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Deathifier
Minmatar
Carebears Must Die Ltd.
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Posted - 2008.09.08 20:05:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Deathifier on 08/09/2008 20:07:35
Sorry Duplicated post 
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Deathifier
Minmatar
Carebears Must Die Ltd.
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Posted - 2008.09.08 20:07:00 -
[62]
With regard to the declared exploit of joining corp and immediately leaving to avoid consequences of ganking a target, I had the experience of the other side of that recently.
I wardecced an empire mining/carebearing corp a few weeks back, due to the excessive and totally lame smacktalk after I flipped a can of theirs containing a few k ore one day in a high sec belt.
After the war dec goes active, I warp to a planet, and locate the belt they're at using directional scan. Warp in with weapons/point cycling, lock target, then BAM... concorded. Seems they left for npc corp just as I warped in.
Turns out these guys are high sec alts of Veritas Immortalis alliance players.
So it would seem the hardcore 0.0 pvp killmail whoring guys are using lame tactics to avoid pvp with their isk printers/logistics.
Can this sort of thing be petitioned as exploit now, or is it just the insta-leaving corp after ganking???
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Felicity Waring
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Posted - 2008.09.08 20:07:00 -
[63]
 Quote:
Seems like the OP is in emorage mode here.
Yep I'm raging alright 
Quote:
Ive been in 0.0 alliances before - thanks but no thanks, dont want to play cap ships online anymore.
Nowhere in any of my posts did I say you had to leave Empire but if you did more than skim the OP you'd know that.
Quote:
As far as low sec goes - nobody says you have to shoot everyone you see first, nobody says you have to squish pods, no reason to go below -5 unless you choose to.
Thanks for proving my point actually, I choose to do those things and there are consequences/disadvantages to my actions. You choose to stay in Empire 99% safe and secure and make a pretty good living doing it, where are the consequences/disadvantages to that?
Quote:
50% tax?? be real.
Why not you get all this protection and advantage for free, how about instead of taxing players hiding in NPC corps they start replacing my ships for free when I get blown up pew, pewing? It boils down to the same thing.
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Bean Doodle
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.09.08 20:10:00 -
[64]
the only thing they need to fix is mission loot
the fact that MINERS aren't the primary source of MINERals is ******ed.
make it so getting all your minerals from refined loot is no longer viable and people will start going to lowsec and nullsec again.
completely unrelated, the one thing hisec. lowsec and nullsec have in common is that irl theyre all nullsex XD |
Felicity Waring
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Posted - 2008.09.08 20:13:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Felicity Waring on 08/09/2008 20:15:50
Originally by: Deathifier
Can this sort of thing be petitioned as exploit now, or is it just the insta-leaving corp after ganking???
It's a bullshit tactic no matter if they are someones alt or their mains and nope they are within their rights to dodge it like that and it's 'working as intended' according to CCP, very lame and should be considered an exploit.
EDIT:
Quote:
completely unrelated, the one thing hisec. lowsec and nullsec have in common is that irl theyre all nullsex XD
LOL, guess I'm lucky my gf is a gamer (she plays WOW though) so I don't miss out on sex due to 'spouse aggro'
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Malcanis
RuffRyders
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.09.08 20:20:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Deathifier
With regard to the declared exploit of joining corp and immediately leaving to avoid consequences of ganking a target, I had the experience of the other side of that recently.
I wardecced an empire mining/carebearing corp a few weeks back, due to the excessive and totally lame smacktalk after I flipped a can of theirs containing a few k ore one day in a high sec belt.
After the war dec goes active, I warp to a planet, and locate the belt they're at using directional scan. Warp in with weapons/point cycling, lock target, then BAM... concorded. Seems they left for npc corp just as I warped in.
Turns out these guys are high sec alts of Veritas Immortalis alliance players.
So it would seem the hardcore 0.0 pvp killmail whoring guys are using lame tactics to avoid pvp with their isk printers/logistics.
Can this sort of thing be petitioned as exploit now, or is it just the insta-leaving corp after ganking???
Try it. I'll give good odds you get a "working as intended".
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Quaxtl
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Posted - 2008.09.08 20:21:00 -
[67]
Are you a troll?
Firstly, the changes you propose would bring EVE to it's knees within months - there are a LOT of 'carebears' who would leave in short order.
Secondly, not everyone wants to play on the edge. And there is no problem with this. It sounds like you have been blown up one too many times and are jealous of the safety offered by high sec, but you are unable to enter.
This also sounds like a skewed view of risk vs. reward. While high sec is rewarding and low risk, it is nothing compared with the rewards of null-sec (ok, I'll admit it, there is no reason to pick low-sec over high sec, but this a problem with low-sec, rather than high sec).
