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Mordekai Bloodwake Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.08 13:42:00 - [1] Edited by: Mordekai Bloodwake on 08/09/2008 13:47:30 Last night my kids run and tell me they saw the game i play on a TV commercial, Well the TV Commercial was in fact Eve-Online the problem is that the commercial was on the cartoon network! Ok so here's my problem; First - Eve-Online continues to push away new players, i would say 8 to 9 out of 10 players will not renew or go past their trial buddy programs due to harsh and non-new-player friendly environment Eve has become. Second - Most new players (and im talking about the masses from other MMO's) DO NOT find it fun when killed without a chance to defend them selves. (this is a major issue that plagues new players). Third - Bully corps, There are corps that specifically target smaller and new corps with the sole purpose of increasing their kill ratio, meaning a group of players from X MMO come to Eve, then form their own personal corp to have fun then get war dec'd by a much more seasoned corp and ****d time and time again before even allowing the new player corp to get a chance to learn the game mechanics of Eve or to even begin to have fun. (yes there are players that like to keep to their own corp and being part of an alliance is not something they want to participate in). I have invited so many friends from other MMO's i play in the past few years playing Eve and many that have tried only a few have stuck with the game due to the 3 main issues above. CCP if you plan to increase the player base (which business suggest you do in order to increase profit) please know you need to be more new player friendly, treating new players as canon fodder for older players that can afford ship losses or simply want to increase their kill ratio is not fun nor will it attract a larger player base, instead Eve will continue to be niche with a very limited number of player subscriptions and although most of the PvP gank shuttle popping fanbuis enjoy it, it will mean less money for Eve to continue expanding. I would also say trying to attract kids that watch the cartoon network into Eve-Online will only add more to the new player death toll. Just my .0001 ISK.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.09.08 13:53:00 - [2] Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake First - Eve-Online continues to push away new players, i would say 8 to 9 out of 10 players will not renew or go past their trial buddy programs due to harsh and non-new-player friendly environment Eve has become. Working as intended. Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake Second - Most new players (and im talking about the masses from other MMO's) DO NOT find it fun when killed without a chance to defend them selves. (this is a major issue that plagues new players). Working as intended. Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake Third - Bully corps, There are corps that specifically target smaller and new corps with the sole purpose of increasing their kill ratio, meaning a group of players from X MMO come to Eve, then form their own personal corp to have fun then get war dec'd by a much more seasoned corp and **d time and time again before even allowing the new player corp to get a chance to learn the game mechanics of Eve or to even begin to have fun. (yes there are players that like to keep to their own corp and being part of an alliance is not something they want to participate in). They have stated they are going to rework wardecs. Originally by:** Mordekai Bloodwake I have invited so many friends from other MMO's i play in the past few years playing Eve and many that have tried only a few have stuck with the game due to the 3 main issues above. What does the phrase 'niche game' mean to you exactly? Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake I would also say trying to attract kids that watch the cartoon network into Eve-Online will only add more to the new player death toll. More lulz for us. - DesuSigs
Sarin Adler Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.08 13:59:00 - [3] It's fine as it is, I find all these thingies to act as filters and it's fine. heck it probably was much harder in the apst. Also I don't think is so hard to start as a new player, hi-sec is very safe indeed, and the learning curve is ok. Filters are good. Advertising in CN is a bit weird have to agree with that one. A game with a playerbase of 260k subscribers, and probably 3< million players on 5 years is not that much niche. Indeed EVE is very popular comapred to 99% of MMOG (WoW being that 1%). EVE is rpetty unqie and we want to keep it as it is, we don't need an other wow clone with the same stupid audience. There are allready topo much useless guys in EVE, don't need more. If you can't learn go to other game, is fine for me. --- Alts, the root of all evil.
Somealt Ofmine	Posted - 2008.09.08 14:13:00 - [4] Originally by: Sarin Adler Filters are good. Advertising in CN is a bit weird have to agree with that one. Cartoon network's demographics might suprise you. They have a lot more viewers in their 20s than you might imagine. The other thing to consider is that cable advertising is often bought in packages that include a little of this and a little of that. You get a better rate if you buy the package instead of picking and choosing which networks to air your spot on. To the OP: Eve is a ganker's game. It's mechanics set up for it (gates you can camp, choke points, war-decs, etc.), and it has attracted a large and loyal following of those who like to gank (kill others when they don't have much of a chance). CCP has to walk a tightrope of keeping the gankers happy while providing enough mechanics that lets the gankee figure out how to avoid it before they give up and quit. As you have seen in these forums, anything that deters ganking will result in a shit-storm of protest from the player base, so they have to tread lightly with this.
5pinDizzy Amarr Umpteenth Podding	Posted - 2008.09.08 14:23:00 - [5] lol advetising on cartoon network? I wouldn't have been remotely interested in Eve or probably even know what to do with it until I was around 14. First - Everyone I know didn't go past eve trial not because it's harsh but because it's boring. Here's the real complaints I've heard from every trial member friend who's quit. - Time sinking game mechanics, e.g By the time you've decided you want to pvp, and have spent hours flying around 30 jumps to every different place, collecting all your bits to put your ideal ship together, then jumped into your jump clone and done your insurance, right you need to go to that lowsec region 10 jumps away, oh died straight away, right then, put another shi... actually screw that, it took 2 hours to set the first one up. I've literally had 2 hours to spare with friends before to go out pvping and by the time we were all ready it was too late and had to go to bed anyway. -How they find they go out to fight in their tech 1 ship in the first week expecting they can do something good only to come across endless roaming gangs of multimillion tech 2 ships everywhere they go. -Tedious stargate travelling wears them down spending 85% of their time jumping through these hoops endlessly. No known fix on the drawing board by CCP. -How every systems looks and acts exactly the same as the next and on the surface there's absolutely no substance to any of them. Various world enriching features on the drawing board, but are a long way off. -Missions - Paying for a multiplayer game to spend hours on singleplayer missions earning peanuts unless someone whispers something in their ear about salvaging. May see some enhancements in this area within the next 6 months or so. -Mining - Possibly the dullest joke of an activity ever contrived by a game developer in the history of mankind. May see some enhancements in this area within the next 6 months or so. Anything else PVE wise is very skill intensive. -Joining a corp. Nearly all the corps you join as a new player are rubbish, you go from crappy corp with noone ever online to other crappy corp with noone ever online. Where all the actual decent corps have a minimum skillpoint level requirement of about 1 or 2 years worth of skillpoints. Suggested fix which would work very well was suggested in another thread some time ago, 100 million isk to start a corp, this ensures only the committed players start one instead of all the deadweight corps that are floating around. Second - PvP is a choice, if you stay in empire in an npc and keep to yourself, 99.9 percent of the time noone else with bother with you. You do however have a point if you are wishing to highlight the gaping skill gap between new and integrated players that cannot be closed upon without spending around a year learning skills. As much as people say you can solo pvp in a tech 1 ship, you can't really, unless you find another noob wondering around. Which only leaves PVE for the first 12 months or so, and the pve in this game is as dull as dishwater. Third - I refer you to the first part of my second, npc corp and highsec space, joining a player made corp is a choice. However, CCP happens to agree with you and this is being looked at. Seeing as the you can only really have any real fun by being in a player made corp with friends.
Yurname Here	Posted - 2008.09.08 14:27:00 - [6] Originally by: Somealt Ofmine CCP has to walk a tightrope of keeping the gankers happy while providing enough mechanics that lets the gankee figure out how to avoid it before they give up and quit. As you have seen in these forums, anything that deters ganking will result in a shit-storm of protest from the player base, so they have to tread lightly with this. LMFAO. Considering this forum is DOMINATED by gankers of course they'll cry a frickin river of tears. I've never seen a forum of louder whiners in my life and it's all the gankers. Get me a boat, I'm drowning in gank tears. The OP is correct but it will never matter. Nuff said.
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.09.08 14:31:00 - [7] Originally by: Yurname Here Considering this forum is DOMINATED by gankers Considering this game is a PvP game, it would be pretty wierd if its forums weren't dominated by gankers…
Miyamoto Uroki Caldari KuhSchubsKlan	Posted - 2008.09.08 14:44:00 - [8] Edited by: Miyamoto Uroki on 08/09/2008 14:44:15 I 100% agree with SpinDizzy. What would also finally solve most of the problem that is time consuming fitting your ship and travelling around (as for traders) is the final introduction of Interbus. Something ccp is been talking about since the beginning of Eve. Make Interbus deliver your goods within the constellation for a small fee, also increase the extra cost when putting up contracts (or maybe even market orders). The current extra fine needed seems not to work. And ofc change the high agent distribution system to a dynamic one. That would imho effectively remove all major trade hubs from the game. Maybe a bit of system links have to be reworked too, so that Jita isn't centre of lower caldari space anymore. So the benefits would be: - far far less time consuming when youre shopping, instead using that time for action. - with time removal of all major trade hubs - more localization, which would also mean less need to travel and thereby wasting your time I would be really interested in Dr. Ejyo (dunno how he's spelt,sry) opinion on such deep, world shaping changes. some random dev plz poke him to get onto the forums ^^ Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face
Yurname Here	Posted - 2008.09.08 15:00:00 - [9] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Yurname Here Considering this forum is DOMINATED by gankers Considering this game is a PvP game, it would be pretty wierd if its forums weren't dominated by gankersà LMAO. Gankers do not = pvp. Gankers = well, ganking unarmed or noobish ships unable to defend themselves. PVP = people engaging well equiped ships able to fight back. Thought most people in MMOs knew the difference. In any event, ganking noobs is never a good thing if trying to expand a player base. But I can't say that is what CCP wants to do. And as previous posters said, maybe they want only certain people who can play through the weak who prey on the defenseless.
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.09.08 15:05:00 - [10] Originally by: Yurname Here LMAO. Gankers do not = pvp. Gankers = well, ganking unarmed or noobish ships unable to defend themselves. PVP = people engaging well equiped ships able to fight back. Thought most people in MMOs knew the difference. PvP = Player vs. Player. Ganking is one of the many types of PvP you'll see in ≡v≡, and seing as how numbers count for a lot when it comes to winning, it should comes as no surprise that it is gangs doing the killing. Rule #1 of ≡v≡: if you're in a fair fight, you're doing it wrong.
5pinDizzy Amarr Umpteenth Podding	Posted - 2008.09.08 15:08:00 - [11] Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 08/09/2008 15:13:29 Originally by: Miyamoto Uroki Edited by: Miyamoto Uroki on 08/09/2008 14:44:15 I 100% agree with SpinDizzy. What would also finally solve most of the problem that is time consuming fitting your ship and travelling around (as for traders) is the final introduction of Interbus. Something ccp is been talking about since the beginning of Eve. Make Interbus deliver your goods within the constellation for a small fee, also increase the extra cost when putting up contracts (or maybe even market orders). The current extra fine needed seems not to work. And ofc change the high agent distribution system to a dynamic one. That would imho effectively remove all major trade hubs from the game. Maybe a bit of system links have to be reworked too, so that Jita isn't centre of lower caldari space anymore. So the benefits would be: - far far less time consuming when youre shopping, instead using that time for action. - with time removal of all major trade hubs - more localization, which would also mean less need to travel and thereby wasting your time I would be really interested in Dr. Ejyo (dunno how he's spelt,sry) opinion on such deep, world shaping changes. some random dev plz poke him to get onto the forums ^^ Omg that sounds so awesome, do want! Restricted per constellation though?, I see the need to limit the range so marjin traders and haulers aren't phased out of the market system, but can we go for an entire region? Maybe with a certain level 5 skill? With a delivery cost multiplier the further away the amount of jumps the item is as a bit of balance so that you might still buy something more expensive cause it's nearer rather then snapping up the cheapest goods all over the entire region all the time and putting the profit margin of industrialists on a knife edge.

CCP RyanD Caldari C C P	Posted - 2008.09.08 15:13:00 - [12] The ad you saw was running on Adult Swim, which has a great demographic for EVE: 20-30 year olds, not many kids.

Lothros Andastar Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.08 15:23:00 - [13] Originally by: CCP RyanD The ad you saw was running on Adult Swim, which has a great demographic for EVE: 20-30 year olds, not many kids. Dev troll FTW!
