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Vargur vs Machariel

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zappp brannigann Zorlakian Air Corp 0	Posted - 2012.03.26 14:05:00 - [1] - Quote Ive read over the threads i could find by searching, and people seem to just throw out whichever one they prefer. Feel free to poke holes in my theory-fits. Trying to plan things out for the future. Looking at fast L4 missioning when i can actually fly one of these well enough Vargur 4x Republic Fleet Gyro 1x Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer 100mn MWD Tracking Computer II - Tacking Speed 2x Invuln Field II Shield Boost Amp Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster 4x 800mm Artillery II 2x Auto Targeting System Drone Link Augmentor CCC I Burst Aerator II 600 Tank 1054 DPS with Faction 3.9+47 Range Cap Stable .10 Tracking 1138 M/S with MWD Machariel 4x Republic Fleet Gyro 3x Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer 100mn MWD Tracking Computer II - Tracking Speed 2x Invuln Field Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster 7x 800MM Artillery II Auto Targeting System 2x Metastasis Adjuster I CCC II 300 Tank 942 DPS with T1 4.2+69 Range Cap Stable .077 Tracking 1505 M/S with MWD To me, it looks like the differences are Speed: Mach - 400 M/S, which dosent seem like much but i am sure it would add up Falloff: Mach - 20KM more falloff Sensor Strength: Mach - Not very many missions with jamming, but they do seem to pay out well and marauders get the shaft Tank: Vargur - Makes AE4 bonus room more comfortable, as well as any unexpected afks Tracking: Vargur - Not really sure how much will make me able to hit cruisers/bc orbiting at 5k so this could be a wash Ammo Costs and Logistics: Vargur - Able to use faction ammo for cheaper DPS: Argueable. Vargur is 100 short with faction ammo vs t1 and sentries on mach. If you bump mach up to faction, its gains 200 extra dps. Training time: About even with BSV vs SentryV Is the tracking, tank, and ammo cost worth losing dps(30 - 200), falloff, and sensor?
Daniel Plain Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 18	Posted - 2012.03.26 14:33:00 - [2] - Quote you do not want to fly lvl4s with a 300ish tank. you also do not want to use pith a-type medium shield booster, as it is ~1.2bil on contracts. you probably do not want to use MWDs because in most missions, you can just sit still and shoot. i would advise you to look into a XL booster + cap booster build on both ships.
Captain Nares O3 Corporation 31	Posted - 2012.03.26 14:41:00 - [3] - Quote No real differences for l4s between those ships. Real difference is in skills required. Marauders require 5 lvl V skills. Marauder skill itself is useless for anything apart marauder. Mach doesn't require any lvl V skills. Matar/Gall BS' are useful skills.
Mike712 BattleClinic 84	Posted - 2012.03.26 14:49:00 - [4] - Quote Daniel Plain wrote: you do not want to fly lvl4s with a 300ish tank. you also do not want to use pith a-type medium shield booster, as it is ~1.2bil on contracts. you probably do not want to use MWDs because in most missions, you can just sit still and shoot. i would advise you to look into a XL booster + cap booster build on both ships. Pithum A-type med is a perfect booster for lv4 missions, if cost is not an issue. Both vargur and mach put out allot of DPS so you don't need much tank if you prioritize the right targets, besides the vargur gets about 500 DPS tank with pithum A-type med, T2 boost amp and T2 hardeners, which is almost over-tanked for most missions, the mach gets about 450 but can speed/sig tank. Regards, Mike712 The BattleClinic Team
Caleidascope Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 90	Posted - 2012.03.26 14:52:00 - [5] - Quote Captain Nares wrote: Real difference is in skills required. Marauders require 5 lvl V skills. Marauder skill itself is useless for anything apart marauder. Mach doesn't require any lvl V skills. Matar/Gall BS' are useful skills. ^Most likely this. I don't salvage much anymore, when I do, I have Noctis. Life is short and dinner time is chancy Eat desert first!
