:55:00 -
[30]
They will only replace ships if its proven that the it was at the fault of bad programming or the sever hiccupped.
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
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