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Mordekai Bloodwake
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.09.08 13:42:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Mordekai Bloodwake on 08/09/2008 13:47:30
Last night my kids run and tell me they saw the game i play on a TV commercial, Well the TV Commercial was in fact Eve-Online the problem is that the commercial was on the cartoon network!
Ok so here's my problem;
First - Eve-Online continues to push away new players, i would say 8 to 9 out of 10 players will not renew or go past their trial buddy programs due to harsh and non-new-player friendly environment Eve has become.
Second - Most new players (and im talking about the masses from other MMO's) DO NOT find it fun when killed without a chance to defend them selves. (this is a major issue that plagues new players).
Third - Bully corps, There are corps that specifically target smaller and new corps with the sole purpose of increasing their kill ratio, meaning a group of players from X MMO come to Eve, then form their own personal corp to have fun then get war dec'd by a much more seasoned corp and ****d time and time again before even allowing the new player corp to get a chance to learn the game mechanics of Eve or to even begin to have fun. (yes there are players that like to keep to their own corp and being part of an alliance is not something they want to participate in).
I have invited so many friends from other MMO's i play in the past few years playing Eve and many that have tried only a few have stuck with the game due to the 3 main issues above.
CCP if you plan to increase the player base (which business suggest you do in order to increase profit) please know you need to be more new player friendly, treating new players as canon fodder for older players that can afford ship losses or simply want to increase their kill ratio is not fun nor will it attract a larger player base, instead Eve will continue to be niche with a very limited number of player subscriptions and although most of the PvP gank shuttle popping fanbuis enjoy it, it will mean less money for Eve to continue expanding.
I would also say trying to attract kids that watch the cartoon network into Eve-Online will only add more to the new player death toll.
Just my .0001 ISK.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.09.08 13:53:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake
First - Eve-Online continues to push away new players, i would say 8 to 9 out of 10 players will not renew or go past their trial buddy programs due to harsh and non-new-player friendly environment Eve has become.
Working as intended.
Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake
Second - Most new players (and im talking about the masses from other MMO's) DO NOT find it fun when killed without a chance to defend them selves. (this is a major issue that plagues new players).
Working as intended.
Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake
Third - Bully corps, There are corps that specifically target smaller and new corps with the sole purpose of increasing their kill ratio, meaning a group of players from X MMO come to Eve, then form their own personal corp to have fun then get war dec'd by a much more seasoned corp and ****d time and time again before even allowing the new player corp to get a chance to learn the game mechanics of Eve or to even begin to have fun. (yes there are players that like to keep to their own corp and being part of an alliance is not something they want to participate in).
They have stated they are going to rework wardecs.
Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake
I have invited so many friends from other MMO's i play in the past few years playing Eve and many that have tried only a few have stuck with the game due to the 3 main issues above.
What does the phrase 'niche game' mean to you exactly?
Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake
I would also say trying to attract kids that watch the cartoon network into Eve-Online will only add more to the new player death toll.
More lulz for us.
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DesuSigs |
Sarin Adler
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.09.08 13:59:00 -
[3]
It's fine as it is, I find all these thingies to act as filters and it's fine. heck it probably was much harder in the apst. Also I don't think is so hard to start as a new player, hi-sec is very safe indeed, and the learning curve is ok.
Filters are good. Advertising in CN is a bit weird have to agree with that one.
A game with a playerbase of 260k subscribers, and probably 3< million players on 5 years is not that much niche. Indeed EVE is very popular comapred to 99% of MMOG (WoW being that 1%).
EVE is rpetty unqie and we want to keep it as it is, we don't need an other wow clone with the same stupid audience. There are allready topo much useless guys in EVE, don't need more.
If you can't learn go to other game, is fine for me.
---
Alts, the root of all evil. |
Somealt Ofmine
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Posted - 2008.09.08 14:13:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Sarin Adler
Filters are good. Advertising in CN is a bit weird have to agree with that one.
Cartoon network's demographics might suprise you. They have a lot more viewers in their 20s than you might imagine. The other thing to consider is that cable advertising is often bought in packages that include a little of this and a little of that. You get a better rate if you buy the package instead of picking and choosing which networks to air your spot on.
To the OP:
Eve is a ganker's game. It's mechanics set up for it (gates you can camp, choke points, war-decs, etc.), and it has attracted a large and loyal following of those who like to gank (kill others when they don't have much of a chance).
CCP has to walk a tightrope of keeping the gankers happy while providing enough mechanics that lets the gankee figure out how to avoid it before they give up and quit. As you have seen in these forums, anything that deters ganking will result in a shit-storm of protest from the player base, so they have to tread lightly with this.
