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Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 01:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
Let players consume 30 Day PLEX to instantly recieve 30 days of skill points to distribute as they wish.
P.S. Screw the character bazaar, I don't want some ugly dude with a stupid name that someone else made. |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
1087
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 02:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
lol |
Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Tribal Conclave
84
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Posted - 2012.03.26 02:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
Closed topic. |
Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
420
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 05:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
i too, want rich players to have every skill at lvl 5. |
Herold Oldtimer
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
47
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Posted - 2012.03.26 10:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
Herping yourDerp wrote:i too, want rich players to have every skill at lvl 5.
And have the character locked to the account, so they can't sell it. |
Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 13:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
Herping yourDerp wrote:i too, want rich players to have every skill at lvl 5.
They can do that already by buying from character bazaar. Though maybe some people want to upgrade chars at their own rate or stick with one they like.
EVE is an economy game anyways. Not a timer waiting game. It would make sense to allow people to turn isk into skills. |
Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 14:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:Herping yourDerp wrote:i too, want rich players to have every skill at lvl 5. They can do that already by buying from character bazaar. Though maybe some people want to upgrade chars at their own rate or stick with one they like. EVE is an economy game anyways. Not a timer waiting game. It would make sense to allow people to turn isk into skills.
considering all the timers built into the game and all the time spent waiting for things to happen... what?
though id be cool with this if the character was locked to the account (for the time duration) , and that account didn't get to train anything for the next 30 days. sort of a fast forward with cooldown.
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Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 14:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
Kusum Fawn wrote:Aranakas wrote:Herping yourDerp wrote:i too, want rich players to have every skill at lvl 5. They can do that already by buying from character bazaar. Though maybe some people want to upgrade chars at their own rate or stick with one they like. EVE is an economy game anyways. Not a timer waiting game. It would make sense to allow people to turn isk into skills. considering all the timers built into the game and all the time spent waiting for things to happen... what? though id be cool with this if the character was locked to the account (for the time duration) , and that account didn't get to train anything for the next 30 days. sort of a fast forward with cooldown.
Pointless. Isk->Skills or nothing, since THE CHARACTER BAZAAR ALREADY ALLOWS THIS without any penalties other than aesthetic ones.
The 500mil isk spent on the plex would already be converted to skills anyways, you're just making it move faster. Is it fairer than the current system where newer characters CAN NEVER catch up to older characters by skilling at the same rate or slower? HELL YES.
Plus some of us just don't want to wait a perfectly good month of their life before they can fly a ship. You could always buy a $1 egg timer and flip it up and down for fun if that's amusing. |
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
130
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 15:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
Aranakas wrote: Plus some of us just don't want to wait a perfectly good month of their life before they can fly a ship. You could always buy a $1 egg timer and flip it up and down for fun if that's amusing.
WAAAAA, I want it NOW MUUUUUUM! MAKE THEM GIVE IT TO MEEEEEEEE! The other boys have it and I want it toooooo!
Seriously, I'm not sure how simple I can make this, especially for the ADD kiddies out there.....
Stick with me here OP, I know you are probably already wandering off because you cant concentrate on something for more than 2 mins......
Buying Skill Points with $$$ or PLEX will KILL EVE.
Thats it, CCP knows it, most of the players know it. Deal with it, or go buy a level 100 Paladin in WOW.
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 16:05:00 -
[10] - Quote
Jint Hikaru wrote:Aranakas wrote: Plus some of us just don't want to wait a perfectly good month of their life before they can fly a ship. You could always buy a $1 egg timer and flip it up and down for fun if that's amusing.
WAAAAA, I want it NOW MUUUUUUM! MAKE THEM GIVE IT TO MEEEEEEEE! The other boys have it and I want it toooooo! Seriously, I'm not sure how simple I can make this, especially for the ADD kiddies out there..... Stick with me here OP, I know you are probably already wandering off because you cant concentrate on something for more than 2 mins...... Buying Skill Points with $$$ or PLEX will KILL EVE.Thats it, CCP knows it, most of the players know it. Deal with it, or go buy a level 100 Paladin in WOW.
If anything, NOT being able to catch up to older players on your own character will KILL EVE.
You know why people leave? Because they have to wait months to do anything in this game and can never catch up in skill points to older players. That's why I left the first time. That's why my friends refuse to play.
Also, I am blocking you for being hostile and a moron because as I said at least twice YOU CAN ALREADY USE THE CHARACTER BAZAAR. |
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mxzf
Shovel Bros
1098
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 16:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:If anything, NOT being able to catch up to older players on your own character will KILL EVE. It hasn't killed Eve over the last nine years, I don't see why it would start being an issue now. You simply don't understand that raw SP doesn't mean squat.
Aranakas wrote:You know why people leave? Because they have to wait months to do anything in this game and can never catch up in skill points to older players. That's why I left the first time. That's why my friends refuse to play. No, people leave because they're whiny brats who feel everything should be handed to them on a silver platter and who are afraid to go out and actually do something without knowing for sure that they're completely safe and can't lose. |
Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
7
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 16:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
mxzf wrote:Aranakas wrote:If anything, NOT being able to catch up to older players on your own character will KILL EVE. It hasn't killed Eve over the last nine years, I don't see why it would start being an issue now. You simply don't understand that raw SP doesn't mean squat. Aranakas wrote:You know why people leave? Because they have to wait months to do anything in this game and can never catch up in skill points to older players. That's why I left the first time. That's why my friends refuse to play. No, people leave because they're whiny brats who feel everything should be handed to them on a silver platter and who are afraid to go out and actually do something without knowing for sure that they're completely safe and can't lose.
YOU CAN ALREADY PLEX YOURSELF ISK AND YOU CAN ALREADY USE ISK TO BUY CHARACTERS IN THE BAZAAR.
And EVE subscription rates are not picking up. Most players who play are veterans, surprise surprise. New players don't want to join because they are forever at a disadvantage. And if sp doesn't mean squat why does it exist? |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
1098
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 16:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
You don't use ISK to buy SP though, ever. You use ISK to pay another player to buy gametime for you, or you use ISK to pay another player to spend months training a character for you, but you never use ISK to buy SP. There's a large difference there.
And Eve's subscriber numbers are steadily growing (and not just vets making more alts, I know many new players too). And SP does mean something, it means versatility. Raw SP means squat though, a player with 200M SP can actually be LESS effective than a player with 2M SP but all dedicated towards a specific ship/playstyle. SP doesn't let you do things infinitely better as it grows, it just lets you do more different stuff. You have a fundamentally flawed perception of Eve's skill system. |
Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
7
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 16:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
Okay, well I plan on using some of this "versatility" to give myself the ability to fly a pirate ship at 100% effectiveness. Maybe I'll be less effective at assault frigates or something. That's a risk I'm willing to take.
I could go over to the character bazaar right now and "pay someone to train a character to fly pirate battleships" but I like the characters I have. I don't want someone else's character. Why not just go over to the market right now and "pay CCP to train the character I made to fly pirate battleships".
Either way, it's what like 2 mil sp a month? I'd have to spend some 200 dollars for just 20 mil sp if I were plexing. That's still a LOT of money and a lot less efficient than character bazaar anyways.
Why do I want to do it? Because I don't want someone else's character.
P.S. I don't want to plex it though, I want to use my in-game savings. |
Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
7
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 16:52:00 -
[15] - Quote
Explain to me this:
How can a new character EVER catch up in SP to an older character who is training at the same rate?
Why is it fair that it is impossible? |
Nix Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 17:18:00 -
[16] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:Explain to me this:
How can a new character EVER catch up in SP to an older character who is training at the same rate?