Pheusia Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 51	Posted - 2012.03.26 14:53:00 - [6] - Quote Daniel Plain wrote: you do not want to fly lvl4s with a 300ish tank. you also do not want to use pith a-type medium shield booster, as it is ~1.2bil on contracts. you probably do not want to use MWDs because in most missions, you can just sit still and shoot. i would advise you to look into a XL booster + cap booster build on both ships. Have you ever flow a mach?
zappp brannigann Zorlakian Air Corp 0	Posted - 2012.03.26 14:58:00 - [7] - Quote Daniel Plain wrote: you do not want to fly lvl4s with a 300ish tank. you also do not want to use pith a-type medium shield booster, as it is ~1.2bil on contracts. you probably do not want to use MWDs because in most missions, you can just sit still and shoot. i would advise you to look into a XL booster + cap booster build on both ships. I used to fly a nightmare on a char i ended up selling. It had 450 tank and did fine. Never took it into AE4B however. Dont mind speding up to 1b on a module that will get me the tank i want, and be cap stable so i dont have to screw with boosters. MWD for things like WC. AB takes much longer. 500M/S vs 1600M/S
zappp brannigann Zorlakian Air Corp 0	Posted - 2012.03.26 14:59:00 - [8] - Quote Caleidascope wrote: Captain Nares wrote: Real difference is in skills required. Marauders require 5 lvl V skills. Marauder skill itself is useless for anything apart marauder. Mach doesn't require any lvl V skills. Matar/Gall BS' are useful skills. ^Most likely this. I don't salvage much anymore, when I do, I have Noctis. This is why i hesitate on marauders. Good with tractors to make a lootball, but in actual practice it dosent hold up well.
zappp brannigann Zorlakian Air Corp 0	Posted - 2012.03.31 22:32:00 - [9] - Quote bump
FT Diomedes Factio Paucorum 21	Posted - 2012.03.31 23:17:00 - [10] - Quote I have flown them both extensively. It's a toss-up between them. DPS is comparable if you use faction ammo in the Vargur but not in the Mach. The Mach can get a lot of extra DPS from the Bouncers, but then it cannot move. Both these ships have ample tank and DPS. Honestly, apart from skills, it comes down to which you think looks better My Vargur has an Energy Transfer because I tend to dual-box missions. Paired up with another Marauder, I can cut down the number of cap mods needed on each ship. With only one cap mod, the tank is still cap stable even without the energy transfer. I tend to just have one ship follow the other around and lay waste to everything with 2200 DPS. Don't need that much tank when you play that way. I have the tractor beam and the salvager on there, but I don't tend to waste much time looting. If I have some reason to loot/salvage (e.g. for an anti-Empire faction mission where I need the tags), I'll come back with a Noctis. I only use the tractor beam/salvager for ones or twos here and there most of the time. I don't worry about jamming - that's what the other ship is for - the odds of both ships being jammed is very small if you grab aggro properly. If I have to fight a lot of Guristas, I'm inclined to break out an Ishtar or Navy Dominix and laugh at the jamming A pair of Machariels is also an awesome combination. I've also used them on the Minmatar epic arc several times with good results. Doesn't have as much tank as the Vargur, but it does a very lovely job. I tend to speed from warp-in to the first gate, drop sentries, kill everything, next room, repeat. I prefer T1 ammo because I feel like I can just start blasting at 60km and not worry about the expense If I was forced to pick, I'd go with the Vargur, but that's because I already have Marauders V.
stoicfaux 900	Posted - 2012.04.01 00:29:00 - [11] - Quote MWD Mach has better DPS because it can close the range quickly. Generally speaking, a T1 ammo Mach will match if the DPS of a RF ammo Vargur when the Mach is ~11km closer. Here's what I use for blitzing in minnie space: http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/58393-Machariel-Level-4-Blitzer-MWD-Web-EW-Drones-Minmatar-Space.html Immobile sentry drones are a waste of time, IMO. I use Webber and TP drones instead to improve tracking. For the Vargur, I found that a Pithum C MSB was the bare minimum to use in Minnie space: http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/59297-Vargur-Level-4-Minmatar-Space-Max-Gank-Min-Tank.html However, I've never tried it in the AE bonus room because AE is generally a waste of time. It sounds like you should go with the Vargur. The Pithum A will provide more than enough tank, but I would still recommend swapping one of the invuls for a missions specific fit. YMMV. Dammit, if CCP hadn't nerfed the Comet's blinking light, I could now be flying around in Jita in my "Whaaaaaambulance!" Goon Tears: -á25% Alcohol by Volume

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