I agree entirely with the previous posters.
That all said, perhaps it would be interesting to have a game when people where instantly chucked into the deep end and whoose only hope resided with player corps. However, there would have to be some sort of incentive to recruit the newbies, because as it stands, the main factor that keeps 'carebears' in high sec is that the inhabitabants of null and low sec repel all their attempts at venturing out, and this means the risk is far too high compared to the small reward.
In situations where people have a choice, you can't force them to do something, you have to give them a reason to. You clearly do not recognise this.
One last thing - Empire is not a 'starter' area. Empire is simply a place where you begin. You can stay in empire and still 'move on'. Such freedom is the beauty of EVE. For example; advanced industry, trade and wars all take place in high sec (I don't mean exclusively). Your ideas of 'moving on' and game progression do not apply to EVE. Perhaps WoW, but certainly not a sandbox game such as this.
For your information, I do not live in high sec. 
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Troezar
Personal Vendetta
Vendetta Alliance.
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Posted - 2008.09.08 20:45:00 -
[68]
Originally by: SoftRevolution
Originally by: Troezar
Originally by: Hungo
lol ur a fool
THIS IS NOT A PVP CENTERED GAME, IT IS NOT DEEMED TO REVOLVE AROUND PVP
You CANNOT force others to live as you do, it is beyond selfish, the sheer arragonce of what you are suggesting and arguing is beyond even common courtesy limits
Funny thing back in '03 I'm sure I remember the Icelandic CCP being all for EVE being a pvp game. These days there seems to be a lot of US influence in the staff and the playerbase and much more pve emphasis. Any connection or pure coincidence?
The other conclusion is of course that carebears are more profitable...
You mean the MMORPG you pay a monthly fee for is a profit making enterprise?
There are degrees of profit, where does compromising your original values begin and pandering to the most voiciferous subscribers...
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Felicity Waring
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Posted - 2008.09.08 21:02:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Quaxtl
Are you a troll?
Firstly, the changes you propose would bring EVE to it's knees within months - there are a LOT of 'carebears' who would leave in short order.
Secondly, not everyone wants to play on the edge. And there is no problem with this. It sounds like you have been blown up one too many times and are jealous of the safety offered by high sec, but you are unable to enter.
This also sounds like a skewed view of risk vs. reward. While high sec is rewarding and low risk, it is nothing compared with the rewards of null-sec (ok, I'll admit it, there is no reason to pick low-sec over high sec, but this a problem with low-sec, rather than high sec).
I agree entirely with the previous posters.
That all said, perhaps it would be interesting to have a game when people where instantly chucked into the deep end and whoose only hope resided with player corps. However, there would have to be some sort of incentive to recruit the newbies, because as it stands, the main factor that keeps 'carebears' in high sec is that the inhabitabants of null and low sec repel all their attempts at venturing out, and this means the risk is far too high compared to the small reward.
In situations where people have a choice, you can't force them to do something, you have to give them a reason to. You clearly do not recognise this.
One last thing - Empire is not a 'starter' area. Empire is simply a place where you begin. You can stay in empire and still 'move on'. Such freedom is the beauty of EVE. For example; advanced industry, trade and wars all take place in high sec (I don't mean exclusively). Your ideas of 'moving on' and game progression do not apply to EVE. Perhaps WoW, but certainly not a sandbox game such as this.
For your information, I do not live in high sec.
Again why would they leave? Because CCP was making them deal with the same scenario as everyone else? I take risks to play the way I do, I accept consequences to play the way I do. Long term Empire huggers that practice the things I've mentioned do not, end of story, no consequences for them in their cushy EVE life.
So what I've been blown up, honestly I laugh when it happens, I don't want the security they have, no one is forcing them to leave Empire, I just want them to pay for it the way I pay for the freedom I have.
And once again no one's saying chuck new players into the deep end for 'funz' I'm all about bringing new players into the game and when I don't feel like roaming or whatever most often can be found in the Help channel answering new players questions but why are some of these carebears afforded the same advantages (no tax, no war-decs for example) as a week old new player to the game? I don't want to make everyone play 'MY' game but seriously sandbox or not the things that I mentioned in my OP are:
a) Lame
b) In need of looking at by CCP
Agree with me or don't thats up to you but there are people who do and as the carebears have proved time and time again if you make enough noise about it someone will eventually listen.
