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Ekrid
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Posted - 2008.09.10 07:01:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Ekrid on 10/09/2008 07:03:30
1. they cost a lot less than faction ships.
2. you grind a lot less to get them.
3. their stats, bonuses, fittings, etc, are also better than faction.
4. wtf?
for proof, check the amarr navy slicer. I'm thinking the faction run militaries should always have the best stuff. I think that would make the cost worth it. instead of T2, you have a faction ship that you use to fight in, if you could afford it. Would make sense.
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Prof Patpending
Bodgit and Scarper Industrial
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Posted - 2008.09.10 07:03:00 -
[2]
Its true, a Golem costs less than a CNR... oh wait.
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Havohej
Minmatar
Comply Or Die
G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.09.10 07:04:00 -
[3]
It's Tech 2... you don't need any special skills trained to fly faction, all you need is ISK. T2 should be better, based on the tougher skill requirements alone - a reward for putting the time in and waiting for your benefits.
Not even a 1/10 on this one, mah man.
 Originally by: CCP Explorer
You can still steal their stuff.
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Ekrid
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Posted - 2008.09.10 07:04:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Ekrid on 10/09/2008 07:05:08
amarr navy slicer. 8 mil + 5000 LPs.
contracts. 30-50 mil.
worse in every way to a T2 frig.
I'm already flying T2 ships before having the faction to buy faction ships.
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Pan Fairchild
Atropos Asylum
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Posted - 2008.09.10 07:16:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Ekrid
Edited by: Ekrid on 10/09/2008 07:05:08
amarr navy slicer. 8 mil + 5000 LPs.
contracts. 30-50 mil.
worse in every way to a T2 frig.
I'm already flying T2 ships before having the faction to buy faction ships.
Meh, I always saw the faction gear as a roleplaying element. Make them better than T2 and everyone will fly it, make it cheaper then T2 and a gazillion noobs run around with poorly fitted 'elite' ships... either way neither one makes sense.
Although having said that whats up with the Dramiel? 25% dmg seems like a rather nice bonus... but a rifter can do more dps oh and run points and tank and well do just about everything the Dramiel does poorly.
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Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.09.10 07:31:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 10/09/2008 07:31:01
The faction ships were introduced before T2. They are far better than virtually any other T1 frigate, cruiser, or battleship. They are working as intended (I guess.)
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.09.10 07:52:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 10/09/2008 07:31:01
The faction ships were introduced before T2. They are far better than virtually any other T1 frigate, cruiser, or battleship. They are working as intended (I guess.)
Not really.
If you look at a number of faction frigs, they work worse then their T1 counterparts. Look at the Firetail for instance. It gets 0 slots over a Rifter, has a gun less, and worse fittings.
Some of the faction ships got a overhaul recently (Sansha, all the navy cruisers) and now they're quite good. Faction BS are very good as a rule. Navy Omen / Fleet Stabber / Navy Vexor / Navy Caracal (to some extent) are all good and valid ships. Many pirate faction cruisers have been left the same way for a long time and now they suck (in comparison to navy cruisers or even T1 cruisers in some cases) and are purely showoff ships nowdays.
Basically, faction frigates need fixing, and pirate faction cruisers need fixing.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Furb Killer
Gallente
The first genesis
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.09.10 07:52:00 -
[8]
Last time i checked faction cruisers were about as expensive as HACs (might have changed though, so dont shoot me for this), and empire faction BS are for sure cheaper than t2 BS.
So first point is incorrect
Second point is also incorrect. It is pretty much fail to buy them from LP shop, just buy them from contracts.
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Banana Torres
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.09.10 08:59:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Banana Torres on 10/09/2008 09:02:10
oops
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Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.09.10 09:05:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Not really.
The only advantage of the Rifter over the Firetail is higher DPS and a negligibly smaller mass. Firetail is like 50% better than the Rifter in HP and capacitor (although I don't have EFT so I'm not sure how the slower recharge time actually affects the true level of capacitor power on the Firetail.)
Faction ships aren't an automatic win button in 1v1's with a non-faction T1 counterpart, but they do tend to have higher stats. The stats typically aren't good enough to justify their high prices, although it might in the case of some of the battleships, so I won't try to argue on that point.
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Jalaliba
Minmatar
Jalaliba Trading Company
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Posted - 2008.09.10 09:44:00 -
[11]
I don't know about the other Faction ships but the Firetail outclasses a Rifter on speed, cap recharge and overall tank, the Rifter outclasses the Firetail on DPS.
Of course, the relative prices of a few hundred thousand for a Rifter compared to a couple of ten millions for a Firetail, means the Rifter is a hell of a more cost-effective warship.
However, Faction Warfare does give the Faction ships a unique place due to ship restrictions, but only for level 1 & 2 missions/complexes.
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Asestorian
Federation of Freedom Fighters
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.09.10 09:58:00 -
[12]
I've always seen most of the faction ships as collectors items, or ships used by those with just a little bit more ISK than they really know what to do with. It was only ever really at the Battleship level that you could see a decent improvement and reason to spend a little more cash on setting it up, because there were no Tech II Battleships. As it is now it's still a similar case as the Tech II Battleships we have are a broken Recon type and a mission running type 
---
Originally by: CCP Atropos
Destiny Balls
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.09.10 10:00:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 10/09/2008 10:02:06
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Not really.
The only advantage of the Rifter over the Firetail is higher DPS and a negligibly smaller mass. Firetail is like 50% better than the Rifter in HP and capacitor (although I don't have EFT so I'm not sure how the slower recharge time actually affects the true level of capacitor power on the Firetail.)
Rifter has more fittings as well, and a preety big DPS difference. Saying the Firetail is better is simply incorrect at any rate.
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Faction ships aren't an automatic win button in 1v1's with a non-faction T1 counterpart, but they do tend to have higher stats.
Well, take a look at faction cruisers (particularly navy ones) vs T1 cruisers. They're a automatic win button assuming any skill parity - they have more slots (often significantly more), more fittings, better stats, and so on. They rock T1 cruisers much the same way HACs rock T1 cruisers.