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.08 15:32:00 - [14] Originally by: Yurname Here Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Yurname Here Considering this forum is DOMINATED by gankers Considering this game is a PvP game, it would be pretty wierd if its forums weren't dominated by gankersà LMAO. Gankers do not = pvp. Gankers = well, ganking unarmed or noobish ships unable to defend themselves. PVP = people engaging well equiped ships able to fight back. Thought most people in MMOs knew the difference. Please point to your shining "real" PvP acheivements. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Kyle Klanen	Posted - 2008.09.08 15:35:00 - [15] Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake Edited by: Mordekai Bloodwake on 08/09/2008 13:47:30 Last night my kids run and tell me they saw the game i play on a TV commercial, Well the TV Commercial was in fact Eve-Online the problem is that the commercial was on the cartoon network! Ok so here's my problem; First - Eve-Online continues to push away new players, i would say 8 to 9 out of 10 players will not renew or go past their trial buddy programs due to harsh and non-new-player friendly environment Eve has become. Second - Most new players (and im talking about the masses from other MMO's) DO NOT find it fun when killed without a chance to defend them selves. (this is a major issue that plagues new players). Third - Bully corps, There are corps that specifically target smaller and new corps with the sole purpose of increasing their kill ratio, meaning a group of players from X MMO come to Eve, then form their own personal corp to have fun then get war dec'd by a much more seasoned corp and ****d time and time again before even allowing the new player corp to get a chance to learn the game mechanics of Eve or to even begin to have fun. (yes there are players that like to keep to their own corp and being part of an alliance is not something they want to participate in). I have invited so many friends from other MMO's i play in the past few years playing Eve and many that have tried only a few have stuck with the game due to the 3 main issues above. CCP if you plan to increase the player base (which business suggest you do in order to increase profit) please know you need to be more new player friendly, treating new players as canon fodder for older players that can afford ship losses or simply want to increase their kill ratio is not fun nor will it attract a larger player base, instead Eve will continue to be niche with a very limited number of player subscriptions and although most of the PvP gank shuttle popping fanbuis enjoy it, it will mean less money for Eve to continue expanding. I would also say trying to attract kids that watch the cartoon network into Eve-Online will only add more to the new player death toll. Just my .0001 ISK. CCP Greyscale alt detected.
Hungo Minmatar Research And Tactics Zeta Tau Epsilon	Posted - 2008.09.08 15:38:00 - [16] CCP wanst to rival WOW and they think by atrarcting kids that will work, only problemn here is rather obviosu and its very disturbing they dont see it EVE is very compicated to anyoen under 14 - thats why its a bunch of single pathetic, depsrate nerds who play wow - very simple, gpo here, get this gear, level quickly Aslong as this 8real time training* B U L L S H I T exists, eve will stay at 40k ish subs n not grow + lag - unable to even get one patch up without problems keep dreaming ccop
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2008.09.08 15:38:00 - [17] Originally by: CCP RyanD The ad you saw was running on Adult Swim, which has a great demographic for EVE: 20-30 year olds, not many kids. OP, WTH were you doing letting your kids watch Adult Swim?? Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.09.08 15:42:00 - [18] Edited by: Tippia on 08/09/2008 15:44:21 Originally by: Hungo Aslong as this real time training B U L L S H I T exists, eve will stay at 40k ish subs n not grow + lag - unable to even get one patch up without problems It already has 250k-ish subs, you know, so you're proven wrong right from the start… …that said, if what you say is true, I'd actually prefer it if ≡v≡ wouldn't grow any larger. The real-time training is one of the defining features that makes it much more pleasing to me than any other MMO out there — if they had to sacrifice that to increase their sub numbers, then they'd lose my sub in the process.
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.08 15:42:00 - [19] Originally by: Hungo CCP wanst to rival WOW and they think by atrarcting kids that will work, only problemn here is rather obviosu and its very disturbing they dont see it EVE is very compicated to anyoen under 14 - thats why its a bunch of single pathetic, depsrate nerds who play wow - very simple, gpo here, get this gear, level quickly Aslong as this 8real time training* B U L L S H I T exists, eve will stay at 40k ish subs n not grow + lag - unable to even get one patch up without problems keep dreaming ccop Just one problem: EvE has almost 300,000 subs and has grown every quarter for the last 4 years. Oh, sorry, am I griefing you with "facts"? Allow me to apologise and send you rainbow kisses and fairy hugs. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Zaknussem Caldari The Ironbreakers	Posted - 2008.09.08 15:44:00 - [20] Originally by: Sarin Adler EVE is rpetty unqie and we want to keep it as it is, we don't need an other wow clone with the same stupid audience. There are allready topo much useless guys in EVE, don't need more. If you can't learn go to other game, is fine for me. (Leaving the above spelling errors in on purpose.) Unless you work at CCP, how you want "to keep it as it is" means nothing in the end. If they want to change EvE and make it into WoW In Space, nothing you can say or do is going to change that. One can argue that the same things that make EvE unique are also the same things that stunt EvE's growth. Eventually the "uniqueness" will result in a negative growth. What happens then? EvE may be "fine as it is" right now, but don't be surprised if that changes...
Reven Cordelle Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.09.08 15:45:00 - [21] 1.Bored 2.Bored 3.Bored 4.Eyestrain But fo' serious, its probably true. I don't think CCP know what their key demographic is... Cept maybe "geeks who like space"...
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.08 15:45:00 - [22] Originally by: Zaknussem. Eventually the "uniqueness" will result in a negative growth...[/quote You state that as a fact when it's actually an unsupported assumption. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.08 15:50:00 - [23] Edited by: Malcanis on 08/09/2008 15:50:08 EDT: duplicate. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.09.08 15:54:00 - [24] Quote: CCP wanst to rival WOW and they think by atrarcting kids that will work, ads on adult swim Quote: EVE is very compicated to anyoen under 14 - thats why its a bunch of single pathetic, depsrate nerds who play such as yourself, not like those smart young hip non-nerdy wow players... Quote: wow - very simple, gpo here, get this gear, level quickly and what makes you think eve wants this? Quote: Aslong as this 8real time training* B U L L S H I T exists, eve will stay at 40k ish subs n not grow + lag - unable to even get one patch up without problems eve is the 3rd largest western mmorpg on the market subs wise at about 300,000 players. It is the only mmorpg other than wow that has only shown growth over the past 4 years. They don't need 10 million subs they already outnumber the subs Everquest ever had. Quote: keep dreaming ccop to quote a dev "we must be doing something right" also I'll send you rainbow hugs too if facts are too much for you :) rainbow gank
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.09.08 15:55:00 - [25] wait a moment BACK UP BACK THE HELL UP!!! Quote: Last night my kids run and tell me they saw the game i play on a TV commercial, Well the TV Commercial was in fact Eve-Online the problem is that the commercial was on the cartoon network! your kids are watching adult programing? your a bad parent. this thread is on the same level of "my son bought GTA3 and I can't believe the stuff they put in games for kids these days"
Cael Deboisbleu	Posted - 2008.09.08 16:08:00 - [26] Quote: Well the TV Commercial was in fact Eve-Online the problem is that the commercial was on the cartoon network! Look like CPP is looking for more Pirates!
Dr Axler The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.08 16:11:00 - [27] eve has tv ads? damn, guess you don`t get to see any if you live in Slovenia :) _________________________________________________ "nerf rock, paper is working as intended." - Scissors
Sarin Adler Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.08 16:15:00 - [28] Originally by: Zaknussem Originally by: Sarin Adler EVE is rpetty unqie and we want to keep it as it is, we don't need an other wow clone with the same stupid audience. There are allready topo much useless guys in EVE, don't need more. If you can't learn go to other game, is fine for me. (Leaving the above spelling errors in on purpose.) Unless you work at CCP, how you want "to keep it as it is" means nothing in the end. If they want to change EvE and make it into WoW In Space, nothing you can say or do is going to change that. One can argue that the same things that make EvE unique are also the same things that stunt EvE's growth. Eventually the "uniqueness" will result in a negative growth. What happens then? EvE may be "fine as it is" right now, but don't be surprised if that changes... Sorry for the typos, was writing fast. "Eventually the "uniqueness" will result in a negative growth." You've yet to demonstrate this with empirical data. EVE has been growing for years and the trend is not changing. Indeed I don't know if the hardware that there is right now could hole more thank 50k online players at once without blatant lag everywhere in the universe. So... WoW in space is not happening, at least not yet. --- Alts, the root of all evil.
s33ker Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2008.09.08 16:37:00 - [29] There is always a way to defend yourself. I've never felt defenseless in the game, not even when I was noob. Scout ahead, don't have an alt yet? Get a friend to scout... just want to stick to yourself and play alone? Go play super mario twins, eve is a multiplayer game. Back in the day I tried to pick on small corps with some friends and they got other corps in the game to pick on us. I don't buy into what the OP is saying. Some people simply will not like this game and THAT IS OKAY.
Amy Wang	Posted - 2008.09.08 16:44:00 - [30] I think a lot of the long time subscribers including me fear that Eve will be evolving from a "harsh" niche-game to CCP's cash cow to finance the development of their new favourite child world of darkness and will become much less "harsh" and "nichey" for that. Imho there is nothing wrong with ganking, scamming, suiciding (relatively) new players, on the contrary, they either learn from the experience or realize the game is not for them. But in my experience most newish people, corps or alliances dont quit but adapt and become better, in fact being picked on was doing them a favour in the end, they became better players because of it (yes, I'm serious). Take the recent suicide ganking nerf for example: I used to afk haul expensive modules (worth a couple 100m) in frigs, got suicided a few times back in the days. Nowadays I use well fitted t2 transports for this kind of cargo, before the suicide ganking nerf I got shot at in those ships a lot still, but the attacker was never successful - because I put the effort in to train for the correct ships and put some thought into equipping it. Why should a new player now with the nerf have the same security for much smaller effort hauling in a frig or t1 hauler? Doesnt seem fair really - I say bring back the old concord and let suicide gankers punish the dumb and lazy again!
Traidor Disloyal NightCrew	Posted - 2008.09.08 17:03:00 - [31] Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake Well the TV Commercial was in fact Eve-Online the problem is that the commercial was on the cartoon network! I'm over 50 years of age and I watch the cartoon channel. You make it sound like it's dirty or something. Ben 10 forever! Things to do to not get blowed up in Hi Sec: 1. don't smack talk in local 2. don't fly a pimped out ship that says "Shoot me please!" on it 3. even if it is Hi Sec always assume someone wants to kill you so never, ever, and I do mean ever, fly AFK anywhere in Hi Sec. I have a mission running alt that follows the above advice and has never been war decced or looked at funny in this game. Treat Hi Sec like Low Sec and you will live longer. --------------------------------------------- Love is having a second account with a cov ops pilot
Mordekai Bloodwake Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.08 18:14:00 - [32] Originally by: CCP RyanD The ad you saw was running on Adult Swim, which has a great demographic for EVE: 20-30 year olds, not many kids. LOL! My post was not to flame, it was due to the desperate act of "new player" recruitment being done in order to grow Eve-Online, the part CCP folks seem to leave out if their "ganking shuttle popping kill you with no chance to fight back" core game system that is NOT 'new player' friendly. Its obvious CCP wants to grow their player base to increase subscriptions, whats they are missing is that the "MAJORITY" of new players from other MMO's are "NOT" hardcore PvP'ers and DO NOT enjoy losing items and ships without a fighting chance as how the current core system allows. It favors too much the "Ganker" and not enough breathing room for the "Gankee" per say.
Cailais Amarr VITOC	Posted - 2008.09.08 18:25:00 - [33] Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake Its obvious CCP wants to grow their player base to increase subscriptions, whats they are missing is that the "MAJORITY" of new players from other MMO's are "NOT" hardcore PvP'ers and DO NOT enjoy losing items and ships without a fighting chance as how the current core system allows. You're making the assumption that CCP wants to increase the player base by gaining subscriptions of 'other' MMOs. However the introduction of things like Tony Gonzales novel, the EVE CCG, the EVE Board Game, TV adverts and Ambulation suggest that CCP's target audience doesn't necessarily play MMOs at all. Equally the changes to: the War Dec system, suicide ganking, anti - harrasment policies, stronger CONCORD, a less scammable 'Escrow' (contracts system), more secure Corp assets, 'newb friendly FW', new improved tutorial, new starter missions, salvaging, and so on and so on - all indicate that CCP are very much aware of the need to cater to 'new players' whilst endevouring to maintain the more brutal aspect of EVE's Universe. That's a hard balance to achieve but a worthwhile objective. C. Originally by: Tarminic Your continued whining is somewhat diminished by your continued willingness to give your money to CCP.
Sharupak Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.09.08 18:36:00 - [34] Quote: CCP needs to understand who they want to target for their player base. This game has been going for like 5.5 years. They have survived and gained more subscribers in the face of wow, eq2, swg and all the supposed revolutionary games backed by game corporations that have spent millions on advertising...they should be taking your marketing advice because... You work for an advertising agency? You have run a successful multimillion dollar gaming company? You came down from mount sinai? or You could care less about CCP's marketing strategy and are using this as a disguise to troll your dead horse ideas for a more player friendly game? _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude.
