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Felicity Waring
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Posted - 2008.09.08 16:04:00 -
[1]
Now before all you carebear twerps start emoraging lets clear up a few things, first this is NOT a post trying to force people out of hi-sec, this is NOT a post about getting more soft squishy targets to pew pew. You want to hide away in hi-sec for your entire EVE life and miss out on arguably the biggest part of the game be my quest.
What this post IS about is probably the biggest imbalance I have experienced in any MMO I have ever played!
Lets say you live in null-sec, you are far from Empire with no one to protect you but your Corp and/or your Alliance. Ships are hard to come by, modules the same and when you do find them they cost way more than Empire. Constant threat of attack, the possibility of being evicted forcefully from your space. Not to mention the need for huge supply chains and logistics to be able to get anything done. Billions upon billions of isk put out for POS, Dreads, Moms, Carriers, and Titans to defend your space. Don't get me wrong, does 0.0 have it's advantages? Hell yes it does but for anyone to effectively survive out there they all need to be working together and be at the top of their game to maintain it.
Now lets say you live in low-sec, not as far from Empire but if you ever plan on un-docking you might as well be as far away as null. Why you ask? Well security rating of course. It's pretty easy to get to -5 in one week of living out in low-sec and as we know you can wave bye-bye to Empire after that. Some of the same constraints as null, ships and modules hard to come by and much more costly than Empire, no one to protect you but your Corp and/or Alliance. Not to mention dodging FW blobs.
And then there is Empire... don't get me wrong, I am all for having a safe place for new players to grow and learn the game, I'm all for having a place where you don't have to be under constant fear of attack. But this has gone to far and as far as I'm concerned most of what is going on in Empire should be deemed an exploit!
Years old players hiding in NPC corps with NO taxes and no chance of ever being war-decced. Players hopping into NPC or alt corps the SECOND a war-dec comes to avoid fighting, even though doing the opposite (joining a Corp to insta-gank someone) was just deemed an exploit. 100m isk Hulks strip mining entire systems with no fear of even NPC attacks. Steady and good income from mission running, not to mention access to ALL the minerals in the game through refining of loot drops. Trade hubs in all four factions space with the cheapest ships and modules around. And all this and many other things all while under the protection of CONCORD...
These things are exploits, how can they not be? Yes there are advantages and disadvantages to all three areas but anyone can clearly see that the advantages of Empire living are being exploited. If not then explain to me how is it that there are years old players that have NEVER been involved in any type of pew pew in what is touted as the '#1 PVP MMO'
What I wish could be implemented:
 NPC corp tax: If after 3 months you are still in an NPC corp you are taxed %50 of whatever you make.
Jumping corp to avoid war-decs should be deemed an exploit and bannable.
CONCORD tax: If you want protection from CONCORD your Corp/Alliance should have to pay a hefty fee for it. Why not? Everywhere else you pay for the protection given you by time and isk invested defending your space.
No low-sec / null-sec minerals refined from Empire drops. I don't care if the ship prices triple I'd rather that than some exploiting carebear making isk for no risk while some other guy is hanging it on the line actually mining the stuff in hostile territory.
Reduction of mission rewards or flat out removal of level 3 and 4's in Empire. I'm sorry but in EVERY other MMO once you hit a certain point you move on, you can't continue to profit from PVE'ing in the starter area and that is what Empire is. I mission in low-sec all the time, use your brain because I haven't lost a ship yet.
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Felicity Waring
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Posted - 2008.09.08 16:05:00 -
[2]
Removal of Exhumers and Mining barges from 1.0 and 0.9 space, why are they there? They are exploiting the fact that there are no rats, they are exploiting the fact that they are virtually untouchable, and if you really think about it they are griefing new players who have to venture out into the world of can-flippers that much sooner because every rock in their starter system was sucked up by some afk miner in his Hulk.
These are the things I'd like to see changed CCP, if anyone has read the many other threads on this topic then they'd know there are a lot of ideas on changes to be made. As it is right now Empire is an exploit plain and simple and maybe everyone should start reporting this stuff as such. Would you listen then? People whine and people cry and from what I've seen lately you cave into them, hoping to increase your player base. Just don't okay, this is EVE! The #1 non consensual PVP MMO on the market, the cold harsh universe that has made headlines, the game that I love (yes love :P) and all these changes and the largely ignored complaints of people who don't hide in the Empire exploit leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Cater to a new player base, make it attractive and enjoyable for new players to get into and learn the game but for god sakes stop letting years old players exploit that same advantage like is going on now. Anyway thats my piece, do with it what you will.
Flame on! 
