EVE Search - Why do they tell me the Astarte sucks????

All Channels

Ships and Modules

Why do they tell me the Astarte sucks????

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Eternum Praetorian Tupperware Party	Posted - 2008.09.05 01:39:00 - [1] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 05/09/2008 01:43:58 Granted I have never flown one before (thus why I am asking) But with 5 % bonus to Damage, 7.5% armor repairer, + another 5% to damage and 10% to fall off. (not to mention drone bay) It seems to me like this will be a pretty mean beast post nano nerf??? Others just don't seem to agree . . . And so I come here to ask why? In my opinion: 4 mid slots, 6 low slots and 7 turret hard points sounds pretty good to me. And I like the idea of being able to change damage types as well. BC signature radius should mean little VS other BC vessels and its tank should fair well enough VS a BS (without to much delusions of grandeur) The fall off bonus + weber + drones should mean it would fair well enough DPS wise VS smaller ships with less tank then it (especially post Nano Nerf) So It may not be the ultimate PVP ship, but I just don't see how it can be a "hulking peace of crap" like others have so eloquently put. What am I missing???
Hunduran	Posted - 2008.09.05 01:55:00 - [2] most ppl are simply under the impression that if a battleship can do the same thing only better and with more hp for cheaper.. then there is no reason to fly the ship. that's where ppl fail.. they all whine about boohoo a t2 ship cant solo a battleship.. battleships were never meant to be beaten at the dealing/soaking damage role. anyone who says otherwise is ridiculous. the only thing wrong with astarte is that it's role is to carry a warfare link.. but with all your highs being guns.. that doesn't work so well. after the speed changes the astarte will be faster and therefore it'll have another reason to fly it. I'd say use ambit extension rigs and do a crap ton of dps from nice range
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2008.09.05 02:10:00 - [3] use rails and bbq support
Mr Ignitious Gallente R.E.C.O.N.	Posted - 2008.09.05 02:17:00 - [4] Originally by: Hunduran most ppl are simply under the impression that if a battleship can do the same thing only better and with more hp for cheaper.. then there is no reason to fly the ship. that's where ppl fail.. they all whine about boohoo a t2 ship cant solo a battleship.. battleships were never meant to be beaten at the dealing/soaking damage role. anyone who says otherwise is ridiculous. the only thing wrong with astarte is that it's role is to carry a warfare link.. but with all your highs being guns.. that doesn't work so well. after the speed changes the astarte will be faster and therefore it'll have another reason to fly it. I'd say use ambit extension rigs and do a crap ton of dps from nice range umm what? You dont fit gang mods on the astarte... thats what the eos is for... If you got money, go for it, astarte is fun, however a mega is better is a lot more cost effective (until web nerf)
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.09.05 03:27:00 - [5] Originally by: Mr Ignitious Originally by: Hunduran most ppl are simply under the impression that if a battleship can do the same thing only better and with more hp for cheaper.. then there is no reason to fly the ship. that's where ppl fail.. they all whine about boohoo a t2 ship cant solo a battleship.. battleships were never meant to be beaten at the dealing/soaking damage role. anyone who says otherwise is ridiculous. the only thing wrong with astarte is that it's role is to carry a warfare link.. but with all your highs being guns.. that doesn't work so well. after the speed changes the astarte will be faster and therefore it'll have another reason to fly it. I'd say use ambit extension rigs and do a crap ton of dps from nice range umm what? You dont fit gang mods on the astarte... thats what the eos is for... If you got money, go for it, astarte is fun, however a mega is better is a lot more cost effective (until web nerf) Sometimes ppl need to realise that a bs is NOT always better, one needs to take such things in to mind such as speed, agility, lock time etc (lock time is huge as if your bhs is so slow that it cnat lock something in time before red runs away or dies, your useless for your fleet and will get on no km's). Most fc's prefer sub-bs for roams..Think of them as mini-bs's. However looking at cost effectiveness vs. a t1 bc, your often better off with those, tho its much less fun.. Proudly annoying FC's since 2007 Remove m for manditory in mwd!
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.09.05 03:33:00 - [6] Originally by: Eternum Praetorian 4 mid slots, 6 low slots and 7 turret hard points sounds pretty good to me. Combined with a rep bonus, it doesn't sound preety good for me personally. Think about this: a Astarte does the DPS of your average gank BC if you decide to fit a active tank and put a single MFS II in, while having preety much the same effective HP as your average gank BC, and a not very impressive 500 DPS tank. If you decide to plate it, you've just lost a ship bonus in addition to sucking up the grid which you're sorely lacking on (if you want to fit proper guns). Given your only advantage over a average gank-fit BC is a 500 DPS tank (if you decide to use its bonuses), what would be the point of flying a Astarte over one? I mean, there's a small issue of price, not to mention phrases like 'juicy target'. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.09.05 03:36:00 - [7] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Eternum Praetorian 4 mid slots, 6 low slots and 7 turret hard points sounds pretty good to me. Combined with a rep bonus, it doesn't sound preety good for me personally. Think about this: a Astarte does the DPS of your average gank BC if you decide to fit a active tank and put a single MFS II in, while having preety much the same effective HP as your average gank BC, and a not very impressive 500 DPS tank. If you decide to plate it, you've just lost a ship bonus in addition to sucking up the grid which you're sorely lacking on (if you want to fit proper guns). Given your only advantage over a average gank-fit BC is a 500 DPS tank (if you decide to use its bonuses), what would be the point of flying a Astarte over one? I mean, there's a small issue of price, not to mention phrases like 'juicy target'. the P.I.M.P. factor is always a must have in the days of drakes n nano hacs Proudly annoying FC's since 2007 Remove m for manditory in mwd!
