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A Change to Command Ships and Leadership Skills

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Dr Cedric Caldari Orbital Industry and Research.	Posted - 2008.09.09 05:56:00 - [1] So, I've been a CS pilot for a few months now (yay Vulture....or something) and I've noticed a few inconsistencies with the leadership skills and the boni that each Race's CS gets. Here is the problem as I see it. There are 4 types of leadership skill trees - Shield (siege), Armor, Information, and Skirmish. Shield is for shield stuff, armor is for armor stuff, Info is for sensor stuff and Skirmish is for speed stuff. Makes sense so far, but the problem is when you apply these skill trees to the CS. Caldari get the Vulture, which give bonuses to Siege warfare, so, more shields - Good. Amarr gets the Damnation, which gives bonuses to Armored warfare, more armor...makes sense. Gallente get bonus to Information warfare...which all in all gives bonus to targeting range (OK so far), Ewar module strength (why do Gallente need this), Ewar module range (again...what do gallente do w/ Ewar modules) and ship sensor strength (this is decent. Minmatar get the Claymore, which gives bonuses to Skirmish warfare, all in all this makes sense, but not every single Minny ship is awesome at zipping around at more than 4km/s. So with the above listed, you have 2 races w/ appropriate Ship Boni, 1 race with totally inappropriate boni, and the last race w/ useful, but only one sided boni. Here is my projected change: Add 2 more trees to Leadership: Drone warfare (or some other aptly named skill) and Energy warfare. These two new skill trees give the learner 2% bonus (similar to the original skills) to drone range and cap recharge per level. This makes it worth it for non racial characters to take the time to learn these skills. Once these skill trees are in place, change the boni for the command ships as such: Give each race 2 command ship boni - a 5% (or less, to be determined i guess) bonus to its racially appropriate skill and a 3% bonus to either Siege or Armored warfare. Vulture 5% bonus to information warfare, 3% to Siege Eos 5% bonus to drone warfare, 3% to armored Claymore 5% bonus to Skirmish warfare, 3% to seige or armored.... Damnation 5% bonus to Energy warfare, 3% to armored. Modules to add: Energy warfare links - #1 A range link to increase the NOS/Neut range #2 A Drain/Neut boost to increase the effectiveness of each module #3 A Remote capacitor transfer amount boost Drone Warfare Links - #1 A HP/MWD/Tracking/Optimal or the boost (choose one or several) #2 A Damage boost (this would affect only drones, not fighters) #3 A % boost to the bandwidth of ships to allow more drones or bigger drones for ships Rationale: If we look at the recon class of each race we can see the approprate boni that each ship needs (barring Gallente who seem to have been crapped on in this instance) Caldari get Ewar, Amarr get energy Neut/Nos, Minmitar get Speed web/speed stuff, and Gallente get crap... : ) In this case, it seems appropriate to give bonuses to what the race of ships actually use. This would be a boost to factional warfare/ Role-players, and give command ships a boost in fleets. As it stands now, they are expensive targets that can only make a minor boost to a fleet but require a huge investment of skill training and ISK. Thanks for your constructive criticism and comments! Dr Cedric CEO Orbital Industry and Research -OIR-
Dr Cedric Caldari Orbital Industry and Research.	Posted - 2008.10.06 16:14:00 - [2] Hmm, just bumping up my original idea. I'd really appreciate any input/comments/criticisms you all have. Thanks! Dr Cedric CEO Orbital Industry and Research -OIR-
Viktrus Caldari Omega Engineering Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.06 16:48:00 - [3] Sounds nice. It'd be nice if the field command ships could run decent modules while fitting a decent ship out of it as well. Also, ever consider the idea of maybe modules that increase cloaking properties or so? we should be a command ship that appeals to every ship in the game, including covert and black ops.
Kash Ka Amarr Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.10.06 20:14:00 - [4] I like thye idea, sounds well balanced and thought out. --------------==============================-------------- Forgiveness is between you and god, im just here to arrange the meeting. "When death smiles at you, all you can do is smile back"
Dr Cedric Caldari Orbital Industry and Research.	Posted - 2008.10.06 20:44:00 - [5] Thanks for the comments, keep them coming. Anyone see any obvious flaws or defects with this idea? Dr Cedric CEO Orbital Industry and Research -OIR-
Sir Substance Minmatar MagiTech Alliance Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.06 20:55:00 - [6] the thing that stuck out at me was the link that allowed people extra bandwidth. bandwidth was introduced for a reason, better not to open up that can of worms that is messing with it. - PvPers always say "GB2WoW". the message is that EVE is hard, and people just need to deal with it. wasn't it funny how when nano's started making it hard for them, that all went out the window?
Del Narveux Dukes of Hazard	Posted - 2008.10.06 21:01:00 - [7] I basically agree with you, but I prefer streamlining the existing system to keep things simpler (I'm kind of a stickler for skills minimization): 1. Add some new warfare links to the existing stuff, specifically a few things for cap war in electronic warfare, and more options for the other three (e.g. remote repper bonuses for shield/armor) 2. Each CS now gets 3% bonus to two of the specs, in keeping with racial preferences, so we have: Eos - Armored/Skirmish Vulture - Shield/Electronic Amarr - Armored/Electronic (cap wars) Claymore - Shield/Skirmish Not only more balanced, but each possible offensive-defensive pairing can be had in a race's CS. And doesnt require training yet more skills. _________________ [IMAGE REMOVED] -- aka Cpt Bogus -- Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
Dr Cedric Caldari Orbital Industry and Research.	Posted - 2008.10.06 21:09:00 - [8] Originally by: Del Narveux I basically agree with you, but I prefer streamlining the existing system to keep things simpler (I'm kind of a stickler for skills minimization): 1. Add some new warfare links to the existing stuff, specifically a few things for cap war in electronic warfare, and more options for the other three (e.g. remote repper bonuses for shield/armor) 2. Each CS now gets 3% bonus to two of the specs, in keeping with racial preferences, so we have: Eos - Armored/Skirmish Vulture - Shield/Electronic Amarr - Armored/Electronic (cap wars) Claymore - Shield/Skirmish Not only more balanced, but each possible offensive-defensive pairing can be had in a race's CS. And doesnt require training yet more skills. This makes good sense too. And would be an easy way to get this change introduced. As i think about it also, I know alot of players have posted about "mini-command ships". If CCP introduce a system of playing that allows true commandships to have 2 boni stats, then you can allow a smaller ship class to give 1 boni stat. This could be a cool way to introduce these smaller command platforms. Good ideas! Dr Cedric CEO Orbital Industry and Research -OIR-
Asuka SoryuLangley	Posted - 2008.10.07 07:59:00 - [9] Signed for life! Good ideas, i hope CCP is reading and get at work asap
Clansworth Burning Sky Labs	Posted - 2008.10.07 09:15:00 - [10] So, what second leadership style does the Orca/Rorqual get.. ;-) Somewhat seriously though, the ideas look good. I definitely want some new leadership toys. Whether it is a new link for each style, or a couple new flavors entirely, I like it. New Prospector Class

