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MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
200
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 03:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
soo inflation is prudy bad and mean old soundwave wants to reduce bounties on all npc's by 10%...
this is mainly because drone regions are loosing thier combat mining and getting bounties so expect inflation to get even worse if nothing is done...
so how does the community feel about this?
Personally i think if you want to reduce isk income why not make the npc's harder to kill and make them hit harder aswell? give them a modified sleeper a.i. that way you reduce isk per hour but keep bounties untouched? make npc's pod you in 0.0
or is it just simpler to reduce bounties? but i feel that reduction in bounties makes it like... ok old players who are already rich you get to stay rich but all those new players well tuff deal with it type of thing?
discuss.... |

Selinate
699
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 03:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
NERF INCURSIONS! |

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
524
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 03:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
reduce q20 l4s remove concord from incursions |

MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
200
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 03:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
Selinate wrote:NERF INCURSIONS!
already happening but TBH incursions are a problem but a small part of the ISK faucet pie...
by far missions complexes and annoms/ratting are where most of the isk comes from in eve...
|

Selinate
700
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 03:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
On a more serious note, I'd rather see them buff isk sinks.
MOAR TAXES. |

MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
200
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 03:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:reduce q20 l4s remove concord from incursions
what like make best l4 q15 or something like that?
i would like the whole mission system to be revamped...
make missions alot more harder with less payout but make them more engaging from a story line perspective... make thier eventual progression to push you into Faction warfare and PVP... heck make L4 mission have a pvp component in them...
|

MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
200
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 03:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
Selinate wrote:On a more serious note, I'd rather see them buff isk sinks.
MOAR TAXES.
what like if you want to take the nefarious superhighways you have to pay a tax eq to your ships mass? that way it would be cheaper to either stay in your region or try to be sneaky in low sec? |

Selinate
700
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 04:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Selinate wrote:On a more serious note, I'd rather see them buff isk sinks.
MOAR TAXES. what like if you want to take the nefarious superhighways you have to pay a tax eq to your ships mass? that way it would be cheaper to either stay in your region or try to be sneaky in low sec?
I'd say put a tax in low sec also, just because it would be hilarious.
"YARGH, WE BE PIRATES"
"Sorry sir, you can't jump through for the booty until you pay the jump toll"
"argh....." |

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
524
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 04:03:00 -
[9] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:reduce q20 l4s remove concord from incursions what like make best l4 q15 or something like that? no I mean just go back to when there was a far smaller amount of Q20 L4 agents so ninja salvagers/suicide gankers/general guys who troll highsec bears have a lot easier time for it because they're all bunched up in a handful of systems |

MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
200
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 04:05:00 -
[10] - Quote
Selinate wrote:MeBiatch wrote:Selinate wrote:On a more serious note, I'd rather see them buff isk sinks.
MOAR TAXES. what like if you want to take the nefarious superhighways you have to pay a tax eq to your ships mass? that way it would be cheaper to either stay in your region or try to be sneaky in low sec? I'd say put a tax in low sec also, just because it would be hilarious. "YARGH, WE BE PIRATES" "Sorry sir, you can't jump through for the booty until you pay the jump toll" "argh....."
actually that could be cool... like in 0,0 you own sov of the system and keeping a working stargate system can be expensive... think isk sink... so now you tax people when they jump threw your systems...
of coarse there would have to be ways to bypass this like having a hacking mod or skills that can reduce the price...
so what i am thinking is well if more isk is comming into eve make more isk sinks to take it away?
like wadges for your ships crew?
more personal upkeep costs...
cleaning lady cost to keep your CQ clean?
tip for exotic dancers... lol
|

Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
44
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 04:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
Assuming majority of generated ISK is from the spawnable sites in null, nerf Sanctums!
Oh wai... already tried that and null emo-raged until CCP backtracked, causing another spike in prices for everyone not botting/ratting in null.
Across the board, everywhere in Eve: Half of existing ISK bounties to be "paid" in material goods. Alleviates some of the "Need more workers!" woes as miners are not exactly crawling out of the woodwork, makes sense that more stuff drops considering the PvP drop chances, easier to modify for CCP as items represent an indirect and market determined value thus people won't get insta-ulcers and have veins popping all over the place if/when tweaked. Hell, mix it up why don't we .. Thar be Pirates! Have some drop 'treasure maps' infrequently (read: bookmarks) to whatever type of site the rat in question is associated with .. exploration by killing stuff, what is not to like * Note: Sites should not be as good as actual exploration! |