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2008.09.08 18:38:00 - [35] Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake it was due to the desperate act of "new player" recruitment being done in order to grow Eve-Online So you see a McDonalds commercial on TV and it's a "desperate act" to sell cheeseburgers? I think most people would just call that advertising. There isn't an emoticon fitting for this, so please combine these as best you can: Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake Its obvious CCP wants to grow their player base to increase subscriptions, whats they are missing is that the "MAJORITY" of new players from other MMO's are "NOT" hardcore PvP'ers and DO NOT enjoy losing items and ships without a fighting chance as how the current core system allows. It favors too much the "Ganker" and not enough breathing room for the "Gankee" per say. Oh, my giddy aunt Gertrude... You didn't just go there, did you? Here's a few concepts for you: - Eve = niche game - Eve != typical MMO - Turning Eve into typical MMO would just make it an epically boring typical MMO. - What made Eve as successful as it is today, is exactly what you are pointing out as negatives. = All that adds up to Eve probably not being the game for you. That's ok. No, really it is ok. Ever pass something like an S&M shop with assless chaps and whips and whatnot in the window. Ever see one of the Village People come out of it and you just shake your head and think, "wow... what freaks"? Did you ever feel inclined to go inside and demand that the shop keeper remove all his merchandise and start selling sports equipment? Or did you ever consider just how it is possible that such a crazy store could remain in business? Now I'm not suggesting that Eve is an S&M shop... And frankly, I blame Sheriff Jones for me even bringing it up, BUT! it does apply in a weird way. There are things in life that are just not for you. It happens. Why would you join something successful, something holding it's own, and start demanding changes so it's more fitting *for you? Demanding that it change into something else. Why not just *** off to two doors down and get your tennis racquet from Steve's Sports Shop instead of demanding that Freaky Freddy make you one out of leather thongs? See what you did? You got me so worked up I've gone right off my meds. I'm gonna go take an Advil and watch some Red Dwarf. In the meantime, you think about them thongs... Or maybe read this. Its an oldy but a goody: Stay the Course, Man Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Sturmwolke School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.09.08 19:14:00 - [36] There's little point in attracting new players if you are unable to retain them. EVE player base grew, not inasamuch because of new players, but because existing players kept on their subscription indefinitely. The twice yearly updates keeps player interested with the game and many former players may return when the game offers a worthwhile reason. One thing that I feel CCP have done absolutely right is not to delete off old characters, thus making it possible for returning players to pick up where they have left. Breaking the game mold to emulate WOW will not be a wise move. That said, I agree that new players needed to be treated better in the current game. Indeed, there are many aspects that can be re-looked into to make their gaming experience better for the first 2-3 months of their lives.
suiu	Posted - 2008.09.08 19:16:00 - [37] Edited by: suiu on 08/09/2008 19:17:44 EVE is successful because it's the only game in town. If Earth and Beyond didn't get canceled EVE probably won't be here today. And it took EVE 5 years to reach 250k subs, that's not impressive at all. I personally have invited 4 friends to try out EVE and none of them have stayed. Most of the complains are exactly what the OP stated. Just thinking about the amount of people EVE fails to retain, it amazes me how much potential money they might be losing. But as long as EVE is the only Space MMO on the market, it will be fine.
Belmarduk Amarr M.A.R.S. Enterprises Majesta Empire	Posted - 2008.09.08 19:17:00 - [38] Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake Edited by: Mordekai Bloodwake on 08/09/2008 13:47:30 Last night my kids run and tell me they saw the game i play on a TV commercial, Well the TV Commercial was in fact Eve-Online the problem is that the commercial was on the cartoon network! Ok so here's my problem; First - Eve-Online continues to push away new players, i would say 8 to 9 out of 10 players will not renew or go past their trial buddy programs due to harsh and non-new-player friendly environment Eve has become. Second - Most new players (and im talking about the masses from other MMO's) DO NOT find it fun when killed without a chance to defend them selves. (this is a major issue that plagues new players). Third - Bully corps, There are corps that specifically target smaller and new corps with the sole purpose of increasing their kill ratio, meaning a group of players from X MMO come to Eve, then form their own personal corp to have fun then get war dec'd by a much more seasoned corp and ****d time and time again before even allowing the new player corp to get a chance to learn the game mechanics of Eve or to even begin to have fun. (yes there are players that like to keep to their own corp and being part of an alliance is not something they want to participate in). I have invited so many friends from other MMO's i play in the past few years playing Eve and many that have tried only a few have stuck with the game due to the 3 main issues above. CCP if you plan to increase the player base (which business suggest you do in order to increase profit) please know you need to be more new player friendly, treating new players as canon fodder for older players that can afford ship losses or simply want to increase their kill ratio is not fun nor will it attract a larger player base, instead Eve will continue to be niche with a very limited number of player subscriptions and although most of the PvP gank shuttle popping fanbuis enjoy it, it will mean less money for Eve to continue expanding. I would also say trying to attract kids that watch the cartoon network into Eve-Online will only add more to the new player death toll. Just my .0001 ISK. 1. This is Eve - If you dont like it go play Wow 2. Adapt - If you cant go play Wow 3. There are many possibilitys to stay safe - Play smart stay safe - If you cant manage that - Go play Wow 4. New players are filtered through fast - The good ones that can adapt stay and enjoy Eve - Those that cant adapt are filtered and.. go and play Wow... 5. Eve is Eve is Eve - If you dont like that - GO PLAY WOW FFS but dont ask for stupid changes making Eve a 0815 mmorpg !!!!!!! 6. If you manage to adapt (its not that hard..) have fun and fly safe. CCP Please give us casual players a Skill-Queue !
Karentaki Gallente Fighting While Intoxicated Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.09.08 19:32:00 - [39] Edited by: Karentaki on 08/09/2008 19:33:35 Originally by: Hungo CCP wanst to rival WOW and they think by atrarcting kids that will work, only problemn here is rather obviosu and its very disturbing they dont see it EVE is very compicated to anyoen under 14 - thats why its a bunch of single pathetic, depsrate nerds who play wow - very simple, gpo here, get this gear, level quickly Aslong as this 8real time training* B U L L S H I T exists, eve will stay at 40k ish subs n not grow + lag - unable to even get one patch up without problems keep dreaming ccop Cry more please. Being too stupid to play the game does not represent a convincing argument to change it. Also, I assume that you're one of those 'single pathetic, depsrate nerds' since nobody else plays the game right? Of course, everyone who is more intelligent than you is a 'single pathetic, depsrate nerd' right? EDIT: Also, Eve has 300k - 400k subs and climbing. GB2Wplease Quote: EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.09.08 20:05:00 - [40] Its more worrying that you kids are watching adult swim than the fact that EVE is being advertised there -- Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
Myra2007 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.09.08 20:19:00 - [41] You should read the last posts of ccp greyscale. He will take you by the hand rather sooner than later.

CCP RyanD Caldari C C P	Posted - 2008.09.08 20:51:00 - [42] We're not desperate but we are working hard to get new players. The TV advertisements are a test of a strategy to try and reach people that we think would like EVE but who aren't MMO players and are unlikely to see our advertising elsewhere. We think there are a lot of those kinds of people and we're going to be working really hard to find them and raise their awareness of EVE - that's a pretty short but accurate summary of our marketing program. I agree with you that the experience as a new player in EVE has a lot of room for improvement. We're making slow but steady progress in making that experience better, but we have to be very careful that while we try to improve it we don't accidentally break something else that really matters for our committed players. EVE exists in a delicate equilibrium that needs to balance the needs of new players to have some space to learn the game and learn about the way people play the game, and the needs of committed players who want to pursue their "sandbox" objectives. Those needs come into conflict when the "sandbox" play reduces the quality of the experience for new players. There is no silver bullet to resolve this conflict. Incremental, careful change is the only safe path forward. RyanD

Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.09.08 21:15:00 - [43] Edited by: Tchell Dahhn on 08/09/2008 21:15:46 Originally by: CCP RyanD EVE exists in a delicate equilibrium that needs to balance the needs of new players to have some space to learn the game and learn about the way people play the game, and the needs of committed players who want to pursue their "sandbox" objectives. Those needs come into conflict when the "sandbox" play reduces the quality of the experience for new players. Speaking from my experience, had I found the game to not be the sandbox when I joined, seven short months ago, I would have quickly lost interest in it altogether. While I do agree that players starting the game could do with some things to assist them, I'm firmly against making Empire Space 100% safe. Originally by: CCP RyanD There is no silver bullet to resolve this conflict. Incremental, careful change is the only safe path forward. You hit it on the head, but I would also add that this 'careful change' of which you speak must address the needs and wants of all players fairly, and not from any one side. Simply buffing Lowsec/Nullsec play while removing abilities in Empire Space will not keep the Sandbox Player Base. We're Recruiting!
SSgt Sniper Gallente MAIDS	Posted - 2008.09.08 21:24:00 - [44] Edited by: SSgt Sniper on 08/09/2008 21:25:15 Originally by: suiu Edited by: suiu on 08/09/2008 19:17:44 EVE is successful because it's the only game in town. If Earth and Beyond didn't get canceled EVE probably won't be here today. And it took EVE 5 years to reach 250k subs, that's not impressive at all. I personally have invited 4 friends to try out EVE and none of them have stayed. Most of the complains are exactly what the OP stated. Just thinking about the amount of people EVE fails to retain, it amazes me how much potential money they might be losing. But as long as EVE is the only Space MMO on the market, it will be fine. After two years and slamming into lagwalls all over 0.0 and once or twice in empire as well, ^this tbh. I am hopeful that another spaceship based mmo does come along that is similar (without being the same) as eve. Especially since EVE s going the way of every other MMO with the stupid ambulation stuff. (And the forum *****s are trying to convince them to make walking about mandatory before it's even released). I for one plan to never exit my little pod of goo, and the day CCP forces me to do so for any reason, that's my final straw with the game. EVE has some solid concepts but has struggled to make it work like it's supposed to in so many ways for so many years, I'm really surprised it survived. I'm glad it has, since there's not another good space mmo out there to replace it, but honestly that day will eventually come. Oh and Star Trek Online will not be it. ------- CEO of Maids. No I didn't pick the name. I've grown rather fond of it though.
Pan Crastus Anti-Metagaming League	Posted - 2008.09.08 21:27:00 - [45] Originally by: CCP RyanD We're not desperate but we are working hard to get new players. The TV advertisements are a test of a strategy to try and reach people that we think would like EVE but who aren't MMO players and are unlikely to see our advertising elsewhere. Please fix the lag. Word of mouth will bring you a lot of new and old players then, because one can actually recommend EVE again. What do we tell people who say "but I heard that you will usually just lag out and die without seeing anything in PVP"? How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
Synapse Archae Amarr Demonic Retribution Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.09.08 21:30:00 - [46] Edited by: Synapse Archae on 08/09/2008 21:30:38 Originally by: SSgt Sniper After two years and slamming into lagwalls all over 0.0 and once or twice in empire as well, ^this tbh. I am hopeful that another spaceship based mmo does come along that is similar (without being the same) as eve. Especially since EVE s going the way of every other MMO with the stupid ambulation stuff. (And the forum ***s are trying to convince them to make walking about mandatory before it's even released). I for one plan to never exit my little pod of goo, and the day CCP forces me to do so for any reason, that's my final straw with the game. EVE has some solid concepts but has struggled to make it work like it's supposed to in so many ways for so many years, I'm really surprised it survived. I'm glad it has, since there's not another good space mmo out there to replace it, but honestly that day will eventually come. Oh and Star Trek Online will not be it. You have no idea how good you have it here, do you? Go try some other MMOs for a while. if "Making a better game" was so easy, it would have been done already. CCP is the only game in town because they are the best game in town, and they take more and smarter risks than others are willing to. Originally by:** CCP Garthagk While these forums may not give you everything that you want, they will usually let you post.
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.09.08 21:40:00 - [47] Originally by: Roy Batty68 Oh, my giddy aunt Gertrude... You didn't just go there, did you? Here's a few concepts for you: - Eve = niche game - Eve != typical MMO - Turning Eve into typical MMO would just make it an epically boring typical MMO. - What made Eve as successful as it is today, is exactly what you are pointing out as negatives. = All that adds up to Eve probably not being the game for you. That's ok. No, really it is ok. Ever pass something like an S&M shop with assless chaps and whips and whatnot in the window. Ever see one of the Village People come out of it and you just shake your head and think, "wow... what freaks"? Did you ever feel inclined to go inside and demand that the shop keeper remove all his merchandise and start selling sports equipment? Or did you ever consider just how it is possible that such a crazy store could remain in business? Now I'm not suggesting that Eve is an S&M shop... And frankly, I blame Sheriff Jones for me even bringing it up, BUT! it does apply in a weird way. There are things in life that are just not for you. It happens. Why would you join something successful, something holding it's own, and start demanding changes so it's more fitting *for you? Demanding that it change into something else. Why not just *** off to two doors down and get your tennis racquet from Steve's Sports Shop instead of demanding that Freaky Freddy make you one out of leather thongs? See what you did? You got me so worked up I've gone right off my meds. I'm gonna go take an Advil and watch some Red Dwarf. In the meantime, you think about them thongs... Or maybe read this. Its an oldy but a goody: Stay the Course, Man You win forums for the day!