Why is it fair that it is impossible?
And yes, things like maxxed out support skills do make a difference, no matter what nonsense you come up with that it's not.
Only if you explain this: Why should a new player be able to instantly buy their way up to match a player who has already invested years into the game??? How is that fair on the older player? |
Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
7
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 17:19:00 -
[17] - Quote
Nix Hikaru wrote:Aranakas wrote:Explain to me this:
How can a new character EVER catch up in SP to an older character who is training at the same rate?
Why is it fair that it is impossible?
And yes, things like maxxed out support skills do make a difference, no matter what nonsense you come up with that it's not. Only if you explain this: Why should a new player be able to instantly buy their way up to match a player who has already invested years into the game??? How is that fair on the older player?
The older player doesn't have to spend any money... He got to enjoy eve during that time.... He should have built up a bigger wallet by now and take advantage of the same system...
etc.
Damn that was your big stumper? It was pretty easy. |
Nix Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 17:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
Aranakas wrote: The older player doesn't have to spend any money... He got to enjoy eve during that time....
And you will get to enjoy Eve in the time your skills naturally increase....
EveryoneGÇÖs a winner,
no need to buy skills.
|
Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
8
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 17:59:00 -
[19] - Quote
Nix Hikaru wrote:Aranakas wrote: The older player doesn't have to spend any money... He got to enjoy eve during that time....
And you will get to enjoy Eve in the time your skills naturally increase.... EveryoneGÇÖs a winner, no need to buy skills.
I'd enjoy it more, as would almost all new players. We buy skills, everyone's a winner.
Skills need to be buyable.
And there is a difference levelling up now and then. Then, everyone was low skilled. Now, there is a gap. |
Nix Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 18:03:00 -
[20] - Quote
I think I'm going to bow out of this thread.
OP is never going to understand that Eve is about the journey and what you choose to do in the game. Not about endgame and having all the skills and being OMGROXOR in a SuperStarDestroyer!!!!!!
Feel free to keep posting this idea OP.
I stand by what I said on my main.... The majority of players and CCP know that instant buying skills will kill Eve.
Fly safe! |
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Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
10
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 18:04:00 -
[21] - Quote
Nix Hikaru wrote:I think I'm going to bow out of this thread.
OP is never going to understand that Eve is about the journy and what you choose to make it. Not about endgame and having all the skills and being OMGROXOR in a SuperStarDestroyer!!!!!!
Feel free to keep posting this idea OP.
I stand by what I said on my main.... The majority of players and CCP know that instant buying skills will kill Eve.
Fly safe!
If skills aren't important and eve is about the journey
WHY DO SKILLS EXIST?!?
Skills obviously have some relevance. All I want is to not be at a disadvantage because I oh so unfortuitously chose to join EVE later rather than sooner.
And if buying skills will kill EVE, eve is already dead because of the Character Bazaar. |
Feligast
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1187
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 18:24:00 -
[22] - Quote
Same idiotic suggestion, same bullshit argument feverishly attempting to support it.
The skill system is fine the way it is. Comparing PLEXing for raw SP and buying characters is sophistry at its worst and you know it. |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
74
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 18:36:00 -
[23] - Quote
After umpteen iterations through this argument, I still haven't heard anybody against it give a clear argument as to what it actually breaks.
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Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
13
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 19:38:00 -
[24] - Quote
Buzzy Warstl wrote:After umpteen iterations through this argument, I still haven't heard anybody against it give a clear argument as to what it actually breaks.
|
Vigilant Archer
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 20:09:00 -
[25] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:Nix Hikaru wrote:I think I'm going to bow out of this thread.
OP is never going to understand that Eve is about the journy and what you choose to make it. Not about endgame and having all the skills and being OMGROXOR in a SuperStarDestroyer!!!!!!
Feel free to keep posting this idea OP.
I stand by what I said on my main.... The majority of players and CCP know that instant buying skills will kill Eve.
Fly safe! If skills aren't important and eve is about the journey WHY DO SKILLS EXIST?!? Skills obviously have some relevance. All I want is to not be at a disadvantage because I oh so unfortuitously chose to join EVE later rather than sooner. And if buying skills will kill EVE, eve is already dead because of the Character Bazaar.
OK One EVE is about the journey and skills are part of the journey in fact it's a large part of the journey.
two, you won't necessarily be at a disadvantage to older players, 3 month players can and do compete with 5 year players and they do succeed I have seen it myself.
buying a character on the character bazaar is not unfair because somebody somewhere still has to put the time in to train that character, it's not just created out of nowhere and given to you. Plex for sp creates sp out of nowhere, with no disadvantage to you other than you just lost a plex. And if the character you want is not on the character bazaar you're out of luck. |
Vigilant Archer
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 20:13:00 -
[26] - Quote
It's not the destination that matters it's the journey. The same can be said about life. We're all on a journey that ends in our death. We know our destination we don't know how we will get there we just know that we will someday. It's the good experiences and the bad experiences, the friends we make and the enemies we create, what we accomplish, what we fail to accomplish, the love that we make and the love that we lose, the good that we do and the bad that we do, the interesting people we meet, our hopes and our fears, our wishes, our longings, the times that we laugh in joy and the times that we cry in despair, those are what make life worth living. At the end of our life when our sun is about to set, when we look back on our life before we die it is if we smile in joy our cringe in regret that determines if we lead a good life, not our death. When we die our bodies decay into dust, those who remember us also eventually die, and sooner or later we are all forgotten by history, nobody to remember what we have accomplished, when our sun is about to set if we ourselves can't look back on our life and smile then we have not lived life to the fullest, I wouldn't have it any other way. Besides who knows death may just be the beginning of an exciting new adventure just as the sun that sets will eventually rise again and repeat it's journey across the sky once again. |
Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
15
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 20:17:00 -
[27] - Quote
You can create a character out of nowhere anyways. Create a character, poof there's a character. Does it matter whether someone had him sitting in a hangar for a year or not?
Why am I out of luck? Why does it have to be this way? What if I don't WANT another character because I have this one and I put so much effort into it already.
P.S. Losing PLEX is a disadvantage. You get the same skills you would have gotten by waiting, but you don't get the game time. |
Vigilant Archer
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 20:25:00 -
[28] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:Vigilant Archer wrote:Aranakas wrote:Nix Hikaru wrote:I think I'm going to bow out of this thread.
OP is never going to understand that Eve is about the journy and what you choose to make it. Not about endgame and having all the skills and being OMGROXOR in a SuperStarDestroyer!!!!!!
Feel free to keep posting this idea OP.
I stand by what I said on my main.... The majority of players and CCP know that instant buying skills will kill Eve.
Fly safe! If skills aren't important and eve is about the journey WHY DO SKILLS EXIST?!? Skills obviously have some relevance. All I want is to not be at a disadvantage because I oh so unfortuitously chose to join EVE later rather than sooner. And if buying skills will kill EVE, eve is already dead because of the Character Bazaar. OK One EVE is about the journey and skills are part of the journey in fact it's a large part of the journey. two, you won't necessarily be at a disadvantage to older players, 3 month players can and do compete with 5 year players and they do succeed I have seen it myself. buying a character on the character bazaar is not unfair because somebody somewhere still has to put the time in to train that character, it's not just created out of nowhere and given to you. Plex for sp creates sp out of nowhere, with no disadvantage to you other than you just lost a plex. And if the character you want is not on the character bazaar you're out of luck. You can create a character out of nowhere anyways. Create a character, poof there's a character. Does it matter whether someone had him sitting in a hangar for a year or not? Why am I out of luck? Why does it have to be this way? What if I don't WANT another character because I have this one and I put so much effort into it already.
sure you can create a character out of nowhere, but it won't have maxed out skills as it should be.