Grumpy Owly
403
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 04:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
I'm in favour of applying the adjustments where the problems are.
Whilst I'm not adverse to CCP adding to sinks if for instance bounties are the issue then reduce them. Boosting taxes to pay for disproportionate bounty incomes means someone else could end up having to foot the bill for a problem not directly relevant to themselves.
So in short apply remedies accordingly accross the board as a shared aspect based on the level of the problems they are causing. Surely this is the most sensible and logical way to eliviate those problematic features accordingly at the same time? Bounty Hunting for CSM7
It's just criminal - Smuggling |

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
290
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 04:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
It's never solely about ISK faucets. Think about it: there are other types of faucets as well, such as mineral faucets, moon goo faucets, etc. What needs to be done is that all of these faucets become properly balanced against one another. This most likely entails a moderate nerf to high-sec incursions and null-sec anomalies, a slight boost to null-sec ratting (which at the same time nerfs botting, by making the money come from selling dropped tags from each rat for example), and a significant boost to all types of belt mining.
Getting rid of ISK generation entirely is deathly wrong. |

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
436
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 04:09:00 -
[14] - Quote
Let the drone drop change and prices run thier course and see where things land. If mining becomes more valuable than shooting rats, the monetary expansion will slow down. |

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
524
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 04:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:Assuming majority of generated ISK is from the spawnable sites in null, nerf Sanctums!
Oh wai... already tried that and null emo-raged until CCP backtracked, causing another spike in prices for everyone not botting/ratting in null. you should read up on CCP Screegs' presentation on botting - 75% of bots are in highsec. not that i'd expect a cva member to actually rat in their lousy space |

Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
184
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 04:24:00 -
[16] - Quote
Selinate wrote:MeBiatch wrote:Selinate wrote:On a more serious note, I'd rather see them buff isk sinks.
MOAR TAXES. what like if you want to take the nefarious superhighways you have to pay a tax eq to your ships mass? that way it would be cheaper to either stay in your region or try to be sneaky in low sec? I'd say put a tax in low sec also, just because it would be hilarious. "YARGH, WE BE PIRATES" "Sorry sir, you can't jump through for the booty until you pay the jump toll" "argh....." So something like this?
You've got to remember that these are just simple miners. These are people of the land. The common clay of New Eden. You know... morons. |

Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
44
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 04:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Veshta Yoshida wrote:Assuming majority of generated ISK is from the spawnable sites in null, nerf Sanctums!
Oh wai... already tried that and null emo-raged until CCP backtracked, causing another spike in prices for everyone not botting/ratting in null. you should read up on CCP Screegs' presentation on botting - 75% of bots are in highsec. not that i'd expect a cva member to actually rat in their lousy space What does CVA have to with anything? 
You have a link to his stats, the only thing of his I can find is the useless "we are on it" blog with a picture of dried fish. At any rate, I'd reckon the high-sec bots are miners pumping out lowends whereas null bots are doing raw ISK .. damage to Eve from ISK bots is higher I think.
|

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
524
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 04:30:00 -
[18] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote: You have a link to his stats, the only thing of his I can find is the useless "we are on it" blog with a picture of dried fish. At any rate, I'd reckon the high-sec bots are miners pumping out lowends whereas null bots are doing raw ISK .. damage to Eve from ISK bots is higher I think.
no problem
https://twitter.com/#!/Seleene_EVE/status/183181587096158208/photo/1/large
more botters were found in The Forge then in all of nullsec combined. |

Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
420
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 04:40:00 -
[19] - Quote
much higher wardec cost, no more griefing a corp for 2mil or alliance for 50mil more taxes, this will also make market skills more useful. nerfing vanguards a bit more LP rewards in the LP stores<- these are great isk sinks nerfing bounties across the board i don't mind a whole lot but i think it should be the last resort thing. |