forum mematar Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.05 03:38:00 - [8] You arent missing anything I think. Ofcourse they are worse than a bs in most cases but damn are they much more fun to fly! --- http://stige.pingtimeout.net/evevids/
Wil Smithx Minmatar Suns Of Korhal	Posted - 2008.09.05 08:47:00 - [9] Originally by: BiggestT Sometimes ppl need to realise that a bs is NOT always better, one needs to take such things in to mind such as speed, agility, lock time etc (lock time is huge as if your bhs is so slow that it cnat lock something in time before red runs away or dies, your useless for your fleet and will get on no km's). Most fc's prefer sub-bs for roams..Think of them as mini-bs's. However looking at cost effectiveness vs. a t1 bc, your often better off with those, tho its much less fun.. As I remember the hyperion is more agile and faster. No? There is at the moment about no reson to fly astarte over a hype apart from maybe tracking. But you will do like twice the raw dps anyways...
Gamesguy Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.09.05 09:21:00 - [10] Because a mega can do everything better for cheaper. Mega does more dps, check. Mega has more tank, check. Mega can fit a heavy neut, check. Mega can hit the same targets(webbed), more or less check. So why bother with the astarte when you can have a mega that does everything but better? You want agility and speed? You can fit a mega to be faster and more agile than an astarte but still tank/gank better. Eos just sucks atm, no point to gallente cs.
Imaos	Posted - 2008.09.05 09:51:00 - [11] Originally by: Cpt Branko Think about this: a Astarte does the DPS of your average gank BC if you decide to fit a active tank and put a single MFS II in, while having preety much the same effective HP as your average gank BC, and a not very impressive 500 DPS tank. 500 DPS at optimal+falloff. The problem with the astarte is the range. It is really small. DPS isn't bad. And the agility is better than the hyperion: 100m/s faster with MWD on. 0.75x aligntime of hyp. (Only one Mag Stab on the hyp vs 2 on the astarte) 998 dps on my starte (before implants, faction ammo), 2426 volley 741 dps on my hyperion (same as above), 3496 volley Double the hp on the hyp. Double the weapon range on the hyp. Imaos ------------------------------------------ Originally by: NoNah My friend, this is EVE, as it's a space oriented game, they couldn't have trolls. We have Caldari.
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.09.05 09:57:00 - [12] Originally by: Imaos Originally by: Cpt Branko Think about this: a Astarte does the DPS of your average gank BC if you decide to fit a active tank and put a single MFS II in, while having preety much the same effective HP as your average gank BC, and a not very impressive 500 DPS tank. 500 DPS at optimal+falloff. I was talking about the 'tank' on it (assuming 1 magstab). Anyway, when looking at optimal+falloff DPS, don't forget to factor in hit quality degradation. It results in a turret ship doing about 39% damage at said range rather then 50% (so EFT charts are, in fact, wrong). That makes range issues even worse Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Eternum Praetorian Tupperware Party	Posted - 2008.09.05 12:45:00 - [13] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 05/09/2008 12:46:23 Originally by: Gamesguy Because a mega can do everything better for cheaper. Mega does more dps, check. Mega has more tank, check. Mega can fit a heavy neut, check. Mega can hit the same targets(webbed), more or less check. So why bother with the astarte when you can have a mega that does everything but better? You want agility and speed? You can fit a mega to be faster and more agile than an astarte but still tank/gank better. Eos just sucks atm, no point to gallente cs. And when webs get nerfed??? Do you think this will still hold true?? I am talking about . . . mostly 1v1 and small gangs.
Ignatious Mei	Posted - 2008.09.05 13:08:00 - [14] Originally by: Hunduran most ppl are simply under the impression that if a battleship can do the same thing only better and with more hp for cheaper.. then there is no reason to fly the ship. that's where ppl fail.. they all whine about boohoo a t2 ship cant solo a battleship.. battleships were never meant to be beaten at the dealing/soaking damage role. anyone who says otherwise is ridiculous. the only thing wrong with astarte is that it's role is to carry a warfare link.. but with all your highs being guns.. that doesn't work so well. after the speed changes the astarte will be faster and therefore it'll have another reason to fly it. I'd say use ambit extension rigs and do a crap ton of dps from nice range LOL. Yep, I'm one of those epic fail people then. When I started reading your post I actually thought you were trying to be sarcastically clever.