If you don't want another character because you have spent so much time on your current one then continue to invest time into that character.
Plus If you want to keep your current character because you have put so much time into it, you want to keep it because you have INVESTED TIME INTO IT, which is what happens with skills currently. if you just buy sp for skills using plex you have just killed a large portion of the time invested into your character thereby destroying it's importance to you. Your character is important to you because you have spent so much time training it's skills all the standings it has take a minimal amount of time to regain, and you can always get the isk with plex. |
Vigilant Archer
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 20:39:00 -
[29] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:You can create a character out of nowhere anyways. Create a character, poof there's a character. Does it matter whether someone had him sitting in a hangar for a year or not?
Why am I out of luck? Why does it have to be this way? What if I don't WANT another character because I have this one and I put so much effort into it already.
P.S. Losing PLEX is a disadvantage. You get the same skills you would have gotten by waiting, but you don't get the game time.
One: I did say that plex is a disadvantage
two: people would buy plex solely for the sp not for the game time just as players do so now for isk,
And yes I did catch your edit. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
373
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 22:01:00 -
[30] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:Let players consume 30 Day PLEX to instantly recieve 30 days of skill points to distribute as they wish.
P.S. Screw the character bazaar, I don't want some ugly dude with a stupid name that someone else made. OP: Make us richer and happier.
Give us all your isk and biomass your toon. -áhttp://i.imgur.com/aWNfM.jpg |
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Tarn Kugisa
Space Mongolian Pinked
46
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 23:36:00 -
[31] - Quote
Nix Hikaru wrote:I think I'm going to bow out of this thread.
OP is never going to understand that Eve is about the journey and what you choose to do in the game. Not about endgame and having all the skills and being OMGROXOR in a SuperStarDestroyer!!!!!!
Feel free to keep posting this idea OP.
I stand by what I said on my main.... The majority of players and CCP know that instant buying skills will kill Eve.
Fly safe!
I still like Frigs over Capitals Real Caldari Hull Tank (And Win doing so) Support https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16580 |
Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
20
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 23:57:00 -
[32] - Quote
Skills don't make me like my character. Standings do for a small degree because you actually work for those. What makes me connected is REAL standings. Contacts, friends, corpmates and enemies. The name people know me by, etc. Nonetheless, I want more skillpoints because it allows me to compete with other players on a level playing field. Not even an advantage. An equality.
What would be wrong with people buying plex solely for sp? People do that now anyways. They buy plex, and don't even play the character for a month while it trains if they have other things to do.
This would in no way break the game. If anything, it would balance the game because it would provide a money-sink for rich characters and would allow new players to catch up with veterans and never be forever behind, which is a serious balance issue. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
496
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 01:10:00 -
[33] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:If anything, NOT being able to catch up to older players on your own character will KILL EVE. This is patently false. The current skill system makes it so that you CAN "catch up" to an older player, one specialty at a time.
Here's how it works:
- All skills cap at level 5. No matter how many years you have played the game, you cannot exceed that limit.
- Only a limited number of skills affect any one ship, module, weapon system, and specialty at any given time. Ex1: Someone you are facing has about 20 million SP, but how much of that overall SP is actually combat related. He/she could be a HUGE industrial player that just wants to blow off some steam. Ex2: You have suberb gunnery support skills and have a fair bit trained into projectile weapons. However, today you want to use lasers. You fit some to your ships and go out to shoot some stuff... however you notice that despite placing excellent hits on the target(s), you are not dealing much damage. This is because your gunnery support skills, which allow you hit stuff better, are being applied... but without training up the skill specific to lasers your damage will be anemic.
- Getting a skill to level 5 from level 4 only adds on an extra 2% here, 5% there. If you simply train up all the skills within a specialty and defer getting them to level 5 until you have/want to, you will still find yourself flying at about 80 to 90% of the effectiveness of a multi-year veteran in that specific specialty.
- Getting a skill to level 5 is supposed to be a painful train. Many players (yes, even veteran ones) opt to avoid doing it and instead train up other skills to level 4.
- Ships and weapons have been balanced against one another. Ex: A battleship can potentially instapop a frigate... but the frigate can fly very fast, making it difficult for the battleship's weapons to track, especially at very close range... then again, the battleship can deploy drones to deal with the frigate... and the frigate can shoot the drones down... however the battleship might have a Large Energy Neutralizer fitted to nuke the frigate's capacitor every 24 second... in which case the frigate could use a Small Nosferatu that sucks out capacitor every 3 seconds... etc. etc.
Aranakas wrote:You know why people leave? Because they have to wait months to do anything in this game and can never catch up in skill points to older players. That's why I left the first time. That's why my friends refuse to play. Tell your friends to strap themselves in a frigate, go out, and DO something. You don't need "the best" skills to complete. Tech 1 ships are not "horribly underpowered" compared to Tech 2 ships. And it IS possible for a pack of week old characters in frigates to tear apart a multi-year pilot in a battleship.
Aranakas wrote:YOU CAN ALREADY USE THE CHARACTER BAZAAR. The character and its value are not created out of "thin air" as your proposal does. In the current system, another player had spend a great deal of time setting the skills and speccing the character until it is "just right." After that, the ISK you spend for it is shifted. "Just because I seem like an idiot, doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |
Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
25
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 01:15:00 -
[34] - Quote
-So your idea of an equal race is one where one runner can only ever hope to catch up with another after the race is already over? Does that sound balanced?
-The 5% here and here adds up.
-If I had an assload of skillpoints, no matter what they were in, I'd make use of them. I am well aware that industry pilots might not be the best combat pilots, but they're still good industry pilots aren't they?
-Barely anyone spends time "tweaking and lovingly nurturing" the characters you see on the bazaar. At least half of them were expressly created to be sold. If you just do it yourself or plex it yourself what's the difference? |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
498
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 01:26:00 -
[35] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:-So your idea of an equal race is one where one runner can only ever hope to catch up with another after the race is already over? Does that sound balanced?
Please rephrase this as I am having trouble understanding.
What I can gather is that you're seeing things from a "directly confrontational" viewpoint. In any PvP engagement, you'll be lucky if this is the case. Often, people will employ Ewar and/or tactics to compensate for any weaknesses in skills they may or may not have. Having "friends" also helps in this regard to.
edit: oh... now I get it. Yeah... there is no "race" here. There is no "endgame" per se in EVE at all. Someone did some math and calculated that it would take 27 years to get all the skills in EVE to level 5. I will also repeat the point I made in my last post: all skills cap at 5. You cannot go any higher. No matter how old you are. This limits the power of older players and allows younger ones to "catch up"... again... one specialty at a time.
Aranakas wrote:-The 5% here and here adds up. (I get the feeling that you didn't read my post in its entirety)
Up to a point. Again, only so many skills affect so many things. You can have the skill Large Energy Turret at level 5 and it won't make your frigate's laser turrets operate any better.
Aranakas wrote:-If I had an assload of skillpoints, no matter what they were in, I'd make use of them. I am well aware that industry pilots might not be the best combat pilots, but they're still good industry pilots aren't they? See above. You can only apply so many skillpoints in any one activity you are engaging in.
Beyond that, you are at the mercy of "Industry pilots" when buying a new ship and its mods. Likewise, out in space you at the mercy of PvP/combat pilots.