On the other hand, pirate faction cruisers (except the Sansha one - Phantasm, because Sansha ships got boosted some patches ago) preety much suck. Their fittings were not touched in years, and they often get less slots then navy faction ones. Basically, they need fixing.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Namtar
Gallente
Rogue Industries
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Posted - 2008.09.10 11:05:00 -
[14]
There not as good as T2 because there T1 ships.
If CCP ever put out faction T2 ships then you might have a point.
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Steve Hawkings
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Posted - 2008.09.10 11:27:00 -
[15]
and you point is ???
Time is not Money and minerals i mine are free!! |
Borar
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.09.10 11:30:00 -
[16]
Faction ships are for noobs with low skills ,then they rock.
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DubanFP
Caldari
Out of Order
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Posted - 2008.09.10 11:34:00 -
[17]
Next time look at the ship before you try to buy it. Faction ships are just fun little trophies to play with ayways.
_______________
"Cheap" and "Lame" are words created by people who refuse to admit they have been completely outclassed |
heheheh
PedoHamma
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Posted - 2008.09.10 11:39:00 -
[18]
yea faction ships arent suppose to be the best,
just a thing to collect.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.09.10 11:40:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 10/09/2008 11:40:17
Originally by: DubanFP
Next time look at the ship before you try to buy it. Faction ships are just fun little trophies to play with ayways.
Originally by: heheheh
yea faction ships arent suppose to be the best,
just a thing to collect.
I'll just assume you haven't even been reading (even though I conceptually disagree that they are/should be just a thing to keep in hangar).
Take a, say, Fleet Stabber, or most of the other navy cruisers. They got boosted a bit ago, and are now light years better then T1 cruisers - or non-Sansha pirate faction cruisers (which are now rather broken). They're somewhat worse then HACs for flat out combat, of course (although arguably better for some things). Basically, they're fine. Other ships in the same class as them require loving.
Take a Succubus when we talk about faction frigates. It's way better then T1 frigates and only somewhat inferior to AFs. Now compare it to a Firetail or a Dramiel which suck in the most spectacular fashion. Do you get the issue now?
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.09.10 11:40:00 -
[20]
I wish the faction ships were more in line with named items. Meta 4, that kind of thing. Equal to T2 ships, in short.
And I wish there were a lot more faction ships.
Amarr Navy Slicer ... let it be on line with the Amarr interceptors, except without the extra T2 bonus. An expensive ship that is on par with T2, just like Meta 4 is on par with T2. T2 is better, due to skill bonuses, but on the base item, it's nearly the same.
We need more faction ships, too. I want an Amarr Navy Punisher, or a Navy Issue Armageddon. Ahh, those would be nice.
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
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Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.09.10 11:41:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 10/09/2008 11:40:17
Originally by: DubanFP
Next time look at the ship before you try to buy it. Faction ships are just fun little trophies to play with ayways.
Originally by: heheheh
yea faction ships arent suppose to be the best,
just a thing to collect.
I'll just assume you haven't even been reading (even though I conceptually disagree that they are/should be just a thing to keep in hangar).
Take a, say, Fleet Stabber, or most of the other navy cruisers. They got boosted a bit ago, and are now light years better then T1 cruisers - or non-Sansha pirate faction cruisers (which are now rather broken). They're somewhat worse then HACs for flat out combat, of course (although arguably better for some things). Basically, they're fine. Other ships in the same class as them require loving.
Take a Succubus when we talk about faction frigates. It's way better then T1 frigates and only somewhat inferior to AFs. Now compare it to a Firetail or a Dramiel which suck in the most spectacular fashion. Do you get the issue now?
Yeah, they really need to show the Dramiel some loving. Firetail? Meh, who cares about the firetail. But the Dramiel is pure sexy!
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
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Steve Hawkings
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Posted - 2008.09.10 11:42:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Steve Hawkings on 10/09/2008 11:41:52
lol
Time is not Money and minerals i mine are free!! |
heheheh
PedoHamma
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Posted - 2008.09.10 11:43:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 10/09/2008 11:40:17
Originally by: DubanFP
Next time look at the ship before you try to buy it. Faction ships are just fun little trophies to play with ayways.
Originally by: heheheh
yea faction ships arent suppose to be the best,
just a thing to collect.
I'll just assume you haven't even been reading (even though I conceptually disagree that they are/should be just a thing to keep in hangar).
Take a, say, Fleet Stabber, or most of the other navy cruisers. They got boosted a bit ago, and are now light years better then T1 cruisers - or non-Sansha pirate faction cruisers (which are now rather broken). They're somewhat worse then HACs for flat out combat, of course (although arguably better for some things). Basically, they're fine. Other ships in the same class as them require loving.
Take a Succubus when we talk about faction frigates. It's way better then T1 frigates and only somewhat inferior to AFs. Now compare it to a Firetail or a Dramiel which suck in the most spectacular fashion. Do you get the issue now?
I understood the issue in the first place, there is no issue.
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Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.09.10 11:44:00 -
[24]
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the ops original point is that if you compare faction items to named items and T2 items, you get an obviously 'superior' product over pretty much every T1 item, and on the base item, even over T2 (not including skill bonuses).
Ships should reflect that trend. Faction ships should be better than even their T2 counterparts, minus a bonus and correlating skills. Resistances, fitting, etc.
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
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Steve Hawkings
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Posted - 2008.09.10 11:46:00 -
[25]
Quote:
Ships should reflect that trend. Faction ships should be better than even their T2 counterparts, minus a bonus and correlating skills. Resistances, fitting, etc.
why ?
becuse you say so ?
I disagree wholeheartedly, they are for your hangar or high sec showing off, and they require not many skills compared to T2.
Time is not Money and minerals i mine are free!! |
Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.09.10 11:50:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Steve Hawkings
Quote:
Ships should reflect that trend. Faction ships should be better than even their T2 counterparts, minus a bonus and correlating skills. Resistances, fitting, etc.
why ?
becuse you say so ?
I disagree wholeheartedly, they are for your hangar or high sec showing off, and they require not many skills compared to T2.
Well, it's one of those 'if it makes sense here, why not there' moments for me. If it makes sense for faction modules to be the omgwtfpwnage, horribly overpriced modules that they are ... why does it not make sense that faction ships shouldn't reflect that?