Stork DK Minmatar Synthetic Frontiers	Posted - 2008.09.05 13:14:00 - [15] In my opinion, anything that can dish out 1k dps + is deffo worth training for =] imo what you need to do is stop reading my sig ___________ Originally by: CCP Nozh I see you'r nano... And i TAKE IT!!
InsanlyEvlPerson Gallente Mercenaries International Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.05 13:23:00 - [16] Well, i think they will be better after the web/speed nerf. once the blaster BS's cant web their targets as well, the extra tracking of the medium guns will end up doing more dps against smaller targets, assuming you can overcome the range issues. this is true of ALL commandships, though some have less range issues than others.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.05 13:26:00 - [17] Astarte's problem is that, while it is a blaster ship, it is also a blaster ship. what do I mean with that? active tanks in a blaster ship is the same thing as you try to active-tank a tachy abaddon: you can, in theory, but you'll be out of cap faster than speedy gonzales. coupled with the fact that blasters are, inherently, very short range and cap hungry, and the grid needed for passive setups (thus discarding the rep bonus). Sure, you have a 4th mid to slap an injector there, but then you'll be pretty much gimping your operability range, and the BC agility isn't that hot either. In most situations where the Astarte can be employed, the deimos or the megathron can do the same for less (deimos for faster gangs, or megathron for heavier gangs). in sum, the astarte, while pretty much a dps monster, it also tries to put 2 worlds (BS dps in a smaller, more agilie ship) together, and rather fails at it. The only situation where I would use it, it would be in a cruiser-sized gang, being the main hitter, backed up by lot of support, and even so, the gang would be slowed down by it. BC-sized ships, I prefer the abso and the damnation, being the abso with the ability of hitting fast targets at <25km range, and the armor bonuses that the damnation has. --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
ZephyrLexx Caldari Earth Federation Space Forces	Posted - 2008.09.05 13:29:00 - [18] Originally by: Hunduran most ppl are simply under the impression that if a battleship can do the same thing only better and with more hp for cheaper.. then there is no reason to fly the ship. that's where ppl fail.. they all whine about boohoo a t2 ship cant solo a battleship.. battleships were never meant to be beaten at the dealing/soaking damage role. anyone who says otherwise is ridiculous. the only thing wrong with astarte is that it's role is to carry a warfare link.. but with all your highs being guns.. that doesn't work so well. after the speed changes the astarte will be faster and therefore it'll have another reason to fly it. I'd say use ambit extension rigs and do a crap ton of dps from nice range you go on about people pidgeonholing ships into certain areas and such, and then you go on to say "xxx's ships role is to do this xxx" when no, it really isn't, you can do whatever you like with your ship.
Heknai Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2008.09.05 14:31:00 - [19] Originally by: Wil Smithx Originally by: BiggestT Sometimes ppl need to realise that a bs is NOT always better, one needs to take such things in to mind such as speed, agility, lock time etc (lock time is huge as if your bhs is so slow that it cnat lock something in time before red runs away or dies, your useless for your fleet and will get on no km's). Most fc's prefer sub-bs for roams..Think of them as mini-bs's. However looking at cost effectiveness vs. a t1 bc, your often better off with those, tho its much less fun.. As I remember the hyperion is more agile and faster. No? There is at the moment about no reson to fly astarte over a hype apart from maybe tracking. But you will do like twice the raw dps anyways... well if you have specialized in medium hybrids (like myself lolz) and don't have t2 large hybrids then the astarte might seem very appealing --In times of strife and desperation, heroes are made of ordinary men...
Hunduran	Posted - 2008.09.05 15:28:00 - [20] then fly a bs is all im saying
Oli Robbo Gallente Galactic Defence Syndicate Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.05 15:34:00 - [21] Originally by: ZephyrLexx Originally by: Hunduran most ppl are simply under the impression that if a battleship can do the same thing only better and with more hp for cheaper.. then there is no reason to fly the ship. that's where ppl fail.. they all whine about boohoo a t2 ship cant solo a battleship.. battleships were never meant to be beaten at the dealing/soaking damage role. anyone who says otherwise is ridiculous. the only thing wrong with astarte is that it's role is to carry a warfare link.. but with all your highs being guns.. that doesn't work so well. after the speed changes the astarte will be faster and therefore it'll have another reason to fly it. I'd say use ambit extension rigs and do a crap ton of dps from nice range you go on about people pidgeonholing ships into certain areas and such, and then you go on to say "xxx's ships role is to do this xxx" when no, it really isn't, you can do whatever you like with your ship. Yeah you can... if you want it to fail
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.09.05 15:50:00 - [22] Astarte is a good field command ship for soloing. Id fit rails for larger gangs/fleets though.
Shina Windol Caldari House Liao	Posted - 2008.09.05 16:05:00 - [23] Eternum, it's not that the Astarte isn't mean...cause it packs a helluva punch...it's just a combination of factors that can hurt the Astarte in less than ideal circumstances. Webs and long range engagements are your bane. You have to get close to be effective with most fits, so if you get caught and held outside your optimal, they'll tear you apart. The dmg is good, but most gank BSs (Geddon, Mega, Torp Raven) can shred you quickly if you're caught by them. Best way to fly an Astarte is either with friends for support or when/where you get to choose your fights. ------------------- Originally by: Vrabac ...for a moment I thought "You idiot, you just attacked God".
