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Xultanis
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Posted - 2008.09.06 08:04:00 -
[1]
*sigh*.....The past couple of months I have noticed a decline in the general direction of our EvE community. Now while some things haven been for the better. I fear that our world is in trouble. Please Read this and consider what I say objectively and not "only" from your own view. Try to, when you think of your own situations think of the ramifications your choices have made to others, even if it was beneficial towards you. (Pirating, cheating....whatever)
(This is going to be a lot)
Eve is in the state of it trying to better itself. Developers trying new things out, while implementing ideas from either themselves, the CSM, or even the EvE Pilots. Even though good intentions are always meant for good outcomes, they are usually met with disastrous results. I am talking mainly about the financial stability of EvE.
What is the basis of financial stability? That is supply and demand. Even though the EvE economy is on the rise with new players, it is in a inflation due to over population. Yes I know, how can EvE such a huge and vast environment be overpopulated with only 30k players at any given time. The ratio to supply and demand can not be met equally. Everyone is saying how mission runners are getting their ISK too easily while flooding the market with resources reprocessed from loot, or T1 mods. Miners have a problem in the end just trying to find a stable mining market to use to supply their business.
The demand is not high enough to meet the supply that is given to the player by EvE. Asteroids are being mined out almost immediately after they have respawned. From either actual miners, actual miners with alt accounts, or by the infamous macrominer. The same goes for mission runners. I know a few mission runners that don't even bother to loot their missions (I especially) for the soul purpose that while in a L4 mission, you don't have the speed nor the patience to loot everything thats within a 50km radius from you in every direction. Now some people do and can, either because they are dedicated enough to go get a different ship after doing the mission or because they have an alt account doing the looting for them, or again the infamous ninja that does everything while your busy.
Now we must understand that a majority, and I mean probably 80 to 90 percent, of feedback is from players angry at others. So now their judgment is impaired and their anger is aimed at another players success. Something that takes a person a year or more to train for in EvE is now nerfed because a player base was formed of new players that didn't understand that you need to put the time in for something worth while. But I hope this turns into a respectful argument from out EvE community.
How can we fix Supply and Demand? Well that's easy. How does any country make to where demand runs high for a supply of something? That is war ladies and gentlemen. Yes war, fighting, destroying of peoples ships and items. Low sec has all of the demand in the world WHY, because people are fighting over territory so supply is in high demand to fuel this ambition.
I do understand that EvE is brought on the idea of the "Becareful or you could lose everything you worked for." It is this concept causing the inflation. People are afriad of losing what they have in fear of never getting it back. 500m in implants, 100m to 500m ship with an extra 200m in mods and drones. To secure that kind of money would take a while for any high sec person. Low sec populace is probably a days worth of gathering.
In the next post I make in this topic I will suggest somethings to get things......going. "Introduce a little anarchyàupset the established orderàand everything becomes chaos. IÆm an agent of chaos." Quote from Heath Ledger character the Joker from TDK |
Xultanis
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Posted - 2008.09.06 08:28:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Xultanis on 06/09/2008 08:31:28
Now lets fix the problem with Macrominers while introducing demand for supply. Why not make miners criminals after so much ore from a region is mined, constellation, or even solar system. After so much m3 is mined into one ship the person becomes flagged. Lets face it. If all that mining was real and asteroids never respawned it would be a criminal act to mine something protected correct? Which we could do. This would keep miners having to move or if they are willing enough, they could have some company to keep them safe from harm. How to actually regulate this is still toiling around in my head. How much ore is too much, when does it become a problem from the miner?
How do we keep supply high enough to meet demand without killing the supply. If miners are flagged it would honestly get rid of macrominers. How you ask because they could just program to go somewhere else? AH yes but how far is somewhere else. If we did region it would be too far for them to fly and it would slow down mining considerably for them. Almost completely ruining the market all together. This wouldnt be a problem for rookie pilots since they probably can't mine that much that fast anyways. Also giving a range of people a chance to mine.
Also to help the demand with the supply. We have to make sure people can fill their demand reasonably due to losing more stuff now. How about increasing the yield and number of each asteroid in the belts. Since now people will be flagged this will give a lot more other people a chance to mine.
I want this to work even with people who like to solo mine. So the flagging issue is a consequence to the events at large. How to regulate I'll leave to suggestions. I really don't want people to have to go here and there to mine, even though this does bring more grouped base mining for people, using miners with haulers, going from system to system. Giving bonus' to haulers when they carry only asteroid ore. So that people can go from belt to belt in different systems without having to stop as much. This will in turn bring out more miners to the game since their is now a steady market because only an actual person who can call themselves a miner can follow it.