Faction modules don't require many skills compared to their T2 counterparts, do they?
Maybe it's not faction ships that are broken, but faction modules.
Or, maybe this is just a simple discussion and we can just agree to disagree. I don't expect any changes to come off of a single, poorly thought out 'discuss' post. Not sure where all the hate is being generated lately 
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.09.10 11:50:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Steve Hawkings
Quote:
Ships should reflect that trend. Faction ships should be better than even their T2 counterparts, minus a bonus and correlating skills. Resistances, fitting, etc.
why ?
becuse you say so
that's more to the point many faction items are just that, less skills better gear.
the idea being that if your newer it doesn't mean your wearer if you put more time into the game.
and risk more.
I don't see what's wrong with giving them a role, they don't have to replace tech 2 ships to be better than them in some way, or maybe justas good.
I disagree wholeheartedly, they are for your hangar or high sec showing off, and they require not many skills compared to T2.
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Gonada
Priory Of The Lemon
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.10 11:51:00 -
[28]
Obviously you've never had a Macheriel
yes thats a faction ship and with the skills in place, pretty much the best damn BS out there, least imho.
Please, jump into traffic
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.09.10 11:54:00 -
[29]
Originally by: heheheh
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 10/09/2008 11:40:17
Originally by: DubanFP
Next time look at the ship before you try to buy it. Faction ships are just fun little trophies to play with ayways.
Originally by: heheheh
yea faction ships arent suppose to be the best,
just a thing to collect.
I'll just assume you haven't even been reading (even though I conceptually disagree that they are/should be just a thing to keep in hangar).
Take a, say, Fleet Stabber, or most of the other navy cruisers. They got boosted a bit ago, and are now light years better then T1 cruisers - or non-Sansha pirate faction cruisers (which are now rather broken). They're somewhat worse then HACs for flat out combat, of course (although arguably better for some things). Basically, they're fine. Other ships in the same class as them require loving.
Take a Succubus when we talk about faction frigates. It's way better then T1 frigates and only somewhat inferior to AFs. Now compare it to a Firetail or a Dramiel which suck in the most spectacular fashion. Do you get the issue now?
I understood the issue in the first place, there is no issue.
It's nice to see EvE is so friendly to the mentally handicapped.
Ok, let me put it like this:
(a) Some Faction ships suck horribly in comparison to other faction ships.
(b) Faction ships which suck in contrast to their counterparts need a boost to bring them up to their level.
(c) Faction ships which are worse then T1 need a fix.
Is that so complicated to understand?
Of course, people who cannot afford to PvP in faction ships will always whine that they're just a thing to collect.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
eddie valvetino
Caldari
ECP Rogues
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Posted - 2008.09.10 12:00:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Ekrid
Edited by: Ekrid on 10/09/2008 07:03:30
1. they cost a lot less than faction ships.
2. you grind a lot less to get them.
3. their stats, bonuses, fittings, etc, are also better than faction.
4. wtf?
for proof, check the amarr navy slicer. I'm thinking the faction run militaries should always have the best stuff. I think that would make the cost worth it. instead of T2, you have a faction ship that you use to fight in, if you could afford it. Would make sense.
wrong
Navy Mega sub 300mill
Kronos nearly 700mill
I don't see ya point anyway nor do i care
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) |
heheheh
PedoHamma
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Posted - 2008.09.10 12:02:00 -
[31]
he just spent alot on a ship and hes gutted its a crap one.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.09.10 12:02:00 -
[32]
Originally by: heheheh
Still see no problem here.
maybe we can argue more after your forum ban ?
Are you pretending to be a moderator now?
I'm sure that ships of one race being totally better then their counterparts of another race is not a balance issue. 
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.09.10 12:07:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: heheheh
Still see no problem here.
maybe we can argue more after your forum ban ?
Are you pretending to be a moderator now?
I'm sure that ships of one race being totally better then their counterparts of another race is not a balance issue.
Getting someone 'banned' takes a lot, and Bronco here is one of the tame ones. Some players will troll every single thread, throwing one-line nonesense with no intent to help the thread. Others issue threats and insults on an hourly basis.
I've only seen one ban for a horribly insulting and malicious poster, and she is already back at it. And she was going on that insult train for a long, long while beforehand, too.
There are some damn good faction ships, as has been pointed out. The Machriel and the Succubus being two of them.
But ones like the Amarr Navy Slicer? It's a joke. Who in their right mind would choose to use it over an Executioner?
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
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Mia Archer
Amarr
Insidious Existence
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.10 12:12:00 -
[34]
while for the most part faction ships are right where they should be in my opinion there are several that are clearly not balanced properly the Ashimmu for example is pretty much a useless piece of shit if you actually try to fit it the way it's obviously intended to fit, simply due to its craptastic grid for its massive number of high slots + armor tank + web role, the only decent fittings i have ever seen for it use projectile weapons when it clearly is intended to use lasers due to the ship bonus, and even most of those require heavy skills like awu 4-5 etc which makes it stupidly skill intensive for not much actual gain over several base t1 cruisers of the basic races
____________________________________________
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eddie valvetino
Caldari
ECP Rogues
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Posted - 2008.09.10 12:26:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Pan Fairchild
Originally by: Ekrid
Edited by: Ekrid on 10/09/2008 07:05:08
amarr navy slicer. 8 mil + 5000 LPs.
contracts. 30-50 mil.
worse in every way to a T2 frig.
I'm already flying T2 ships before having the faction to buy faction ships.
Meh, I always saw the faction gear as a roleplaying element. Make them better than T2 and everyone will fly it, make it cheaper then T2 and a gazillion noobs run around with poorly fitted 'elite' ships... either way neither one makes sense.
Although having said that whats up with the Dramiel? 25% dmg seems like a rather nice bonus... but a rifter can do more dps oh and run points and tank and well do just about everything the Dramiel does poorly.
hold on a second, a gazillion sounds like alot.. so you're saying there'll be lots of n00bs in expensive-ish ships flying around...
man that would be great... I get lots of points on my KB for faction kills
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.09.10 12:32:00 -
[36]
The Guristas ships are pretty terrible as well. Bonuses to guns and missiles, but with only a couple of turret slots? The Rattlesnake is effectively just a Raven. 