Orion GUardian Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.05 16:27:00 - [24] Originally by: Grimpak Astarte's problem is that, while it is a blaster ship, it is also a blaster ship. what do I mean with that? active tanks in a blaster ship is the same thing as you try to active-tank a tachy abaddon: you can, in theory, but you'll be out of cap faster than speedy gonzales. coupled with the fact that blasters are, inherently, very short range and cap hungry, and the grid needed for passive setups (thus discarding the rep bonus). Sure, you have a 4th mid to slap an injector there, but then you'll be pretty much gimping your operability range, and the BC agility isn't that hot either. hmmhmmjust a curious OT question: A pnassive Tank setting would be "getting lots of plates and hoping it is not destroyed before your enemy is?
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.09.05 16:41:00 - [25] Originally by: Wil Smithx Originally by: BiggestT Sometimes ppl need to realise that a bs is NOT always better, one needs to take such things in to mind such as speed, agility, lock time etc (lock time is huge as if your bhs is so slow that it cnat lock something in time before red runs away or dies, your useless for your fleet and will get on no km's). Most fc's prefer sub-bs for roams..Think of them as mini-bs's. However looking at cost effectiveness vs. a t1 bc, your often better off with those, tho its much less fun.. As I remember the hyperion is more agile and faster. No? There is at the moment about no reson to fly astarte over a hype apart from maybe tracking. But you will do like twice the raw dps anyways... ..I have no idea what ur talking about lol, Astarte is faster and has like 1/10th the mass so will definately be more agile.. And yeah the lock time is a big thing.. Course a hyp wld be more "cost effective" but an fc wld hate you in his gang and ud be far less pimp Proudly annoying FC's since 2007 Remove m for manditory in mwd!
Bronson Hughes ADVANCED Combat and Engineering	Posted - 2008.09.05 16:48:00 - [26] The Astarte doesn't suck so much as its performance is not worth the price. Its a good blaster ship, but you can get similar-or-better DPS, and often times better mobility, out of far less expensive and easier-to-train for ships. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.05 16:49:00 - [27] Originally by: Orion GUardian Originally by: Grimpak Astarte's problem is that, while it is a blaster ship, it is also a blaster ship. what do I mean with that? active tanks in a blaster ship is the same thing as you try to active-tank a tachy abaddon: you can, in theory, but you'll be out of cap faster than speedy gonzales. coupled with the fact that blasters are, inherently, very short range and cap hungry, and the grid needed for passive setups (thus discarding the rep bonus). Sure, you have a 4th mid to slap an injector there, but then you'll be pretty much gimping your operability range, and the BC agility isn't that hot either. hmmhmmjust a curious OT question: A pnassive Tank setting would be "getting lots of plates and hoping it is not destroyed before your enemy is? passive tanks relies on you outganking your enemy deimos does it to some extent, altho 24k EHP and 1km optimal with faction AM in a full gank neutron deimos makes you rely on med ECM drones and the over 520dps your guns dish out more than anything else. and that's how I believe blaster ships should be: "Do or Die" --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Orion GUardian Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.05 17:17:00 - [28] Ok, just after the word "Damage is the best tank" I see
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.05 17:21:00 - [29] Originally by: Orion GUardian Ok, just after the word "Damage is the best tank" I see yes, unless it's a drake --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Azuse Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests Pure.	Posted - 2008.09.05 18:02:00 - [30] Because those stats don't take into account eh hulk mass of the bloody ship. A mwd mega will outrun an astarte, f*** a harb with 1600mm plate move faster (and btw kills the astarte since it cant web the harb). Simply put, when they reduced the diemost's mass they did it so that it could ge into range, astarte never got that love, just like the diemost never got the rep bonus they put on sis last year. If it was lighter and could move like a blaster needs to then yes, it would be a beast, as is buy an abso and load scorch (or a harb, really), and pray that they fix this mass with the nano changes. -------------------------
Djerin Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.09.05 19:30:00 - [31] Originally by: Azuse astarte never got that love, just like the diemost never got the rep bonus they put on sis last year. I'm oh so thankful the Deimos didn't get that terrible bonus. A tanking bonus on a blasterboat is pretty much useless imho. As Grimpack wrote the tank drains your cap. So do the MWD and the guns. Considering that a tank wont help you at all in most situations where you're either not fired on or primaried i believe this bonus is utter crap. I once had an Astarte too. It was so hard to get in range and do something useful, that i got totally mad about it. I sold it and bought a Deimos. At least that one is working as intended. Also if you have good skills a Mega is indeed superior to an Astarte in pretty much every way except for shooting at Vagas maybe. ---- Sarmaul's crosstrainorgtfo
venus divine	Posted - 2008.09.05 22:57:00 - [32] ohh, and nobody mentioned, that on heavy neutralizer will kill u and your cap in two cycles.. and every BS i've seen lately packs a heavy neut this days..