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
290
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 04:49:00 -
[20] - Quote
Herping yourDerp wrote:much higher wardec cost, no more griefing a corp for 2mil or alliance for 50mil Now, I'm not saying 2 million war fees are entirely fair, but bear with me on this.
What you're saying is essentially that honest empire pvpers (we're not talking morality here, but exploitation of game mechanics via botting) should be penalized by having to pay off the excessive ISK that their targets, many of whom make heavy use of bots, generate. How is this a good way to offset ISK faucet imbalance? War fees might need to get adjusted for balance reasons, but not anything else. |

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
526
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 05:22:00 -
[21] - Quote
wrote:much higher wardec cost, no more griefing a corp for 2mil or alliance for 50. Herping yourDerp's Plan to Reduce Isk Injection - increase fines on PVP
lol |

ivar R'dhak
STK Scientific
15
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 07:05:00 -
[22] - Quote
No more taxes.
Leave bounties alone.
BUT: Use the LP store more effectively as an isk sink! Convert agent isk payout completely to LP.
Offer more "isk instead of tag" options in the LP store! Of course balance it carefully against current prices. That-¦s why they pay you DEVs the big bugs after-all.  |

Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
391
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 07:12:00 -
[23] - Quote
Hmm, I thought long and hard, hard and long. For a long time my thoughts were very hard. Then I realised I didn't care.
Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |

Reaver Glitterstim
Resurrected Darkness
56
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 07:25:00 -
[24] - Quote
I agree with Ivar. The ISK costs of LP store items pale in comparison to their market or contract isk cost. If the ISK costs of items in LP stores were dramatically increased, that would create a big ISK sink.
Missions already give more LPs than I know what to do with though. I think there should be a LP amount reduction because my LPs aren't worth jack since there are too many LP faucets. Maybe increase the LP cost of faction items too. Considering their ISK and LP costs are usually just a small fraction of their value, while the real cost is from the items you have to trade in for them, it makes the LPs worthless and fails as an ISK sink.
So maybe the solution would be to double the LP and ISK costs of the items while cutting their trade-in item costs in half.
I was also thinking the drone compounds could be made into an item that can be turned into LP stores along with ISK and LPs to get certain faction goods. That'll take care of making them valuable while taking away the mineral faucet as well as adding an ISK and LP sink.
Then lastly there should be a tier 3 tech 2 battleship added that has tremendous DPS output for a subcap, and it'll be best at shooting down capital ships. Maybe it'll fit capital weapons. You have to pay the huge price to get that dps of course, but it'll come at the advantage of being safe-ish from capital ships while being abe to warp off quickly and dock just like the rest of the subcap fleet. That'll help create a capital ship sink to balance out the capital ship faucet that's already got too far out of hand. Players might also use them against capital rats. -á"The Mittani: Hated By Badposters i'm strangely comfortable with it" -Mittens |

ivar R'dhak
STK Scientific
16
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 07:40:00 -
[25] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Missions already give more LPs than I know what to do with though. I think there should be a LP amount reduction because my LPs aren't worth jack since there are too many LP faucets. Yeah, the LP sinking isn-¦t working that good either. Though it-¦s not that big of a problem yet as the humongous isk overabundance of certain people (*coughtechnetium). The economic myth of declaring "no inflation" because the overabundance of money isn-¦t doing anything at the moment(aka buying stuff and driving up prices) is just that, a fairytale.
On the other hand nerfing bounties just hurts the little guy in eve.
It-¦s all about the LP store again. It should offer a much more flexible way of buying stuff. How about Aurum for LP (1 Au per 10000 LP)?
Bottom line is, having skill books as the major isk sink just won-¦t do. Yet CCP has the LP store, since inception a forgotten perfect isk sink staring it in the face like a forlorn mummy. |

Ashley SchmidtVonGoldberg
1-800-FUBAR
64
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 07:42:00 -
[26] - Quote
Nerf all faucets im not interested in or cannot control
I think that sums up everything that everyone has posted so far Standing in for Karn Dulake who was banned for saying bad words |

Tobiaz
Spacerats
65
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 07:48:00 -
[27] - Quote
The new wardec mechanic is potentially going to be a big isk-sink. http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Tobiaz/sig_complaints.gif
How about fixing image-linking on the forums, CCP? I want to see signatures! |