Aranakas wrote:-Barely anyone spends time "tweaking and lovingly nurturing" the characters you see on the bazaar. At least half of them were expressly created to be sold. If you just do it yourself or plex it yourself what's the difference? They were created and effort (however little) was spent on them. Nothing about them or their stats were created out of "thin air." "Just because I seem like an idiot, doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |
LOL56
Galactic Express Intrepid Crossing
11
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 01:29:00 -
[36] - Quote
The way the skill system works, you can easy catch up. take for example Recon ships. i would consider myself a fairly accomplished pilot in a recon ship. in order to be able to fly them as well as i do i trained several months of support skills and a Ilittle over a month on Recon 5. If you want to fly a recon ship as well as me, you can. It wont even take more than 6 months or so, and then only if you want to highly specialize in recons. Since there is no secrete 100m SP only Recon 6 club, you are now 'cough up' to me and are on an even footing.
At that point, my only advantage is I can also fly a mining barge, or a carrier, or use a POSes guns and labs, none of which will make me any better at flying a Recon. |
Astroniomix
EliteTroll
16
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 02:31:00 -
[37] - Quote
The biggest flaw in your plan is that the vets you are trying to catch up to will simply buy plex and add sp as well. So you will be stuck where you were before you started dumping money into your head to fix your problems. |
Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
27
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 03:16:00 -
[38] - Quote
I'm tired of trying to explain why a player would want high skills. I'm not going to respond anymore to people trying to tell me how much fun I can have if I spend a year specializing in something and doing positively nothing else but this one area of specialization so that I can, in some way, be equal to a veteran.
Astroniomix wrote:The biggest flaw in your plan is that the vets you are trying to catch up to will simply buy plex and add sp as well. So you will be stuck where you were before you started dumping money into your head to fix your problems.
Hell, at least I'd be able to do something with my game-time and money. Right now, I can only fly a few ships, crappily, but I have assloads of money from playing often and trading.
Plus, this gives me a chance to catch up. A CHANCE. If I try and lose to win the isk race, I'll be fine with that. Losing the "who signed up first race" just makes me see this game as pointless. |
Kristoffon Ellecon
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
29
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 03:19:00 -
[39] - Quote
While I personally would like such a mechanic it'll never happen because it'll cause players to get bored quickly and CCP would lose subscriptions instead of keeping us reaching out for that carrot just in front of us. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
500
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 03:49:00 -
[40] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:I'm tired of trying to explain why a player would want high skills. I'm not going to respond anymore to people trying to tell me how much fun I can have if I spend a year specializing in something and doing positively nothing else but this one area of specialization so that I can, in some way, be equal to a veteran. Two things:
1. It takes three months to "specialize" in frigates. Four to six months for cruisers. However, if you have good interpersonal skills you can team up with others, train for many different things, and use numbers to compensate for your lacking skills (say what you want about them, but Goonswarm proved that this was possible).
2. You appear to be stuck in the mindset of "if it isn't 'the best' it isn't worth flying." This is a self-defeating attitude as it will forever trap you in station because you assume that everyone is better than you (hint: they aren't).
Personal story: I have flown Vexors for as long as I have played the game. I have quite a few in my hanger right now. And I don't fly them because I lack ISK or skills but because they are actually GOOD. A Vexor can rip apart almost all frigates (Tech 2 or otherwise) and even some Tech 2 cruisers (if I play my cards right). If I have a buddy in another Vexor (or a Rupture) I will not hesitate in taking on a battlecruiser or even a battleship. "Just because I seem like an idiot, doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |
|
Astroniomix
EliteTroll
18
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 04:03:00 -
[41] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:I'm tired of trying to explain why a player would want high skills. I'm not going to respond anymore to people trying to tell me how much fun I can have if I spend a year specializing in something and doing positively nothing else but this one area of specialization so that I can, in some way, be equal to a veteran. Astroniomix wrote:The biggest flaw in your plan is that the vets you are trying to catch up to will simply buy plex and add sp as well. So you will be stuck where you were before you started dumping money into your head to fix your problems. Hell, at least I'd be able to do something with my game-time and money. Right now, I can only fly a few ships, crappily, but I have assloads of money from playing often and trading. Plus, this gives me a chance to catch up. A CHANCE. If I try and lose to win the isk race, I'll be fine with that. Losing the "who signed up first race" just makes me see this game as pointless. Did you forget to train skills for 3 years or something? With your current atitude you stand no chance against anything even if you had all relevant skills to lvl 5. Honestly I was probably more of a threat to other players within my first month of playing than you ever will be. |
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
194
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 04:04:00 -
[42] - Quote
Buzzy Warstl wrote:After umpteen iterations through this argument, I still haven't heard anybody against it give a clear argument as to what it actually breaks.
The argument is simple, if you impliment a PLEX=X mil SP system you are simply raising the standards of entry to the game. New players will be forced to burn 100's of dollars just to feel like they can compete with everyone else that is buying skills. This alone would turn many of the less fortunate players from the game and stagnate the population. Nothing will be solved by this, if this ever happens only the rich or the really old vets will be able to play the game. I personally know many new players and help them as best as I can.
On to what really matters, the fact that a younger player can compete with the older ones quite well after just 3 months is the normal and not the acception. Eve is a complicated game and it takes several months to get the nuances of the mechanics down. Ironically it also takes several months to skill up to a reasonable level to really be competitive with the already established players. This timeline might have been on purpose, it might of been by accident, but the fact is that it works well.
Being a veteran eve player (playing 4 years now) I know for a fact that there are characters out there that have 4x the SP that I do. But that doesn't matter because I have a lot of friends, and he has a lot of friends, so lets shoot each others friends.
The advice I always give to new players is simple: -Find a good group of friends that play when you play -Start working on you Core Competency Standard Cert (I know certs are crap but it gives new players focus, and the Core Competency ones are ok) -Dable into the different career paths and play styles in Eve, train low end skills between competency skills -Ask questions and do your own research, hopefully there is a vet around you can annoy with questions -Forget about your skill points, enjoy the game and don't worry if someone is ahead of you, just like in real life, if you have the skill you can get a promotion/job over someone with more experience if you know what your doing
|
Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
27
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 04:06:00 -
[43] - Quote
Astroniomix wrote: Did you forget to train skills for 3 years or something? With your current atitude you stand no chance against anything even if you had all relevant skills to lvl 5. Honestly I was probably more of a threat to other players within my first month of playing than you ever will be.
I find it hard to take seriously someone from a corp called "Elite Troll" |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
1103
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 04:10:00 -
[44] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:Astroniomix wrote: Did you forget to train skills for 3 years or something? With your current atitude you stand no chance against anything even if you had all relevant skills to lvl 5. Honestly I was probably more of a threat to other players within my first month of playing than you ever will be.
I find it hard to take seriously someone from a corp called "Elite Troll"
Better than a NPC posting alt. |
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
195
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 04:12:00 -
[45] - Quote
mxzf wrote:Aranakas wrote:Astroniomix wrote: Did you forget to train skills for 3 years or something? With your current atitude you stand no chance against anything even if you had all relevant skills to lvl 5. Honestly I was probably more of a threat to other players within my first month of playing than you ever will be.
I find it hard to take seriously someone from a corp called "Elite Troll" Better than a NPC posting alt.
I ressemble that remark. |
Astroniomix
EliteTroll
19
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 04:12:00 -
[46] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:Astroniomix wrote: Did you forget to train skills for 3 years or something? With your current atitude you stand no chance against anything even if you had all relevant skills to lvl 5. Honestly I was probably more of a threat to other players within my first month of playing than you ever will be.
