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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Procion
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Posted - 2004.06.16 08:46:00 -
[31]
just noticed something if you fly away/towards your target with MWD on you miss all the time even from 30+ km
guess thats what u guys are doing?
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XRay Blue
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Posted - 2004.06.16 09:45:00 -
[32]
 Quote:
u say at ur optimal range, u¦ll be able to hit the target... why u don¦t keep the optimal range?
Uhm... 
Because your target is flying towards you and faster than you ? You know, most ships are moving, not only yours.
Because it is faster than you because you¦re not longer an MWD because it¦s now nerfed^2 ?
Because you are warping directly into a swarms of NPC¦s ?
Because you are fighting against different targets in different directions and distances ? |
XRay Blue
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Posted - 2004.06.16 09:46:00 -
[33]
I used 3 Large Neutron Cannons and 3 425mm both with Antimatter on my Megathron and fired parallel on frigate NPCs about 15 km away. Neutrons on one target, 425mm on another target at same range.
Usually the 425mm kill their target first before the Neutrons at that range, with 1-3 shots.
Since yesterday the 425mm do almost hit nothing (in this scenario I need about 30 shots with my 425mm to maybe destroy the frigate) in that case BUT my Large Neutrons hit almost the same as they did before the patch and kill the frigates easily.
That means that I still can kill frigates with large guns without problems. But the weapons become now VERY bad - almost useless - when they are below their optimal range. So the problerm is not if you are using weapon types suitable for the ship size of your opponent but if you are below or over your optimal range. |
Bellicose
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Posted - 2004.06.16 09:52:00 -
[34]
iam flying Tempest with 6x 800mm right now tech2 tracking and damagemod also tech2 iam ripping apart cruisers at 15-35km even my optimal range is 7.7km if they get close where iam supossed to hit em i cant hit a thing
Who needs a shovel when you have a nice big cannon?
KittenArmy
capn' crimson |
Aelita
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Posted - 2004.06.16 10:55:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Aelita on 16/06/2004 10:59:17
Guys! 1st I see only few of you did really read dev b-log. Link here
Formula for counting accuracy falloff (AF) and optimal range (OR) is completely rewerted. Now guns are able hit far than AF + OR and do realy poor under OR quick. Especially this is fact for guns like Railguns where OR is above AF. You should study graphs here.
And everyone must count that guns have now signature radius (SR) too. Like all large guns have 400. My tempest have SR 360 without MWD on that mean theoreticaly at OR you have chance hit me for 360/400 = 90% chance or 90% damage as I see CCP did implement both in formula so if you hit with 90% probability your damage will be 90% of it. So if you trying hit frigate you have maximal chance to 100/400 = 25%.
But that's without appling hit/ratio curve and not counting transversal velocity. When you moving your ship your chance to hit it's depend directly on tracking speed of guns and rails have worst tracking from all guns, same for artillery. So actually now large railguns/artillery are only for BS vs BS stationery shooting range. Don't try use these long range guns on small moving targets from close range. It works as it's designed. Go and check your tracking specs for guns. Without significant boost to tracking speed you can use these guns only from great distance. Thanks to new formula 425mm rail guns can hit pretty well with AM from 80km now! That's bonus what you never had before patch! Use your brain and do some serious reading! Not whine.
FYI: if you look harder and start playing with other guns you will find soon there is plenty of guns to use with best result for your strategy. If you wanna do range shooting you have guns with pretty damage output. If you want do some close combat yes there is another set of guns to use. Even for mid to close range we have setup now. It's not about use single gun for everything that way I like to see new changes we shall use all guns in game not only tach/425mm/1400mm combo. Really stop it this discusion is made by lazy people who never invest time to do serious study in guns!
Edit: Spelling and missing words
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Lentia
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Posted - 2004.06.16 16:23:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Aelita
Edited by: Aelita on 16/06/2004 10:59:17
Guys! 1st I see only few of you did really read dev b-log. Link here
Formula for counting accuracy falloff (AF) and optimal range (OR) is completely rewerted. Now guns are able hit far than AF + OR and do realy poor under OR quick. Especially this is fact for guns like Railguns where OR is above AF. You should study graphs here.
And everyone must count that guns have now signature radius (SR) too. Like all large guns have 400. My tempest have SR 360 without MWD on that mean theoreticaly at OR you have chance hit me for 360/400 = 90% chance or 90% damage as I see CCP did implement both in formula so if you hit with 90% probability your damage will be 90% of it. So if you trying hit frigate you have maximal chance to 100/400 = 25%.
But that's without appling hit/ratio curve and not counting transversal velocity. When you moving your ship your chance to hit it's depend directly on tracking speed of guns and rails have worst tracking from all guns, same for artillery. So actually now large railguns/artillery are only for BS vs BS stationery shooting range. Don't try use these long range guns on small moving targets from close range. It works as it's designed. Go and check your tracking specs for guns. Without significant boost to tracking speed you can use these guns only from great distance. Thanks to new formula 425mm rail guns can hit pretty well with AM from 80km now! That's bonus what you never had before patch! Use your brain and do some serious reading! Not whine.