Heikki Gallente Wreckless Abandon G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.10.07 15:27:00 - [11] The proposal, from my point of view, seem to have some issues like: 1) First it is huge boost proposal (5% instead of current 3% base bonus), when they already seem to be fine or close to overpowered (referring mostly to Fleet version). Granted they are specialized ships, but given their niche (one per race in 100+ fleets), they are already far far better than any sub-capital ship the fleet could instead have. 2) The proposal seems to mix up backstory stuff with game balance issues. Are there some other reasons why we couldn't have Gallente ship used to boost Caldari fleet? Are there major player organizations thats run race specific fleets; even minmatar RP corps use and allow other race ship. Backstory wise you could argue that Gallente are masters of EWar (well, it still says so out there), and the ship also boosts remote damping (Gallente ewar variant), although hardly anyone uses it for that. Although more variance (adding some not-so-important boost paths) would be nice, would have to be careful not to make 'win' comboes (like boosting sentry drones), or boost the ship class too much. -Lasse with 2.5 maxed gang-bonus command ship paths
Dr Cedric Caldari Orbital Industry and Research.	Posted - 2008.10.07 20:59:00 - [12] Originally by: Heikki The proposal, from my point of view, seem to have some issues like: 1) First it is huge boost proposal (5% instead of current 3% base bonus), when they already seem to be fine or close to overpowered (referring mostly to Fleet version). Granted they are specialized ships, but given their niche (one per race in 100+ fleets), they are already far far better than any sub-capital ship the fleet could instead have. 2) The proposal seems to mix up backstory stuff with game balance issues. Are there some other reasons why we couldn't have Gallente ship used to boost Caldari fleet? Are there major player organizations thats run race specific fleets; even minmatar RP corps use and allow other race ship. Backstory wise you could argue that Gallente are masters of EWar (well, it still says so out there), and the ship also boosts remote damping (Gallente ewar variant), although hardly anyone uses it for that. Although more variance (adding some not-so-important boost paths) would be nice, would have to be careful not to make 'win' comboes (like boosting sentry drones), or boost the ship class too much. -Lasse with 2.5 maxed gang-bonus command ship paths Honestly, I hadn't looked into the role-play history of the races chosen command ship platforms. Even though there might be a historical reason the roles are what they are, there is a disconnect between that and the practical implementation of what these ships are actually doing. Also, with the bonus at 5%, that was just a number. I'm sure that there would be some kind of balancing done, so I'm just putting the idea out there. Thanks for the input, lets keep it coming! Dr Cedric CEO Orbital Industry and Research -OIR-
Dr Cedric Caldari Orbital Industry and Research.	Posted - 2008.10.14 19:25:00 - [13] Weekly bump...thats what I get for going on Vacation..SHEESH! Dr Cedric CEO Orbital Industry and Research -OIR-
Su27frogfoot Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.10.14 20:41:00 - [14] I'm not that good at the CS aspect of the game but to me it looks like if you give the BC class hull that kind of boost it will make them far to "heavy" for there class. Better option as I see it is to make a new command ship class from a BS hull and use the old flagship skill that been in the database for ages. The one major problem with this would be the fact that you make a new thing that will take time to get into and use properly.


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