I find it hard to take seriously someone from a corp called "Elite Troll" Mayhaps. But that's still a 4 year old account your posting with. |
Caliph Muhammed
Short Bus Friends
94
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 04:22:00 -
[47] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:Astroniomix wrote: Did you forget to train skills for 3 years or something? With your current atitude you stand no chance against anything even if you had all relevant skills to lvl 5. Honestly I was probably more of a threat to other players within my first month of playing than you ever will be.
I find it hard to take seriously someone from a corp called "Elite Troll"
No one is taking you serious either. Just sit back and relax and enjoy your training. It's not going to change, You will never buy skill points and for the while you will remain a small fish in a big pond. Go load your que and stop embarassing yourself on the forums.
I do love tears, please provide me some. |
Herold Oldtimer
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
48
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 10:13:00 -
[48] - Quote
The only way I could agree a little to this kind of idea would be if as i said, the character gets locked to the account, so that it can not be misused in any way by the character bazar, and second, if for the next 30 days you can not train anything. (to let the mind cool down or something)
One thing every player needs to keep in mind when playing this game is that it is not a who-can-get-the-best-ship-first kind of game. Skills are important in the sense that the game hold back on stuff you might not be ready to use yet. So that you won't get more angry about you dying more but don't kow why.
And lastly, this is a MMO, it is a game meant to be played together with others. What might be an impossible hurdle for you alone may seem like a breeze with others. Flying with a friend means double the firepower and his strengths will cover for your weaknesses and vice versa. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
175
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 13:26:00 -
[49] - Quote
what a ******* troll thread. hell, NO! |
Vigilant Archer
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 21:20:00 -
[50] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:what a ******* troll thread. hell, NO!
This made me wonder about what percentage of forums like this and WoW leveling styles are created by players who don't understand the current level system or are actually trolls.
regardless they can be some interesting forums. |
|
Zombo Brian
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 21:26:00 -
[51] - Quote
you know what? let them do it, besides being a gamebreaking-nonthought-WoW-Style idea that would allow people with money get whatever they want:
more noobs in machariels aggroing ninja salvagers not tagged -> concord
but seriously, no, one of the worst ideas i've ever heard, i cant imagine how many players would leave eve
it would destroy the whole game imho |
Vigilant Archer
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 21:39:00 -
[52] - Quote
Zombo Brian wrote:you know what? let them do it, besides being a gamebreaking-nonthought-WoW-Style idea that would allow people with money get whatever they want:
more noobs in machariels aggroing ninja salvagers not tagged -> concord
but seriously, no, one of the worst ideas i've ever heard, i cant imagine how many players would leave eve
it would destroy the whole game imho
Yes something like this would only result in more tears from newer players who don't know how to fit their new battleship right because they fast tracked it.
Also, I doubt any player that is new to EVE would spend the money to do this, after playing a game for 3 months would you spend additional money to the subscription fee? I wouldn't, and if I couldn't compete in the game otherwise, I would simply quit because I'm not going to spend money on something like this in a game I've only played for 3 months I would feel like I'm being taken advantage of instead and simply unsub in disgust and warn other people not to play such a game. |
Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
30
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 22:52:00 -
[53] - Quote
It's not about paying the subscription fee twice, it's about playing the game with your head and getting ahead.
I get the feeling that the only reason I'm seeing so much opposition on this is because old players don't want to give up their advantage.
EVE is made up mostly of veterans who want no change because it would shatter their perceived superiority over the new players. What they don't realize is that new players are the lifeblood of any game, and if EVE can't draw in enough new players, the devs will start making changes (in fact, they already are).
Either way, I could as I said a DOZEN TIMES, I can just buy a bloody titan pilot off the bazaar if I wanted to, which is what I just might do anyways one day. Don't be mad just because you failed to make yourself rich in a game based around making yourself rich.
Not like it isn't laughably easy anyways. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
176
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 23:32:00 -
[54] - Quote
you dont need a lot of SP to be effective or useful in this game. if you werent that f*cking rtarded, you would get this by yourself. |
Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
30
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 23:35:00 -
[55] - Quote
If you weren't ******* ********, you'd realize that if I had a ton of SP, I'd be able to fly all the ships I wanted to fly; and I'd be able to fly them better than I can currently.
God, what part of
+5% effectiveness per level
don't you understand? |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
178
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 23:37:00 -
[56] - Quote
moron, get out. |
Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
30
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 23:38:00 -
[57] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:moron, get out.
Posts hidden. You must be dense to have such wonderful responses to an idea you don't like. |
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
290
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 23:38:00 -
[58] - Quote
Aranakas wrote: If anything, NOT being able to catch up to older players on your own character will KILL EVE.
You know why people leave? Because they have to wait months to do anything in this game and can never catch up in skill points to older players. That's why I left the first time. That's why my friends refuse to play.
Lies WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place... |
Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
30
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 23:45:00 -
[59] - Quote
Serge Bastana wrote:Aranakas wrote: If anything, NOT being able to catch up to older players on your own character will KILL EVE.
You know why people leave? Because they have to wait months to do anything in this game and can never catch up in skill points to older players. That's why I left the first time. That's why my friends refuse to play.
Lies
It's true. People like to play games to play them on equal terms, the way they like. People don't like to be artificially told they are less statistically effective than someone else, or that they can't play the role they want to for a year. |
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
290
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 00:08:00 -
[60] - Quote
Besides pandering to the 'instant gratification' crowd, which is not what this MMO is about, you are effective early on if you work with others, which is what the new members of my corp are finding after only being in the game for a few weeks at most, they're running a few level 4 missions to earn some isk as a team, even though none of them are capable of flying battleships yet. There are even players less than a week or two old helping out in their destroyers, hence the second M in the MMO classification of this type of game, teamplay.
This idea would also be of immense use to those with botting accounts following the new rules put in place by CCP Skreegs, whereby a character is locked to the account when they are judged to have been using bots. They could easily use the money gained from their botting activities to almost instantly train up a new character to continue in those activities, so for that reason and the one above I cannot in good conscience ever support such an idea. WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place... |
|
Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
31
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 00:34:00 -
[61] - Quote
Serge Bastana wrote:Besides pandering to the 'instant gratification' crowd, which is not what this MMO is about, you are effective early on if you work with others, which is what the new members of my corp are finding after only being in the game for a few weeks at most, they're running a few level 4 missions to earn some isk as a team, even though none of them are capable of flying battleships yet. There are even players less than a week or two old helping out in their destroyers, hence the second M in the MMO classification of this type of game, teamplay.
This idea would also be of immense use to those with botting accounts following the new rules put in place by CCP Skreegs, whereby a character is locked to the account when they are judged to have been using bots. They could easily use the money gained from their botting activities to almost instantly train up a new character to continue in those activities, so for that reason and the one above I cannot in good conscience ever support such an idea.
CCP could easily ban the botters' IP; Mac address and credit card.
If I can group up, my competitors can group up and double their advantage. People have competition in this game, hence the M.
If a group of friends all signed up through the 30 day trial, and we wanted to pvp, they'd set up their queues and log off. Off to a good start already. When they finally have microwarpdrives and warp scramblers, they fit a rifter in crappy meta gear. Then when they go out to low sec, they get blown up by gate guns. Okay, looks like they need to go to null sec. They go out to null sec and get blown up by probably a small gang made up of dramiels and cynabals. Hell, let's say they were super pros. They read all the guides and duelled eachother in Jita until their understanding was top notch. They'd still lose because their support skills are at 3 and their rifters are a quarter as good as the dramiels they are fighting.
Or if they wanted to trade, they'd sit in Jita all day undercutting deals by pennies at a time because they don't have the skills to effectively trade region-wide. They'd say "this game is stupid, let's not sign up".