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5pinDizzy
Amarr
Umpteenth Podding
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Posted - 2008.09.08 14:23:00 -
[5]
lol advetising on cartoon network? I wouldn't have been remotely interested in Eve or probably even know what to do with it until I was around 14.
First - Everyone I know didn't go past eve trial not because it's harsh but because it's boring. Here's the real complaints I've heard from every trial member friend who's quit.
- Time sinking game mechanics, e.g By the time you've decided you want to pvp, and have spent hours flying around 30 jumps to every different place, collecting all your bits to put your ideal ship together, then jumped into your jump clone and done your insurance, right you need to go to that lowsec region 10 jumps away, oh died straight away, right then, put another shi... actually screw that, it took 2 hours to set the first one up. I've literally had 2 hours to spare with friends before to go out pvping and by the time we were all ready it was too late and had to go to bed anyway.
-How they find they go out to fight in their tech 1 ship in the first week expecting they can do something good only to come across endless roaming gangs of multimillion tech 2 ships everywhere they go.
-Tedious stargate travelling wears them down spending 85% of their time jumping through these hoops endlessly.
No known fix on the drawing board by CCP.
-How every systems looks and acts exactly the same as the next and on the surface there's absolutely no substance to any of them.
Various world enriching features on the drawing board, but are a long way off.
-Missions - Paying for a multiplayer game to spend hours on singleplayer missions earning peanuts unless someone whispers something in their ear about salvaging.
May see some enhancements in this area within the next 6 months or so.
-Mining - Possibly the dullest joke of an activity ever contrived by a game developer in the history of mankind.
May see some enhancements in this area within the next 6 months or so.
Anything else PVE wise is very skill intensive.
-Joining a corp.
Nearly all the corps you join as a new player are rubbish, you go from crappy corp with noone ever online to other crappy corp with noone ever online. Where all the actual decent corps have a minimum skillpoint level requirement of about 1 or 2 years worth of skillpoints.
Suggested fix which would work very well was suggested in another thread some time ago, 100 million isk to start a corp, this ensures only the committed players start one instead of all the deadweight corps that are floating around.
Second - PvP is a choice, if you stay in empire in an npc and keep to yourself, 99.9 percent of the time noone else with bother with you.
You do however have a point if you are wishing to highlight the gaping skill gap between new and integrated players that cannot be closed upon without spending around a year learning skills. As much as people say you can solo pvp in a tech 1 ship, you can't really, unless you find another noob wondering around. Which only leaves PVE for the first 12 months or so, and the pve in this game is as dull as dishwater.
Third - I refer you to the first part of my second, npc corp and highsec space, joining a player made corp is a choice. However, CCP happens to agree with you and this is being looked at. Seeing as the you can only really have any real fun by being in a player made corp with friends.
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Yurname Here
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Posted - 2008.09.08 14:27:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Somealt Ofmine
CCP has to walk a tightrope of keeping the gankers happy while providing enough mechanics that lets the gankee figure out how to avoid it before they give up and quit. As you have seen in these forums, anything that deters ganking will result in a shit-storm of protest from the player base, so they have to tread lightly with this.
LMFAO. Considering this forum is DOMINATED by gankers of course they'll cry a frickin river of tears. I've never seen a forum of louder whiners in my life and it's all the gankers. Get me a boat, I'm drowning in gank tears.
The OP is correct but it will never matter. Nuff said. |
Tippia
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.09.08 14:31:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Yurname Here
Considering this forum is DOMINATED by gankers
Considering this game is a PvP game, it would be pretty wierd if its forums weren't dominated by gankers…
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Miyamoto Uroki
Caldari
KuhSchubsKlan
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Posted - 2008.09.08 14:44:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Miyamoto Uroki on 08/09/2008 14:44:15
I 100% agree with SpinDizzy. What would also finally solve most of the problem that is time consuming fitting your ship and travelling around (as for traders) is the final introduction of Interbus. Something ccp is been talking about since the beginning of Eve.
Make Interbus deliver your goods within the constellation for a small fee, also increase the extra cost when putting up contracts (or maybe even market orders). The current extra fine needed seems not to work.
And ofc change the high agent distribution system to a dynamic one. That would imho effectively remove all major trade hubs from the game. Maybe a bit of system links have to be reworked too, so that Jita isn't centre of lower caldari space anymore.
So the benefits would be:
- far far less time consuming when youre shopping, instead using that time for action.
- with time removal of all major trade hubs
- more localization, which would also mean less need to travel and thereby wasting your time
I would be really interested in Dr. Ejyo (dunno how he's spelt,sry) opinion on such deep, world shaping changes.