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Arctur Ceti
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Posted - 2008.09.08 16:11:00 -
[3]
OR you can ignore them and go on with your EVE life.
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SoftRevolution
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Posted - 2008.09.08 16:16:00 -
[4]
 Quote:
Now before all you carebear twerps start emoraging lets clear up a few things, first this is NOT a post trying to force people out of hi-sec, this is NOT a post about getting more soft squishy targets to pew pew. You want to hide away in hi-sec for your entire EVE life and miss out on arguably the biggest part of the game be my quest.
Oh yes?
Quote:
But this has gone to far and as far as I'm concerned most of what is going on in Empire should be deemed an exploit!
Hmmm.
EVE RELATED CONTENT |
Felicity Waring
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Posted - 2008.09.08 16:21:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Arctur Ceti
OR you can ignore them and go on with your EVE life.
Why should I? Carebears have proven quite effectively and even openly brag about it on these forums that whining will get them what they want. Well I want this imbalance fixed. Why should John Doe empire hugger #1276746323 have all these advantages over everyone else without having to pay any extra for it? Without any added risk for it? It's an exploit and it's unfair to the rest of the player base. |
Felicity Waring
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Posted - 2008.09.08 16:26:00 -
[6]
Originally by: SoftRevolution
Quote:
Now before all you carebear twerps start emoraging lets clear up a few things, first this is NOT a post trying to force people out of hi-sec, this is NOT a post about getting more soft squishy targets to pew pew. You want to hide away in hi-sec for your entire EVE life and miss out on arguably the biggest part of the game be my quest.
Oh yes?
Quote:
But this has gone to far and as far as I'm concerned most of what is going on in Empire should be deemed an exploit!
Hmmm.
Where do I say to force people out? Stay there for all I care but you should have to pay for that added luxury, that added safety. It is an exploit, name any other PVP MMO where you can profit in the millions and billions without ever exposing yourself to any form of risk, without paying through the nose for it.
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Hungo
Minmatar
Research And Tactics
Zeta Tau Epsilon
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Posted - 2008.09.08 16:27:00 -
[7]
lol ur a fool
THIS IS NOT A PVP CENTERED GAME, IT IS NOT DEEMED TO REVOLVE AROUND PVP
You CANNOT force others to live as you do, it is beyond selfish, the sheer arragonce of what you are suggesting and arguing is beyond even common courtesy limits
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Maximillian Bayonette
White Lion Manufacture and Salvage
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Posted - 2008.09.08 16:28:00 -
[8]
Agree with you OP, but don't expect a discussion on the issues. It's good that you do your part and bring more light to this issue. Discussion with people like those you want to nerf is futile.
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Maximillian Bayonette
White Lion Manufacture and Salvage
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Posted - 2008.09.08 16:29:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Hungo
THIS IS NOT A PVP CENTERED GAME, IT IS NOT DEEMED TO REVOLVE AROUND PVP
Yes it is, as per CCP's own Oveur.
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Felicity Waring
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Posted - 2008.09.08 16:32:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Hungo
lol ur a fool
THIS IS NOT A PVP CENTERED GAME, IT IS NOT DEEMED TO REVOLVE AROUND PVP
You CANNOT force others to live as you do, it is beyond selfish, the sheer arragonce of what you are suggesting and arguing is beyond even common courtesy limits
Umm they advertise it as the #1 PVP MMO out there so who's the fool?
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Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.09.08 16:34:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Hungo
lol ur a fool
THIS IS NOT A PVP CENTERED GAME, IT IS NOT DEEMED TO REVOLVE AROUND PVP
You CANNOT force others to live as you do, it is beyond selfish, the sheer arragonce of what you are suggesting and arguing is beyond even common courtesy limits
PvP can happen anywhere, at any time, to anybody. Combat PvP can happen to you anytime you undock, and social PvP can happen even while docked. Resource PvP happens whenever you use, rent, mine or produce anything.
EvE is PvP conflict centric.
PvE can happen anywhere, at anytime, to anybody. Combat PvE can happen to you anytime you undock, and social PvE happens when you talk with agents. Resource PvE happens when you use, rent, mine or produce anything.
EvE is PvE conflict centric.
You CHOOSE not to protect yourself, not to prepare yourself, for the possibility of PvP combat. But assuming that it cannot happen is folly.
Choosing to ignore PvP is choosing to always be the victim in every PvP situation.
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
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Troezar
Personal Vendetta
Vendetta Alliance.