Or if they wanted to manufacture, they'd sit at a station, logged off most of the time, producing frigates and t1 modules at barely any profits. "" ""
At least if they could increase their skills, they would have something to work towards. That first 500 mil, because it would mean an incredible increase in their ability to play the game the way they like.
"Instant gratification" isn't the same as "instant fun", which is what any game should be. The skills mechanic, as a whole is useless imo, and if it won't be done away with (as it certainly won't), it should at least be improved.
Basically, skills say to new players "this game is not for you". So new players don't like it.
Edit: It's the same in any MMO that new players are inferior to veterans, but never permanently, and through working at the game, they can become statistically equal to their rivals. Not in eve. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
403
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 00:44:00 -
[62] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:CCP could easily ban the botters' IP; Mac address and credit card.
If I can group up, my competitors can group up and double their advantage. People have competition in this game, hence the M. You are an idiot.
Aranakas wrote:If a group of friends all signed up through the 30 day trial, and we wanted to pvp, they'd set up their queues and log off. Off to a good start already. When they finally have microwarpdrives and warp scramblers, they fit a rifter in crappy meta gear. Then when they go out to low sec, they get blown up by gate guns. Okay, looks like they need to go to null sec. They go out to null sec and get blown up by probably a small gang made up of dramiels and cynabals. Hell, let's say they were super pros. They read all the guides and duelled eachother in Jita until their understanding was top notch. They'd still lose because their support skills are at 3 and their rifters are a quarter as good as the dramiels they are fighting. Then they stop being ******* idiots flying a couple of rifters into faction frigate fleets, and join a real PvP corp. Now they're part of a rifter swarm, taking on battleships and ganking stuff all over with the help of friends.
Aranakas wrote:Or if they wanted to trade, they'd sit in Jita all day undercutting deals by pennies at a time because they don't have the skills to effectively trade region-wide. They'd say "this game is stupid, let's not sign up". Or, they'd have read a little about the game. If they'd taken the time to learn what is planned for the future they may have invested some ISK in, say, Zydrine. Then, selling it off yeserday when it spiked, they would have tripled their ISK.
Same thing is probably going to happen with tags thanks to that bounties crap, and it happens to other items all the time.
Aranakas wrote:"Instant gratification" isn't the same as "instant fun", which is what any game should be. The skills mechanic, as a whole is useless imo, and if it won't be done away with (as it certainly won't), it should at least be improved.
Basically, skills say to new players "this game is not for you". So new players don't like it. No, this game shouldn't be "instant fun", because some of us don't find that kind of instant gratification entertaining. Some of us like having to plan, wait and enjoy the fact that a skill has genuine value to us.
If I wanted a game as easy as counterstrike I'd go and play counterstrike, now if you want some pay to win crap shoot please, by all means, uninstall and go find another game. In the meantime keep quiet and let the rest of us play Eve.
--Will Support Your Terrible Forum Thread For ISK-- |
Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
31
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 00:47:00 -
[63] - Quote
Edit: misread what you said by skimming over it.
Anyways,
If you don't like instant fun, go stand in the line at a coffee shop, then when you get to the head of the line, tell the cashier you haven't decided, and you need more time to plan, then go to the back. I think that would be incredibly amusing to someone of your IQ. |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
84
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 00:50:00 -
[64] - Quote
All paying for skills gives is access. It doesn't impart player skill, contacts, knowledge, or anything else you need to succeed in EvE.
It might give people the *idea* that they need to pay to win, but an experienced player in a frigate will still be able to take down a noob in a failfit battleship (especially one who only bought the hull skills because they didn't know better).
So it would be the biggest advantage for experienced players.
It would, however, most likely do away with the character bazaar. |
Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
31
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 00:54:00 -
[65] - Quote
Buzzy Warstl wrote:All paying for skills gives is access. It doesn't impart player skill, contacts, knowledge, or anything else you need to succeed in EvE.
It might give people the *idea* that they need to pay to win, but an experienced player in a frigate will still be able to take down a noob in a failfit battleship (especially one who only bought the hull skills because they didn't know better).
So it would be the biggest advantage for experienced players.
It would, however, most likely do away with the character bazaar.
I agree completely, and this is the goal. Just the ability to fast-forward what you have access to with the character you made. |
XXSketchxx
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
209
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 00:56:00 -
[66] - Quote
Consider suicide. |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
85
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 01:10:00 -
[67] - Quote
XXSketchxx wrote:Consider suicide. I did, and the thought of you biomassing yourself over such triviata gave me warm fuzzies |
Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
31
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 01:13:00 -
[68] - Quote
XXSketchxx wrote:Consider suicide.
Watch it or the whole CFC will get banned the way you guys act. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
404
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 01:17:00 -
[69] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:Edit: misread what you said by skimming over it.
Anyways,
If you don't like instant fun, go stand in the line at a coffee shop, then when you get to the head of the line, tell the cashier you haven't decided, and you need more time to plan, then go to the back. I think that would be incredibly amusing to someone of your IQ. Why don't you go outside and throw a ball at something. I'm sure that would be adequate entertainment for someone of your IQ.
Buzzy Warstl wrote:All paying for skills gives is access. It doesn't impart player skill, contacts, knowledge, or anything else you need to succeed in EvE.
It might give people the *idea* that they need to pay to win, but an experienced player in a frigate will still be able to take down a noob in a failfit battleship (especially one who only bought the hull skills because they didn't know better).
So it would be the biggest advantage for experienced players.
It would, however, most likely do away with the character bazaar. What do you think keeps players in this game? Eve, as an MMO, has the best player retention rate of any other game out there. If you have played Eve for 3-6 months, you are very unlikely to leave. Ever. How do you explain that?
Personally, I think Eve's extremely long passive skill system acts as an excellent psychological hook. For most of my Eve career I have been aiming towards something, and it's always been just around the corner. By the time I reach it, I usually have a secondary goal in sight.
This also forces us to genuinely invest in specific targets, skills are not meaningless when they cost us weeks of training time. If you introduce pay-to-win, skills no longer have meaning. I personally have tens of billions I could sink into characters at the drop of a hat, unlocking every ship in the game for myself instantaneously.
It would be nice, but it spoils the fun. I strongly suspect the OP is the kind of person who ruined all the games he played as a child by enabling god mode.
--Will Support Your Terrible Forum Thread For ISK-- |
Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
37
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 01:22:00 -
[70] - Quote
Quote:Why don't you go outside and throw a ball at something. I'm sure that would be adequate entertainment for someone of your IQ.
I laughed hard. Go play some sports once in a while, you basement dweller. |
|
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
404
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 01:24:00 -
[71] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:I laughed hard. Go play some sports once in a while, you basement dweller. I play sports.
Fifa counts as a sport, right?
--Will Support Your Terrible Forum Thread For ISK-- |
Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
37
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 01:28:00 -
[72] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Aranakas wrote:I laughed hard. Go play some sports once in a while, you basement dweller. I play sports. Fifa counts as a sport, right?
I lol'd. +1 |
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
293
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 01:58:00 -
[73] - Quote
This is what happens when you couple lack of player experience with high skill points
Scius and the Dreadnaught WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place... |
Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
39
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 02:21:00 -
[74] - Quote
That's an exceptional case. Most players would at least familiarize themselves with a multi-billion isk ship before attempting to use it.
But a fool and his money are soon parted. I've spent many hours reading guides; player opinions; battleclinic loadouts and gangs and trying to understand why some ships/gangs are popular while others are downvoted.