Major PewPew The Dark Horses	Posted - 2008.09.08 21:46:00 - [48] Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake Edited by: Mordekai Bloodwake on 08/09/2008 13:47:30 Last night my kids run and tell me they saw the game i play on a TV commercial, Well the TV Commercial was in fact Eve-Online the problem is that the commercial was on the cartoon network! Ok so here's my problem; First - Eve-Online continues to push away new players, i would say 8 to 9 out of 10 players will not renew or go past their trial buddy programs due to harsh and non-new-player friendly environment Eve has become. Second - Most new players (and im talking about the masses from other MMO's) DO NOT find it fun when killed without a chance to defend them selves. (this is a major issue that plagues new players). Third - Bully corps, There are corps that specifically target smaller and new corps with the sole purpose of increasing their kill ratio, meaning a group of players from X MMO come to Eve, then form their own personal corp to have fun then get war dec'd by a much more seasoned corp and ****d time and time again before even allowing the new player corp to get a chance to learn the game mechanics of Eve or to even begin to have fun. (yes there are players that like to keep to their own corp and being part of an alliance is not something they want to participate in). I have invited so many friends from other MMO's i play in the past few years playing Eve and many that have tried only a few have stuck with the game due to the 3 main issues above. CCP if you plan to increase the player base (which business suggest you do in order to increase profit) please know you need to be more new player friendly, treating new players as canon fodder for older players that can afford ship losses or simply want to increase their kill ratio is not fun nor will it attract a larger player base, instead Eve will continue to be niche with a very limited number of player subscriptions and although most of the PvP gank shuttle popping fanbuis enjoy it, it will mean less money for Eve to continue expanding. I would also say trying to attract kids that watch the cartoon network into Eve-Online will only add more to the new player death toll. Just my .0001 ISK. Non-Noob friendly? someone missed the recent concord buff patch. Also, read those patch notes and see how they improved the new player experience. WTS: A Clue...because, you sir, dont have one.
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.08 21:46:00 - [49] Originally by: CCP RyanD Those needs come into conflict when the "sandbox" play reduces the quality of the experience for new players. There is no silver bullet to resolve this conflict. Incremental, careful change is the only safe path forward. RyanD yeah, yeah we get the message already. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Piru Industrial	Posted - 2008.09.08 21:47:00 - [50] op needs to not post on the forums anymore metal legs
ScaR97731	Posted - 2008.09.08 21:56:00 - [51] Originally by: Yurname Here Originally by: Somealt Ofmine CCP has to walk a tightrope of keeping the gankers happy while providing enough mechanics that lets the gankee figure out how to avoid it before they give up and quit. As you have seen in these forums, anything that deters ganking will result in a shit-storm of protest from the player base, so they have to tread lightly with this. LMFAO. Considering this forum is DOMINATED by gankers of course they'll cry a frickin river of tears. I've never seen a forum of louder whiners in my life and it's all the gankers. Get me a boat, I'm drowning in gank tears. The OP is correct but it will never matter. Nuff said. ROFL!!!! SO very true.
Claudia Voltaire	Posted - 2008.09.09 04:39:00 - [52] Originally by: CCP RyanD We're not desperate but we are working hard to get new players. While i and we will have to take you're word at face value on that, i would like to call in to question one of your main advertisments you place on multiple gamming sites. I find it deceptive and missleading that you claim in the advert that you have 250000 players, which isn't the case, as you care to admit you have around 250000 (subscriptions) at an average of 2 accounts per subscription. The average ofcourse not being an actual true reflection of how many players you do have, which will number far less as many people take out 3rd and 4th accounts and beyond. Also featured in the same add 'click to play for free now' While correct in a sense, the majority (if not all) online add's for other mmo's make reference to that free play as being the trial. Obviously as im sure you're aware, most mmo's using the straight 'play for free' banner are actualy the true free ones. I would imagine that you advertise in such a manner because of the situation with game time for isk, but it's still deceptive and misleading non the less. My issue anyway, facts are there, 250k players you don't have (the add says you do) eve isn't free to play beyond the trial (id suggest you ammend the add making that clear)
Rawr Cristina Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2008.09.09 04:53:00 - [53] EVE is being advertised all over the damn place now. I'm concerned because most are either going to be turned off by the harsh nature of EVE, or not even discover that harsh nature and be turned off by the completely boring PvE Hi-sec grind... - Infectious -
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.09 04:58:00 - [54] Originally by: Rawr Cristina EVE is being advertised all over the damn place now. I'm concerned because most are either going to be turned off by the harsh nature of EVE, or not even discover that harsh nature and be turned off by the completely boring PvE Hi-sec grind... If you've come to EvE for the PvE ... you've come to the wrong place Originally by: CCP Greyscale consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.09.09 05:25:00 - [55] Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake ...will only add more to the new player death toll. A new player death toll is an EXCELLENT idea. Like griefwatch/battleclinic, it will show what idiot noob died and how. Omg I would totally put a new player death toll in my sig, epic. -- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Ehronn Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.09.09 06:05:00 - [56] I had tried the trial account a couple years ago but was never able to get into the game. Of course things different now, but the hardest part as a newb is getting those learning skills out of the way takes quite a bit of time. And I know what kept me in high sec all the time was the 24 hour timer on jumpclones but that's just cause I'm too greedy or carebearish I guess to jumpclone into a pvp set to make a 20-30 min run thru lowsec/0.0 get killed or bored then wait 24 hours to get back into my +5 clone hehe. So I'd rather just stay in the +5's and use my alt :) if that jumpclone timer was reduced or maybe make a skill you could train to reduce the timer would really help I think. cause I know some of my friends just think it's not worth risking the implants and don't want to jumpclone over for pvp trip that could last from 20mins to an hour or 2 depending on success and spend the rest of the 24 hours waiting to jump back. of course that's just greed and laziness hehe. but doing something with those 2, jumpclones and learning skills I think would really help things out a lot. of course that's just my noob opinion. ----------------------- Dysfunctional Playground
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.09.09 06:14:00 - [57] Originally by: Ehronn ...So I'd rather just stay in the +5's and use my alt :) if that jumpclone timer was reduced or maybe make a skill you could train to reduce the timer would really help I think... Part of my EVE me died the day they introduced jumpclones, further watering down EVE to where there is no point trying to hunt someone down whatsoever will only serve to make it all the more unappealing to all. Be careful what you wish for seems apt. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Ehronn Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.09.09 06:20:00 - [58] very true, I can see good points to both sides. That's the hard part I guess... sorta like that old saying: You can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you canÆt please all of the people all of the time. ----------------------- Dysfunctional Playground
Elise Masutra Tleilex Manufacturing	Posted - 2008.09.09 06:53:00 - [59] The core of the games has to stay the way it is. That is what EVE makes EVE. When I started back in 2004 I was hooked despite not having any kind of "new player experience". What intrigued me was that I knew that anybody anywhere can totally screw me over, but so could I I had my good share of getting killed and bully corps, but in the end I'm still and did have fun all the way. So no dumbing down of the game! EVE has grown since release without attracting the masses who look for a WoW in space.
Fouljin	Posted - 2008.09.09 07:02:00 - [60] Just my 2 ISK's. It's funny how first argument about World of warcratfs superiority is the 10 million subs. Try to speculate how many of those subs are actual active players and how many are goldfarmers! Eve is not that harsh to new player as long as he takes some time to get familiar to eve's world. For new player going alone in nullnull or lowsec is always a deathwish! You can easily use map to see podkills/shipkills for past hour. Every time I have ventured to lowsec or nullnull (low sec i mean 0.2 -0-1) I have got my ship turned to fireball. If you are in lowsec and local chat is full of pilots with negative sec status and bounty on their ass you are looking for trouble! If you stay at high sec you are quite safe! And pve is boring at least when doing lvl 1 missions. Lvl 4 and lvl 5 missions are something else! Also some lvl3 missions can give good challenge to new player. For all new players I have only this to say: RTFM!! Roses are #FF0000, Violets are ##0000FF, all my base are belong to you...
Solomunio Kzenig Amarr VITOC	Posted - 2008.09.09 07:12:00 - [61] Originally by: Amy Wang I think a lot of the long time subscribers including me fear that Eve will be evolving from a "harsh" niche-game to CCP's cash cow to finance the development of their new favourite child world of darkness and will become much less "harsh" and "nichey" for that. Imho there is nothing wrong with ganking, scamming, suiciding (relatively) new players, on the contrary, they either learn from the experience or realize the game is not for them. But in my experience most newish people, corps or alliances dont quit but adapt and become better, in fact being picked on was doing them a favour in the end, they became better players because of it (yes, I'm serious). Take the recent suicide ganking nerf for example: I used to afk haul expensive modules (worth a couple 100m) in frigs, got suicided a few times back in the days. Nowadays I use well fitted t2 transports for this kind of cargo, before the suicide ganking nerf I got shot at in those ships a lot still, but the attacker was never successful - because I put the effort in to train for the correct ships and put some thought into equipping it. Why should a new player now with the nerf have the same security for much smaller effort hauling in a frig or t1 hauler? Doesnt seem fair really - I say bring back the old concord and let suicide gankers punish the dumb and lazy again! ^^This
Khalm Kevyt Osasto 7	Posted - 2008.09.09 07:32:00 - [62] is this a nerf lvl4 missions thread? ---
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.09 07:33:00 - [63] No, it's a give new players 10M SP and a pony thread. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Sicil Fioet Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.09 07:37:00 - [64] Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake Eve-Online continues to push away new players, i would say 8 to 9 out of 10 players will not renew or go past their trial buddy programs due to harsh and non-new-player friendly environment Eve has become. If only 1-2 out of 10 new players have the ability to adapt when being outclassed and are smart enough to figure out the old eve adage that goes "don't fly what you cannot afford" on their own i say welcome to these guys. And the rest ... well consider that TQ will not hold up performance if EVE held interest of those other 8-9 guys (yes I am basically saying less lag for us).
fuze Gallente Chosen Path Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.09.09 09:44:00 - [65] If I was a new player I'd be turned off by the buggy client and mucho lag.
Dr Sheepbringer	Posted - 2008.09.09 09:52:00 - [66] As for noob corps getting whacked. They could just make it so that noob corps can't be war decced untill 2-3months for example or something like that. One way could be to count the SP of members and calculate the "strength" of a corp and thus use that was a rank for war dec, but that wouldn't work. Good example is the goons (when they started). One could though calculate the noob corp "before anyone can wardec them" time based on SP. If they have two players with 60mil SP, then they could be wardecced instantly, if they have guys with 2mil SP then...longer. If they have 200 members with 2mil SP, war dec instantly. Only an idea though.
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2008.09.09 09:54:00 - [67] Edited by: SoftRevolution on 09/09/2008 09:55:47 Quote: I agree with you that the experience as a new player in EVE has a lot of room for improvement. We're making slow but steady progress in making that experience better, but we have to be very careful that while we try to improve it we don't accidentally break something else that really matters for our committed players. EVE exists in a delicate equilibrium that needs to balance the needs of new players to have some space to learn the game and learn about the way people play the game, and the needs of committed players who want to pursue their "sandbox" objectives. Those needs come into conflict when the "sandbox" play reduces the quality of the experience for new players. I was pretty impressed by some of what you'd added in. The "You're leaving a tutorial system" and "For the love of god insure your ship, nubbins" pop-ups you added were nice touches. Definitely steps in the right direction. EVE RELATED CONTENT
Mordekai Bloodwake Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.09 11:58:00 - [68] Originally by: CCP RyanD We're not desperate but we are working hard to get new players. The TV advertisements are a test of a strategy to try and reach people that we think would like EVE but who aren't MMO players and are unlikely to see our advertising elsewhere. We think there are a lot of those kinds of people and we're going to be working really hard to find them and raise their awareness of EVE - that's a pretty short but accurate summary of our marketing program. I agree with you that the experience as a new player in EVE has a lot of room for improvement. We're making slow but steady progress in making that experience better, but we have to be very careful that while we try to improve it we don't accidentally break something else that really matters for our committed players. EVE exists in a delicate equilibrium that needs to balance the needs of new players to have some space to learn the game and learn about the way people play the game, and the needs of committed players who want to pursue their "sandbox" objectives. Those needs come into conflict when the "sandbox" play reduces the quality of the experience for new players. There is no silver bullet to resolve this conflict. Incremental, careful change is the only safe path forward. RyanD Although i completely understand (well at least from what you stated), The unfortunate fact in todays MMO industry is that the majority of "casual internet" users that currently do not play MMO's tend to play short fast paced games or simply have no time to play video games, and the few that do play DO NOT spend time building, saving and working towards items that can simply be taken away as it happens in Eve due to its hard death system on new players (older players excluded due to financial gain over X years of play and/or X years of corp membership which allow them to simply replace losses). On the other hand, once again unfortunately the MMO industry has shifted into a nasty cookie-cut recipe of what is "perceived" to be an MMO, note the trend in games since the huge success of WoW and the similarities along the way, even WAR which is supposed to be a PvP centric game doesn't have the hard death system Eve has and yet before release has managed to attract near 1mil beta subscribers in less than half the time it has taken Eve to accumulate current subscriber base! I guess at the end of the day its the goal of the company in terms of what to reach for or develop a second MMO and infuse the company with new cash flow or simply continue to "cater to the needs of committed players" and never reach the subscriber base Eve deserves. At the end of the day todays industry (unfortunately) doesn't have room for a 'niche' hardcore PvP with a terrible death penalty system. Im only speaking about masses and not the gamer that reads forums. Either way CCP decides to take their efforts as a company and their product(s) i will continue to support the idea.