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Cyb3r Thr3at
Mnemonic Enterprises
New Eden Research
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Posted - 2008.09.08 21:10:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Cyb3r Thr3at on 08/09/2008 21:13:14
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Tiberius Maddox
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Posted - 2008.09.08 21:37:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Tiberius Maddox on 08/09/2008 21:43:20
OP, interesting post. I know where you're coming from on the high-sec tax issue and that idea does have some merit. It's something CCP should at least consider.
That said, be careful what you ask for because you just might get it. If CCP actully imposes a tax on players in high-sec, high-sec players will probably feel they then have a legitimate right to security and services from the empire they are helping to fund. After all, people generally do have a reasonable expectation for government to provide services and protection in return for taxes, right? If the tax for operations were very high, high-sec dwellers would probably have some ammunition to back up their demands for reliable protection from Concord.
I'm not saying I agree with that reasoning, but I foresee that being one of the arguments if CCP nerfs high-sec and imposes a big tax.
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Pithecanthropus
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Posted - 2008.09.08 21:48:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Deathifier
After the war dec goes active, I warp to a planet, and locate the belt they're at using directional scan. Warp in with weapons/point cycling, lock target, then BAM... concorded. Seems they left for npc corp just as I warped in.
Turns out these guys are high sec alts of Veritas Immortalis alliance players.
So it would seem the hardcore 0.0 pvp killmail whoring guys are using lame tactics to avoid pvp with their isk printers/logistics.
Can this sort of thing be petitioned as exploit now, or is it just the insta-leaving corp after ganking???
Seems one lame tactic got outsmarted by another lame tactic. I think you're just peeved you got the blunt of that battle. But, judging from your corps name, I can see you pride yourself on pvp-ing against non-pvpers. That's the bigger travesty among all this.
---------------------------------
Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man. |
Malcanis
RuffRyders
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.09.08 21:52:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Pithecanthropus
Originally by: Deathifier
After the war dec goes active, I warp to a planet, and locate the belt they're at using directional scan. Warp in with weapons/point cycling, lock target, then BAM... concorded. Seems they left for npc corp just as I warped in.
Turns out these guys are high sec alts of Veritas Immortalis alliance players.
So it would seem the hardcore 0.0 pvp killmail whoring guys are using lame tactics to avoid pvp with their isk printers/logistics.
Can this sort of thing be petitioned as exploit now, or is it just the insta-leaving corp after ganking???
Seems one lame tactic got outsmarted by another lame tactic. I think you're just peeved you got the blunt of that battle. But, judging from your corps name, I can see you pride yourself on pvp-ing against non-pvpers. That's the bigger travesty among all this.
Ypu know, in a way, I have to congratulate you. You do more damage to the cause of hi-sec carebears than I could ever hope to.
/salute
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Piper Halliwell
Minmatar
Phantom Squad
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Posted - 2008.09.08 22:44:00 -
[74]
Crappy post #123568 congratulations you may already be a loser...whoops too late. And yes I am a PvPer and occasionally a pirate not a care bear.
--------------------
You've got a gun, I've got a gun, Let's write a tragic ending.
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Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.09.08 22:47:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Pithecanthropus
Originally by: Deathifier
After the war dec goes active, I warp to a planet, and locate the belt they're at using directional scan. Warp in with weapons/point cycling, lock target, then BAM... concorded. Seems they left for npc corp just as I warped in.
Turns out these guys are high sec alts of Veritas Immortalis alliance players.
So it would seem the hardcore 0.0 pvp killmail whoring guys are using lame tactics to avoid pvp with their isk printers/logistics.
Can this sort of thing be petitioned as exploit now, or is it just the insta-leaving corp after ganking???
Seems one lame tactic got outsmarted by another lame tactic. I think you're just peeved you got the blunt of that battle. But, judging from your corps name, I can see you pride yourself on pvp-ing against non-pvpers. That's the bigger travesty among all this.
Ypu know, in a way, I have to congratulate you. You do more damage to the cause of hi-sec carebears than I could ever hope to.
/salute
Seriously, Mal, I was just thinking the exact same thing. When some of these guys post, it makes the pro-hisec crowd facepalm and think 'am I really agreeing with that?'
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
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SPIONKOP
Caldari
Warp Core Tech
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Posted - 2008.09.08 22:55:00 -
[76]
I like empire. I play the game the way I want to play it. I invested in science and industy. My hauler, freighter, or barge (if I had one) can not compete with a pirate with high skills in combat.
The rewards in low sec suck. As for 0.0 space why should I go their when 20% and more of any income I make goes to pay for the alliance/corp senior members GTC's, Titans, MOMS and officer mods.
Your ideas will simply have the effect of driving people away from the game and causing hyper inflation.
If you had any bottle you would post with your main.