But no matter how much I know, or how much I practice with my nooby ships; I still can't upgrade. I can't even BEGIN to upgrade for the next month in fact because my alliance leader has a skill plan I need to fill out to stay in the alliance. These skills are completely useless for anything but alliance warfare, but a necessary evil because my character isn't skilled at anything that could be of use. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
407
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 02:35:00 -
[75] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:That's an exceptional case. Most players would at least familiarize themselves with a multi-billion isk ship before attempting to use it. But a fool and his money are soon parted. I've spent many hours reading guides; player opinions; battleclinic loadouts and gangs and trying to understand why some ships/gangs are popular while others are downvoted. But no matter how much I know, or how much I practice with my nooby ships; I still can't upgrade. I can't even BEGIN to upgrade for the next month in fact because my alliance leader has a skill plan I need to fill out to stay in the alliance. These skills are completely useless for anything but alliance warfare, but a necessary evil because my character isn't skilled at anything that could be of use. lol, your alliance chooses what skills you train? Sounds like you're in the wrong alliance, have you considered joining an alliance that does smaller gang stuff instead? They will let you train/fly whatever the hell you want, and you might enjoy it more.
A lot of crappy null sec alliances will try and force you to train large BS guns for their FoTM doctrine ship. This is rarely in your best interest as a young player, and you should just ignore them and train up t2 cruisers/frigates/t3s or whatever else you find fun instead.
--Will Support Your Terrible Forum Thread For ISK-- |
Virgil Travis
GWA Corp
6
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 02:42:00 -
[76] - Quote
In an alliance, probably a null sec one, posting on an alt, about your alliance leader having a 'skill training plan' and asking for easy ways to train up characters using plex for sp. Interesting. |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
85
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 02:47:00 -
[77] - Quote
Cool story, bro.
You see, the problem there was a noob, with a bunch of stuff he didn't know what to do with, with a *history* that led others to believe he might be competent.
If he bought it all from scratch there wouldn't have been that misleading history.
The character exchange is totally a mess, I can see why people think that anything similar would be just as bad. |
Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
39
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 02:50:00 -
[78] - Quote
Ultimately, I want to be a capital pilot and fighting with the big boys in the epic alliance combat eve is known for. It's a slow start though. A really slow start. |
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
196
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 04:09:00 -
[79] - Quote
The slow skill system is something the invariably draws me to keep my accounts subbed. It took me years to train to a capital ship, and I'm glad it took that long.
At first I dreamed of flying a titan, dropping onto a battlefield and destroying all in my path (back when DD's were AoE). As I played the game I realized that in actuallity I love to fly frigates and cruisers more than the larger ships. I am thankful that I didn't have the option to shoot straight for the titan with bought skill points, I would have missed the things that I love most about the game now. Don't get me wrong I do fly capitals, but I abhore my dread and only use it when shooting structures.
SP doesn't matter, start a trial account and solo pvp with it, if you know your ships and your engagement tactics well you can easily kill vets making stupid mistakes. I've personally killed over 250 mil ISK to 6.7 mil ISK lost on a 2 week trial account, a 99% efficiency rating, and all of those kills save one was against 1+ year old vets. The barrier of entry in Eve isn't SP, it is game knowledge, once you realize this your entire argument goes out the window.
If you get a brand new job with no experience in the field, would you expect to be on the same level with the guys that have been working there for 10 years, no. You would work hard to learn and after a while you will catch up with knowledge, but that experience has to be hard earned you can never really catch up to them, you just have to take what you can get. Eventually you'll be counted in that elite group of top employees and might even get promoted. Eve is that new job, and no one has direct experience with it, so they start fresh. I know it sucks sometimes, but it is life and it is Eve.
HTFU take what you got and be happy that you got that much, if you don't like it I know of several games out there that pander to there player base.
|
Astroniomix
EliteTroll
22
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 04:10:00 -
[80] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:Ultimately, I want to be a capital pilot and fighting with the big boys in the epic alliance combat eve is known for. It's a slow start though. A really slow start. HOW BIG of a break did you take from eve? Your character is over 4 years old. Mine is slightly over half your characer's age and by the way you are talking, it sounds like I easily have twice as many skill points as you. |
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Nergart
GWA Corp
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 11:59:00 -
[81] - Quote
bad idea.
I have always believed that the skill training system on eve online is one of its unique features. As a unique feature it provides alot of threads like this. I understand that for new players it can be frustrating not having the skills to fly that shiny new nightmare you want.
one thing to remember is even if a character has 100m sp and you fight them in a frigate, all the sp that is not applied to that frigate is useless. only advantage an older player has then is experience of game mechanics such as session timers and aggression, cant say piloting ability as some people who have been in this game for years still cant fly a vagabond right.
all I see with this is alliances having all the power, Morsus Mihi famously had 15 trillion isk in their alliance wallet, apply that to plex and you see the problems this could create in terms of the number of new characters and the number of alts able to be used for flying a titan in 5 mins. (we have far too many of those imo. but that's another matter)
I really do wish that people would get over themselves on the "oh I have this much sp" I can fly a carrier and everything
what's the point if you can be killed by a 2 week old player in a thorax because you dident learn how to fit the ship, or how you should be flying it.
Eve does not have a learning curve, its a learning cliff. Either learn to fly on the way down or its going to be a hard landing |
Plaude Pollard
Aliastra Gallente Federation
14
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 12:32:00 -
[82] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:Give us "Pay-To-Win" content. There. I just made your post a lot more comprehensible.
Also, not a chance. This won't make players happier. It'll make the thousands of players with little RL-cash very miserable, when everyone else suddenly gains millions of Skill Points instantly. The Skill-training system works just fine the way it is right now. What you proposed will destroy the current balance, by letting a new player start out with the skills to fly a f*cking Battleship if they just pay for a single PLEX. They'll even have skills to fly it somewhat decently if they just get themselves 6 PLEX. As it is now, the skill-training system is designed so your skills grow at the same pace as your player-skills. You won't know how to properly fit a ship until you've had at least 240 hours of active flight-time in it (Hint: That's 10 days of non-stop flying). And that's for Cruisers and smaller ships. If you're going to master a Battleship, you'll need atleast twice the amount of flight-hours. And for a Capital, 10 times the amount of flight-hours, most of which will probably be spent blowing up.
In short, don't encourage CCP to add "Pay-To-Win" stuff. You'll just end up whining over it later. |
Radelix Cisko
The Adjustment Team
31
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 20:04:00 -
[83] - Quote
To the OP
NO, this is a sh*t idea. There are only certain skills relevant to the boat you are flying. Take the time to understand how to use the boat you have before moving on. |
Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
47
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 20:57:00 -
[84] - Quote
Radelix Cisko wrote:To the OP
NO, this is a sh*t idea. There are only certain skills relevant to the boat you are flying. Take the time to understand how to use the boat you have before moving on.
I did. I can't move on because the game lets me move on at its rate, not mine.
Quote:Give us "Pay-To-Win" content.
Most of the people on this thread tell me that I don't need skillpoints to win. Now you're telling me that skillpoints are winning?
Quote:If you get a brand new job with no experience in the field, would you expect to be on the same level with the guys that have been working there for 10 years, no. You would work hard to learn and after a while you will catch up with knowledge, but that experience has to be hard earned you can never really catch up to them, you just have to take what you can get. Eventually you'll be counted in that elite group of top employees and might even get promoted. Eve is that new job, and no one has direct experience with it, so they start fresh. I know it sucks sometimes, but it is life and it is Eve.
If I got a brand new job, I would expect to work hard and get promoted. If I worked harder than everyone else, I'd expect to get promoted faster.