Kuzya Morozov Gallente L8L8L8	Posted - 2008.09.05 23:10:00 - [33] Edited by: Kuzya Morozov on 05/09/2008 23:12:50 Originally by: BiggestT Sometimes ppl need to realise that a bs is NOT always better, one needs to take such things in to mind such as speed, agility, lock time etc (lock time is huge as if your bhs is so slow that it cnat lock something in time before red runs away or dies, your useless for your fleet and will get on no km's). Most fc's prefer sub-bs for roams..Think of them as mini-bs's. However looking at cost effectiveness vs. a t1 bc, your often better off with those, tho its much less fun.. Christ, have you EVER flown an astarte OR a mega? The Astarte is equally fast, if not slower, than the Mega when fit with armor rigs. Without armor rigs, it is only marginally faster. Speed doesn't even MATTER that much, because once you've done that 10-20k into range, your speed advantage drops and the higher dps/tank of the Mega kicks in. Agility, what do you need agility for? Aligning out of a gate camp, when the Astarte aligns like a brick and is MINIMALLY more agile than a Mega/Hype? Making that turn 0.5 seconds faster? Seriously, when people say a BC is more agile/speedy, why does it matter for BLASTER boats who fight in POINT BLANK RANGE. It might matter for a Sleip, maybe even an Abso, who can kite targets with some success. Also, if you think BS are supposed to be tacklers in fleets and "cnat lock something in time", you obviously haven't flown in a fleet before, because fleets have DEDICATED TACKLERS that have a HIGH SCAN RESOLUTION. Astarte does not boast super high scan res or lock range, in fact, is it not much better than a Battleship or T1 BC. Not to mention that a Mega has THREE more sensor strength, something that is very important in today's world of I-won't-engage-you-without-a-falcon. Finally, if you want to talk cost effectiveness, a BS will do everything an Astarte can for HALF THE PRICE. /rant Edit: not to mention, like everyone else said, one heavy neut will kill your cap in an Astarte, hell even a medium neut. Astarte itself has a very tight fit and very tight cap, so that with your guns + tank running you will cap out yourself very fast. A Mega has more cap, more sensor strength, more fitting variations, better range/falloff with large blasters, better tank (although here it depends what damage type you are fighting), better DPS, and better cost.
Shosoru Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.05 23:24:00 - [34] Edited by: Shosoru on 05/09/2008 23:38:26 The "Pimp" factor. An Astarte costs 130m and you get idk maybe 40 back if you payed the idk 10m insurance so you loos about 100m if it gos down but hay its pimped . but w8 an vigilance is at 80m per down and ALLOT more pimped - see wear im going. Now lets get down to real e-peen stuff an navy mega ~260m (i think they gone up a bit) if it gos down you loos about 120m-150m and a navy mega is e-peen + 15cm Or you go relay expensive, a Kronos has no web problems, a Vindicator or a Machariel are allot more agile then any other bs/bc and e-peen +25cm the losses of those ships are at 500-1.1m so bottom line the time it takes to get good command ship skills is about as much as the time for large guns and/or bsV. The only realy good thing about Command ships are the Warfare Links witch are awsome but the ship is the smalest problem about those skills and tbh WHY DID THEY NOT GIVE THE EOS A DRONE BANDWIDTH BONUS T_T ------------------------------ WTB: Minmatar X-Type Duck-Tape
Strill	Posted - 2008.09.05 23:30:00 - [35] Edited by: Strill on 05/09/2008 23:32:39 Edited by: Strill on 05/09/2008 23:30:23 Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 05/09/2008 01:43:58 Granted I have never flown one before (thus why I am asking) But with 5 % bonus to Damage, 7.5% armor repairer, + another 5% to damage and 10% to fall off. (not to mention drone bay) It seems to me like this will be a pretty mean beast post nano nerf??? Others just don't seem to agree . . . And so I come here to ask why? In my opinion: 4 mid slots, 6 low slots and 7 turret hard points sounds pretty good to me. And I like the idea of being able to change damage types as well. BC signature radius should mean little VS other BC vessels and its tank should fair well enough VS a BS (without to much delusions of grandeur) The fall off bonus + weber + drones should mean it would fair well enough DPS wise VS smaller ships with less tank then it (especially post Nano Nerf) So It may not be the ultimate PVP ship, but I just don't see how it can be a "hulking peace of crap" like others have so eloquently put. What am I missing??? You're missing the fact that the absolution and nighthawk's resistance bonuses effectively give them the following at level 5: 33.33% bonus to personal repairer effectiveness 33.33% bonus to the effectiveness of remote repair modules used on you 33.33% bonus to armor or shield hp 33.33% bonus to passive shield regeneration (in the case of shield resistances) So basically they get the astarte's bonus to personal reppers, on top of a bonus to logistics ships' effectiveness, and a bonus to their buffer tank. The resistance bonus is flat-out better than the armor repair bonus.