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Posted - 2008.09.08 16:36:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Hungo
lol ur a fool
THIS IS NOT A PVP CENTERED GAME, IT IS NOT DEEMED TO REVOLVE AROUND PVP
You CANNOT force others to live as you do, it is beyond selfish, the sheer arragonce of what you are suggesting and arguing is beyond even common courtesy limits
Funny thing back in '03 I'm sure I remember the Icelandic CCP being all for EVE being a pvp game. These days there seems to be a lot of US influence in the staff and the playerbase and much more pve emphasis. Any connection or pure coincidence?
The other conclusion is of course that carebears are more profitable...
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Somealt Ofmine
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Posted - 2008.09.08 16:47:00 -
[13]
An exploit is taking advantage of a bug or deficiency in the game mechanics instead of reporting it. None of what you listed is an exploit, because it's working as intended.
You war-dec corporations, not individuals, in Eve. Disbanding the corp or leaving it is a perfectly legitimate and logical response to a war-dec. It is, in effect, surrendering. If you are looking for fights, and don't want your war targets to surrender without firing a shot, try deccing a corp that's bigger and stronger than yours. They probably won't disband, and you'll get all the PvP you want. Maybe even more than you want. War decs are not your free ticket to easy ganks.
Tip: You can live in low-sec for a long time and never go sec negative. Just don't shoot at folks who aren't flashy red. 
If you think all the advantages are in Empire, there's an easy and logical response. Move there, and reap all of these advantages that you keep blowing about. If you don't want to, why not? If it has all the advantages, and no drawbacks, shouldn't Empire be crowded to the brim, and 0.0 be empty?
Try making some sense. It's fun.
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SoftRevolution
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Posted - 2008.09.08 16:48:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Troezar
Originally by: Hungo
lol ur a fool
THIS IS NOT A PVP CENTERED GAME, IT IS NOT DEEMED TO REVOLVE AROUND PVP
You CANNOT force others to live as you do, it is beyond selfish, the sheer arragonce of what you are suggesting and arguing is beyond even common courtesy limits
Funny thing back in '03 I'm sure I remember the Icelandic CCP being all for EVE being a pvp game. These days there seems to be a lot of US influence in the staff and the playerbase and much more pve emphasis. Any connection or pure coincidence?
The other conclusion is of course that carebears are more profitable...
You mean the MMORPG you pay a monthly fee for is a profit making enterprise?
EVE RELATED CONTENT |
Maximillian Bayonette
White Lion Manufacture and Salvage
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Posted - 2008.09.08 16:49:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Somealt Ofmine
shouldn't Empire be crowded to the brim, and 0.0 be empty?
D'uh... that's how it is now, precious. High sec needs a serious nerf. There's no way around it.
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Huberek Morchu
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Posted - 2008.09.08 17:01:00 -
[16]
Go write your own MMO and give me your stuff.
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Somealt Ofmine
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Posted - 2008.09.08 17:04:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Maximillian Bayonette
D'uh... that's how it is now, precious. High sec needs a serious nerf. There's no way around it.
Hmmm... looks to me like there's a big "no vacancy" sign in 0.0. I keep reading about capital fleet fights in the hundreds of ships. That's some serious isk being put on the line on a more-or-less constant basis. Doesn't look so empty to me. Yeah, there are a lot of empty systems, and some crowded ones. That's the same all over. The systems with the best resources tend to draw a crowd.
I'm all for a serious nerf to high-sec, as long as it's truly a serious nerf to high sec. Does it really need it? Nah. There is nothing that's going on in the game in Empire right now that is truly unbalancing. The biggest imbalance in the game right now is probably rare moons, and there are none of those in Empire.
Will CCP suffer a net loss of players if they do it? Probably. It'll turn Eve into a game that is wholly unfriendly to those who don't like to PvP, which is a substantial portion of everyone who plays MMOs.
Eve is no different from every other MMO in that you have people who want to build sand-castles, and people who want to kick other people's sand castles down, kick sand in their face, and take their buckets. If you ever let the population tip too far in the direction of the sand kickers, they will chase away all the sand builders and, because they don't really like kicking sand at each other, they'll abandon the game as soon as all the builders are gone.
I'm sure CCP is aware of that. They'll balance it as best they can. The sand-kickers will always whine that the sand-builders are too well protected, and the sand-builders will always whine that there is too much sand flying around. No way around that.
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Felicity Waring
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Posted - 2008.09.08 17:04:00 -
[18]
Quote:
An exploit is taking advantage of a bug or deficiency in the game mechanics instead of reporting it. None of what you listed is an exploit, because it's working as intended.
Nice to see you removed the personal attack about my 'forum warrioring' before I could quote it. And just for the record first time posting, been playing MMO's for about 8 years so thanks. Anyway it may be 'working as intended' in it's current state doesn't mean I can't complain about it. Up until a few days ago suicide ganking was working as intended and the collective whining got that changed didn't it? And it is an exploit how can you tell me it's not when people who choose to live under the protection of Empire have arguably the same or better advantages, isk making potential as players who choose not to and risk it all doing so.