*some random dev plz poke him to get onto the forums* ^^
Originally by: Puupuu
dude... your face
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Yurname Here
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Posted - 2008.09.08 15:00:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Yurname Here
Considering this forum is DOMINATED by gankers
Considering this game is a PvP game, it would be pretty wierd if its forums weren't dominated by gankersą
LMAO. Gankers do not = pvp. Gankers = well, ganking unarmed or noobish ships unable to defend themselves. PVP = people engaging well equiped ships able to fight back. Thought most people in MMOs knew the difference.
In any event, ganking noobs is never a good thing if trying to expand a player base. But I can't say that is what CCP wants to do. And as previous posters said, maybe they want only certain people who can play through the weak who prey on the defenseless. |
Tippia
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.09.08 15:05:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Yurname Here
LMAO. Gankers do not = pvp. Gankers = well, ganking unarmed or noobish ships unable to defend themselves. PVP = people engaging well equiped ships able to fight back. Thought most people in MMOs knew the difference.
PvP = Player vs. Player. Ganking is one of the many types of PvP you'll see in ≡v≡, and seing as how numbers count for a lot when it comes to winning, it should comes as no surprise that it is gangs doing the killing.
Rule #1 of ≡v≡: if you're in a fair fight, you're doing it wrong.
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5pinDizzy
Amarr
Umpteenth Podding
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Posted - 2008.09.08 15:08:00 -
[11]
Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 08/09/2008 15:13:29
Originally by: Miyamoto Uroki
Edited by: Miyamoto Uroki on 08/09/2008 14:44:15
I 100% agree with SpinDizzy. What would also finally solve most of the problem that is time consuming fitting your ship and travelling around (as for traders) is the final introduction of Interbus. Something ccp is been talking about since the beginning of Eve.
Make Interbus deliver your goods within the constellation for a small fee, also increase the extra cost when putting up contracts (or maybe even market orders). The current extra fine needed seems not to work.
And ofc change the high agent distribution system to a dynamic one. That would imho effectively remove all major trade hubs from the game. Maybe a bit of system links have to be reworked too, so that Jita isn't centre of lower caldari space anymore.
So the benefits would be:
- far far less time consuming when youre shopping, instead using that time for action.
- with time removal of all major trade hubs
- more localization, which would also mean less need to travel and thereby wasting your time
I would be really interested in Dr. Ejyo (dunno how he's spelt,sry) opinion on such deep, world shaping changes.
*some random dev plz poke him to get onto the forums* ^^
Omg that sounds so awesome, do want! 
Restricted per constellation though?,
I see the need to limit the range so marjin traders and haulers aren't phased out of the market system, but can we go for an entire region? Maybe with a certain level 5 skill?
With a delivery cost multiplier the further away the amount of jumps the item is as a bit of balance so that you might still buy something more expensive cause it's nearer rather then snapping up the cheapest goods all over the entire region all the time and putting the profit margin of industrialists on a knife edge.
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CCP RyanD
Caldari
C C P
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Posted - 2008.09.08 15:13:00 -
[12]
The ad you saw was running on Adult Swim, which has a great demographic for EVE: 20-30 year olds, not many kids.
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Lothros Andastar
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.09.08 15:23:00 -
[13]
Originally by: CCP RyanD
The ad you saw was running on Adult Swim, which has a great demographic for EVE: 20-30 year olds, not many kids.
Dev troll FTW!
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Malcanis
RuffRyders
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.09.08 15:32:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Yurname Here
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Yurname Here
Considering this forum is DOMINATED by gankers
Considering this game is a PvP game, it would be pretty wierd if its forums weren't dominated by gankersą
LMAO. Gankers do not = pvp. Gankers = well, ganking unarmed or noobish ships unable to defend themselves. PVP = people engaging well equiped ships able to fight back. Thought most people in MMOs knew the difference.
Please point to your shining "real" PvP acheivements.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Kyle Klanen
|
Posted - 2008.09.08 15:35:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake
Edited by: Mordekai Bloodwake on 08/09/2008 13:47:30
Last night my kids run and tell me they saw the game i play on a TV commercial, Well the TV Commercial was in fact Eve-Online the problem is that the commercial was on the cartoon network!
Ok so here's my problem;
First - Eve-Online continues to push away new players, i would say 8 to 9 out of 10 players will not renew or go past their trial buddy programs due to harsh and non-new-player friendly environment Eve has become.
Second - Most new players (and im talking about the masses from other MMO's) DO NOT find it fun when killed without a chance to defend them selves. (this is a major issue that plagues new players).