FYI: if you look harder and start playing with other guns you will find soon there is plenty of guns to use with best result for your strategy. If you wanna do range shooting you have guns with pretty damage output. If you want do some close combat yes there is another set of guns to use. Even for mid to close range we have setup now. It's not about use single gun for everything that way I like to see new changes we shall use all guns in game not only tach/425mm/1400mm combo. Really stop it this discusion is made by lazy people who never invest time to do serious study in guns!
Edit: Spelling and missing words
Well actually Aelita, YOURE WRONG!. And youre quite pompous about it. Isnt it nice to tell everyone that they are idiots when in fact if you had a brain you would clearly see that damage with hybrids (rails or blasters) is INCREASING the farther away you move from your optimal range and then reverses back to zero after you hit your falloff. In other words, if u had a brain, this would tell you that the damage/fall off curve is actually INVERTED . So this is a major screwup on the part of CCP. How bout instead of you playing like youre really smart just STFU?
Lentia
Military Officer
http://www.staf.online-guild.com/ |
MadGaz
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Posted - 2004.06.16 17:05:00 -
[37]
Lentia rules 
------------------------------------------
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Aelita
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Posted - 2004.06.16 17:56:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Lentia
Well actually Aelita, YOURE WRONG!. And youre quite pompous about it. Isnt it nice to tell everyone that they are idiots when in fact if you had a brain you would clearly see that damage with hybrids (rails or blasters) is INCREASING the farther away you move from your optimal range and then reverses back to zero after you hit your falloff. In other words, if u had a brain, this would tell you that the damage/fall off curve is actually INVERTED. So this is a major screwup on the part of CCP. How bout instead of you playing like youre really smart just STFU?
Well actually Lentia, YOURE WRONG! Hehe STFU 1st may be I wasn't clear so, but go out and test it! Guns onder OR stop hitting by curve shown on b-log. That mean not anymore 50% damage even target was at point of blank.
Curve fall for range above OR to Accuraccy fall off is far slower than pre patch. You should really study these things before calling me idiot. I wasn't ofensive against anyone I just told what I'd test past few weeks on Chaos and what is now in game. Trust me it works pretty well, just adapt guns did change and no one is screwed. I just told that guys trying use guns for another range than they actually trying to hit target. Don't expect from long range weapons hit something at zaro distance.
May be now it's more clear. So curve is inverted if you look at it. Before it was flat when you were between zero distance and OR.
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Techtv
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Posted - 2004.06.16 18:22:00 -
[39]
Ok since you guys are acting all smart expain this to me. If a BS is shooting another BS and they are both stopped and they are at their exact optimal range. Why is the 425 missing?
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Lentia
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Posted - 2004.06.16 18:36:00 -
[40]
Maybe Im not communicating effectively....
A blaster has a range of 5km lets say. Now have a m8 stay in one spot 5km away. You will not hit him that well or that often. Now, move fatrther away from your target. LO AND BEHOLD! Now you are doing more hits and greater damage. AND WOW! at the 15KM falloff you are now doing 800hp wrecking shots that you should have been doing at your optimal range. Then go 1 more KM (past your falloff) and the damage and hits drop to zero again. I did try it. Thats what happened. Logical conclusion: CCP inverted falloff accuracy/damage when patching to TQ.
Until it gets fixed, my advice to all those hybrid users for NPC hunting is to use thorium ammo and mount 1-2 blaster cannons and blast away comfortably at 10-15 km and do wrecking shots normally reseved for <5m. 425's with thorium will be hitting gr8 at 80 km (depending on skills and mods) and will diminish as it approaches your optimal range. But be prepared to readjust once this is fixed.
Lentia
Military Officer
http://www.staf.online-guild.com/ |
Drogos
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Posted - 2004.06.16 21:08:00 -
[41]
Some rather extensive field testing by myself and corpmates completely validates Lentia's conclusions.
More testing tonight... we need hard data and some scientific method.
CCP? Any comments?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Making no mistakes is what establishes the certainty of victory, for it means conquering an enemy that is already defeated.
-Sun Tzu |
Luc Boye
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Posted - 2004.06.16 22:48:00 -
[42]
This looks like another patch I can sit out. Oh, well no biggie, it's Euro 2004 anyway.
--
2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage. |
Richard Gee
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Posted - 2004.06.17 00:44:00 -
[43]
Just a comment, isn't "Optimal" range where you're supposed to hit the most? I mean isn't that the deffinition of the word "Optimal?"
I've been using missles since the patch so I have no comments on the Hybrids. (I'm hoping it gets all worked out in a week when I get my Scorp)
Never forget, a Jack-of-all-trades is master of none. |
Techtv
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Posted - 2004.06.17 01:36:00 -
[44]
I have been testing the 250mm railguns and they work fine. Actually better because they they have a smooth transition from your optimal range to far range. And falloff is not a huge drop just gets worse and worse.
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Drogos
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Posted - 2004.06.17 16:19:00 -
[45]
Still awaiting CCP acknowledgement...
Kieron, are the devs aware of this issue? Do they recognize that it's an issue?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Making no mistakes is what establishes the certainty of victory, for it means conquering an enemy that is already defeated.
-Sun Tzu |
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