Mr Ignitious Gallente R.E.C.O.N.	Posted - 2008.09.06 00:26:00 - [36] Originally by: Strill 33.33% bonus to personal repairer effectiveness 33.33% bonus to the effectiveness of remote repair modules used on you 33.33% bonus to armor or shield hp 33.33% bonus to passive shield regeneration (in the case of shield resistances) Holy shit. I've NEVER thought of that. Wow. BOOOST GALLENTE!! or active tanking idk but seriously. ><
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.09.06 03:20:00 - [37] Originally by: Azuse Because those stats don't take into account eh hulk mass of the bloody ship. A mwd mega will outrun an astarte, f*** a harb with 1600mm plate move faster (and btw kills the astarte since it cant web the harb). I struggle to see how a mwd mega wld be faster than a mwd astarte, i dont know personally but ive never known a bs to outrun its bc counterpart in its own faction.. Cld you chuck me some figures? Plz dont pimp the mega with speed and give the astarte like one mwd plz :P, make it a fair contest.. Proudly annoying FC's since 2007 Remove m for manditory in mwd!
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.09.06 03:57:00 - [38] Originally by: Kuzya Morozov stuff An FC will prefer you in his roaming gang simply becasue a bs is slow to align etc. If your fitting trimarks then you may aswell fly a mega as your losing one of its precious few advantages, fit ccc's hell fit hybrid rigs, just not trimarks. You hld be able to tank ok plus the extra cap is golden. Also speed is a huge issue as post nerf, the speed dif between the mega and astarte not to mention the web changes will make it much harder for a mega not only to get in range, but to stay there. For ecm the gain from being more agile etc outwieghs the loss of 3 sensor strength for a roaming gang, for large fleets yes, a mega will be better, but a roaming gangs main priority is hit n run tactics and being continually on the move, not sensor strentgh (if your that worried, you cld ty fit eccm, not sure if youll be gimped too much tho). As for the heavy neut thing, the same reasos go for that as for ecm, making mega better for large fleets but astarte still prefered for roams. As far as scan res goes, its very important, I never said anything about tackling, its so that you can deal damage ealier on in the fight, if you dont think thats important, well..good luck.. Lastly i never said an astarte was cost effective, simply that its better than a BS in a roaming performance situation, if you want cost effectiveness in a roam, just use a brutix over either a mega or an astarte. P.S. plz dont use wall of text = hard to read Proudly annoying FC's since 2007 Remove m for manditory in mwd!
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.09.06 04:09:00 - [39] Originally by: BiggestT For ecm the gain from being more agile etc outwieghs the loss of 3 sensor strength for a roaming gang, for large fleets yes, a mega will be better, but a roaming gangs main priority is hit n run tactics and being continually on the move, not sensor strentgh (if your that worried, you cld ty fit eccm, not sure if youll be gimped too much tho). If you're talking about gangs of any size over 4-5 people maximum, a Harbringer does it better, and I won't even mention the Absolution (which is better for everything except maybe solo), and I wasn't even talking about cost-effectiveness either. Reason? Astarte has to MWD up to the face of all the targets. Doing (very good, too!) DPS at range > doing somewhat more DPS up close. At any rate, there is nothing wrong with armour rigging for moving around - agility is still there, and your ship isn't made out of paper. If speed is what you want, you'd be flying a Sleipnir anyway, because it's preety much the only CS which can get some speed, and that is going to change. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Mr Ignitious Gallente R.E.C.O.N.	Posted - 2008.09.06 06:20:00 - [40] Originally by: BiggestT An FC will prefer you in his roaming gang simply becasue a bs is slow to align etc. If your fitting trimarks then you may aswell fly a mega as your losing one of its precious few advantages, fit ccc's hell fit hybrid rigs, just not trimarks. Trimarks dont affect agility, thats plates. Armor rigs affect SPEED, but not mass nor any other stat, so trimarks would be fine, or aux nanos, or expl rig, or nanobot etc, but fitting plates would increase your mass = shittier agility.
slothe Caldari Murky Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.06 07:38:00 - [41] i think the answer is this- for pve the astarte is ok, but can be outclassed by cheaper ships, or ships like bs where you get the majority of insured value back. for pvp- in the context of the current nano fad, the astarte is not a great roaming 0.0 ship and serves no purpose in a fleet. for lowsec / empire pvp (gate camps etc) its ok, but as said the bs class is miles better and cheaper. -theres no role it fulfills that another ship of the same race cant do better.
venus divine	Posted - 2008.09.06 09:58:00 - [42] ofc there is a role for astarte in nano engagements. just fit railguns with a tracking computer. U can tank ALOT while have range of 60km with awesome tracking and alot of dps..and u only need one interceptor to web the target no matter where it nanoes around..