Third - Bully corps, There are corps that specifically target smaller and new corps with the sole purpose of increasing their kill ratio, meaning a group of players from X MMO come to Eve, then form their own personal corp to have fun then get war dec'd by a much more seasoned corp and ****d time and time again before even allowing the new player corp to get a chance to learn the game mechanics of Eve or to even begin to have fun. (yes there are players that like to keep to their own corp and being part of an alliance is not something they want to participate in).
I have invited so many friends from other MMO's i play in the past few years playing Eve and many that have tried only a few have stuck with the game due to the 3 main issues above.
CCP if you plan to increase the player base (which business suggest you do in order to increase profit) please know you need to be more new player friendly, treating new players as canon fodder for older players that can afford ship losses or simply want to increase their kill ratio is not fun nor will it attract a larger player base, instead Eve will continue to be niche with a very limited number of player subscriptions and although most of the PvP gank shuttle popping fanbuis enjoy it, it will mean less money for Eve to continue expanding.
I would also say trying to attract kids that watch the cartoon network into Eve-Online will only add more to the new player death toll.
Just my .0001 ISK.
CCP Greyscale alt detected. |
Hungo
Minmatar
Research And Tactics
Zeta Tau Epsilon
|
Posted - 2008.09.08 15:38:00 -
[16]
CCP wanst to rival WOW and they think by atrarcting kids that will work, only problemn here is rather obviosu and its very disturbing they dont see it
EVE is very compicated to anyoen under 14 - thats why its a bunch of single pathetic, depsrate nerds who play
wow - very simple, gpo here, get this gear, level quickly
Aslong as this 8real time training* B U L L S H I T exists, eve will stay at 40k ish subs n not grow + lag - unable to even get one patch up without problems
keep dreaming ccop
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Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2008.09.08 15:38:00 -
[17]
Originally by: CCP RyanD
The ad you saw was running on Adult Swim, which has a great demographic for EVE: 20-30 year olds, not many kids.
OP, WTH were you doing letting your kids watch Adult Swim??
  
Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Tippia
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.09.08 15:42:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Tippia on 08/09/2008 15:44:21
Originally by: Hungo
Aslong as this *real time training* B U L L S H I T exists, eve will stay at 40k ish subs n not grow + lag - unable to even get one patch up without problems
It already has 250k-ish subs, you know, so you're proven wrong right from the start…
…that said, if what you say is true, I'd actually prefer it if ≡v≡ wouldn't grow any larger. The real-time training is one of the defining features that makes it much more pleasing to me than any other MMO out there — if they had to sacrifice that to increase their sub numbers, then they'd lose my sub in the process.
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Malcanis
RuffRyders
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.09.08 15:42:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Hungo
CCP wanst to rival WOW and they think by atrarcting kids that will work, only problemn here is rather obviosu and its very disturbing they dont see it
EVE is very compicated to anyoen under 14 - thats why its a bunch of single pathetic, depsrate nerds who play
wow - very simple, gpo here, get this gear, level quickly
Aslong as this 8real time training* B U L L S H I T exists, eve will stay at 40k ish subs n not grow + lag - unable to even get one patch up without problems
keep dreaming ccop
Just one problem: EvE has almost 300,000 subs and has grown every quarter for the last 4 years.
Oh, sorry, am I griefing you with "facts"? Allow me to apologise and send you rainbow kisses and fairy hugs.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Zaknussem
Caldari
The Ironbreakers
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Posted - 2008.09.08 15:44:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Sarin Adler
EVE is rpetty unqie and we want to keep it as it is, we don't need an other wow clone with the same stupid audience. There are allready topo much useless guys in EVE, don't need more.
If you can't learn go to other game, is fine for me.
(Leaving the above spelling errors in on purpose.)
Unless you work at CCP, how you want "to keep it as it is" means nothing in the end. If they want to change EvE and make it into WoW In Space, nothing you can say or do is going to change that.
One can argue that the same things that make EvE unique are also the same things that stunt EvE's growth. Eventually the "uniqueness" will result in a negative growth. What happens then?
EvE may be "fine as it is" right now, but don't be surprised if that changes... |
Reven Cordelle
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.09.08 15:45:00 -
[21]
1.Bored
2.Bored
3.Bored
4.Eyestrain
But fo' serious, its probably true. I don't think CCP know what their key demographic is...
Cept maybe "geeks who like space"...
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Malcanis
RuffRyders
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.09.08 15:45:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Zaknussem. Eventually the "uniqueness" will result in a negative growth...[/quote
You state that as a fact when it's actually an unsupported assumption.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Malcanis
RuffRyders
Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2008.09.08 15:50:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Malcanis on 08/09/2008 15:50:08
EDT: duplicate.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
|
Posted - 2008.09.08 15:54:00 -
[24]
Quote:
CCP wanst to rival WOW and they think by atrarcting kids that will work,
ads on adult swim
Quote:
EVE is very compicated to anyoen under 14 - thats why its a bunch of single pathetic, depsrate nerds who play
such as yourself, not like those smart young hip non-nerdy wow players...