VicturusTeSaluto Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.09.09 12:04:00 - [69] Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake Third - Bully corps, There are corps that specifically target smaller and new corps with the sole purpose of increasing their kill ratio, meaning a group of players from X MMO come to Eve, then form their own personal corp to have fun then get war dec'd by a much more seasoned corp and ****d time and time again before even allowing the new player corp to get a chance to learn the game mechanics of Eve or to even begin to have fun. (yes there are players that like to keep to their own corp and being part of an alliance is not something they want to participate in). These guys are carrying out a vital public service and they have my full support. The lessons these noobs will learn are far more valuable than anything they lose to "bullies."
sukio	Posted - 2008.09.13 13:15:00 - [70] eve has an insanly high learning curve only made worse by the ability to GRIEF them and get them BLOWN up before they are even hours old. you should give noobs some form of immunity to distruction and ban their access to lowsec space until they complete some quest or reach a certain level... you also need to GREATLY improve the chat ability as its currently very difficult to talk to noobs or for them to ask for help localy as most are in their NPC corp chat and not the local chat and there is no "SAY" chat so you can shout at the noob 100m away from you in an astroid belt. I know I tried to goto the noob astroid belts to help mine for the noobs and found it very fustrating.. and noobs have stated to me what a pain it was on the overcrowded help channel with text shooting by. and many of the activities for players to do are about as much fun as a tax siminar or directly LETHAL even if they wanted to tinker with fighting or PVP they are killed like flies they exit the game BEFORE THE 14 DAYS ARE EVEN UP! and i dont blame them one bit! CCP WAKE UP! EVE PVP is out of control and is hurting EVE and CCP
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.13 13:21:00 - [71] Originally by: sukio eve has an insanly high learning curve only made worse by the ability to GRIEF them and get them BLOWN up before they are even hours old. you should give noobs some form of immunity to distruction and ban their access to lowsec space until they complete some quest or reach a certain level... you also need to GREATLY improve the chat ability as its currently very difficult to talk to noobs or for them to ask for help localy as most are in their NPC corp chat and not the local chat and there is no "SAY" chat so you can shout at the noob 100m away from you in an astroid belt. I know I tried to goto the noob astroid belts to help mine for the noobs and found it very fustrating.. and noobs have stated to me what a pain it was on the overcrowded help channel with text shooting by. and many of the activities for players to do are about as much fun as a tax siminar or directly LETHAL even if they wanted to tinker with fighting or PVP they are killed like flies they exit the game BEFORE THE 14 DAYS ARE EVEN UP! and i dont blame them one bit! CCP WAKE UP! Sorry, but you were warned in the new player guide, in the in-game tutorial, even on their intro website ... EvE was harsh, and you could die anywhere, anytime you undocked. No immunity for anyone. Not because I hate new players, quite the contrary. But if you provide immunity for them, then players like YOU, Sukio, are going to want it later, because you've never developed far enough, mentally, to handle the challenge of living in a world where your actions and your losses MATTER. "All I do is mine! I should be immune from PvP!" Fact is, it's this new, weak-willed playerbase that needs to wake up and read the fine print. Its all over the place, and when you come on the boards complaining and attempting to ruin the game for other players in order to suit YOU?! Originally by: CCP Greyscale consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
sukio	Posted - 2008.09.13 13:30:00 - [72] Originally by: Sarin Adler Edited by: Sarin Adler on 08/09/2008 16:01:04 It's fine as it is, I find all these thingies to act as filters and it's fine. Heck it probably was much harder in the past. Also I don't think is so hard to start as a new player, hi-sec is very safe indeed, and the learning curve is ok (edit: once you integrate in the game and play with experienced players). Filters are good. Advertising in CN is a bit weird have to agree with that one. A game with a playerbase of 260k subscribers, and probably 3< million players on 5 years is not that much niche. Indeed EVE is very popular compared to 99% of MMOG (WoW being that 1%). man are you kidding? 260k subscribers and you think thats alot for an MMO? most of the MMOs running right now that are mainstreem are 10-100x larger than EVE as for WOW 3-4 servers exceed EVE one of eves biggest draws,even though the devs dont recognise it is EVEs complex depth of play and not the brutaly raw PVP the PVP is crippling EVE forcing it smaller and smaller around its hardcore pvp gankers and pushing the NONPVPers to other games to be out soon like star trek or possibly jumpgate or hopefully any other player friendly eve like game). to me low sec is a poison area,, id delete it out of my game if I could and any content created there simply doesnt exist, it might as well be written for a different title EVEil. EVE is pretty unique and we want to keep it as it is, we don't need an other WoW clone with the same stupid audience. There are allready too much useless guys in EVE, don't need more. If you can't learn go to other game, it's fine for me. EVE PVP is out of control and is hurting EVE and CCP
Sidus Isaacs	Posted - 2008.09.13 13:38:00 - [73] Originally by: CCP RyanD The ad you saw was running on Adult Swim, which has a great demographic for EVE: 20-30 year olds, not many kids. Aye. Adult swim has lots of funny stuff. My favorite is Robot Chicken :P And indeed, my corp consists of a lot of older players, I think I may be the youngest at 24. And for OP: I never had any problems when I joined up. I never got "grifed", I got to know some folks and after 10 days I was in a player corp (that got disbanded a few days later), and we formed the current corp I am in.
sukio	Posted - 2008.09.13 13:46:00 - [74] [[Make Interbus deliver your goods within the constellation for a small fee, also increase the extra cost when putting up contracts (or maybe even market orders). The current extra fine needed seems not to work.]] what CCP needs to do is create better represented supply and demand visuals in the market so that players can haul from high surplus areas to high demand areas currently the market is crude and chaotic I like to refer to them as hoppers its an easy way to tell if a certain area is low medium or high on its stock.. also stations need to have some sort of identity in what its needs are and produces are they factories? farms? mines? ect. that does bereye II do that averon VII doesnt? how are they different? (there not) EVE PVP is out of control and is hurting EVE and CCP
sukio	Posted - 2008.09.13 13:57:00 - [75] "Eventually the "uniqueness" will result in a negative growth." You've yet to demonstrate this with empirical data. EVE has been growing for years and the trend is not changing. Indeed I don't know if the hardware that there is right now could hole more thank 50k online players at once without blatant lag everywhere in the universe. So... WoW in space is not happening, at least not yet. only because EVE is lucky enough to exist in a vertual GAME VACUME as SWG is the ONLY OTHER SCIFI SPACE GAME AVAILABLE so you got the choice between **** in one hand or razerblades in the other. once other games hit the market especially if they do a good job on star trek online? EVE will become a PVP only DESERT! and will end up closing like earth and beyond. EVE PVP is out of control and is hurting EVE and CCP
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.13 14:05:00 - [76] Edited by: Ruze on 13/09/2008 14:05:08 Originally by: sukio only because EVE is lucky enough to exist in a vertual GAME VACUME as SWG is the ONLY OTHER SCIFI SPACE GAME AVAILABLE so you got the choice between ** in one hand or razerblades in the other. once other games hit the market especially if they do a good job on star trek online? EVE will become a PVP only DESERT! and will end up closing like earth and beyond. Funny, I think you vastly underestimate the number of players who have chosen to play this game for years (myself with three), who enjoy it as a PvP game with great PvE as background. Course, every human being has to assume that 'everyone is with him', so to speak. We all think we are the majority, and assume that that majority think and feel like us. It let's us convince ourselves that we are somehow 'normal' and not an 'exception', but the rule. I'm as guilty of this as everyone. However, even SWG has better PvE than EvE. For a game that has existed for five years (EvE, that is), and has experienced a constant player growth with this horrible PvE system? Yeah, I think we'll be good, because no other game on the development circles is going to even try to touch the realism and immersion of EvE. Plus, EvE is the only game on the market that somehow convinces you to keep your account running while your playing another game on the side, just to keep your skills in check. Weird, hunh? Genius if you ask me. Originally by:** CCP Greyscale consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2008.09.13 14:10:00 - [77] Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake Edited by: Mordekai Bloodwake on 08/09/2008 13:47:30 Last night my kids run and tell me they saw the game i play on a TV commercial, Well the TV Commercial was in fact Eve-Online the problem is that the commercial was on the cartoon network! Ok so here's my problem; First - Eve-Online continues to push away new players, i would say 8 to 9 out of 10 players will not renew or go past their trial buddy programs due to harsh and non-new-player friendly environment Eve has become. Second - Most new players (and im talking about the masses from other MMO's) DO NOT find it fun when killed without a chance to defend them selves. (this is a major issue that plagues new players). Third - Bully corps, There are corps that specifically target smaller and new corps with the sole purpose of increasing their kill ratio, meaning a group of players from X MMO come to Eve, then form their own personal corp to have fun then get war dec'd by a much more seasoned corp and **d time and time again before even allowing the new player corp to get a chance to learn the game mechanics of Eve or to even begin to have fun. (yes there are players that like to keep to their own corp and being part of an alliance is not something they want to participate in). I have invited so many friends from other MMO's i play in the past few years playing Eve and many that have tried only a few have stuck with the game due to the 3 main issues above. CCP if you plan to increase the player base (which business suggest you do in order to increase profit) please know you need to be more new player friendly, treating new players as canon fodder for older players that can afford ship losses or simply want to increase their kill ratio is not fun nor will it attract a larger player base, instead Eve will continue to be niche with a very limited number of player subscriptions and although most of the PvP gank shuttle popping fanbuis enjoy it, it will mean less money for Eve to continue expanding. I would also say trying to attract kids that watch the cartoon network into Eve-Online will only add more to the new player death toll. Just my .0001 ISK. PLEASE go die in a fire! asking for EVE to be totally messed up like that way proves you are not worthy staying with us! Originally by:** Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL
sukio	Posted - 2008.09.13 14:12:00 - [78] Originally by: CCP RyanD EVE exists in a delicate equilibrium that needs to balance the needs of new players to have some space to learn the game and learn about the way people play the game, and the needs of committed players who want to pursue their "sandbox" objectives. Those needs come into conflict when the "sandbox" play reduces the quality of the experience for new players. There is no silver bullet to resolve this conflict. Incremental, careful change is the only safe path forward. RyanD especially when the sandbox is filled with 250lb bullies kicking sand in the face of everyone smaller that dares to try to play in "their sandbox" EVE PVP is out of control and is hurting EVE and CCP
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.13 14:17:00 - [79] Originally by: sukio Originally by: CCP RyanD EVE exists in a delicate equilibrium that needs to balance the needs of new players to have some space to learn the game and learn about the way people play the game, and the needs of committed players who want to pursue their "sandbox" objectives. Those needs come into conflict when the "sandbox" play reduces the quality of the experience for new players. There is no silver bullet to resolve this conflict. Incremental, careful change is the only safe path forward. RyanD especially when the sandbox is filled with 250lb bullies kicking sand in the face of everyone smaller that dares to try to play in "their sandbox" Course, those smaller kids also have full rights within the rules of our sandbox to arm themselves to teeth and punch that bully in the crotch. Don't choose to be a victim. Take measures to protect and defend yourself, instead of lamenting to CCP to do it for you. Originally by: CCP Greyscale consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2008.09.13 14:18:00 - [80] Originally by: sukio Originally by: CCP RyanD EVE exists in a delicate equilibrium that needs to balance the needs of new players to have some space to learn the game and learn about the way people play the game, and the needs of committed players who want to pursue their "sandbox" objectives. Those needs come into conflict when the "sandbox" play reduces the quality of the experience for new players. There is no silver bullet to resolve this conflict. Incremental, careful change is the only safe path forward. RyanD especially when the sandbox is filled with 250lb bullies kicking sand in the face of everyone smaller that dares to try to play in "their sandbox" Actually thats complete bullshit! Eve have always been craving around totally chaos and destruction, and the game have always had its "bullies", like M00. If you dont like them, kill em! Thats why you got the guns! Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL
sukio	Posted - 2008.09.13 14:33:00 - [81] Sorry, but you were warned in the new player guide, in the in-game tutorial, even on their intro website ... EvE was harsh, and you could die anywhere, anytime you undocked. No immunity for anyone. Not because I hate new players, quite the contrary. But if you provide immunity for them, then players like YOU, Sukio, are going to want it later, because you've never developed far enough, mentally, to handle the challenge of living in a world where your actions and your losses MATTER. "All I do is mine! I should be immune from PvP!" Fact is, it's this new, weak-willed playerbase that needs to wake up and read the fine print. Its all over the place, and when you come on the boards complaining and attempting to ruin the game for other players in order to suit YOU?! so if we dont want to be in your MASTER RACE get the hell out eh? and go to what other space mmo? its the guys the imature brains that ruin the enjoyment of the game for anyone that cant or wont fight you eh? not a very good argument for keeping eve profitable. when there are no more miners or haulers how will you get your ships? buy them from the farmers? of course we allready know that CCP employees have been on the side of PVPers all along like in the bob swarm conflict so I guess the deck is stacked agains the casual player. but we at least have to try to get the devs or shareholders to see the light. EVE PVP is out of control and is hurting EVE and CCP
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.13 14:42:00 - [82] Originally by: sukio so if we dont want to be in your MASTER RACE get the hell out eh? and go to what other space mmo? its the guys the imature brains that ruin the enjoyment of the game for anyone that cant or wont fight you eh? not a very good argument for keeping eve profitable. when there are no more miners or haulers how will you get your ships? buy them from the farmers? of course we allready know that CCP employees have been on the side of PVPers all along like in the bob swarm conflict so I guess the deck is stacked agains the casual player. but we at least have to try to get the devs or shareholders to see the light. Sorry sister, but I'm a carebear! I sit in hisec (sometimes in losec) and do missions all day. I'm perfectly happy with the PvP nature of this world, and I wish to GOD you and people like you would stop trying to change the game principles because you are unable to face the fact that you are responsible for protecting YOURSELF. Every game I've ever played, which includes most MMO's on the market today, has had idiots. Now, most developers realize that their customerbase is not emotionally capable of defending itself from these idiots. They write program and code to whatever their definition of morality is. EvE is different, as it allows the PLAYER to define his morality. It's freedom, pure and simple. I ask you to enjoy it for what it is, because only in EvE can you truly value someone who's a good person, because they have nobody MAKING them be one. As I have said, for FIVE YEARS EvE has continued to steadily grow in populations. The CCP guys make enough money to buy other companies and produce other games! Profitable? Hah! If more people understood business economics, they would know that the 'broadest customer base' marketing scheme only has room for one major power per industry. WallMart. McDonalds. Starbucks. Blizzard. The vastly more profitable marketing scheme, and more viable, is called 'niche' marketing ... providing a specific product to a specific individual types of wants and needs. And please, industrialists by and large have a tendency to be much harsher on each other than even pirates! Industry IS PvP, all throughout! Traders are one of the only professions in the game that can survive JUST off of PvP. Oh, and how do you explain all those miners and producers and industrialists who live in losec and nulsec? They must HATE PvP! I mean, how could someone possibly enjoy both?
