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Kosume Ike Amarr GoldenWind	Posted - 2008.09.08 02:09:00 - [31] Subchaos, I have to desagee with you, both on your premis and on how you try to support them using this war as an example. Originally by: Subchaos 1) PvP is insainely costly 2) Despite what people say about new characters can help a war by "specializing", the fact is that as new player they are severely handicaped 3) While in theory people claim battles can be done in frigs & cruisers, it seems that anyone who depends upon them in a practice quickly finds it is a losing endeavor. 1) some pvp is, some pvp is not 2)new characters CAN help by "specializing" 3)figting a war in frigats while essentialy free is not effective but fighting it in cruisers is cheap and functional. Originally by: Subchaos So what were those 10 players typically using? ... Was this a war of many small ships vs a few giants which would unfortunately reinforce the theory that "unless you have the big toys don't play in the sandbox" theory? ... did just 10 guys use exemplary strategy, tactics, & communication... You ask lots of questions and try to "draw" a conclusion that you have already reached. However there are actualy answers to those questions on that very same kill board. For example this is one of those 10 "super humans" http://repo.griefwatch.net/?p=pilot&pilot=Rocco%20Bellini note the ships flown, number 1 thorax, number 2 myrmidon, number 3 huricane. So the top 3 ships he flies are... thats right, t1 cruisers and batlecruisers. If you are in fact a worried new player you need to stop looking at price tags of t2, learn to fit and fly t1 cruisers well and start looking for a good group of people to fly with. As for repo they are not the best pvpers in eve but they do nothing but empire wars and have been doing it for years, of cause they are not bad at it.
Kirra Liu Echelon Holdings Echelon.	Posted - 2008.09.08 02:24:00 - [32] Wait.. So if someone wants lots of war targets to play with in empire all they would have to do is say things like "Yo mommaÆs so fat, that when she went on a scale, it reads To Infinity and Beyond!", to some REPO and then the war dec is straight in the mail, and it cost's you nothin, apart from ships ofcourse? Sweet
Kosume Ike Amarr GoldenWind	Posted - 2008.09.08 02:51:00 - [33] getting someone to war deck you has never been a problem in eve :)
The PitBoss Caldari Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.08 02:57:00 - [34] Originally by: Kosume Ike getting someone to war deck you has never been a problem in eve :) Someone call? Thanks, PB Siggys and Banners by: Kalen Vox
Frontenac	Posted - 2008.09.08 03:46:00 - [35] Respect! REPO - you guys are a solid outfit This war was immeasurably valuable in combat experience for our younger pilots.
Pingers	Posted - 2008.09.08 03:47:00 - [36] Was a good, fun war. Props to my corp mates n props to r.e.p.o for a well fought war.
Colo Laskin Stormfront B.O.A. Stormfront J.U.N.T.A.	Posted - 2008.09.08 04:00:00 - [37] O7 good fights, much respect to RiflemanDodd. Our long chase from the AU gate was fun even if I lost.
Izo Alabaster Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.09.08 04:41:00 - [38] Originally by: Subchaos Edited by: Subchaos on 07/09/2008 18:24:32 1) PvP is insanely costly 2) Despite what people say about new characters can help a war by "specializing", the fact is that as new player they are severely handicapped 3) While in theory people claim battles can be done in frigs & cruisers, it seems that anyone who depends upon them in a practice quickly finds it is a losing endeavor. 1: Depends on how much you want to let it cost you. 50 or so of my kills on SF Junta were in an unrigged battlecruiser; hardly an unattainable ship. Fully fitted, I don't think it cost 60-80 mill at the most, so it's not like a super expensive ship was the key to victory, at least in the fights that I took part in. So no, it's not too bad a lot of the time, but if you can't afford to lose it, don't undock it. Some good pvp can be had in tech 1 cruisers. 2: Sure, they're handicapped. I wouldn't have it any other way. Learn the game mechanics, get skillpoints, and the new char will catch up soon enough. A player who's a few months old but has an excellent knowledge of game mechanics, can in fact go up against a much older player who doesn't know the game mechanics as well, and be victorious. 3: You seem to be under the impression that SF Junta only flew frigates, which is incorrect. They brought a wide variety of ships including recon ships, battleships, HACs, and it's rumored they even had a command ship or two waiting in the wings. It only takes 1 frigate to prevent a battleship from warping off, and one other properly fitted frigate to negate 85% of his damage, so frigs are far from useless if flown and fitted properly. Furthermore, they did often outnumber us, so bringing anything larger than a frigate to the fight might have forced us to disengage and come back with more numbers or larger ships, forcing an arms race which would be boring, uneventful, and would culminate in us being forced to camp them in station with 10 battleships. Who wants to camp a station? Nobody. SF Junta seems to enjoy a good fight as much as we do and by sticking mostly to smaller ships, they helped keep the combat fast paced and exciting. Finally, each frigate they lost was a valuable learning experience for the pilot. I think they realized that spending half a mill for a frigate that you lose in a fight with some (some would say I'm being too generous) decent PVP pilots such as ourselves, is a small price to pay for the learning experience.