Dutarro
Matari Munitions The Fendahlian Collective
36
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 07:50:00 -
[28] - Quote
OK how about an "out there" idea:
Mission reward does not give you ISK, but rather increases your credit line with some NPC bank. You can then borrow ISK against your credit line, but it must be paid back with interest. If you don't pay your bill, it is garnished from your wallet, or from negative PLEX on your account if no funds are available. Zero PLEX balance = sorry, no EVE for you.
The only true ISK income is then from transactions with other players, selling items on the market, collecting ransoms, or what not.. I think this is how real money works, actually. |

ivar R'dhak
STK Scientific
16
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 07:54:00 -
[29] - Quote
Dutarro wrote: I think this is how real money works, actually. Yes, and just like real money, it-¦s destined to fail because the money to pay the interest is never created and thus has to be basically stolen from others.
That-¦s called a pyramid scheme and is even worse for EVE than the current "real" EVE economy. |

ivar R'dhak
STK Scientific
16
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 07:58:00 -
[30] - Quote
*curses the oh so inviting golden "quote" buttan  |

Skydell
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
183
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 08:33:00 -
[31] - Quote
I'd prefer a Dust based ISK sink with a real possibility of a return on it. |

Reaver Glitterstim
Resurrected Darkness
57
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 08:35:00 -
[32] - Quote
Ashley SchmidtVonGoldberg wrote:Nerf all faucets im not interested in or cannot control
I think that sums up everything that everyone has posted so far
I'll bet you think Mittens wants to nerf supercaps because he's afraid of them. -á"The Mittani: Hated By Badposters i'm strangely comfortable with it" -Mittens |

Reaver Glitterstim
Resurrected Darkness
57
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 08:37:00 -
[33] - Quote
Skydell wrote:I'd prefer a Dust based ISK sink with a real possibility of a return on it.
I'm actually hoping that all of the ISK in DUST-514 comes from EVE. That way, their individual worth will be dependent upon how many of them there are compared to how many of us there are. If there are a hundred of them to every one of us, then they should feel that a hundredth of what one of us is willing to pay for services is a nice paycheck. -á"The Mittani: Hated By Badposters i'm strangely comfortable with it" -Mittens |

Malande
Terra Incorporation Active Endeavors
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 09:06:00 -
[34] - Quote
TBH you have two real choices, nerf bounties or increase taxes (or a mix of both)
And lets face it of those to.... its bounties that are going to be the ones that get the biggest axe (which should be fairly obvious to anyone who saw the economy presentation). http://ineptcontent.co.uk |

Smoking Blunts
ZC Industries Dark Stripes
216
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 09:09:00 -
[35] - Quote
a straight up 20% reduction in all payouts, missions, incursions, bounties, could even reduce minerals in ores by 20% too, fuckit screw everyone at the same time CCP-áare full of words and no action. We will watch what they are doing, for now
|

Reaver Glitterstim
Resurrected Darkness
57
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 09:11:00 -
[36] - Quote
Malande wrote:TBH you have two real choices, nerf bounties or increase taxes (or a mix of both) You don't think that creating more isk sinks, or boosting the current isk sinks are either viable solutions?
I think there are many possible ways to handle this well, plenty of which we likely won't even think of. -á"The Mittani: Hated By Badposters i'm strangely comfortable with it" -Mittens |

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
436
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 09:11:00 -
[37] - Quote
Smoking Blunts wrote:a straight up 20% reduction in all payouts, missions, incursions, bounties, could even reduce minerals in ores by 20% too, fuckit screw everyone at the same time
So leave all the same problems in place, just reduce the overall numbers by 20% ... Let's just shift the decimal place over one digit to the left, that'll fix it five times as fast, right? |

Smoking Blunts
ZC Industries Dark Stripes
216
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 09:18:00 -
[38] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:Smoking Blunts wrote:a straight up 20% reduction in all payouts, missions, incursions, bounties, could even reduce minerals in ores by 20% too, fuckit screw everyone at the same time So leave all the same problems in place, just reduce the overall numbers by 20% ... Let's just shift the decimal place over one digit to the left, that'll fix it five times as fast, right?
its better than picking just 1 thing to reduce imo. i forgot, add 20% to all transaction taxes and npc costs in station. take more isk out while pumping less in.
plus side the rich stay rich, bad side poor are gonna be poorer. oh well CCP-áare full of words and no action. We will watch what they are doing, for now
|