Jessica Lorelei Minmatar Shiverau FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.09.13 14:48:00 - [83] noobs should be glad we even let them play at all sheeeesh...
sukio	Posted - 2008.09.13 14:49:00 - [84] Funny, I think you vastly underestimate the number of players who have chosen to play this game for years (myself with three), who enjoy it as a PvP game with great PvE as background. Course, every human being has to assume that 'everyone is with him', so to speak. We all think we are the majority, and assume that that majority think and feel like us. It let's us convince ourselves that we are somehow 'normal' and not an 'exception', but the rule. I'm as guilty of this as everyone. However, even SWG has better PvE than EvE. For a game that has existed for five years (EvE, that is), and has experienced a constant player growth with this horrible PvE system? Yeah, I think we'll be good, because no other game on the development circles is going to even try to touch the realism and immersion of EvE. Plus, EvE is the only game on the market that somehow convinces you to keep your account running while your playing another game on the side, just to keep your skills in check. Weird, hunh? Genius if you ask me. I think you vastly underestimated the number of players the are either warned away from EVE or quit within the first month. and as for SWG its SONY$$$ it is a shadow of its former self after loosing millions of its player base and sure there are people that play SWG either they are hardcore SW fans or PVPers or like me truge along trying to eek out a bit of entertainment under its current dismal version hoping that someday things will get better. I know im a minority because all the PVPers have forced out most of the rest of the casual players thats why the player council is stacked with PVPers and thats why I dont expect any meaningful industry fixes in the winter patch if they fix the contract system and create a postal system ill probably have a heart attack right now the contract system is a pirates wet dream create a contract with a high bond, going to a low sec system, and gank em when they arrive in their hauler, boom you get the kill AND the bond! and thats just the obvious way the system sucks make 15k but risk 12 million??? thats about as stupid as as some battleship pilot going AFK through lowsec space! EVE PVP is out of control and is hurting EVE and CCP
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2008.09.13 14:55:00 - [85] Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 13/09/2008 14:55:45 EVE Online have survived by the current game plan for over 5 years, and guess what: its growing! I dont have numbers on how many online games I have seen come and waned into insignificance while EVE is growing! Changing EVE will be the same as SWGs NGE! Also, dont change anything that is working! If you dont like the game as it is: go see another game! Wow! Warhammer! SWG! EQ! whatever I dont care! But leave EVE alone! We dont need idiots coming here trying to change the game which makes it unique and great! Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL
sukio	Posted - 2008.09.13 14:59:00 - [86] Course, those smaller kids also have full rights within the rules of our sandbox to arm themselves to teeth and punch that bully in the crotch. Don't choose to be a victim. Take measures to protect and defend yourself, instead of lamenting to CCP to do it for you. is that what you would say if some guy came around and kicked your kid in the face? "little buffy defend yourself" what would you say to her if when she tried to hit the man and he beat the crap outa her for her insolence? your just an ass and a bully and you want everyone to be the same pathetic s****as you so you will feel superior your probably in one of those gangs that beat up old ladys for their purse. in the realworld there are police in EVE all we have is CCP EVE PVP is out of control and is hurting EVE and CCP
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2008.09.13 15:06:00 - [87] Originally by: sukio Course, those smaller kids also have full rights within the rules of our sandbox to arm themselves to teeth and punch that bully in the crotch. Don't choose to be a victim. Take measures to protect and defend yourself, instead of lamenting to CCP to do it for you. is that what you would say if some guy came around and kicked your kid in the face? "little buffy defend yourself" what would you say to her if when she tried to hit the man and he beat the crap outa her for her insolence? your just an ass and a bully and you want everyone to be the same pathetic s**as you so you will feel superior your probably in one of those gangs that beat up old ladys for their purse. in the realworld there are police in EVE all we have is CCP Sorry to break it to you but EVE is a GAME! Yes, that is right! Its a fictional universe where you fly spaceships! For relative safty you have EMPIRE and NPC corps! Here you let your "children" grow up and get ready for the "real" world! When the kid is ready s/he is thrown out into the world in its spaceship. From there on its up to you. The loosers/the weak/the stupid are killed fast. The intelligent/the hardworking and the strong prevails. Even among the "children". You see they group up in corporations and alliances and kick back! For the "elders" the losses are more severe then for the "children". They fly better ships allright, but a loss of one of these might counts a hundred ships flewn by the youngesters! To sum it up: EVE is a world where you control your own destiny and where intelligent are the victorious! Originally by:** Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL
Lubomir Penev interimo	Posted - 2008.09.13 15:08:00 - [88] Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake LOL! My post was not to flame, it was due to the desperate act of "new player" recruitment being done in order to grow Eve-Online, the part CCP folks seem to leave out if their "ganking shuttle popping kill you with no chance to fight back" core game system that is NOT 'new player' friendly. A shuttle piloted by someone with a brain in working order is unkillable out of 0.0. "shuttle gankers" are merely culling the ******s. -- I'm done whining about AFs, it looks like they are making them right \o/
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.13 15:09:00 - [89] Originally by: sukio I think you vastly underestimated the number of players the are either warned away from EVE or quit within the first month. and as for SWG its SONY$$$ it is a shadow of its former self after loosing millions of its player base and sure there are people that play SWG either they are hardcore SW fans or PVPers or like me truge along trying to eek out a bit of entertainment under its current dismal version hoping that someday things will get better. I know im a minority because all the PVPers have forced out most of the rest of the casual players thats why the player council is stacked with PVPers and thats why I dont expect any meaningful industry fixes in the winter patch if they fix the contract system and create a postal system ill probably have a heart attack right now the contract system is a pirates wet dream create a contract with a high bond, going to a low sec system, and gank em when they arrive in their hauler, boom you get the kill AND the bond! and thats just the obvious way the system sucks make 15k but risk 12 million??? thats about as stupid as as some battleship pilot going AFK through lowsec space! If you lived through SWG's NGE, how in your right mind can you suggest such a thing for EvE? Cause yes, that is what you are suggesting. Do you think the guys arguing about FOTM templates and how imbalanced they thought PvP was on the old SWG forums thought THEY were arguing for an NGE? But it's what they got, because SOE tried to appeal to a different audience entirely. A good, solid game (diminished due to a poor release, Publish 9 jedi mechanics, CU upsetting the entire combat system). EvE is a solid game. Of course it doesn't appeal to everyone. You can't make everyone happy. It's IMPOSSIBLE! There is nothing wrong with a new player coming into the game, and realizing that it isn't something they enjoy. I did the same for WoW, and plenty of other games in between. There IS something wrong with a development team betraying the principles of a game, and screwing over players who have years of subscriptions and support, in order to appease a potential new playerbase. And when they listen to your suggestions (reading your other posts, not all are bad, mind you), they'll not only betray their current playerbase by taking away the game we love, the game that has 40k accounts and many paying for three or four accounts, but they'll also lose out to games designed specifically around the kind of weak-hearted principle your trying to instill. EvE will be nothing but a far older system trying to compete against newer systems designed around the 'zone' playstyle. Instead of a deep and immersive game universe that allows players the freedom to choose how and where they want to play (think the old template system in SWG, or the old faction wars in Bestine), it'll be a game that can't do either right. The freedom, and the balls of the developers to ignore the complaints of the insecure and allow players that freedom, is what makes EvE special. Otherwise, it's just another clone of a game premise that many players don't enjoy, anyhow! I mean, if I liked that kind of game, wouldn't I be playing it, instead of playing this? I could be playing SWG, which gets it kinda close, or WoW, who are the new templars of that era of gaming. But no, you want to ruin this game to fit your ideals. Sorry. Originally by: CCP Greyscale consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
Lubomir Penev interimo	Posted - 2008.09.13 15:12:00 - [90] Originally by: Dr Sheepbringer As for noob corps getting whacked. They could just make it so that noob corps can't be war decced untill 2-3months for example or something like that. What is the point of corps made of noobs? Plenty of corps with experienced players able to help will take them and the experience will be much better for them than being with other clueless people. And those corps can defend themselves. Most corps full of noobs I saw were done by one guy that discovered that training corporation management skills could lead him to a nice passive income. -- I'm done whining about AFs, it looks like they are making them right \o/
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.13 15:15:00 - [91] Edited by: Ruze on 13/09/2008 15:15:27 Originally by: sukio is that what you would say if some guy came around and kicked your kid in the face? "little buffy defend yourself" what would you say to her if when she tried to hit the man and he beat the crap outa her for her insolence? your just an ass and a bully and you want everyone to be the same pathetic s***as you so you will feel superior your probably in one of those gangs that beat up old ladys for their purse. in the realworld there are police in EVE all we have is CCP Now your applying realworld analogies? Sorry, if my kid was getting beaten up at school, his only option IS to defend himself. Those lies the teacher tells you, of how if you ignore them, they'll go away? They are lies. Governments and social systems only protect you so much, and then your a victim. Someone who refuses to take measures to protect themselves, to train in how to defend themselves or to arm themselves (applicable in the scenario of the woman, not the child, by the way) are CHOOSING to be victimized. They don't choose when or how it will happen, but they are choosing to allow it to happen successfully. And your now trying to insult me, and you know nothing about me! Maybe if you were able to differentiate between a real human being and an avatar, or if you were able to see the difference between in-game actions and out of game. One is fantasy! Myth, fake, imaginary! You are able to fly a fcking spaceship, and yet you still somehow have to cement every characters actions with some deepseated psychosis of the player themselves? Players do not equal characters, little one. That pirate in game is not a raving psychopath in real life. He's a church going father of three who loves his little girls, and has never even thought of committing a real crime. And he is mentally mature enough to recognize a virtual game world for what it is ... imagination and freedom. Originally by: CCP Greyscale consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
xStormwingx The Aftermath.	Posted - 2008.09.13 16:50:00 - [92] EVE commercial on Adult Swim? Is it uploaded online anywhere? I wanna see! -------
Qordel Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.09.13 17:12:00 - [93] The ad has also been running on the SciFi network (granted, there's almost no scifi on the network). My only concern is that it invites a lot of people to come check the game out and they'll get frustrated and give up due to the complete lack of thorough, singular documentation. While some of us may go through enormous hoops to hunt down various play created documents and maps and guides through the forums and external sites, a lot of people expect to join a game and have a "here's what you do" given to them. Yes, there is an in-game tutorial but there is still an enormous about of information left out and a lot of questions remain for new users. Even as simple as "okay . . . . so what exactly do I DO now?!". Of course, keeping up with eve documentation could probably fill an entire technical writing team within CCP.