Again increases demand by introducing the possibility of destroying the ship. Will add more to this later, this is just a rough draft for people to read.
Lets start with the basic life expectancy of a character in EvE. Unless stupid, a character will keep their ship for a LONG time. They avoid things like roaches to light. Why not make the consequences of losing stuff more light. Still keep it severe but manageable. We have insurance for ships. Why not have insurances for some more. How about letting people have more than one clone. (add skill books here) with the clone comes their implants. (again skill books here). Since people will still be worried about losing their items due to the price (make it reasonable) demand for ships and items goes up do to the lose of items and ships. Lower the value to go to War. But while a corp is in War, insurance to their ships, clones, and implants is reduced.
Even though I am a big fan of "shut the hell up, this is EvE and if you want to whine and cry, go play WoW." I mean hell that's why I joined was because of the freedom of choice you have in this game. I don't want that taken away.
But I want this game to work. Things cost too much as it is. Decrease the number of resources needed to build stuff. This will cause more people to be able to lose it and just say "screw you" and work towards another one.
Well its late and this is a rough draft of what I wanted to say. Please understand how much I like this game. I want things to work but with all things. To make things work you have to do what joker says "Introduce a little anarchyàupset the established orderàand everything becomes chaos."
Whats wrong with chaos, its what fuels the stock market :)
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Arithron
Gallente
Gallente Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.06 10:47:00 -
[3]
 Quote:
The demand is not high enough to meet the supply that is given to the player by EvE. Asteroids are being mined out almost immediately after they have respawned.
Don't you mean the supply isn't high enough to meet the demand?
Is your post a PT?
I can't agree with much that you have written. Nerfing mining by making them able to get flagged (and thus destroyed) will lower the amount of minerals making it to market, hence forcing up prices (not sure what you want to happen to prices exactly from your post). The cost of items on the markets is low; invention has pushed down many T2 items considerably. If you played a year ago, you'd have noticed this.
Flagging miners just makes mining that much harder...having to move the ship from the sysytem/region etc to mine again would be a right pain. Anyway, how would you track it? I could mine, get to near the flag limit, warp and dump at a station, and return to mining. Flagging is an unworkable solution really. Asteroids shouldn't be protected...they are lumps of rock that happen to have minerals in them.
Eve has competition on its market. Sure, you can find some small price spikes etc as Market Pvpers do their thing. But, overall, undercutting and below-cost selling happens which brings prices down...
There already is more warfare happening of late: Its called factional warfare, go and try it out ;)
Take care,
Arithron
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venus divine
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Posted - 2008.09.06 11:56:00 -
[4]
argh, stupid ideas and even more stupid reading..
U really didnt think enough before posting..and u are missing few clues on how economy works..
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Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.09.06 15:01:00 -
[5]
Your solution to "inflation" is to make mining a criminal activity? I sincerely hope you don't vote - and I don't mean for the CSM, I mean in real life.
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Fix the forums! |
Phoenix493
Orion Expeditions
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Posted - 2008.09.06 19:59:00 -
[6]
Lets outlaw mining...
Ok, so we can do the following:
1) Increase the cost of Modules.
2) Increase the cost of Ships.
3) Decrease the avaliability of modules.
4) Decrease the avaliability of Ships.
5) Decrease Lag in Jita...wait..what?
6) Remove an "entry Point" for Pirates (I'm on about can flipping)
7) Remove Cap Ships from the game (No fuel - as thats mined. No Ships, as the mins to produce them are mined...)
8) Remove mission runners, as they won't have any ships / ammo to use
9) Remove Pirates, (see note 8)
I think i could go on...but I'm bored.
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Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.09.06 20:05:00 -
[7]
Here is an idea for CSM to really garner from this thread; Ban the OP from ever posting in the Assembly Hall again, cause he just doesnt get it at all.
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Drake Draconis
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Posted - 2008.09.06 20:09:00 -
[8]
Xutanis - Do you even bother to research or consider what pilots are saynig or did you just start flapping your gums?
I mean.... at least bother to do your research before you spout stuff off!
/me thumbs down
Talk about irrationality with eloquence.
And i hate to break it to you... inflation is pretty low on the list of problems that need to be resolved.
I can think of much worse things.. as I can imagine everyone else can as well.
And criminalizing mining is just flat ******ed.
Macro-miners should be banned.. yes... but that's as far as it goes.