Give the Rattlesnake a 4-4 launcher/turret layout, and a 150-175 m3 drone bay, keeping the current bonuses. Now that's a true Caldari-Gallente hybrid. Skill-intensive, yes, but torps, neutrons and Ogres would make it a great gank BS.
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Malcanis
RuffRyders
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.09.10 12:35:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Gypsio III
The Guristas ships are pretty terrible as well. Bonuses to guns and missiles, but with only a couple of turret slots? The Rattlesnake is effectively just a Raven.
Give the Rattlesnake a 4-4 launcher/turret layout, and a 150-175 m3 drone bay, keeping the current bonuses. Now that's a true Caldari-Gallente hybrid. Skill-intensive, yes, but torps, neutrons and Ogres would make it a great gank BS.
Or just replace the railgun bonus with a 10% drone optimal range bonus, so it can use sentries.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
heheheh
PedoHamma
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Posted - 2008.09.10 12:44:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: heheheh
Still see no problem here.
maybe we can argue more after your forum ban ?
Are you pretending to be a moderator now?
I'm sure that ships of one race being totally better then their counterparts of another race is not a balance issue.
Nope im reporting you for calling me mentally handicapped.
I didnt say there wasnt a balance issue either, just no problem, much greater things need to be sorted out other than "Trophy ships" that hardly anyone uses anyway.
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Steve Hawkings
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Posted - 2008.09.10 12:45:00 -
[39]
Dont feed the trolls, afterall mission runners need soemthing to moan about lol.
Time is not Money and minerals i mine are free!! |
heheheh
PedoHamma
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Posted - 2008.09.10 12:49:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Steve Hawkings
Dont feed the trolls, afterall mission runners need soemthing to moan about lol.
Too true,
il leave these carebears to discuss amongst themselves now.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.09.10 13:02:00 -
[41]
Originally by: heheheh
Nope im reporting you for calling me mentally handicapped.
Well, if all you can respond with (to a post detailing what's wrong) is a once-liner saying 'there is no problem', you can expect that sort of comment.
Originally by: heheheh
I didnt say there wasnt a balance issue either, just no problem, much greater things need to be sorted out other than "Trophy ships" that hardly anyone uses anyway.
Faction ships (the ones which are not utter crap) are hardly uncommon. CCP has already fixed some races (Sansha, also all navy cruisers) and added new ships, so obviously they don't exactly think that spending some time to fix what's broken is pointless.
Originally by: Steve Hawkings
Dont feed the trolls, afterall mission runners need soemthing to moan about lol.
If you've never seen a Navy Mega or Machariel or Fleet Stabber in PvP, it doesn't make them carebear tools.
Of course, you probably just like trolling, so whatever.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Steve Hawkings
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Posted - 2008.09.10 13:05:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Steve Hawkings
Dont feed the trolls, afterall mission runners need soemthing to moan about lol.
If you've never seen a Navy Mega or Machariel or Fleet Stabber in PvP, it doesn't make them carebear tools.
Of course, you probably just like trolling, so whatever.
Well spotted,
I troll all the pointless threads.
Time is not Money and minerals i mine are free!! |
Ekrid
|
Posted - 2008.09.10 19:12:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Ruze
I wish the faction ships were more in line with named items. Meta 4, that kind of thing. Equal to T2 ships, in short.
And I wish there were a lot more faction ships.
Amarr Navy Slicer ... let it be on line with the Amarr interceptors, except without the extra T2 bonus. An expensive ship that is on par with T2, just like Meta 4 is on par with T2. T2 is better, due to skill bonuses, but on the base item, it's nearly the same.
We need more faction ships, too. I want an Amarr Navy Punisher, or a Navy Issue Armageddon. Ahh, those would be nice.
This post gets my personal approval.
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Ekrid
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Posted - 2008.09.10 19:13:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Ruze
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the ops original point is that if you compare faction items to named items and T2 items, you get an obviously 'superior' product over pretty much every T1 item, and on the base item, even over T2 (not including skill bonuses).
Ships should reflect that trend. Faction ships should be better than even their T2 counterparts, minus a bonus and correlating skills. Resistances, fitting, etc.
this post also gets my approval.
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Daelin Blackleaf
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Posted - 2008.09.10 19:21:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 10/09/2008 19:24:25
With thought being put into adding tech 2 faction items at the moment I really don't see the problem.
t1
faction t1
t2
faction t2
etc
More importantly prices are determined by the market, an item is worth what it's purchaser is willing to pay for it, and in this case the opportunity cost of spending those LP's on a different item must be taken into account (eg. if I can get at most 2500ISK/LP on an item then I'm going to want similar returns on other items I may trade my LP in for). If there is a problem with the price of faction battleships then it is probably tied to other items in the LP store and not the ships themselves.
-------------------------------
Hi-Sec: A place for the average player to make a safe income, not the place for the average player to make the best income. |
Ekrid
|
Posted - 2008.09.10 19:29:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 10/09/2008 19:24:25
With thought being put into adding tech 2 faction items at the moment I really don't see the problem.
t1
faction t1
t2
faction t2
etc
More importantly prices are determined by the market, an item is worth what it's purchaser is willing to pay for it, and in this case the opportunity cost of spending those LP's on a different item must be taken into account (eg. if I can get at most 2500ISK/LP on an item then I'm going to want similar returns on other items I may trade my LP in for). If there is a problem with the price of faction battleships then it is probably tied to other items in the LP store and not the ships themselves.
maybe you missed the part where faction modules > any T2 modules out there, and it costs you LP + isk, where if LP is considered how much you can get of it per mission, in comparison to how much isk you get per mission, you can figure the real price of LP in ISK, thus the ships are ridiculously more expensive and still suck.
sorry, but for modules:
T1
T2
faction.
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nails
Caldari
Ota Corps
|
Posted - 2008.09.10 19:30:00 -
[47]
mmm T2 faction. I have many billions saved up for one of those.
--------------
http://nails.otaku.jp/ota-corps/ |
Clair Bear
Coalition of Nations
Free Trade Zone.
|
Posted - 2008.09.10 19:48:00 -
[48]
What we need is *OFFICER* ships. Yeah, baby. Estemel's Modified Machariel BPC, 10 runs... Can I haz?