Quote:HTFU take what you got and be happy that you got that much, if you don't like it I know of several games out there that pander to there player base.
Stupid games, huh, trying to make their players have fun. Games aren't about fun at all.
P.S. And once again, as many people don't get. People can already "pay to win" and upgrade their characters through the Bazaar. If a veteran suddenly sold their character, it would be no different to the game's balance than if someone suddenly upgraded their character. In fact, skills have no bearing on balance at all, and create more of an imbalance than anything. |
Vigilant Archer
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 20:57:00 -
[85] - Quote
At any rate new players wouldn't actually use this, they'd just unsub, the players that would use this are the players who are going to stick with EVE anyway. |
Vigilant Archer
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 21:01:00 -
[86] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:[quote=Radelix Cisko]To the OP Quote:HTFU take what you got and be happy that you got that much, if you don't like it I know of several games out there that pander to there player base. Stupid games, huh, trying to make their players have fun. Games aren't about fun at all.
yep you're definetely a troll or an idiot
I won't bother to go into detail for this because if you're a troll you already know this and if your an idiot you won't understand anyway.
The skill system the way it is now adds to the fun of EVE.
|
Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
47
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 21:03:00 -
[87] - Quote
Vigilant Archer wrote: The skill system the way it is now adds to the fun of EVE.
How? |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
624
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 21:13:00 -
[88] - Quote
I am curious if CCP has any statistics on how many people didn't stick with the game because of this issue.
Probly something like .1%.
Really this idea is bad for CCP.
Say someone wants to be a Titan pilot. Now, they skill up paying as they go each month. They find a lot of things they like to do. They finally reach a Titan, and realize they don't like it. but they like other things and so they keep playing.
With your suggestion, they skill up, find out they don't like Titans, and leave because they don't like anything else. |
Vigilant Archer
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 21:17:00 -
[89] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:Vigilant Archer wrote: The skill system the way it is now adds to the fun of EVE.
How? All I hear is rage that I suggested to take away someone's banana sticker. So tell me, what fun does this timer-based banana sticker system add?
I will only post this once more, the concepts around this have already been made clear and explained over and over again, and the reason for the current skill system has been explained over and over again if you still don't understand it's your fault.
Remember EVE is about the journey not the destination.
It' not the destination that matters it's the journey. The same can be said about life. We're all on a journey that ends in our death. We know our destination we don't know how we will get there we just know that we will someday. It's the good experiences and the bad experiences, the friends we make and the enemies we create, what we accomplish, what we fail to accomplish, the love that we make and the love that we lose, the good that we do and the bad that we do, the interesting people we meet, our hopes and our fears, our wishes, our longings, the times that we laugh in joy and the times that we cry in despair, those are what make life worth living. At the end of our life when our sun is about to set, when we look back on our life before we die it is if we smile in joy our cringe in regret that determines if we lead a good life, not our death. When we die our bodies decay into dust, those who remember us also eventually die, and sooner or later we are all forgotten by history, nobody to remember what we have accomplished, when our sun is about to set if we ourselves can't look back on our life and smile then we have not lived life to the fullest, I wouldn't have it any other way. Besides who knows death may just be the beginning of an exciting new adventure just as the sun that sets will eventually rise again and repeat it's journey across the sky once again.
Now consider the meaning of this. |
Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
47
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 21:19:00 -
[90] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:I am curious if CCP has any statistics on how many people didn't stick with the game because of this issue.
Probly something like .1%.
Really this idea is bad for CCP.
Say someone wants to be a Titan pilot. Now, they skill up paying as they go each month. They find a lot of things they like to do. They finally reach a Titan, and realize they don't like it. but they like other things and so they keep playing.
With your suggestion, they skill up, find out they don't like Titans, and leave because they don't like anything else.
With what money? If they use ingame money, then they only fast forward once a month or so, so they essentially get double experience. The same experience, but they get to what they want faster.
On the other hand, if they are going to leave, then they'd leave anyways, but they just handed CCP some 500 bucks (or however much it takes, I didn't count). If just 100 people/year are that foolish, CCP made some extra $50k/year for doing absolutely nothing and can use that money to improve the game. More GMs for faster responses, more animators and developers for better ships, better servers and more devs responsible for game balance. Surely that would draw in more players too, and make the game experience more enjoyable for all. |
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Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
47
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 21:23:00 -
[91] - Quote
Vigilant Archer wrote: Remember EVE is about the journey not the destination.
It's a sandbox game, it's a place to waste your time. Maybe I want to waste my time flying a big ship while you want to waste your time on some pseudo-meaningful life journey. That is all. |
Vigilant Archer
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 21:30:00 -
[92] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:Vigilant Archer wrote: Remember EVE is about the journey not the destination.
It's a sandbox game, it's a place to waste your time. Maybe I want to waste my time flying a big ship while you want to waste your time on some pseudo-meaningful life journey. That is all.
Fine then go fly around in your big ship but don't ruin my so called "pseudo-meaningful life journey" as you call it or ruin other peoples experience of the game while you do so.
Oh and most importantly never ever tell somebody that something so close to the core of their being is false and stupid it serves no purpose and just makes them mad. Plus it just makes you a jerk, not some philosopher or something.
Oh and just for your information you may have just dismissed one big life lesson, you didn't have time to contemplate it's full meaning. |
Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
48
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 21:31:00 -
[93] - Quote
Vigilant Archer wrote: Oh and most importantly never ever tell somebody that something so close to the core of their being is false and stupid it serves no purpose and just makes them mad. Plus it just makes you a jerk, not some philosopher or something.
You're right. Of all the EVE-Philosophers I know, you're the greatest. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
410
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 21:37:00 -
[94] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:Vigilant Archer wrote: Oh and most importantly never ever tell somebody that something so close to the core of their being is false and stupid it serves no purpose and just makes them mad. Plus it just makes you a jerk, not some philosopher or something.
You're right. Of all the EVE-Philosophers I know, you're the greatest. Someone just got trolled hard, and I'm not quite sure which of you it is.
--Will Support Your Terrible Forum Thread For ISK-- |
Vigilant Archer
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 21:43:00 -
[95] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:Vigilant Archer wrote: Oh and most importantly never ever tell somebody that something so close to the core of their being is false and stupid it serves no purpose and just makes them mad. Plus it just makes you a jerk, not some philosopher or something.
You're right. Of all the EVE-Philosophers I know, you're the greatest.
One: My religious beliefs do not come from EVE, intended as a compliment or an insult you have just offended me. Two: you have just further emphasized my point. Three: seek to understand both sides before you make a judgement, I see where you're coming from and I find that you are blatantly wrong. Four: do not dismiss what I have said so blatantly I have spent a long time contemplating and thinking about stuff like that and I do not appreciate it being tossed out like a banana peel.
oh and btw if you're a troll you earn a 6/10 |
Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
49
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 21:52:00 -
[96] - Quote
Well, it was pretty deep regardless. From now on, whenever I log in to EVE, I'll be sure to laugh and cry as often as I can.
For instance, right now I am laughing. |
Vigilant Archer
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 21:55:00 -
[97] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:Well, it was pretty deep regardless. From now on, whenever I log in to EVE, I'll be sure to laugh and cry as often as I can.
For instance, right now I am laughing.
So am I. |
Vigilant Archer
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 22:00:00 -
[98] - Quote
Btw now that I've finally gotten you to admit to being a troll I do believe this thread is effectively over. |
Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
49
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 22:06:00 -
[99] - Quote
Vigilant Archer wrote:Btw now that I've finally gotten you to admit to being a troll I do believe this thread is effectively over.
Thank god |
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