You Sir, win the award for Dumb Alt Post of the year.
---------------------------------------------
Space For Rent.
100mil ISK/Week.
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Malcanis
RuffRyders
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.09.08 23:00:00 -
[77]
Originally by: SPIONKOP
I like empire. I play the game the way I want to play it. I invested in science and industy. My hauler, freighter, or barge (if I had one) can not compete with a pirate with high skills in combat.
Your main competition isn't pirates.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
SPIONKOP
Caldari
Warp Core Tech
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Posted - 2008.09.08 23:06:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: SPIONKOP
I like empire. I play the game the way I want to play it. I invested in science and industy. My hauler, freighter, or barge (if I had one) can not compete with a pirate with high skills in combat.
Your main competition isn't pirates.
It is if I was to haul, mission, rat or mine in low sec.
---------------------------------------------
Space For Rent.
100mil ISK/Week.
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Durzel
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.09.08 23:43:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Felicity Waring
Originally by: Arctur Ceti
OR you can ignore them and go on with your EVE life.
Why should I? Carebears have proven quite effectively and even openly brag about it on these forums that whining will get them what they want. Well I want this imbalance fixed. Why should John Doe empire hugger #1276746323 have all these advantages over everyone else without having to pay any extra for it? Without any added risk for it? It's an exploit and it's unfair to the rest of the player base.
I want officer spawns in high-sec, and 6/10 upwards complexes and COSMOS complexes in high-sec where I can run them safely and loot billions of ISK worth of mods weekly.
All things considered the sort of ISK being made in high-sec pales into insignificance when you consider what's available in null-sec, as it should. So, nothing wrong there.
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Viginti
Domini Umbrus
Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.09.08 23:50:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Hungo
lol ur a fool
THIS IS NOT A PVP CENTERED GAME, IT IS NOT DEEMED TO REVOLVE AROUND PVP
You CANNOT force others to live as you do, it is beyond selfish, the sheer arragonce of what you are suggesting and arguing is beyond even common courtesy limits
Lol, when you troll right, no one sees it coming. Nice
DesuSig |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.09.08 23:52:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Felicity Waring
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
as for your tip, completely correct, and to what the other guy said about having some sort of disadvantage heh shooting the flashy red guy is almost always an advantage... Sentry guns! and if they are yellow... well they haven't shot you so w/e
I was talking about the advantage of taking the first shot if that wasn't really clear I don't know where you come from but in a bar fight you always want to get the first shot in, same thing applies to interweb spaceships games. Also I can count the number of times someone in low-sec a player (yellow or otherwise) hasn't attacked me on sight on no fingers, so you say 'w/e' all you want the fact is people are in low-sec mostly to fight and the first shot gives you that advantage no matter how small.
taking the 2nd shot is worth it every time if it means they get sentry aggro. (now if they are already flashy red and you feel confident enough to take them down without the help of sentries then yes take the first shot)
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Gamesguy
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.09.08 23:53:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Durzel
Originally by: Felicity Waring
Originally by: Arctur Ceti
OR you can ignore them and go on with your EVE life.
Why should I? Carebears have proven quite effectively and even openly brag about it on these forums that whining will get them what they want. Well I want this imbalance fixed. Why should John Doe empire hugger #1276746323 have all these advantages over everyone else without having to pay any extra for it? Without any added risk for it? It's an exploit and it's unfair to the rest of the player base.
I want officer spawns in high-sec, and 6/10 upwards complexes and COSMOS complexes in high-sec where I can run them safely and loot billions of ISK worth of mods weekly.
All things considered the sort of ISK being made in high-sec pales into insignificance when you consider what's available in null-sec, as it should. So, nothing wrong there.
Sure, you can have all those things, have fun making less isk/hour than ratting.
Because thats what nullsec exploration is, less isk/hour than ratting. You scan for hours and hours, finally find a site, and then the overseer drops nothing at the end, or you find an escalation, and it doesnt escalate.
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tadig smik
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.09.09 00:06:00 -
[83]
What irks me the most about these posts is that the OP has the option of playing the game in the same fashion as the people he's ranting about. I'm sorry but, if I see that Joe Pilot is making oodles of isk in 0.0 and I feel that I need to making oodles of isk, I'm going to find a way to get to 0.0. If I see that Joe Pilot is making oodles of isk running missions in empire and I feel that I need oddles of isk, I'm going to find a way to move from 0.0 to empire to do make oodles of isk...
You play your game the way that you want and let everyone else do the same....
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Felicity Waring
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Posted - 2008.09.09 00:09:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Durzel
Originally by: Felicity Waring
Originally by: Arctur Ceti
OR you can ignore them and go on with your EVE life.