And when am I getting my faction and t2 cap ships anyway?
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Daelin Blackleaf
|
Posted - 2008.09.10 20:19:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Ekrid
maybe you missed the part where faction modules > any T2 modules out there, and it costs you LP + isk,
Maybe you missed your own thread title and original post. 
Items doesn't just mean modules, and even then your talking complete nonsense, the majority of t2 modules are superior to their lower meta counterparts.
There are exceptions, there are many of them, but that in no way makes t2 universally inferior to faction.
As for your point about LP: The ISK earned in missions is in no way constrained to being spent in the LP store, likewise the LP store does not only accept ISK earned in missions. While any consideration of trading in LP's must take into account the ISK price and the tags involved that does not mean LP do not have an independent value and that this value does not heavily impact other items in the store.
-------------------------------
Hi-Sec: A place for the average player to make a safe income, not the place for the average player to make the best income. |
Straight Chillen
Gallente
Solar Wind
|
Posted - 2008.09.10 20:22:00 -
[50]
i would gladly trade my ishtar for a guardian vexor.....
_
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Major PewPew
The Dark Horses
|
Posted - 2008.09.10 20:53:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Ekrid
Edited by: Ekrid on 10/09/2008 07:03:30
1. they cost a lot less than faction ships.
I just paid 290m for a Navy Mega in Jita last night...Compare this to a Kronos, at around 600m? I can faction fit my Navy mega for less than the initial cost of the Kronos, wtf are you talking about?
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Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
|
Posted - 2008.09.10 20:58:00 -
[52]
Supply meet demand......
working as intended
--
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Dreaded Chaos
|
Posted - 2008.09.10 21:26:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Gypsio III
The Guristas ships are pretty terrible as well. Bonuses to guns and missiles, but with only a couple of turret slots? The Rattlesnake is effectively just a Raven.
Give the Rattlesnake a 4-4 launcher/turret layout, and a 150-175 m3 drone bay, keeping the current bonuses. Now that's a true Caldari-Gallente hybrid. Skill-intensive, yes, but torps, neutrons and Ogres would make it a great gank BS.
You obviously have never flown a Rattlesnake before. It in no way compares to a Raven. It is far better. It's probably one of the best BS's in the game. Has descent fire power and an insane tank. You can even put a good passive setup on it if you don't have much isk and it will walk through any mission without blinking. But where it shines most is in pvp :) Don't f**k with a Rattlesnake in pvp.
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Kayo Recce
|
Posted - 2008.09.10 21:30:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Major PewPew
Originally by: Ekrid
Edited by: Ekrid on 10/09/2008 07:03:30
1. they cost a lot less than faction ships.
I just paid 290m for a Navy Mega in Jita last night...Compare this to a Kronos, at around 600m? I can faction fit my Navy mega for less than the initial cost of the Kronos, wtf are you talking about?
Wow, you must have cheap setup on that Navy Mega, mine has a 3 billion isk setup on it.
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Loofaro
Clown Punchers Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.09.10 21:34:00 -
[55]
Faction BS's are fine as they are, for PvP they are no doubt better than their tech2 counterparts and they are cheaper as well, so these might even need a nerf:P (no really black ops should get a boost, marauders are for pve so I dont care, but would be nice with a PvP orientated tech 2 BS that didn't suck).
Faction Cruisers are as other have said partially fine, fleet stabber, caracal etc.. but some of the pirate one's should get boosted to be on par with theese.
Faction Frigates suck pretty much, they look darn good but thats about it, and about the only use they have is to do cosmos missions while you got too low sp's to get an af, some faction warfare and stuff like that. Some of them aren't even better than regular t1's, I don't see how any of you can argue against them getting a boost.
That being said i want a navy griffin that jams as a kitsune and have drone bay of a griffin(if not a bit bigger:D) (willing to pay 50 mil a piece or more)
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Major PewPew
The Dark Horses
|
Posted - 2008.09.10 21:56:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Kayo Recce
Originally by: Major PewPew
Originally by: Ekrid
Edited by: Ekrid on 10/09/2008 07:03:30
1. they cost a lot less than faction ships.
I just paid 290m for a Navy Mega in Jita last night...Compare this to a Kronos, at around 600m? I can faction fit my Navy mega for less than the initial cost of the Kronos, wtf are you talking about?
Wow, you must have cheap setup on that Navy Mega, mine has a 3 billion isk setup on it.
Train T2 Neutrons, and you wont have to spend ur cash on officer blasters. And Amarr Navy EANMs are just fine for me. :) No need to kit it out like its a mothership. 300m for the ship and 200 or so on a few select faction mods makes it perfect for what i use it for.
Do me a favor when you lose yours, pass the KB link to me so i can laugh at you.
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Ekrid
|
Posted - 2008.09.10 22:04:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Ekrid on 10/09/2008 22:04:47
Originally by: Loofaro
Faction BS's are fine as they are, for PvP they are no doubt better than their tech2 counterparts and they are cheaper as well, so these might even need a nerf:P (no really black ops should get a boost, marauders are for pve so I dont care, but would be nice with a PvP orientated tech 2 BS that didn't suck).
Faction Cruisers are as other have said partially fine, fleet stabber, caracal etc.. but some of the pirate one's should get boosted to be on par with theese.
Faction Frigates suck pretty much, they look darn good but thats about it, and about the only use they have is to do cosmos missions while you got too low sp's to get an af, some faction warfare and stuff like that. Some of them aren't even better than regular t1's, I don't see how any of you can argue against them getting a boost.