Yordadi	Posted - 2008.09.08 04:55:00 - [39] Edited by: Yordadi on 08/09/2008 04:58:52 Thanks for the training REPO. As one of the newb pilots I gotta say it was worth every isk in losses and settlement. I had a blast and learned a lot. To be honest I was kinda sad to hear it's over. Maybe we can do it again sometime. ETA: Forgot to check my settings before my first; CA Libertarian is my main in case you were wondering.
Tribalize	Posted - 2008.09.08 04:59:00 - [40] I Must Say It Was A Good Fight The Ones I Was In... Props To Repo...You Put Up A Hard Target...Especially For A New Corp... Props To Junta For Always Trying To Push Forward...Great Job Guys... I Wont Miss The Gate Camps In Lit... Some Great Experience For A New Corp... Ive Learned More Within The Last Month Than I Have So Far In Game... Thanks For That Repo

Riflemandodd	Posted - 2008.09.08 05:01:00 - [41] indeed colo, was a good chase. many good fights to be had with JUNTA during the war. you guys got noticably better over the month also. my tag is probably screwed but yes, if you're wondering, i am REPO. now where is my beer...
Daxs Caldari Stormfront B.O.A.	Posted - 2008.09.08 08:19:00 - [42] Sincerest thanks to R.E.P.O for some rather awesome first hand instruction on tactics, ship loadouts and a great PVP experience. When I first started all they had to do was look at me and my ship went pop, now... It took them a few minutes to pop my Myrm and they had to call in some bigger guns, but even that experience made me smile. I'm not at the level of a great pvper, but I know the experience they've imparted to all of us has gone a long way and improved our skills amd knowledge greatly. 07 to you all. Thanks again. Respectfully, Daxs Quote: "I know that code. It is a good one. It is dangerous, though... A man like Druss can live by it, because he's like a tempest, raw, fierce, and unstoppable. We mortals, though, may need to be more circumspect. Holding to firmly to Druss's Code would kill us." ---White Wolf (DG) Disclaimer: Previous political affiliations with corps and or alliances are severed forthwith to promote an unbiased relationship to all corporations in Eve. At no time will any information or previous knowledge of Aforementioned political affiliations be sold, bartered for, and or coerced regarding tactics, strategies, Membership, armament, forum access, or any other game play issues that might influence the political affiliation of this corporation.
Greorik Stormfront J.U.N.T.A.	Posted - 2008.09.08 12:49:00 - [43] I just started the game and basically i am right into a war. Repo thanks for being good sports about the entire thing. It was a lot of fun and i learned far more this month for pvp then i think i could have in a year.
Subchaos Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.09.08 16:12:00 - [44] I appreciate the responses from those who maintained their composure & answered the questions in a straightforward manner rather than take the low road dismissing it. For a new player, the PvE aspects of EVE has a steep learning curve, whereas the PvP mechanics are on an exponential level all on its own. Mistakes in the PvP realm are not just in isk but also in time. For instance, I found out about EVEMon, downloaded it & ran several "what-if" scenarios. The cost in isk for the required skills was enormous & the time to finish even some of the most basic, streamlined and extremely specialized skill sets for a new player was in months. This is saying that I continually have the isk to buy the books before needed as well as never miss a single skill update while training 24x7. If anyone of those (isk, books, update) are delayed it moves that entire timeline back even further. More importantly, without actually having any PvP experience in EVE, I am at a loss for what is & what isn't viable. This could translate into literally spending months of training & isk unecessarily because of a misperception. When I first came across this thread, I didn't think much about because I've not played EVE long enough to be enthralled by the politics between any corps/alliances. However, when I saw those links detailing the cost in isk & the KvD plus the odd looking losses it struck a cord. Not only was I now interested, but thought here is a war which could shed some light on the effectiveness (or ineffectiveness) of smaller ships in a much larger conflict. For a new player, to be able to know what a minimum, yet, realistic target goal for ship type & skills are needed to be an effective addition to a war is critical. No disrespect to either side was intended, if taken. VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV >Beware the chaos below the surface< ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Izo Alabaster Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.09.08 16:48:00 - [45] Originally by: Subchaos For a new player, to be able to know what a minimum, yet, realistic target goal for ship type & skills are needed to be an effective addition to a war is critical. Get learning skills up. Learn what fittings do and do not work on assault frigates and interceptors. Learn to fly those ships well. ???? PROFIT!
My'kel An'jelo Amarr Synthetic Frontiers	Posted - 2008.09.08 18:38:00 - [46] Impressed to see the JUNTA guys taking this loss so well, props guys.