Gamesguy Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.09.06 13:32:00 - [43] Originally by: BiggestT An FC will prefer you in his roaming gang simply becasue a bs is slow to align etc. If your fitting trimarks then you may aswell fly a mega as your losing one of its precious few advantages, fit ccc's hell fit hybrid rigs, just not trimarks. You hld be able to tank ok plus the extra cap is golden. Also speed is a huge issue as post nerf, the speed dif between the mega and astarte not to mention the web changes will make it much harder for a mega not only to get in range, but to stay there. Wrong. Astarte is slower than a mega currently, thats without any rigs, post nano nerf it will be slightly faster, but again, I can fit a mega to be faster/more agile while still maintaining superior tank/dps. Quote: For ecm the gain from being more agile etc outwieghs the loss of 3 sensor strength for a roaming gang, for large fleets yes, a mega will be better, but a roaming gangs main priority is hit n run tactics and being continually on the move, not sensor strentgh (if your that worried, you cld ty fit eccm, not sure if youll be gimped too much tho). Wrong. A mega can align and warp in 10 seconds. All bs with a mwd can do this, astarte aligns slower than this, so the two ships basically travel at the same speed. Astarte is not suited to any sort of a "hit and run tactics" gang, period. If an astarte is sufficiently fast for a gang, so is a mega. Quote: As for the heavy neut thing, the same reasos go for that as for ecm, making mega better for large fleets but astarte still prefered for roams. What? Have you actually pvped? Heavy neuts are far more powerful in smaller engagements where the neut can shutdown tacklers and local tanks. In larger gangs focus fire will vaporize any local tank anyways so neuts dont matter nearly as much. You got it almost exactly flipped. Heavy neuts are very powerful in small gangs, in large gangs it doesnt matter as much. Same with your ECM argument, you're wrong again. In small gangs a falcon is devastating, it can shut down half your gang easilly. In larger gangs its not nearly as powerful as focus fire can again kill it. Larger gangs also have a much higher chance of packing specialized counters to ECM. Quote: As far as scan res goes, its very important, I never said anything about tackling, its so that you can deal damage ealier on in the fight, if you dont think thats important, well..good luck.. Ya because that 2 second earlier lock on a BS is really important! Even with the lock advantage the mega will have a higher dps and alpha. You're not playing with **ing sniper fleets where you spend as much time lock as you do actually shooting here. You're talking about small gangs, in small gangs sensor boosters on non-tackling ships is a ridiculous luxury that you can't afford. Each sensor booster could've gone towards an ECCM, or ewar. Quote:** Lastly i never said an astarte was cost effective, simply that its better than a BS in a roaming performance situation, if you want cost effectiveness in a roam, just use a brutix over either a mega or an astarte. P.S. plz dont use wall of text = hard to read Except the astarte is not superior to the mega in a roaming gang. Basically your entire argument is wrong. You got simple shit like heavy neut/ECM's effectiveness in large vs small gangs backwards. It makes me wonder if you actually pvp.
Nikea Tiber Noir. Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.06 15:05:00 - [44] Its been said before, but it is worth saying again. The mega can do everything better. The speed difference is negligible before you consider optimal+falloff ranges. Once you consider optimal+falloff between med and heavy turrets the mega effectively becomes faster as it can apply DPS without having to move around as much. With the astarte you pretty much have to physically crash into your target to make sure you are in optimal. The tracking advantage the astarte has over the mega is a moot point. If your target is fast enough to evade heavy guns, it is fast enough to evade your mediums because you will never get it into optimal or probably even optimal+falloff (unless said target is being piloted by a ******ed chimp... given the forum whiners, that is entirely possible, but that is another rant entirely). The last matter is insurance. If you lose a fully insured mega you aren't really out that much isk. If you loose a fully insured astarte you will wonder why the hell you even insured it. I guess this doesn't matter if you are purchasing the ship as a hangar ornament. ___________________ Eventually, we all get outgunned or outnumbered.
Captator Universal Securities	Posted - 2008.09.06 15:35:00 - [45] Originally by: Gamesguy Except the astarte is not superior to the mega in a roaming gang. Basically your entire argument is wrong. You got simple shit like heavy neut/ECM's effectiveness in large vs small gangs backwards. It makes me wonder if you actually pvp. This ^
Mag's MASS	Posted - 2008.09.06 15:53:00 - [46] As it stands, the nano nerf won't help the Astarte as a blaster boat either. It will still be too slow and nothing but eye candy, what with the web/scram/mwd combo nerf. Mag's Originally by: Avernus One of these days, the realization that MASS is no longer significant will catch up with you.
Eternum Praetorian Tupperware Party	Posted - 2008.09.06 17:33:00 - [47] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 06/09/2008 17:33:59 last night I just said the hell with it and made fittings for just about every BC size vessel in EVE. What I found was a bit surprising to me . . . The Harbinger Stood out as a pretty awesome ship even amongst the CS. Sure the tank wasn't that great (like the absolution), but the DPS was pretty awesome at the end of the day. Actually come to think of it I forgot to compare its DSP to Zealot (hmm... have to do it later) but I am pretty sure it was considerably more. All that being said, I guess I am starting to gather what is being said here. The Astarte was the hardest to fit, and as for CS (or even BC's) go, in general, it wasn't the most out standing of them. However . . . the Nano/mass/web nerf is coming (probably sooner rather then later) and I have a very hard time seeing how a BS will be better then a HAC or BC size vessel after that for solo and small gangs. I think . . . Interceptors will have there role back, Hac's will be the mainstay and BC/CS will become the best options for power in small roams and pvp. I suspect that BS will be the big time damage dealer that will be relatively easy to avoid. I also could be wrong . . . and I admit that. So we will see . . .