That being said i want a navy griffin that jams as a kitsune and have drone bay of a griffin(if not a bit bigger:D) (willing to pay 50 mil a piece or more)
And here's the sad part about that. I was sitting in AFs within 1 month from character creation and at 3 mil SP in 2 months. Yes, I chose the soldier-soldier setup that gives you high tanking and turret abilities. in those months, I also got trained up to BCs and cross trained into caldari cruisers for the lulz of it. I also had amarr indy at L4, and the ability to train for inties if I wanted too, so you can imagine what my nav skills were like. this was back when I had 3 mil SP. I could also use every EW module with some competency, and energy emission weapons too, and remote en/rep/shield Xfer arrays as well. All within 2 months. contrast that to how much time of ACTUALLY PLAYING that it takes to grind the LP and ISK for faction ships (which still suck, like the slicer), or buying one for 50 mil, and you see how these things are worthless.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
|
Posted - 2008.09.10 22:14:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Dreaded Chaos
Originally by: Gypsio III
The Guristas ships are pretty terrible as well. Bonuses to guns and missiles, but with only a couple of turret slots? The Rattlesnake is effectively just a Raven.
Give the Rattlesnake a 4-4 launcher/turret layout, and a 150-175 m3 drone bay, keeping the current bonuses. Now that's a true Caldari-Gallente hybrid. Skill-intensive, yes, but torps, neutrons and Ogres would make it a great gank BS.
You obviously have never flown a Rattlesnake before. It in no way compares to a Raven. It is far better. It's probably one of the best BS's in the game. Has descent fire power and an insane tank. You can even put a good passive setup on it if you don't have much isk and it will walk through any mission without blinking. But where it shines most is in pvp :) Don't f**k with a Rattlesnake in pvp.
Nonsense. It's just a Raven with more EHP. Sure, you can put blasters/rails on, but those slots are better used for RRs/neuts. The extra lowslot isn't really much use for anything, unless you're armour-tanking, in which case your damage will be terrible.
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Kurt Ambrose
Caldari
Digital assassins
|
Posted - 2008.09.10 22:20:00 -
[59]
Boost pirate faction frigs/cruisers, thanks.
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Terianna Eri
Amarr
Scrutari
|
Posted - 2008.09.10 23:01:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Ruze
But ones like the Amarr Navy Slicer? It's a joke. Who in their right mind would choose to use it over an Executioner?
Navy slicer is actually much more like a punisher than an executioner.
And who would use it?
Well..
DOES THE PUNISHER/EXECUTIONER HAVE HEADLIGHTS? or like 300 engines?
no i thought not.
(yes it is a crap ship though :( )
__________________________________
Originally by: Arthur Frayn
How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
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Vabjekf
|
Posted - 2008.09.11 02:19:00 -
[61]
faction battleships are fine.
faction cruisers should not cost more than battlecruisers
faction frigates should probably be cheaper as well because they aren't really that useful.
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Solomon XI
Hoist The Colors.
|
Posted - 2008.09.11 02:46:00 -
[62]
I'm going to agree with the OP here to an extent ... why should a MILITARY ship (faction) be subpar to a CIVI ship (t1 or t2, regardless?)
In terms, I think faction ships need a significant boost. To at least match, if not exceed, if by only a limited fraction, their Tech-II counter-parts.
~Solo
Hoist The Colors. (CEO) |
Megan Maynard
Minmatar
17th Minmatar Tactical Wing
|
Posted - 2008.09.11 02:55:00 -
[63]
My fleet stabber works pretty good....
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Nikita Alterana
Gallente
The-Kissaki
|
Posted - 2008.09.11 03:49:00 -
[64]
/me looks over my Navy slicer, collecting dust in a darkened corner of my hanger, a white cloth d****d over its elegant curves and striking design.
I want this ship to be useful...
__________________________________________________
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Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
|
Posted - 2008.09.11 03:57:00 -
[65]
T1, named meta, T2, faction T1, Officer T1, T3, faction T2
What's so wrong with that? That's relative power, by the way.
Now we just need named ships and we'd be good, neh?
T2 is like, for more skill and less price, you can have damn good equipment.
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
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Nikita Alterana
Gallente
The-Kissaki
|
Posted - 2008.09.11 04:01:00 -
[66]
in my personal opinion, the faction ships should be on par with their T2 variants, for a bunch more money.
basically it gives you the option of waiting to get into a Zealot for instance, or paying an arm and a leg to get the same power out of a Navy Omen.
__________________________________________________
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Khorvek
Amarr
Hull Bound
|
Posted - 2008.09.11 04:44:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Solomon XI
I'm going to agree with the OP here to an extent ... why should a MILITARY ship (faction) be subpar to a CIVI ship (t1 or t2, regardless?)
In terms, I think faction ships need a significant boost. To at least match, if not exceed, if by only a limited fraction, their Tech-II counter-parts.
QFTAJ.
Originally by: rValdez5987
the OP is just mad that his vagabond cant run around like he just picked up the gold star in mario brothers anymore.
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Khwalik
Ghetto Kings
|
Posted - 2008.09.11 05:31:00 -
[68]
Just my two isk worth...I own all the faction frigs, and basically they all suck, but I like them regardless. It'd be cool to see dev's really make some improvements to frigate..and I strongly encourage starting with AF's well before faction stuff...but we also have other classes of ships that need addressing. At least we got another faction cruiser intriduced with the war patch....
To bring up another subject how many of you have trained ewar frigs?...undoubtedly the most worthless introduction of late imo.
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Ekrid
|
Posted - 2008.09.11 07:06:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Ekrid on 11/09/2008 07:06:35
Originally by: Khwalik
Just my two isk worth...I own all the faction frigs, and basically they all suck, but I like them regardless. It'd be cool to see dev's really make some improvements to frigate..and I strongly encourage starting with AF's well before faction stuff...but we also have other classes of ships that need addressing. At least we got another faction cruiser intriduced with the war patch....
To bring up another subject how many of you have trained ewar frigs?...undoubtedly the most worthless introduction of late imo.
Hey now, I trained up EA frigs (T2 EW), and they kick a lot of ass in frigate combat, like they should. Just because the huge disparity between systems like cap, small vamps, small neuts, small remote reps, etc, and their medium counterparts that go on cruisers and can disable a frigate in a single hit doesnt mean they're worthless. It just means that you don't take them to any meaningful fight.
Actually, it all really works like this.
Positive percentages on small numbers receive less overall benefit than on large numbers.
Negative percentages on large numbers receive much more reduction than small numbers.
its why if you fly frigs you really should be using speed implants, rigs, etc. its the only thing they really have going for them. its also why you don't see regenerative plating on ships smaller than BSes.