Quote:
You war-dec corporations, not individuals, in Eve. Disbanding the corp or leaving it is a perfectly legitimate and logical response to a war-dec. It is, in effect, surrendering. If you are looking for fights, and don't want your war targets to surrender without firing a shot, try deccing a corp that's bigger and stronger than yours. They probably won't disband, and you'll get all the PvP you want. Maybe even more than you want. War decs are not your free ticket to easy ganks.
Please take your head out of the sand, want me to link you 100 carebears with a corp history showing every time they get war-decced they jump corp (leaving an alt in charge) only to come back after it's over. It's not surrendering, it's circumventing the war-dec mechanic in game: ei an exploit. CCP ruled as such a few weeks ago about players doing the opposite to catch war-targets with their pants down, why is it acceptable for carebears to do it?
Quote:
Tip: You can live in low-sec for a long time and never go sec negative. Just don't shoot at folks who aren't flashy red.
Hey yeah you can! If you always want to be at a disadvantage in the fight
Quote:
If you think all the advantages are in Empire, there's an easy and logical response. Move there, and reap all of these advantages that you keep blowing about. If you don't want to, why not? If it has all the advantages, and no drawbacks, shouldn't Empire be crowded to the brim, and 0.0 be empty?
Why would I move there? Kind of hard to get my yarr on then isn't it? :P The fact remains though that there are too many advantages to Empire that should be there for new players and are being exploited by years old carebears.
Quote:
Try making some sense. It's fun.
You first
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Jay Marshall
Caldari
Walks Forever Trade Inc
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Posted - 2008.09.08 17:06:00 -
[19]
Hmmm.
"NPC corp tax: If after 3 months you are still in an NPC corp you are taxed %50 of whatever you make."
Disagree with the 50% but your suggestion for possibly a tax is ok in that maybe a 5-10% might work if the rationale is it pays for your 3rd suggestion, that one needs to pay for Concords services.
Jumping corp to avoid war-decs should be deemed an exploit and bannable.
Agree.
CONCORD tax: If you want protection from CONCORD your Corp/Alliance should have to pay a hefty fee for it. Why not? Everywhere else you pay for the protection given you by time and isk invested defending your space.
See what I noted for point one.
No low-sec / null-sec minerals refined from Empire drops. I don't care if the ship prices triple I'd rather that than some exploiting carebear making isk for no risk while some other guy is hanging it on the line actually mining the stuff in hostile territory.
Disagree. If I run a level 4 mission then the loot that drops should be of high quality including minerials refined from items.
Reduction of mission rewards or flat out removal of level 3 and 4's in Empire. I'm sorry but in EVERY other MMO once you hit a certain point you move on, you can't continue to profit from PVE'ing in the starter area and that is what Empire is. I mission in low-sec all the time, use your brain because I haven't lost a ship yet.
Just because you can do missions with your buddies and alliances in nul-sec doesn't mean everyone can. I suck at ship combat myself, but I can play the market alright so that's what I do. If I want to make money then I stay in Empire doing market stuff, and the occasionaly mission.
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CEO
Walks Forever Trade Inc
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Drunk Driver
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.09.08 17:10:00 -
[20]
PIRATE REVENGE THREAD
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.09.08 17:12:00 -
[21]
Ships are hard to come by in 0.0? I'm glad I'm not in whatever alliances you're talking about.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Gone'Postal
Minmatar
Warped Mining
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Posted - 2008.09.08 17:13:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Felicity Waring
Removal of Exhumers and Mining barges from 1.0 and 0.9 space
LMFAO.. You want to tell people what ships they can fly where ???
How about you take your ideas bend over and shove em up ya ass where your head is.
Boost SISI VOTE NOW! |
Felicity Waring
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Posted - 2008.09.08 17:18:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Gone'Postal
Originally by: Felicity Waring
Removal of Exhumers and Mining barges from 1.0 and 0.9 space
LMFAO.. You want to tell people what ships they can fly where ???
How about you take your ideas bend over and shove em up ya ass where your head is.
Quoting the guy who most likely parks his 100m isk Hulk in a noobie system to afk mine himself to millions. And guess what? Dreadnaughts used to be allowed in Empire and they aren't anymore because of the unfair advantage they gave. Why should some new player to the game in his/her Bantam have to compete with multiple Hulks in their starter system? Unfair advantage, IS an exploit.