Quote:
wow - very simple, gpo here, get this gear, level quickly
and what makes you think eve wants this?
Quote:
Aslong as this 8real time training* B U L L S H I T exists, eve will stay at 40k ish subs n not grow + lag - unable to even get one patch up without problems
eve is the 3rd largest western mmorpg on the market subs wise at about 300,000 players. It is the only mmorpg other than wow that has only shown growth over the past 4 years. They don't need 10 million subs they already outnumber the subs Everquest ever had.
Quote:
keep dreaming ccop
to quote a dev
"we must be doing something right"
also I'll send you rainbow hugs too if facts are too much for you :)
rainbow gank
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
|
Posted - 2008.09.08 15:55:00 -
[25]
wait a moment BACK UP BACK THE HELL UP!!!
Quote:
Last night my kids run and tell me they saw the game i play on a TV commercial, Well the TV Commercial was in fact Eve-Online the problem is that the commercial was on the cartoon network!
your kids are watching adult programing?
your a bad parent.
this thread is on the same level of "my son bought GTA3 and I can't believe the stuff they put in games for kids these days"
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Cael Deboisbleu
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Posted - 2008.09.08 16:08:00 -
[26]
Quote:
Well the TV Commercial was in fact Eve-Online the problem is that the commercial was on the cartoon network!
Look like CPP is looking for more Pirates!
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Dr Axler
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.09.08 16:11:00 -
[27]
eve has tv ads? damn, guess you don`t get to see any if you live in Slovenia :)
_________________________________________________
"nerf rock, paper is working as intended."
- Scissors |
Sarin Adler
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.09.08 16:15:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Zaknussem
Originally by: Sarin Adler
EVE is rpetty unqie and we want to keep it as it is, we don't need an other wow clone with the same stupid audience. There are allready topo much useless guys in EVE, don't need more.
If you can't learn go to other game, is fine for me.
(Leaving the above spelling errors in on purpose.)
Unless you work at CCP, how you want "to keep it as it is" means nothing in the end. If they want to change EvE and make it into WoW In Space, nothing you can say or do is going to change that.
One can argue that the same things that make EvE unique are also the same things that stunt EvE's growth. Eventually the "uniqueness" will result in a negative growth. What happens then?
EvE may be "fine as it is" right now, but don't be surprised if that changes...
Sorry for the typos, was writing fast.
"Eventually the "uniqueness" will result in a negative growth." You've yet to demonstrate this with empirical data. EVE has been growing for years and the trend is not changing. Indeed I don't know if the hardware that there is right now could hole more thank 50k online players at once without blatant lag everywhere in the universe.
So... WoW in space is not happening, at least not yet.
---
Alts, the root of all evil. |
s33ker
Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2008.09.08 16:37:00 -
[29]
There is always a way to defend yourself. I've never felt defenseless in the game, not even when I was noob. Scout ahead, don't have an alt yet? Get a friend to scout... just want to stick to yourself and play alone? Go play super mario twins, eve is a multiplayer game. Back in the day I tried to pick on small corps with some friends and they got other corps in the game to pick on us. I don't buy into what the OP is saying. Some people simply will not like this game and THAT IS OKAY. 
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Amy Wang
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Posted - 2008.09.08 16:44:00 -
[30]
I think a lot of the long time subscribers including me fear that Eve will be evolving from a "harsh" niche-game to CCP's cash cow to finance the development of their new favourite child world of darkness and will become much less "harsh" and "nichey" for that.
Imho there is nothing wrong with ganking, scamming, suiciding (relatively) new players, on the contrary, they either learn from the experience or realize the game is not for them.
But in my experience most newish people, corps or alliances dont quit but adapt and become better, in fact being picked on was doing them a favour in the end, they became better players because of it (yes, I'm serious).
Take the recent suicide ganking nerf for example: I used to afk haul expensive modules (worth a couple 100m) in frigs, got suicided a few times back in the days. Nowadays I use well fitted t2 transports for this kind of cargo, before the suicide ganking nerf I got shot at in those ships a lot still, but the attacker was never successful - because I put the effort in to train for the correct ships and put some thought into equipping it.
Why should a new player now with the nerf have the same security for much smaller effort hauling in a frig or t1 hauler? Doesnt seem fair really - I say bring back the old concord and let suicide gankers punish the dumb and lazy again!
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