Natsuki Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.09.13 19:30:00 - [94] Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake Edited by: Mordekai Bloodwake on 08/09/2008 13:47:30 Last night my kids run and tell me they saw the game i play on a TV commercial, Well the TV Commercial was in fact Eve-Online the problem is that the commercial was on the cartoon network! Ok so here's my problem; First - Eve-Online continues to push away new players, i would say 8 to 9 out of 10 players will not renew or go past their trial buddy programs due to harsh and non-new-player friendly environment Eve has become. Second - Most new players (and im talking about the masses from other MMO's) DO NOT find it fun when killed without a chance to defend them selves. (this is a major issue that plagues new players). Third - Bully corps, There are corps that specifically target smaller and new corps with the sole purpose of increasing their kill ratio, meaning a group of players from X MMO come to Eve, then form their own personal corp to have fun then get war dec'd by a much more seasoned corp and ****d time and time again before even allowing the new player corp to get a chance to learn the game mechanics of Eve or to even begin to have fun. (yes there are players that like to keep to their own corp and being part of an alliance is not something they want to participate in). I have invited so many friends from other MMO's i play in the past few years playing Eve and many that have tried only a few have stuck with the game due to the 3 main issues above. CCP if you plan to increase the player base (which business suggest you do in order to increase profit) please know you need to be more new player friendly, treating new players as canon fodder for older players that can afford ship losses or simply want to increase their kill ratio is not fun nor will it attract a larger player base, instead Eve will continue to be niche with a very limited number of player subscriptions and although most of the PvP gank shuttle popping fanbuis enjoy it, it will mean less money for Eve to continue expanding. I would also say trying to attract kids that watch the cartoon network into Eve-Online will only add more to the new player death toll. Just my .0001 ISK. wrong. if anything they are pushing away the veterans of this game. ----------------------------------- btw, threatening to close 1 account really hurt my eyes. - xaioguai
Mordekai Bloodwake Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.13 20:04:00 - [95] Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker PLEASE go die in a fire! asking for EVE to be totally messed up like that way proves you are not worthy staying with us! Ah yes to be young, dumb and ignorant. Did mommy and daddy help you put that sentence together? I can only imagine how you talk in real life .. "like one day ... like one time when i was at ... like the mall ... you know and like ... " geez!
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.09.13 21:16:00 - [96] Interesting misconceptions in this thread. CCP lose new players because of how harsh and unfair EVE is, thus it is broken - it's a niche game, but the signups are distributed across the total MMO demographic, not the niche, therefore the herd will be culled upon signup. NPE is working mostly as intended. EVE should cater to everyone because there are no other space MMOs - ha ha, no. CCP want to increase the playerbase, but they are nonetheless looking for people who want to play EVE, not WoW in Space. - DesuSigs
Trathen Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.09.13 21:21:00 - [97] Edited by: Trathen on 13/09/2008 21:21:42 High turnover is part of niche marketing, so you let as many people know about the product as possible. Even if one out of every hundred people end up subscribing, convincign 30 million to sign up for a trial account would double EvE's long-term playerbase. If you try to make it more like WoW, players will realize the same thing they did in every other MMORPG that tried: WoW is the best WoW. _
El Liptonez	Posted - 2008.09.13 22:30:00 - [98] Edited by: El Liptonez on 13/09/2008 22:32:28 Edited by: El Liptonez on 13/09/2008 22:31:27 Edited by: El Liptonez on 13/09/2008 22:30:42 Hope I meet the point of that topic. Just want to give you all my opinion of a 4.2 mil SP character. When I started EVE about 6 months ago, I went for everything without any chance to get behind the game mechanics. After being kicked out of my first player corp because they wanted to start PVP, I had lost any reason to play. But then I again started reading here and there all around, went online and tried to play again. Was in my NPC corp (and they are really nice guys answering each noobish question), everything was nice. Besides of being alone. So I stated a post in the recruitment forum, searching a PVP/0.0 space corporation. But then I went into a high sec (remember these words) corp for mining. Some days later two corporations declared war on us, one of them was a one-man player corp. He flies a battleship fitted for doing damage only, so no chance for players flying around in barges/exhumers. We cannot do anything. The fact isn't about losing a ship or being in war, it's just the fact that just someone can kill us without any reason without getting killed by CONCORD in 0.9 high sec space (noob space!). Killing us is just peanuts for him, but losing everyone's private ship in the game. Edit: He may even pod kill us. Kinda sucks.
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.13 22:35:00 - [99] Originally by: El Liptonez Edited by: El Liptonez on 13/09/2008 22:32:28 Edited by: El Liptonez on 13/09/2008 22:31:27 Edited by: El Liptonez on 13/09/2008 22:30:42 Hope I meet the point of that topic. Just want to give you all my opinion of a 4.2 mil SP character. When I started EVE about 6 months ago, I went for everything without any chance to get behind the game mechanics. After being kicked out of my first player corp because they wanted to start PVP, I had lost any reason to play. But then I again started reading here and there all around, went online and tried to play again. Was in my NPC corp (and they are really nice guys answering each noobish question), everything was nice. Besides of being alone. So I stated a post in the recruitment forum, searching a PVP/0.0 space corporation. But then I went into a high sec (remember these words) corp for mining. Some days later two corporations declared war on us, one of them was a one-man player corp. He flies a battleship fitted for doing damage only, so no chance for players flying around in barges/exhumers. We cannot do anything. The fact isn't about losing a ship or being in war, it's just the fact that just someone can kill us without any reason without getting killed by CONCORD in 0.9 high sec space (noob space!). Killing us is just peanuts for him, but losing everyone's private ship in the game. Edit: He may even pod kill us. Kinda sucks. 1 Guy? Luckily there is a solution.
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2008.09.13 22:37:00 - [100] Edited by: Terianna Eri on 13/09/2008 22:40:42 Originally by: El Liptonez Stuff. Spend a week, get one of you training for ECM, the rest of you in t1 gank cruisers (thoraxes are good). Next time he shows up, kill him, and take his stuff. Or hire mercenaries (you're a decent mining corp right? you can afford that), or move to a different system, or do something. By the way, you're six months old, you're easily old enough to not be a noob. So what are you doing in "noob space" then? EDIT: Second in a chain of 4+ posts sayin the same thing __________________________________ Originally by: Arthur Frayn How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.13 22:38:00 - [101] Originally by: El Liptonez Edited by: El Liptonez on 13/09/2008 22:32:28 Edited by: El Liptonez on 13/09/2008 22:31:27 Edited by: El Liptonez on 13/09/2008 22:30:42 Hope I meet the point of that topic. Just want to give you all my opinion of a 4.2 mil SP character. When I started EVE about 6 months ago, I went for everything without any chance to get behind the game mechanics. After being kicked out of my first player corp because they wanted to start PVP, I had lost any reason to play. But then I again started reading here and there all around, went online and tried to play again. Was in my NPC corp (and they are really nice guys answering each noobish question), everything was nice. Besides of being alone. So I stated a post in the recruitment forum, searching a PVP/0.0 space corporation. But then I went into a high sec (remember these words) corp for mining. Some days later two corporations declared war on us, one of them was a one-man player corp. He flies a battleship fitted for doing damage only, so no chance for players flying around in barges/exhumers. We cannot do anything. The fact isn't about losing a ship or being in war, it's just the fact that just someone can kill us without any reason without getting killed by CONCORD in 0.9 high sec space (noob space!). Killing us is just peanuts for him, but losing everyone's private ship in the game. Edit: He may even pod kill us. Kinda sucks. You have options. Is it the games fault that you fail to use them? Hire a merc corp to attack the single player. Hook up with an alliance that has combat corporations. Don't be defenseless! Your a miner, you participate in PvP every day! How do you convince yourself that one is good and the other is bad? If someone was out mining you, what would you do? 10 noobship frigates can pop that roaming battleship. That's with under three-months training in combat. The reason he can attack you, is because you are in EvE, and it's justified that he has a grievance with you. Maybe he was paid to do it, maybe he hates your race (in game), maybe he's a local thug trying to make it big. But YOU have plenty of options in defending yourself. You're not useless, and whoever told you that was lying. Then again, if you refuse to defend yourself, you're just choosing to be a victim. Originally by: CCP Greyscale consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.09.13 22:40:00 - [102] Edited by: Crumplecorn on 13/09/2008 22:40:38 Originally by: El Liptonez Some days later two corporations declared war on us, one of them was a one-man player corp. I'm shaking in my boots already. Originally by: El Liptonez He flies a battleship fitted for doing damage only A BS fit to do damage? A cunning opponent indeed. Originally by: El Liptonez We cannot do anything. Wrong. Originally by: El Liptonez it's just the fact that just someone can kill us without any reason without getting killed by CONCORD in 0.9 high sec space (noob space!) People can kill you in highsec? Stop the presses! All jokes aside, your point is basically that EVE is a nonconsensual multiplayer game. - DesuSigs
Trathen Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.13 22:49:00 - [103] Originally by: El Liptonez When I started EVE about 6 months ago, I went for everything without any chance to get behind the game mechanics. After being kicked out of my first player corp because they wanted to start PVP, I had lost any reason to play. But then I again started reading here and there all around, went online and tried to play again. Was in my NPC corp (and they are really nice guys answering each noobish question), everything was nice. Besides of being alone. So I stated a post in the recruitment forum, searching a PVP/0.0 space corporation. But then I went into a high sec (remember these words) corp for mining. Some days later two corporations declared war on us, one of them was a one-man player corp. He flies a battleship fitted for doing damage only, so no chance for players flying around in barges/exhumers. We cannot do anything. The fact isn't about losing a ship or being in war, it's just the fact that just someone can kill us without any reason without getting killed by CONCORD in 0.9 high sec space (noob space!). Killing us is just peanuts for him, but losing everyone's private ship in the game. Edit: He may even pod kill us. Kinda sucks. Please don't tell me it was a Raven, too. Without trying to brag, I am also only 6 (and a half) months old and I can think of many, many ways out of that. _
Belmarduk Amarr M.A.R.S. Enterprises Majesta Empire	Posted - 2008.09.14 00:19:00 - [104] Lets make it impossible to kill another player in 0,5 + . 1,0-0,8 it must be even more impossible to kill another player. Lets make items only bindable to characters. Lets have ONLY consentiol pvp in low sec and 0.0. Lets nerf lvl 4 missions and ratting in 0.0. Lets nerf everything we dont like or which is not our playstyle. How can a poor newb who mines in 1.0 EVER compete otherwise ?? Lets change this game into wow in space. Lets ruin this unique game because some newb-**s cant adapt and want ......another..... wow - clone.... Sorry for the harsh words but all this newb whining recently is starting to ** me off. Greetings Belmarduk Mainchar:
Jag Terran	Posted - 2008.09.14 02:57:00 - [105] 1) This is not a standalone issue, but rather something you derive from issues 2 and 3 2) Eve, like any MMO, has a pretty deterministic combat model, you never really actually have a chance unless you are pre-equipped to win a PvP engagement. You CAN avoid any engagement by staying in a noob corp and not leaving secure empire until you feel you are ready. Secure empire space does cover more star systems than you can shake a stick at, so you will still have plenty to do 3) Again, if you are a noob, there is noone forcing you to form a corp. Forming a successful corp is not a right in itself, but a step you take after much preparation and skill accumulation. If you definitely want a player corp early on, then join one that already is strong Finally, I won't bother to look up your character to see for how long you have played Eve, but it appears to me that you never were around when Eve was in its original form, i.e. when it took 3 months to mine for a battleship and when there would be no cheap insurance, no jump clones, no warp to zero, no long-range highways, no lock time nerf for big ships, etc etc. To be honest, those days were a lot more fun. No, we do not need a space version of WoW...