Basically, way back when they doubled the HP of all ships, the disparity grew so much that it put frigs out of business. IMO, all other classes but frigs should now be nerfed by 25% of their max health.
or they could raise the capacitor limits of frigs by 25%, and boost the energy emission modules by 25%.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
|
Posted - 2008.09.11 07:36:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 11/09/2008 07:36:54
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
t1
faction t1
t2
faction t2
etc
Not how it really works - faction is higher meta then T2 and virtually always better. Ships are the exception (but that's fine really).
Originally by: Megan Maynard
My fleet stabber works pretty good....
Cynabal doesn't  It didn't get any loving for quite a while, while the Fleet Stabber got quite alot of love recently.
I tend to hate the Stabber hull so meh ;(
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
|
Posted - 2008.09.11 07:38:00 -
[71]
Faction ships should not be better than T2 modules because their price is not always higher like they are with T2 modules.
If you want faction ships to be better than T2 ships, then get ready for a HUGE price increase, like 10 times more expensive.
There was a few faction ships that were rebalanced by the devs 6-12 months ago and they didn't seem to think there was a major problem with the faction ships effectiveness and pricing and I don't see one either.
--
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
|
Posted - 2008.09.11 07:44:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Vaal Erit
There was a few faction ships that were rebalanced by the devs 6-12 months ago and they didn't seem to think there was a major problem with the faction ships effectiveness and pricing and I don't see one either.
Well, yes, this needs to happen to the rest of the ships. Faction navy cruisers and Sansha ships got rebalanced, all the other pirate factions are in need of loving.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Major PewPew
The Dark Horses
|
Posted - 2008.09.11 13:15:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Kurt Ambrose
Boost pirate faction frigs/cruisers, thanks.
see: Phantasm
nuff said
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
|
Posted - 2008.09.11 13:17:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 11/09/2008 13:17:18
Originally by: Major PewPew
Originally by: Kurt Ambrose
Boost pirate faction frigs/cruisers, thanks.
see: Phantasm
nuff said
Yep, I want the other pirate faction cruisers playing in that league ;)
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Tippia
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.09.11 14:08:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Tippia on 11/09/2008 14:08:58
Originally by: Solomon XI
I'm going to agree with the OP here to an extent ... why should a MILITARY ship (faction) be subpar to a CIVI ship (t1 or t2, regardless?)
Civilian battleship? How does that work? 
Also, look at it the other way: why could a government-built (you know, elephant = gov-spec mouse), tax-funded (= mismanaged) ship ever be better than one built for a competetive market? 
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Ekrid
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Posted - 2008.09.11 20:12:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Ekrid on 11/09/2008 20:13:02
Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 11/09/2008 14:08:58
Originally by: Solomon XI
I'm going to agree with the OP here to an extent ... why should a MILITARY ship (faction) be subpar to a CIVI ship (t1 or t2, regardless?)
Civilian battleship? How does that work?
Also, look at it the other way: why could a government-built (you know, elephant = gov-spec mouse), tax-funded (= mismanaged) ship ever be better than one built for a competetive market?
1. these are market available ships. You don't see the megacomputers and high tech weapons n armor that real gov's have on the public market do you? They have ray guns, they have plasma guns (think melt rocks in space), just because you live under a rock doesn't mean things don't exist.
2. Maybe, unlike SOME current governments, the reason the factions works so well is because it has intelligent management? Look how far the amarr empire is.
Think of it this way. Lets take a look at U.S.' current situation. people keep screaming, and demands keep going for more armor, and its eventually getting there. took 7 years right?
Well, amarr has been in a state of war/tension between minnies and galls for much much longer. I'm certain that the populations of opposing factions are more than willing to pay whatever expense is necessary, because these three governments that are in this state represent polar opposite ideas, and thats what is the scariest for a population.
to sum up, WTF are you comparing a game to real world events? Military always has the most high tech equipment not available to real life merc groups anyway.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.09.11 20:28:00 -
[77]
Short version:
* faction frigates and cruiser are too expensive in LP shops and/or not significantly better than the T1 counterparts
* faction battleships are too cheap in the LP shops and/or T2 battleships too crappy compared to the faction counterparts
/thread
_
SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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Kurt Ambrose
Caldari
Digital assassins
|
Posted - 2008.09.11 20:31:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Major PewPew
Originally by: Kurt Ambrose
Boost pirate faction frigs/cruisers, thanks.
see: Phantasm
nuff said
So the faction frigs and cruisers dont need a boost because ONE of them works?
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SoftRevolution
|
Posted - 2008.09.11 20:34:00 -
[79]
In the fluff text Capsuleers are as if not more powerful than the state.
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Ekrid
|
Posted - 2008.09.11 20:37:00 -
[80]
Originally by: SoftRevolution
In the fluff text Capsuleers are as if not more powerful than the state.
oh, so thats why the "state" builds military ships out of CNRs and such? because they aren't piloted by capsuleers amirite?
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insidion
Caldari
Last of the Technocracy
Atrocitas
|
Posted - 2008.09.11 20:37:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Akita T
Short version:
* faction frigates and cruiser are too expensive in LP shops and/or not significantly better than the T1 counterparts
* faction battleships are too cheap in the LP shops and/or T2 battleships too crappy compared to the faction counterparts
/thread
Faction BS are not cheap. Sure, some of them are 'cheap' in terms of isk right now, but 600k LP+the BS take a fair amount of work for the average person who is not an ISK farmer.
In general faction ships, regardless of class, are WAAAAAY too 'expensive' for what they are. There are some exceptions to that like a 300m navy mega (thanks to farmers, which has to stop) and a ship that's actually worth it like a nightmare (the only t1 BS that's technically a marauder).
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NeoShocker
Caldari
Foundation
Sons of Tangra
|
Posted - 2008.09.11 21:45:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Ekrid
Edited by: Ekrid on 10/09/2008 07:03:30
1. they cost a lot less than faction ships.
2. you grind a lot less to get them.
3. their stats, bonuses, fittings, etc, are also better than faction.
4. wtf?
for proof, check the amarr navy slicer. I'm thinking the faction run militaries should always have the best stuff. I think that would make the cost worth it. instead of T2, you have a faction ship that you use to fight in, if you could afford it. Would make sense.