Why should I? Carebears have proven quite effectively and even openly brag about it on these forums that whining will get them what they want. Well I want this imbalance fixed. Why should John Doe empire hugger #1276746323 have all these advantages over everyone else without having to pay any extra for it? Without any added risk for it? It's an exploit and it's unfair to the rest of the player base.
I want officer spawns in high-sec, and 6/10 upwards complexes and COSMOS complexes in high-sec where I can run them safely and loot billions of ISK worth of mods weekly.
All things considered the sort of ISK being made in high-sec pales into insignificance when you consider what's available in null-sec, as it should. So, nothing wrong there.
Yeah you'd love that wouldn't you...
I'll flip the argument around:
I want CONCORD like protection in null-sec for absolutley no cost or effort to myself.
I want missions that I can semi-afk in a PVE fit ship (making millions) without a thought in my mind about who just jumped into local, whos on the other side of that gate.
I want avoiding a war to be as easy as clicking a 'quit corp' button.
I want no taxes and no way to be attacked EVER.
Face it Empire and the practices I've described in my OP are easy mode and you all know it, thats why every thread like this has 100 people freaking out in it screaming about 'leaving the game' and 'the sky is falling' all while insulting the OP and only reading what you want to. This is all because you are scared CCP will start listening to the people on the other side of the spectrum and you might have to actually 'pay some dues' for the secure, comfortable, easy mode life you all take for granted.
Anyway carry on, an oldie but a goody is 'Carebear tears fuel my ship' and I've juuuuust about got enough for a month of fleet ops
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Gamesguy
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.09.09 00:10:00 -
[85]
Originally by: tadig smik
What irks me the most about these posts is that the OP has the option of playing the game in the same fashion as the people he's ranting about. I'm sorry but, if I see that Joe Pilot is making oodles of isk in 0.0 and I feel that I need to making oodles of isk, I'm going to find a way to get to 0.0. If I see that Joe Pilot is making oodles of isk running missions in empire and I feel that I need oddles of isk, I'm going to find a way to move from 0.0 to empire to do make oodles of isk...
You play your game the way that you want and let everyone else do the same....
So you're opposed to the nano nerf, suicide ganking nerf, wardec nerf, etc then?
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.09.09 00:28:00 -
[86]
Originally by: SPIONKOP
I like empire. I play the game the way I want to play it. I invested in science and industy. My hauler, freighter, or barge (if I had one) can not compete with a pirate with high skills in combat.
The rewards in low sec suck. As for 0.0 space why should I go their when 20% and more of any income I make goes to pay for the alliance/corp senior members GTC's, Titans, MOMS and officer mods.
Your ideas will simply have the effect of driving people away from the game and causing hyper inflation.
If you had any bottle you would post with your main.
You Sir, win the award for Dumb Alt Post of the year.
right, but the op wasn't criticizing your style of game play really in anyway, that is unless you are a corp hopper.
and as for the concord tax, well concord pays out the bounties, and I would imagine there is a load of taxes involved with that, and also there is a sales tax. so w/e to that bit
oh and ffs why the hell do people join corps that just go out and buy their leadership stuff... Idle does that to some extent, but we also pay for insurance and new ships for any player that has been in the corp for over a month.
his post was pretty good, a wee bit strong on somethings but pretty good.
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Tyrenical
Caldari
The Space Traveller's Inn
Black Sun Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.09 01:04:00 -
[87]
Nerf Warlocks.
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gpfwestie
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.09.09 01:14:00 -
[88]
Well the lights out,
Yes it's dangerous,
Here we are now,
Entertain us,
etc
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CheezMatarBurger
No Dukt Teip
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Posted - 2008.09.09 01:38:00 -
[89]
The REAL issue is ugly people like you scaring others away tbh.
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Felicity Waring
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Posted - 2008.09.09 01:52:00 -
[90]
Originally by: CheezMatarBurger
The REAL issue is ugly people like you scaring others away tbh.
Quote:
Face it Empire and the practices I've described in my OP are easy mode and you all know it, thats why every thread like this has 100 people freaking out in it screaming about 'leaving the game' and 'the sky is falling' all while insulting the OP and only reading what you want to.
Personal attacks: Check!
Seriously though what do my looks have to do with anything? I'm pretty darn sexy actually, ask your Mom (in-game )
But yeah keep on thrashing, wailing and flaming Carebears, if you have done one of the previous you are most likely guilty of one if not more of the things I have listed in the OP. Just think if you cry hard enough by this time next year we'll have to 'check our guns at the door' before entering Empire 
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