Miners who bother to sit there and grind away for 2 hours straight or more deserve the fruits of there labors... if that guy sits there all day and eats up an belt's worth of rock then he deserves that as well.
Its called first come first serve.... so long as they are still there actively communicating and present.
Macro-miners script it up and walk away... that's called cheating.
Some people work hard to get what they want....
Thats just 1 of thousands of issues i have with your so called proposal.
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Mara Devortex
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Posted - 2008.09.06 20:30:00 -
[9]
Hmm solve inflation by creating inflation..hmmm. Look its upto to players to report macro miners..and its upto CCP to ban em..i see no real problems buying ships and stuff in Emp[ire..and STFU about mission runners..they have to contend with thieves and griefers just like anyone else..and um i sell the mods i bring home...unless i realy need the mega zyd etc.so thats contributing to bringing down the price by meeting demand..which is exactly what we need..not some poorly written OP by someone who would prolly benefit more from inflation
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Lia Gaeren
Caldari
Pole Dancing Vixens
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Posted - 2008.09.07 15:49:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Phoenix493
...
6) Remove an "entry Point" for Pirates (I'm on about can flipping)
...
No no no... they will still have an entry point - they can mine to get their law-breaking jollies
But would that mean it would be entirely lawful to can flip the renegade miners, or would you just count as an accomplice to the heineous crime of setting laser to rock? 
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Silvana Kor'ah
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Posted - 2008.09.08 06:00:00 -
[11]
rofl @ OP
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Amy Wang
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Posted - 2008.09.08 11:05:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Amy Wang on 08/09/2008 11:05:53
Not a miner myself but how about cutting base mining yield and adding some kind of mining related mini-game that increases your output above current rates but requires the miner to be active at the keyboard if he wants to profit from it?
That would make mining more entertaining and macro and afk mining less viable.
Ofc it would just increase the amount of macro-ratters as well but that is nothing that a simple fix of cloaks on non-cloaking ships and giving shooting and npc an agression timer couldnt fix 
What the mini game could be I dont really know, maybe something where you get a 3d image of a roid and have to pick the areas with bonus ores to mine from, mining from other areas gives less yield and also makes the roid collapse faster before you can get to the good areas. Also requiring to cutting a path into the roid using the mining laser to reach pockets with especially good ore could be included or maybe something entirely different and more entertaining?
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.09.08 11:29:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Xultanis
Now lets fix the problem with Macrominers while introducing demand for supply. Why not make miners criminals after so much ore from a region is mined, constellation, or even solar system. After so much m3 is mined into one ship the person becomes flagged. Lets face it. If all that mining was real and asteroids never respawned it would be a criminal act to mine something protected correct? Which we could do. This would keep miners having to move or if they are willing enough, they could have some company to keep them safe from harm. How to actually regulate this is still toiling around in my head. How much ore is too much, when does it become a problem from the miner?
How do we keep supply high enough to meet demand without killing the supply. If miners are flagged it would honestly get rid of macrominers. How you ask because they could just program to go somewhere else? AH yes but how far is somewhere else. If we did region it would be too far for them to fly and it would slow down mining considerably for them. Almost completely ruining the market all together. This wouldnt be a problem for rookie pilots since they probably can't mine that much that fast anyways. Also giving a range of people a chance to mine.
First your recipe is the way of rampant inflation: reduce the materials/items produced without reducing the isk inflow is the step to make inflation terrific even for T1 items.
Second: macrominers will simply have 3 mining alts on the same account, when one of them has filled his quota they switch to another character.
Instead regular players have normally 1 mining character for account and will be the one getting the impact of your idea.
So a strong no vote.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.09.08 11:32:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Amy Wang
Not a miner myself but how about cutting base mining yield and adding some kind of mining related mini-game that increases your output above current rates but requires the miner to be active at the keyboard if he wants to profit from it?
That would make mining more entertaining and macro and afk mining less viable.
Ofc it would just increase the amount of macro-ratters as well but that is nothing that a simple fix of cloaks on non-cloaking ships and giving shooting and npc an agression timer couldnt fix
What the mini game could be I dont really know, maybe something where you get a 3d image of a roid and have to pick the areas with bonus ores to mine from, mining from other areas gives less yield and also makes the roid collapse faster before you can get to the good areas. Also requiring to cutting a path into the roid using the mining laser to reach pockets with especially good ore could be included or maybe something entirely different and more entertaining?
Kids and mini games . No thanks.
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Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2008.09.08 11:39:00 -
[15]
You did not hit your head hard enough ...
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