Kuzya Morozov Gallente L8L8L8	Posted - 2008.09.06 19:54:00 - [48] Originally by: Gamesguy It makes me wonder if you actually pvp. Thank you for writing that of that for me, now I don't have to tell him how clueless he is :)
Alarios	Posted - 2008.09.13 09:44:00 - [49] Edited by: Alarios on 13/09/2008 09:44:57 Edited by: Alarios on 13/09/2008 09:44:31 Skill the astarte Eternum if you like the ship. I think most of these guys here always are flying in big groups. For Solo pvp... i am always using my astarte, not the mega. Why? 3 simple reasons. 1. The much better locktime.. most important!!! 2. medium weapons 3. Style The Mega can do everything better... thats not true.
Rawr Cristina Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2008.09.13 11:02:00 - [50] Current Astarte is very situational IMO. When it works, it works great. It just isn't very good solo since it's far too slow, and too vulnerable to both Neuts and Nanos. (anything faster than it, in fact). In larger gangs it's also pretty worthless since it'l never get in range of most targets in time and if it's called primary, it dosen't have a whole lot of armour so can vanish pretty quickly. It's still a nice ship though. - Infectious -
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.09.13 11:04:00 - [51] Edited by: BiggestT on 13/09/2008 11:05:40 Originally by: Kuzya Morozov Originally by: Gamesguy It makes me wonder if you actually pvp. Thank you for writing that of that for me, now I don't have to tell him how clueless he is :) Enjoy ur mega when the fc rejects you whenever you want to take a bs roaming in a small hit/run gang farewell edit:typo Eve tax back!
Christina Bamar Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.09.13 17:18:00 - [52] Edited by: Christina Bamar on 13/09/2008 17:19:02 Originally by: BiggestT Edited by: BiggestT on 13/09/2008 11:40:14 Edited by: BiggestT on 13/09/2008 11:05:40 Originally by: Kuzya Morozov Originally by: Gamesguy It makes me wonder if you actually pvp. Thank you for writing that of that for me, now I don't have to tell him how clueless he is :) Enjoy ur mega when the fc rejects you whenever you want to take a bs roaming in a small hit/run gang farewell edit2: Oops just read games post, i really have no idea why i said neuting is more of an issue in larger gangs, i cant think of a single reason why (-puts the bong away-). edit:typo If your FC is not intelligent enough to realize that an Astarte is no faster than a Megathron in a roaming gang then it might be time to find a new FC. Seriously, I actually am an FC and what has been said is completely correct, the Astarte is not any faster than a Mega and is not a better choice in a roaming gang. Really if you're talking about a fast roaming gang then the Astarte is too slow anyway, so I really don't see what your point is.
murder one Gallente Invincible Reason	Posted - 2008.09.13 19:01:00 - [53] Why the Astarte is crap: By the time you fit it out with armor rigs and run it with a single rep and a plate and some Neutron IIs (you do have max fitting skills right? right?) and a few faction bits here and there to make it all fit you could have built an T2 Ion Hype with more tank, more static HP, more DPS and nearly the same lock time and top speed and agility as an Astarte for less cost. Additionally, large blasters get a lot more range/falloff than mediums do. With mediums you're literally point blank before you're doing any real DPS- like 1-1.5km. At least with BS sized guns you can hit at 6-7km reasonably well, although talking about 6-7km like it's good range-wise is a bad joke. Due to the DPS nerfs, HP increases and the massive speed penalties of armor tanking rigs the Astarte ends up being a fat pig with no range and half the HP and tank of a Hype for twice the cost. [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 Fleet Combat Ships
murder one Gallente Invincible Reason	Posted - 2008.09.13 19:07:00 - [54] Originally by: Alarios Edited by: Alarios on 13/09/2008 09:44:57 Edited by: Alarios on 13/09/2008 09:44:31 Skill the astarte Eternum if you like the ship. I think most of these guys here always are flying in big groups. For Solo pvp... i am always using my astarte, not the mega. Why? 3 simple reasons. 1. The much better locktime.. most important!!! 2. medium weapons 3. Style The Mega can do everything better... thats not true. Use a Hype with a sensor booster. The difference between the Hype with a SB and the Astarte lock-time wise is negligible. Astartes can catch BCs and up, but can't lock cruisers in time before they warp. A Hype with a SB can do the same. In order for BCs to be better than BS, they'd need to be able to lock/catch cruisers before they can align/warp, which they can't. The Eos USED to be a cool ship with it's BC sized hull and 5th mid for a sensor booster but CCP made sure they ruined that one. [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 Fleet Combat Ships
Cornette Gallente Black Screen of Death HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.09.13 19:10:00 - [55] Maybe theAstarte will fare much better after the upcomming nano- and web-nerf?

Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.