Torrstar Stormfront B.O.A. Stormfront J.U.N.T.A.	Posted - 2008.09.08 19:30:00 - [47] Originally by: Subchaos More importantly, without actually having any PvP experience in EVE, I am at a loss for what is & what isn't viable. This could translate into literally spending months of training & isk necessarily because of a misperception. However, when I saw those links detailing the cost in isk & the KvD plus the odd looking losses it struck a cord. Not only was I now interested, but thought here is a war which could shed some light on the effectiveness (or ineffectiveness) of smaller ships in a much larger conflict. For a new player, to be able to know what a minimum, yet, realistic target goal for ship type & skills are needed to be an effective addition to a war is critical. EVE's a complicated game to be sure, and you'll need to master all 3 sides of the triad (PVP,Industry,Diplomacy) to get the most of out of it. The good news, is that with a little patience and perseverance, you can. However, this isn't the thread for such a discussion, so if you'd like to talk in game sometime feel free to send me a tell. (normally on in evening, US Eastern time)
Krall Havoc THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2008.09.08 20:31:00 - [48] Edited by: Krall Havoc on 08/09/2008 20:32:41 Originally by: Subchaos ...For instance, I found out about EVEMon, downloaded it & ran several "what-if" scenarios. The cost in isk for the required skills was enormous & the time to finish even some of the most basic, streamlined and extremely specialized skill sets for a new player was in months. This is saying that I continually have the isk to buy the books before needed as well as never miss a single skill update while training 24x7. If anyone of those (isk, books, update) are delayed it moves that entire timeline back even further. ...For a new player, to be able to know what a minimum, yet, realistic target goal for ship type & skills are needed to be an effective addition to a war is critical.... For a new player, find a like minded corp/militia train a blackbird -> either Scorpion or Falcon and have fun. Thats the quickest way to become a useful gang member. As for the ISK issue, I'd suggest working on missions. While they aren't the quickest way to become the next billionaire, it will give you a good grasp of the industry side of the game. Remember Time is the limiting variable in EvE, not ISK. On Topic... Seems like there was some good fighting, something to be said for corps handling themselves in a upstanding manner.
Jezala Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.09.08 22:53:00 - [49] Edited by: Jezala on 08/09/2008 22:53:07 It was a good war guys. I'm absolutely positive that JUNTA walked away with a lot of learning experiences, and it showed as the war progressed. Also, JUNTA wasn't the only one to get some good lessons learned for all of this. This war made REPO try new tactics and refine some older ones that we haven't had to use in a long while. For those of you guys that stood with Stormfront JUNTA till the end, my hat is off to you all. As it is, I'd like to invite you guys onto our vent server for an evening to shoot the shit with us and to do a recap of the entire war. I'm sure both sides will have some interesting insights to share as well as some hilarious stories to tell. Contact Hans Gates and we'll set up a date. Fly safe all.
Political Prisoner Amarr Hedion University	Posted - 2008.09.09 00:15:00 - [50] Edited by: Political Prisoner on 09/09/2008 00:17:14 / R.E.P.O. - J.U.N.T.A. 'love-fest' Next time FORGET the war dec ... just get a hotel room Respectfully, Political Prisoner

Rinai Vero Stormfront B.O.A. Stormfront J.U.N.T.A.	Posted - 2008.09.09 00:45:00 - [51] Originally by: My'kel An'jelo Impressed to see the JUNTA guys taking this loss so well, props guys. For those of us who stuck it out, I don't think anybody considers themselves a "loser" after this deal. What we gained was a month of PvP with some very effective fighters that instilled not only lessons on the harsh reality of EVE War, but honed our tactics, strategy, leadership ability, instincts, and most of all esprit de corps. What we lost was just ISK, and I can't think of a better way to spend it than having that much fun. The only losers are the ones that let having ships popped ruin their fun in the game enough to drop from the corp and hide. One day they're gonna figure out that in EVE you can't hide forever. Props to REPO, you guys always fought well. Now that our killboard finally works for me its time to put up my many losses, but I don't regret a single one.
White Chasm Caldari Blood In Blood Out	Posted - 2008.09.09 02:51:00 - [52] Trolls; you can smack all you want about REPO, this thread is chock full of good sports. Take your own advice and grow a spine, by posting with your mains. Or is your industrial corp not as mouthy and as full of unwarranted arrogance as you are? It's a good thing to see these guys taking this game so cordially. It literally warms my heart; I guess all internet warriors aren't childish ADHD brats after all! _________________ Originally by: CCP Mitnal Although it's comforting to note that the majority of pirates will be remaining single for the foreseeable future.
Sombike Caldari Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.09.09 10:50:00 - [53] We might have killed a lot of u, but in the end it still looks like 40 losses on ur side = 1 loss on our side :P Good management from Junta CEOs for not leting bigger ships out :) Good Fights ...