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Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.09.08 17:19:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Gone'Postal
Originally by: Felicity Waring
Removal of Exhumers and Mining barges from 1.0 and 0.9 space
LMFAO.. You want to tell people what ships they can fly where ???
How about you take your ideas bend over and shove em up ya ass where your head is.
I do have to wonder, though, why heavy mining equipment is allowed in hisec, where presumably Empires have dwindling belts and rely on said roids to fund their own land-side and space-side operations.
In the nature of a sandbox world, why can't we have capitals in hisec?
If you can give an RP reason why capitals aren't allowed, what's wrong with an RP reasons stating why high-end strip-mining equipment wouldn't be allowed?
All or nothing, I say!
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
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Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.09.08 17:20:00 -
[25]
Quote:
Quoting the guy who most likely parks his 100m isk Hulk in a noobie system to afk mine himself to millions. And guess what? Dreadnaughts used to be allowed in Empire and they aren't anymore because of the unfair advantage they gave. Why should some new player to the game in his/her Bantam have to compete with multiple Hulks in their starter system? Unfair advantage, IS an exploit.
Wait, I thought they allowed those dreads that are already in hisec to remain there, as long as they don't participate in combat or offer an unfair advantage?
For example, Chribba's?
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
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Felicity Waring
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Posted - 2008.09.08 17:21:00 -
[26]
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
Ships are hard to come by in 0.0? I'm glad I'm not in whatever alliances you're talking about.
Yeah because having Carrier and Jump freighter fleets is sooooooo much easier than flying to your local trade hub, not to mention cheaper!
By the way since you seem like an intelligent individual that was S - A - R - C - A - S - M
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Gone'Postal
Minmatar
Warped Mining
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Posted - 2008.09.08 17:25:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Felicity Waring
Quoting the guy who most likely parks his 100m isk Hulk in a noobie system to afk mine himself to millions. And guess what? Dreadnaughts used to be allowed in Empire and they aren't anymore because of the unfair advantage they gave. Why should some new player to the game in his/her Bantam have to compete with multiple Hulks in their starter system? Unfair advantage, IS an exploit.
Linkage My skills, I can't even fly a barge let alone a hulk.. Opps.. maybe I should ?
Unfair advantage is an exploit.. Oh god you get better....
I have more skill points then a noob, I have an unfair advantage as I started playign before he did, You going to petition my ass for it? please stop I really can't stop laughing here.. there are a LOT of things unfair in eve, suck it up and deal with it. iw ant to fly a titan but I have to wait.. if a noob parks infront of a hulk dreaming it gives him a goal not a reason to press F12.
Boost SISI VOTE NOW! |
An Anarchyyt
Gallente
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.09.08 17:25:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Felicity Waring
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
Ships are hard to come by in 0.0? I'm glad I'm not in whatever alliances you're talking about.
Yeah because having Carrier and Jump freighter fleets is sooooooo much easier than flying to your local trade hub, not to mention cheaper!
By the way since you seem like an intelligent individual that was S - A - R - C - A - S - M
I fly to 77s and then buy some ships. It's almost like it's a local trade hub.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Sirion Fujiwara
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Posted - 2008.09.08 17:25:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Felicity Waring
Originally by: Arctur Ceti
OR you can ignore them and go on with your EVE life.
Why should I? Carebears have proven quite effectively and even openly brag about it on these forums that whining will get them what they want. Well I want this imbalance fixed. Why should John Doe empire hugger #1276746323 have all these advantages over everyone else without having to pay any extra for it? Without any added risk for it? It's an exploit and it's unfair to the rest of the player base.
Claiming that playing along the established game mechanics in Empire is an "exploit" is frankly laughable. Look up the definition dude....
But if you think that everything is so much better in Empire, why don't you go live there? Why is 0.0 inherently more attractive to you, when everything out there - according to you - is so much worse?
Oh yes, I know! It looks beteer!! Oh... wait....
P.S. I live in both High, Low, and 0.0.
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Gone'Postal
Minmatar
Warped Mining
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Posted - 2008.09.08 17:26:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Ruze
Quote:
Quoting the guy who most likely parks his 100m isk Hulk in a noobie system to afk mine himself to millions. And guess what? Dreadnaughts used to be allowed in Empire and they aren't anymore because of the unfair advantage they gave. Why should some new player to the game in his/her Bantam have to compete with multiple Hulks in their starter system? Unfair advantage, IS an exploit.
Wait, I thought they allowed those dreads that are already in hisec to remain there, as long as they don't participate in combat or offer an unfair advantage?
For example, Chribba's?
They do, Capitals (Not sure on supercaps) are allowed in highsec, but under strict combat rules and they can't be build or jumped into highsec space.
Boost SISI VOTE NOW! |
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