Reaver Glitterstim
Resurrected Darkness
57
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 09:24:00 -
[39] - Quote
Smoking Blunts wrote:plus side the rich stay rich, bad side poor are gonna be poorer. oh well And here I was starting to think you didn't know how bad your idea was. -á"The Mittani: Hated By Badposters i'm strangely comfortable with it" -Mittens |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5772
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 09:29:00 -
[40] - Quote
Why prefer any one of them? Reduction in bounties. Incursions skewed more towards LP Blue loot made useful in industry. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |

Smoking Blunts
ZC Industries Dark Stripes
216
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 09:29:00 -
[41] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Smoking Blunts wrote:plus side the rich stay rich, bad side poor are gonna be poorer. oh well And here I was starting to think you didn't know how bad your idea was.
been playing since 05, things have never been so easy. too much reward not enough risk.
there will always be ways for poor people to get rich in eve, but it shouldnt be so easy to make 1bil+ a day. everything that has been added in the last few years has devalued isk to the point where dropping a few bil is nothing to most, it should matter.
reduce everything by at least 20% and increase all tax's and sinks by the same. work harder to make that 1bil isk. CCP-áare full of words and no action. We will watch what they are doing, for now
|

Reaver Glitterstim
Resurrected Darkness
58
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 09:40:00 -
[42] - Quote
Smoking Blunts wrote:*armchair economising*
Tell me something I don't know. You do realise that the problem isn't how easy it is to get the billion isk, but actually that the EVE economy is in a state of rapid inflation, right? The problem is that as ISK goes into the economy faster than it goes out, players will forever get richer and richer. Not only will that billion isk become easier and easier to obtain through trades, it'll become worth less and less, marginalizing all of the forms of ISK income from NPC sources, except for players with the best equipment and SP. -á"The Mittani: Hated By Badposters i'm strangely comfortable with it" -Mittens |

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
437
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 09:42:00 -
[43] - Quote
Smoking Blunts wrote:its better than picking just 1 thing to reduce imo. i forgot, add 20% to all transaction taxes and npc costs in station. take more isk out while pumping less in.
plus side the rich stay rich, bad side poor are gonna be poorer. oh well
It is not as simple as that though, it is not about picking one thing. It is about picking the right combination of things and encouraging where player's spend their time by price signals, not just simply lowering numbers arbitrarily. It may good for a laugh when your stoned, as your name implies, but it doesn't work.
And most of the rich in Eve do not need much help becoming even more rich on whatever changes CCP comes up with. They're rich for a reason, no one needs to worry about them. Tax them too much and they will create their own black market and you will be paying their taxes. |

Smoking Blunts
ZC Industries Dark Stripes
216
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 09:48:00 -
[44] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
The problem is that as ISK goes into the economy faster than it goes out, players will forever get richer and richer.
so if isk enters slower and leaves faster your ok with it? increase taxes and reduce payouts awesom CCP-áare full of words and no action. We will watch what they are doing, for now
|

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
296
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 09:57:00 -
[45] - Quote
Man, it pains me to say this, but if EVE players ran the real life economy, we'd be in even worse shape than we already are.
Nerfing ISK faucets because of some misguided drive to decrease the amount of ISK in the game would be quite an uninformed decision. Most of the faucet ISK is concentrated in the hands of a relatively small amount of people. In turn, that money is absorbed into the high-end faction, deadspace, and officer gear market.
Mineral prices are mostly affected by drop changes (see: recent module size nerfs, drone region nerfs), and bot bans. As such, the prices of minerals, and by extent all T1 goods, have remained relatively stable throughout the years. I know there's been a panic going on for the past few weeks; this sometimes happens. Still, I could buy a Brutix for the same price last January that I could in 2005. For comparison, a 2005 Vigilant cost about 9 million ISK.
What is needed isn't a flat-out nerf to ISK faucets, but a balance of the ISK faucet against other faucets, and a balance of the risk/reward system between high, low, and null sec space.
We certainly don't need the removal of all ISK generation mechanisms, as some people propose. If that were to happen, EVE would regress into a barter economy within months. |

Terminal Insanity
The Filthy Ones
410
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 10:00:00 -
[46] - Quote
Nerf bounties across the board, except for lvl1+2 mission bounties which should be slightly raised, noobs have a fairly hard time as it is. "War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP |

Reaver Glitterstim
Resurrected Darkness
58
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 10:02:00 -
[47] - Quote
Smoking Blunts wrote:so if isk enters slower and leaves faster your ok with it? There's more to it than that. The solution should fix the problem without creating new ones. If you disagree, go play ANY other MMO, where they make a habit of creating at least two problems every time they fix one. -á"The Mittani: Hated By Badposters i'm strangely comfortable with it" -Mittens |

Zowie Powers
Hole in the wall
57
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 10:07:00 -
[48] - Quote
Soundwave just looked at the raw numbers.
NPC bounty bigger than incursion bounty globally, therefore NPC bounty = bad.
Sadly he didn't divide each by the number of participants, and then ratio it off against time invested in the activity. Fortunately CCP isn't made up of one single mathematically deficient individual.
It's made up of dozens of them. |

Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
401
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 10:09:00 -
[49] - Quote
game needs more isk sinks tbh. how many sinks are there vs faucets? [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |

Smoking Blunts
ZC Industries Dark Stripes
216
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 10:10:00 -
[50] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Smoking Blunts wrote:so if isk enters slower and leaves faster your ok with it? There's more to it than that. The solution should fix the problem without creating new ones. If you disagree, go play ANY other MMO, where they make a habit of creating at least two problems every time they fix one.
never played anyother MMO, so i can only talk about what ive seen in eve. and over the last few years its got way way to easy to make isk.
everything thats been added (q20 lv4 agents, incursions, anoms) in the last few years has dramaticly increased the isk avalible to players. and they have rightly milked every cent they could from them, but that volume has to be reduced. while im an advoacte for reducing raw isk payouts, that should be combined with larger lp payouts. could even add lp payouts to anoms for an added sink.
add larger tax sinks and balance in a few months if needed. CCP-áare full of words and no action. We will watch what they are doing, for now
|

Reaver Glitterstim
Resurrected Darkness
58
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 10:16:00 -
[51] - Quote
Smoking Blunts wrote:and over the last few years its got way way to easy to make isk. I disagree. While I can agree that certain forms of ISK income are too easy in comparison to others, I think that a healthy increase in ISK generation should accompany any newer, better, and badder struggles against NPCs (high class sleeper anomalies, incursions). The problem isn't that the isk is to easy to get, it's that there's nothing to spend it on. You need bigger and badder ships to run those newer sites anyway, sometimes stuff that wasn't even available a few years ago. -á"The Mittani: Hated By Badposters i'm strangely comfortable with it" -Mittens |

Smoking Blunts
ZC Industries Dark Stripes
216
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 10:26:00 -
[52] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Smoking Blunts wrote:and over the last few years its got way way to easy to make isk. I disagree. While I can agree that certain forms of ISK income are too easy in comparison to others, I think that a healthy increase in ISK generation should accompany any newer, better, and badder struggles against NPCs (high class sleeper anomalies, incursions). The problem isn't that the isk is to easy to get, it's that there's nothing to spend it on. You need bigger and badder ships to run those newer sites anyway, sometimes stuff that wasn't even available a few years ago.
incursions and sleepers are not hard anymore, yet pump billions out daily(npc buy orders of sleeper poo being the faucet) only thing that wasnt avalible back then were t3's . not having stuff to spend isk on is not a reason to keep a faucet in place
incursions should be swapped to lp only imo. ive ran incursions and i know fully what you can make and its far to much. anoms could do with lp payouts and a reduction in isk also, mind on a per system base they pay out way less than incursions, you cant get 40-80 people in 1 0.0 system making 80-100m/h, with anoms anymore than 6 in a system screws your isk/h. CCP-áare full of words and no action. We will watch what they are doing, for now
|

Shadowsword
The Scope Gallente Federation
116
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 10:45:00 -
[53] - Quote
Invent some new useful consumables (implants? drugs? fueled enhanced armor/shield hardeners?), change incursion payouts from isks to materials needed to manufacture those cunsomables. Inflation problem solved. |

MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
202
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 14:44:00 -
[54] - Quote
so everybody is ok with lower bounties...?
and more isk sinks as well? |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5774
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 15:02:00 -
[55] - Quote
Grimpak wrote:game needs more isk sinks tbh. how many sinks are there vs faucets? Faucets:- NPC bounties
- NPC buy orders
- Agent rewards: Mission rewards, Mission time bonuses, Incursion rewards
- Insurance payout
- GM actions: Reimbursement for lost pods
- Character creation
Sinks:- Market taxes & fees: Broker fees, Sales tax
- NPC sell orders
- NPC station services: Repairs, Jump clone installation, Medical clone installation/upgrade/station change, Science and industry slot rental, Ship insurance
- NPC station office fees: Rent, Impound penalties
- Wardecs
- Sovereignty fees
- PI fees: Building PI structures, Import/export tax (from NPC-owned customs offices)
- Corp & alliance fees: Corp creation, Alliance creation, Alliance upkeep, Creating/awarding medals, Corp registry ads
- Agent fees: (Certain) LP store items, Locator agent services, Courier missions w/ deposits
- CSPA Charges
- Smuggling fines
- GM Actions: Removal of bought ISK, Removal of insurance after ship reimbursement
- Character deletion
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |

Skex Relbore
Space Exploitation Inc
147
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 15:13:00 -
[56] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:Let the drone drop change and prices run thier course and see where things land. If mining becomes more valuable than shooting rats, the monetary expansion will slow down.
^^ the only good comment in this thread^^
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Reaver Glitterstim
Resurrected Darkness
60
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 16:51:00 -
[57] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Grimpak wrote:game needs more isk sinks tbh. how many sinks are there vs faucets? *list of sinks and faucets* That's a pretty good list, and if you ponder a moment and think about how big each of these is, it really puts it into perspective. Well that pretty much explains the ISK flood.
Here, let me explain. When you make a list of the approximate value each faucet and sink has on an average pilot, you see that the problem isn't runaway isk faucets, it's a general lack of isk sinks. Here's approximately what each has been worth to me over the course of my entire career in EVE:
Faucets: NPC bounties - 1,000,000,000 - 1,500,000,000 NPC buy orders - 5,000,000 - 20,000,000 Agent rewards: Mission rewards, Mission time bonuses, Incursion rewards - 150,000,000 - 250,000,000 Insurance payout - ~100,000,000 GM actions: Reimbursement for lost pods - none (I've only been reimbursed in goods, never ISK) Character creation - ~600,000
Sinks: Market taxes & fees: Broker fees, Sales tax - 15,000,000 - 25,000,000 NPC sell orders - ~400,000,000 (mostly skillbooks) NPC station services: Repairs, Jump clone installation, Medical clone installation/upgrade/station change, Science and industry slot rental, Ship insurance - 50,000,000 - 100,000,000 NPC station office fees: Rent, Impound penalties - none (I don't keep my goods in offices so I don't know what that's like) Wardecs - 10,000,000 Sovereignty fees - ~25,000,000 PI fees: Building PI structures, Import/export tax (from NPC-owned customs offices) - 20,000,000 - 30,000,000 Corp & alliance fees: Corp creation, Alliance creation, Alliance upkeep, Creating/awarding medals, Corp registry ads - 25,000,000 - 50,000,000 Agent fees: (Certain) LP store items, Locator agent services, Courier missions w/ deposits - ~15,000,000 CSPA Charges - 750,000 - 1,500,000 Smuggling fines - ~100,000 GM Actions: Removal of bought ISK, Removal of insurance after ship reimbursement - ~10,000,000 (a Prophecy) Character deletion - ~25,000
If you make that into a chart of faucets vs. sinks, it'll look something like this: Faucets: |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Sinks: ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Now take into consideration that I've never run incursions or high-class sleeper sites, or even very many nullsec anomalies for that matter. Once I get into that in the next year or so, my graph will probably look like this: Faucets: ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Sinks: ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
There now I made it visual, thanks in part to Tippia.
Skex Relbore wrote:Adunh Slavy wrote:Let the drone drop change and prices run thier course and see where things land. If mining becomes more valuable than shooting rats, the monetary expansion will slow down. ^^ the only good comment in this thread^^ That's why we don't take you seriously, my friend. -á"The Mittani: Hated By Badposters i'm strangely comfortable with it" -Mittens |

Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
561
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 22:02:00 -
[58] - Quote
Change the incursion site completion to "destroy all ships" instead of "hit all the triggers"
Change rat rewards from ISK AND sec status gain to ISK OR sec status gain. You choose which you want. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |

Large Collidable Object
morons.
1223
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 22:05:00 -
[59] - Quote
Remove Insurance entirely. Switch incursions to LP payouts only. morons- sting like a butterfly and-ápost like a bee. |

FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1180
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 22:09:00 -
[60] - Quote
Isk faucet fixes, in order of priority:
- More isk sinks. I don't care what, just more ways for isk to be removed from the system.
- Make missions more dynamic so they are harder for bots to complete. Even slowing them down would do quite a bit.
- Reduce bounties across the board. This is especially crucial if drones go to bounties.
- Make incursion vanguard farming unprofitable over time in a way that encourages the destruction of the mothership.
- Possibly reduce the Sleeper loot NPC prices and/or drop rate.
It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |

Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
174
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 22:12:00 -
[61] - Quote
Can't say.
I am sure there are some that are exploiting it but question comes down to the majority. 0.0 is built around destroying ships and getting them destroyed. There has to be a effective method for the average player to keep themselves fitted in a ship.
All I can say is I hope CCP takes a real close look before implementing. |

FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1180
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 22:13:00 -
[62] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Change rat rewards from ISK AND sec status gain to ISK OR sec status gain. You choose which you want.
I'm not sure how this would work on the current system. Would you give up the bounties on all the rats you kill in a system in order to get the sec status boost from one of them?
How about this: whichever rat you get the sec boost from, you don't get any bounty. That way people who rat whole systems still get paid for all the EXTRA rats they kill, but the guys just looking to recover sec so they can go back to piracy wouldn't get paid for status repair. It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |

Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
401
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 01:20:00 -
[63] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Tippia wrote:Grimpak wrote:game needs more isk sinks tbh. how many sinks are there vs faucets? *list of sinks and faucets* That's a pretty good list, and if you ponder a moment and think about how big each of these is, it really puts it into perspective. Well that pretty much explains the ISK flood. Here, let me explain. When you make a list of the approximate value each faucet and sink has on an average pilot, you see that the problem isn't runaway isk faucets, it's a general lack of isk sinks. Here's approximately what each has been worth to me over the course of my entire career in EVE: Faucets: NPC bounties - 1,000,000,000 - 1,500,000,000NPC buy orders - 5,000,000 - 20,000,000 Agent rewards: Mission rewards, Mission time bonuses, Incursion rewards - 150,000,000 - 250,000,000 Insurance payout - ~100,000,000 GM actions: Reimbursement for lost pods - none (I've only been reimbursed in goods, never ISK) Character creation - ~600,000 Sinks: Market taxes & fees: Broker fees, Sales tax - 15,000,000 - 25,000,000 NPC sell orders - ~400,000,000 (mostly skillbooks)NPC station services: Repairs, Jump clone installation, Medical clone installation/upgrade/station change, Science and industry slot rental, Ship insurance - 50,000,000 - 100,000,000 NPC station office fees: Rent, Impound penalties - none (I don't keep my goods in offices so I don't know what that's like) Wardecs - 10,000,000 Sovereignty fees - ~25,000,000 PI fees: Building PI structures, Import/export tax (from NPC-owned customs offices) - 20,000,000 - 30,000,000 Corp & alliance fees: Corp creation, Alliance creation, Alliance upkeep, Creating/awarding medals, Corp registry ads - 25,000,000 - 50,000,000 Agent fees: (Certain) LP store items, Locator agent services, Courier missions w/ deposits - ~15,000,000 CSPA Charges - 750,000 - 1,500,000 Smuggling fines - ~100,000 GM Actions: Removal of bought ISK, Removal of insurance after ship reimbursement - ~10,000,000 (a Prophecy) Character deletion - ~25,000 If you make that into a chart of faucets vs. sinks, it'll look something like this: Faucets: |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Sinks: |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Now take into consideration that I've never run incursions or high-class sleeper sites, or even very many nullsec anomalies for that matter. Once I get into that in the next year or so, my graph will probably look like this: Faucets: ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Sinks: |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| There now I made it visual, thanks in part to Tippia.
then before touching on the faucets, one should increase the sinks. not in quantity, but the "quality". for example, office fees and agent fees. one should start on these ones first, then climb up from there. afterwards, if you're not happy with the result, then you can start touching on the faucets. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |

OfBalance
Caldari State
256
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 01:25:00 -
[64] - Quote
All of them. |
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