CSMotherload Caldari Stormfront A.W. Stormfront J.U.N.T.A.	Posted - 2008.09.09 12:27:00 - [54] At first i was hiding from this war. and then i got killed got ****ed then got fitted. i wasnt in many encounters becuase i didnt play during Junta Primetime (third shifter play in the mornings) but the encounters i did get in i learned quite alot. I refused to fly anything but my Drake and becuase of that. each time i encountered i refited my Drake and tried again. learning each time what worked and didnt work. was a very big learning experience REPO and i thank you for it. now i gotta go repackage 3 drakes in my hangar and set them aside till they are needed again.
Mynxee Hellcats Doom Armada	Posted - 2008.09.09 13:59:00 - [55] Subchaos asked some interesting questions (definitely good fodder for a dedicated thread)--the intelligent replies were appreciated by this PvP semi-noob. Props to JUNTA and REPO for their mature "sports team" mentality in assessing each other and sharing the outcome publicly here. Good insights; very enjoyable read with my Troll Filter set to Skip All. Life in Low Sec \| Hellcats
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.09 14:22:00 - [56] Originally by: Subchaos I appreciate the responses from those who maintained their composure & answered the questions in a straightforward manner rather than take the low road dismissing it. For a new player, the PvE aspects of EVE has a steep learning curve, whereas the PvP mechanics are on an exponential level all on its own. Mistakes in the PvP realm are not just in isk but also in time. For instance, I found out about EVEMon, downloaded it & ran several "what-if" scenarios. The cost in isk for the required skills was enormous & the time to finish even some of the most basic, streamlined and extremely specialized skill sets for a new player was in months. This is saying that I continually have the isk to buy the books before needed as well as never miss a single skill update while training 24x7. If anyone of those (isk, books, update) are delayed it moves that entire timeline back even further. More importantly, without actually having any PvP experience in EVE, I am at a loss for what is & what isn't viable. This could translate into literally spending months of training & isk unecessarily because of a misperception. When I first came across this thread, I didn't think much about because I've not played EVE long enough to be enthralled by the politics between any corps/alliances. However, when I saw those links detailing the cost in isk & the KvD plus the odd looking losses it struck a cord. Not only was I now interested, but thought here is a war which could shed some light on the effectiveness (or ineffectiveness) of smaller ships in a much larger conflict. For a new player, to be able to know what a minimum, yet, realistic target goal for ship type & skills are needed to be an effective addition to a war is critical. No disrespect to either side was intended, if taken. Step #1: get in a good corp. Seriously, the difficulties that currently seem opaque and insurmountable will melt away like snow with good advice from more experienced players. You could also try joining Agony Unleashed for PvP training. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Kosume Ike Amarr GoldenWind	Posted - 2008.09.10 02:59:00 - [57] Edited by: Kosume Ike on 10/09/2008 03:00:55 Second that. Get into a good pvp corp. And before you say you cant because of skills etc, you -can-. It just takes a bit of looking around and a smart approach. As evidence, lets take an example of... AAA. One of the premier pvp alliances in 0.0. Skill Point minimum needed to join Rage and Terror I belive is only 5 mill, you of cause would also need to speak Russian :) but the point is some of the best corporations have very reasonable requirements. In other cases, well lets take REPO as this is pertinent to the topic, while you might or might not have the needed SP to join repo corp proper, REPO is also an alliance, so you could join one of their other corporation, fly with them, learn from them, be on their TS, show you know your stuff then apply to move to the repo corp. Chances are you would get in if you have been flying with them for a few months and have a few dozen kills. Or if you feel thats not the way you could even join JUNTA from this very thread, they sound like they like to fight, and have lots of new characters, they say they learned a lot from their war, why not join them and see what they can share?
Nebulaeus Moonstalker	Posted - 2008.09.11 02:14:00 - [58] the war was costly but we gained alot of knowledge fighting an experienced group like repo. props to repo and the people that stuck it out in SF.
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.11 04:51:00 - [59] Originally by: Subchaos For a new player, the PvE aspects of EVE has a steep learning curve, whereas the PvP mechanics are on an exponential level all on its own. Mistakes in the PvP realm are not just in isk but also in time. For a new player, to be able to know what a minimum, yet, realistic target goal for ship type & skills are needed to be an effective addition to a war is critical. As far as I can tell fleet or gang pvp success hinges almost allways on Intel and FC (fleet commander) and just a little fleet discipline. This is probably simplifying things, but I think it's a valid general comment. Try out EVE-University maybe, I've heard nothing but good things about them in my time here and they have helped out a lot of new people. Also, I've never tried Agony Unleashed couses but one would think a structured and limited pvp environment would be a great help to new people.


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