notaforumalt Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.09.14 03:16:00 - [106] i believe a free cruiser sized hull (like rookie but as soon as you get the cruiser skill you get cruiser instead, or have the choice) that is sub par to the tier 1 cruisers (read tier 1, not tech1) but still better than the rookie ship would help ALOT of players get into the game and not want to rush to bs (ive seen that soooo many times, ppl rush for bs) thats where eve loses, its the fact they want bs now, and dont know that they should fly smaller ships until thier skills match the ship. __________________________________________________ this is my sig, and i am not an alt hides
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.09.14 03:57:00 - [107] 1) GTFO sukio. 2) Nice post by CCP, good response. 3) I was a noob once and when I was less than 6 months old I was killing beta players in 1v1 and 1v2 situations and in those days, NOS was iwin and istab BS were unbeatable. New players have it insanely easy, if you cannot hack it then GTFO. -- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
ranrain	Posted - 2008.09.14 06:38:00 - [108] Edited by: ranrain on 14/09/2008 06:38:54 :) saw an ad on monday night football was cool
Mankirks Wife	Posted - 2008.09.14 06:53:00 - [109] Originally by: El Liptonez stuff Highsec is not noob space. Highsec is high security space. This is why I really don't support changing wardec mechanics - if one guy in a BS can terrorize your corp you deserve to get your asses kicked. ---
Christari Zuborov Amarr Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.09.14 07:18:00 - [110] Not defending the OP but I can tell you that 6 months into the game, I think that I had maybe 2 PVP ship encounters. It wasn't until that I moved to 0.0 before I gained combat experience, and knowledge of how the mechanics worked. This is the sole reason why I believe that you should only be allowed be in a noob corp for a certain time period before being forced into a more combat-centric form of game play. You should be forced into this, and then once you understand how it works, should you be allowed a more free-form style of play.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.09.14 07:25:00 - [111] Originally by: Christari Zuborov Not defending the OP but I can tell you that 6 months into the game, I think that I had maybe 2 PVP ship encounters. It wasn't until that I moved to 0.0 before I gained combat experience, and knowledge of how the mechanics worked. This is the sole reason why I believe that you should only be allowed be in a noob corp for a certain time period before being forced into a more combat-centric form of game play. You should be forced into this, and then once you understand how it works, should you be allowed a more free-form style of play. Bullshit. Never been in a player corp in almost 4 years and have several hundred kills. Fit an insured ship for pvp and head out to lowsec or 0.0 and have at it. You will die and you will win. Make some friends or train multiple accounts and you will die less and win moar. Gloat over the wins and learn from the losses. This is how Eve works. Get used to it. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
astowv Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.09.14 07:29:00 - [112] New player experience is too stale to start off with. We come so far in this game that things like learning skills should be maxed out when starting. Making the player able to kickstart the interesting stuff. ---- --- CCP Navigator is watching me. It scares me !
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.09.14 08:07:00 - [113] Originally by: xStormwingx EVE commercial on Adult Swim? Is it uploaded online anywhere? I wanna see! it's up on the eve facebook page. once again don't let your kids watch adult programing and don't let your kids buy adult games.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.09.14 08:10:00 - [114] have every mining ship fit a damp.
Vagenbrae Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.14 11:06:00 - [115] Until they upgrade to that nifty, space-age server I keep hearing about, I would rather the player base remain where it is right now. Lag is bad enough atm.
Lubomir Penev interimo	Posted - 2008.09.14 11:09:00 - [116] Originally by: El Liptonez Kinda sucks. Yeah at 6 months old you could have been on capital kills already, had you gone for a worthy corp. An industrial corp unable to fend off wardecs is not worthy of anything, plenty of indy corp will do just right and will even manage mining ops in wartime. Your corp sucks, quit it and find a decent one. -- I'm done whining about AFs, it looks like they are making them right \o/
Steve Hawkings	Posted - 2008.09.14 11:11:00 - [117] Quote: First - Eve-Online continues to push away new players, i would say 8 to 9 out of 10 players will not renew or go past their trial buddy programs due to harsh and non-new-player friendly environment Eve has become. Stopped reading here, i hate it when arguments are backed up by made up stats. Time is not Money and minerals i mine are free!!
heheheh PedoHamma	Posted - 2008.09.14 11:13:00 - [118] lol its a PVP game !!!
Veldya Caldari Guristari Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2008.09.14 11:13:00 - [119] Eve is like Pokemon. I choose my Dominix!
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2008.09.14 13:27:00 - [120] Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 14/09/2008 13:27:13 1. We have evidence of the contrary of what the OP tells: The everincreasing numbers of players to EVE. CCP confirms the numbers all the time. in addition to having the concurrent player numbers also rising. 2. CCP have hundred times if not more told us that this game aint for all. It is a sandbox game with unconditional PvP. That is the base foundation of this game. And with PvP we means combat as market/industry. PvP = Player versus player! Not just battle! Ofcource it seems to me some people aint satisfied with that and made it an agenda to have it changed. 3. As such the OP is argumenting against the very foundation of this game. OP. This game have been around for more then 5 years and still growing. That means CCP have done lots of right things! Changing the very foundation of this game as you advocate will ruin it. THAT is why I told you to go and burn! Because I wont sit quiet watching someone argumenting for bringing in a NGE to EVE online! Therefore: If you dont like the game as it have been for 5 years: Leave it! NOW! Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL
Urgg Boolean	Posted - 2008.09.14 19:26:00 - [121] Being a relatively new player, here is my take on why the new player experience simple blows: 1) User interface is the worst I have seen anywhere, ever. Buggy, inconsistent object inheritance rules for containers, windows auto-reposition themselves seemly randomly, etc, vomit, etc. Some say "you'll get used to it". But why should anyone have "to get used to" crapolla that is released as fully baked code? In my circle of gamers, we call it "suckage". The star map is most excellent. If the UI, in general, functioned as well designed as the star map, there would be no room for complaint. Players generally do not complain about having to learn a game's UI, simultaneously, the EVE UI is recognized as the garbage it is. 2) The PvP ego has to be ditched, along with derogatory terms like "Carebear". Most inhabitants of planet Earth do not want to compete against other people in what ever recreational time they have. They'd rather "play with" people, than "play against" them. I compete with people in every aspect of my real life: mates, jobs, grades, housing, etc. I, and most gamers in my circle of friends, do not want to compete against people in our recreational time. If the PvPers choose to do that, coolness. But non-PvPers should not automatically be considered lesser beings or wimpy gamers, i.e., Carebears. In my circle of gamers, the real PvPers play Team Fortress II to get their PvP fix, because to compete in EVE takes a year of paid subscription to build skills and a fleet of ship replacements. This bleeds into the concept of EvE being a "niche" game. Guild Wars recently celebrated 6 million subscribers. I don't even know how many WoW or Conan have. So EVE's 250K subs, even if an accurate number, are still seriously wimpy compared to ANY OTHER MMO. Get the ego out: the game will not be ruined by injection of robust PvE content and corresponding PvEers. 3) Eve subscriptions are on the rise?!?! So is the world population. By default, EVE subscriptions will go up naturally. EVE has been around for 5 years?!?! Ultima Online has been around for at least 10 years .... time online alone does not mean the game is increasing in popularity. The new player experience is tantamount to building the subscriber base. I cannot convince my gamer chums to stay in EVE. One of my friends has chosen to stay, but only because I bought him a game time card. Point is, a huge player base pays for huge development. Catering to "niche" players limits development of new content and profits for CCP and their shareholders. Lack of a great new-player experience creates negative synergies that affect all subscribers. 4) Sub-par PvE. PvE comes down to ratz and rocks; it doesn't matter if you run missions, bop about the stars mining, or do exploration, it's still ratz and rocks. You could include trading, too, but new players usually do not have the ISK to buy low/sell high. If you couple the year of PvE grinding to get anywhere close to survival in low sec space, the new player is confronted with rampant PvE boredom, and months/years of paid subscription for the promise of joining a Corp once 10 million SP are acquired. In short, there is very little motivation for a new player to stay and pay. What is good about EVE that attracts interest from new players: 1) skills based game mechanics, rather than level based. The skills system is cool, although very time consuming. But, you set a skill timer, and go out and play the game. Coolness! 2) The crafting system is very well thought out. The really cool thing is how the bigger, badder objects need huge amounts of wimpy rocks along with higher grade minerals. This creates jobs for noobs. Very cool concept.
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.09.14 19:37:00 - [122] Edited by: Tippia on 14/09/2008 19:40:37 Originally by: Urgg Boolean 2) The PvP ego has to be ditched, along with derogatory terms like "Carebear". Most inhabitants of planet Earth do not want to compete against other people in what ever recreational time they have. They'd rather "play with" people, than "play against" them. Then guess what: this game isn't for them! And it's ok if the game is not for them — they have plenty of other games to choose from that cater to their interests. You cannot play ≡v≡ wihout competing with other players, and that's what makes it attractive to its niche market. It's what keeps that niche around. Change ≡v≡ into something else, and it will just be a run-of-the-mill game that will live in the shadow of, and be threatened by, every other MMO out there — old and new. If you don't want to compete — and it's ok if you don't — then you need to face the fact that you won't get what you're looking for here, any more than you won't get your FPS craving satisfied in Civ or your epic storytelling needs filled by CS:S. Quote: 4) Sub-par PvE. PvE comes down to ratz and rocks; it doesn't matter if you run missions, bop about the stars mining, or do exploration, it's still ratz and rocks. You could include trading, too, but new players usually do not have the ISK to buy low/sell high. The problem is that only one of those — missions — is PvE: mining and trading are entirely PvP affairs (and this, btw, is why missions are so often whined about: they stick out like a sore thumb in the middle of a full-PvP game).
Sean Sniper	Posted - 2008.09.15 13:18:00 - [123] Originally by: CCP RyanD We're not desperate but we are working hard to get new players. The TV advertisements are a test of a strategy to try and reach people that we think would like EVE but who aren't MMO players and are unlikely to see our advertising elsewhere. We think there are a lot of those kinds of people and we're going to be working really hard to find them and raise their awareness of EVE - that's a pretty short but accurate summary of our marketing program. I agree with you that the experience as a new player in EVE has a lot of room for improvement. We're making slow but steady progress in making that experience better, but we have to be very careful that while we try to improve it we don't accidentally break something else that really matters for our committed players. EVE exists in a delicate equilibrium that needs to balance the needs of new players to have some space to learn the game and learn about the way people play the game, and the needs of committed players who want to pursue their "sandbox" objectives. Those needs come into conflict when the "sandbox" play reduces the quality of the experience for new players. There is no silver bullet to resolve this conflict. Incremental, careful change is the only safe path forward. RyanD the fact that's you're doing commercials is great, and I've noticed a lot more internet ads as well, but the commercials I saw(the one that was on Sci-Fi channel some months back) didn't really engage me. If I didn't know what EVE was already, that commercial would not have piqued my interest to find out. Eve's strongest selling feature(besides the actual gameplay) is the backstory. Get some serious voiceover guys/girls on it, get a script, and make a small short film-type commercial. Get me(the potential player POV) hooked on what happens, and could happen, in the EVE universe. Take it from a working actor in hollywood: if you do that, your sub numbers will rise.
Mankirks Wife	Posted - 2008.09.15 13:54:00 - [124] Originally by: Urgg Boolean Being a relatively new player, here is my take on why the new player experience simple blows: 1) User interface is the worst I have seen anywhere, ever. I'll give you this one. I might even go bump my whine topic from yesterday in a show of support. Quote: 2) The PvP ego has to be ditched, along with derogatory terms like "Carebear". Most inhabitants of planet Earth do not want to compete against other people in what ever recreational time they have. They'd rather "play with" people, than "play against" them. Eve didn't grow from almost nothing to being the 2nd (or 3rd, depending on whose numbers you trust more) biggest western subscription-based MMO on the market by emulating WoW. What you have to understand is that even though cutthroat competition in virtually everything (except mission running, which is why it's the Debate of the Month right now) is the core of Eve, cooperation is even more important. The big alliances that are the true powerbrokers of Eve are just that - huge alliances of thousands of players. Eve is not carebear land, despite what some people may think. It is challenging. It is largely unscripted. If you screw up you can lose your shirt. These things make Eve Eve and are what makes it successful - In case you missed the clue from every major MMO launch of the last few years, if people want WoW they'll play WoW. Quote: 3) Eve subscriptions are on the rise?!?! So is the world population. By default, EVE subscriptions will go up naturally. Eve subs have been growing much faster than the rate of global population growth. This is just silly. Quote: 4) Sub-par PvE. I'll give you this too, but PvE is actually getting a lot better - it's been a main focus for quite some time now. Also you need to realize that playing the market is about the most hardcore pvp in Eve - many of us have epic whinemails to prove it :P. You know.. there was another space-based MMO that thought the way you do. So they redesigned their game from top to bottom in hopes of making it, for lack of a better term, more mainstream friendly. I think we all know how that turned out. Just because something is niche and outside the mainstream does not make it a failure. If that were true, we would all listen to Britney Spears, play WoW, have 2.5 kids and a dog, and work mindless office jobs, none of which apply to me, or a large portion of the rest of the population, and I suspect the majority of the people here. ---
Anahid Brutus TunkbwahCorp GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.09.21 16:13:00 - [125] i agree, especially on the point of bully corps

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