Uhm, usually faction ships are for people with alot of money and most don't even use them while few are just "collection ships" (other than vindicator, CNR to name a few).
Tho', some of the ships requiring some buffs, especially faction frigates. The Caldari Navy Hookbill (worm is another) is VERY hard to fit. Even if you got all level V skills to use t2 mods. :( I've yet to actually try the firetail or comet and other pirate faction ships besides worm.
But for the most part, I think I read somewhere that CCP says that faction ships is GENERALLY better than t1, but not as good as t2 and they're not "really" suppose to be as good or better as the tech 2 variants.
-----------------------------------
Peace through power! |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.09.12 00:56:00 -
[83]
Originally by: insidion
Originally by: Akita T
Short version:
* faction frigates and cruiser are too expensive in LP shops and/or not significantly better than the T1 counterparts
* faction battleships are too cheap in the LP shops and/or T2 battleships too crappy compared to the faction counterparts
Faction BS are not cheap. Sure, some of them are 'cheap' in terms of isk right now, but 600k LP+the BS take a fair amount of work for the average person who is not an ISK farmer.
FRIGATES: T1 0.002-0.3 mil, faction 30-50 mil, T2 5-20 mil
CRUISERS: T1 3-8 mil, faction 60-100 mil, T2 60-120 mil
BATTLESHIPS : T1 60-150 mil, faction 300-450 mil, T2 650-750 mil
That's what I meant.
_
SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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Ekrid
|
Posted - 2008.09.12 01:17:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Ekrid on 12/09/2008 01:22:27
Originally by: NeoShocker
Originally by: Ekrid
Edited by: Ekrid on 10/09/2008 07:03:30
1. they cost a lot less than faction ships.
2. you grind a lot less to get them.
3. their stats, bonuses, fittings, etc, are also better than faction.
4. wtf?
for proof, check the amarr navy slicer. I'm thinking the faction run militaries should always have the best stuff. I think that would make the cost worth it. instead of T2, you have a faction ship that you use to fight in, if you could afford it. Would make sense.
Uhm, usually faction ships are for people with alot of money and most don't even use them while few are just "collection ships" (other than vindicator, CNR to name a few).
Tho', some of the ships requiring some buffs, especially faction frigates. The Caldari Navy Hookbill (worm is another) is VERY hard to fit. Even if you got all level V skills to use t2 mods. :( I've yet to actually try the firetail or comet and other pirate faction ships besides worm.
But for the most part, I think I read somewhere that CCP says that faction ships is GENERALLY better than t1, but not as good as t2 and they're not "really" suppose to be as good or better as the tech 2 variants.
[Sarcasm] Okay, I think I see what you're getting at (p.s. link that "somewhere" or it didn't happen), So what you're basically saying is that Nightmares and Phantasms are TOO good, because these ships have same bonuses as T2, making them just as powerful, while all the other ships have crap. So, we should nerf these ships to fit your view of how it should work, since obviously CCP put all these faction ships in the game to NOT really work at all but just sit there useless, cause that's worthwhile coding, right? [/Sarcasm]
http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Worm
Quote:
Bonuses
Special Ability: 50% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile velocity
Caldari Frigate Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile kinetic damage per level
Gallente Frigate Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage per level.
Nightmare Sansha
Quote:
* 100% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage
Amarr Battleship Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Energy Turret tracking per level Caldari Battleship Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage per level
Phantasm Sansha
Quote:
Special Ability:
* 100% bonus to Medium Energy Turret damage
Amarr Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Energy Turret tracking per level Caldari Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Energy Turret damage per level
lets count those bonuses shall we? 1, 2, 3? Wow, thats just like a T2 ship! they also all have more tank (armor,shield,hull) than any T1.
obviously CCP had better nerf these ships to make them in line with ships like this:
AN Slicer
Quote:
Amarr Frigate skill bonus: -10% to Small Energy Turret capacitor use, +5% to Small Energy Turret damage / level.
Ohh, so powerful.
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Vaal Erit
There was a few faction ships that were rebalanced by the devs 6-12 months ago and they didn't seem to think there was a major problem with the faction ships effectiveness and pricing and I don't see one either.
Well, yes, this needs to happen to the rest of the ships. Faction navy cruisers and Sansha ships got rebalanced, all the other pirate factions are in need of loving.
Agreed.
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Herateis
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Posted - 2008.09.12 01:18:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Terianna Eri
Originally by: Ruze
But ones like the Amarr Navy Slicer? It's a joke. Who in their right mind would choose to use it over an Executioner?
Navy slicer is actually much more like a punisher than an executioner.
And who would use it?
Well..
DOES THE PUNISHER/EXECUTIONER HAVE HEADLIGHTS? or like 300 engines?
no i thought not.
(yes it is a crap ship though :( )
its got punisher speed and armor, with executioner bonuses.
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Khorvek
Amarr
Hull Bound
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Posted - 2008.09.12 01:45:00 -
[86]
can I have your stuff?
Originally by: rValdez5987
the OP is just mad that his vagabond cant run around like he just picked up the gold star in mario brothers anymore.
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NeoShocker
Caldari
Foundation
Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2008.09.12 02:45:00 -
[87]
Edited by: NeoShocker on 12/09/2008 02:45:44
Ekrid, did you even fly any of those ships in question? I'm only voicing what I experienced and told of. I can only voice my opinion in 3 faction frigates I flew before, I never own a cruiser or bs size faction ships.
All I know is that Hookbill and worm needs some sort of buffing CPU/Grid wise and the firetail is fine. :)
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Peace through power! |
Ekrid
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Posted - 2008.09.12 02:54:00 -
[88]
Originally by: NeoShocker
Edited by: NeoShocker on 12/09/2008 02:45:44
Ekrid, did you even fly any of those ships in question? I'm only voicing what I experienced and told of. I can only voice my opinion in 3 faction frigates I flew before, I never own a cruiser or bs size faction ships.
All I know is that Hookbill and worm needs some sort of buffing CPU/Grid wise and the firetail is fine. :)
so you voiced your opinion on ignorance and expect me take you seriously?
compare the phant and night's 100% bonus to marauders.
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