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1400mm and 1200mm useless now??

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Deadzone	Posted - 2004.06.16 00:11:00 - [1] I logged in to test how everything acted now, and may I saw I am throughly disgusted with how CPP has nerfed the large projectile turrets. I could NOT hit a top of the line cruiser with either gun but for maybe THREE times, EVEN with a tracking computer!!!! What in the hell is CCP thinking? Even against a BS, the dmg being hit by these guns in OPT range was HALF of pre-patch!!! HALF!!! I would really like to know HOW CCP expects us to do anything with these guns now?!? Vice-Admiral Executive Commanding Officer Military Command Hadead Drive Yards
Xavier Cardde	Posted - 2004.06.16 00:12:00 - [2] have you tried any others? From what im seeing nobody can hit anything.
Tank CEO	Posted - 2004.06.16 00:16:00 - [3] Gawd, all you have to freakin do is fit on a weapon tracking enhancer!!!! ---
Mr nStuff	Posted - 2004.06.16 00:22:00 - [4] You need to equip turrets with smaller Signature Resolutions if you want to hit smaller ships at closer ranges. Just figure out what the range is when your large turrets begin to fail with cruisers. Then have some medium turrets ready to take over from there at optimum range. If you're solo.. Do the same thing.. Add a 280mm Howitzer or two. So you can combat the frigates when they are too close to hit with medium turrets. Originally by: Tank CEO Gawd, all you have to freakin do is fit on a weapon tracking enhancer!!!! This isn't about tracking. It's about signature radius and signature resolution. 5 R&D Agents, 10months, Zero BPO Offers.. Onboard navigational [Planetary Avoidance] computer. My account will be suspended at the end of the current play period. Expires on 19. September 2004
Proconsul Para	Posted - 2004.06.16 00:25:00 - [5] Edited by: Proconsul Para on 16/06/2004 00:27:35 Tempest tested on a giant can: 100 km away = optimum (67km with nuclear) + falloff (35km) Out of 18 shots, 11 were misses and glance-offs, 5 scratches (65-80), 1 hit (120) and 1 critical (430) Both my ship and the target were sitting immobile, lol. So tracking has nothing to do with it. It's somewhere in the maths. . Shield Inversion works best at lighting cigarettes in windy weather.
Bohr	Posted - 2004.06.16 00:38:00 - [6] Originally by: Proconsul Para Edited by: Proconsul Para on 16/06/2004 00:27:35 Tempest tested on a giant can: 100 km away = optimum (67km with nuclear) + falloff (35km) Out of 18 shots, 11 were misses and glance-offs, 5 scratches (65-80), 1 hit (120) and 1 critical (430) Both my ship and the target were sitting immobile, lol. So tracking has nothing to do with it. It's somewhere in the maths. . A scratch from my 720mm scouts hit for 65.some. Something is definately wrong. Unless you're using 720mm scouts too.
Managalar	Posted - 2004.06.16 00:41:00 - [7] I tired my dual 650s, my 800s, and my 1400s with an optical tracking computer...I saw someone suggest using 3 tracking computers, and I might when I get home from work. =======Abaddon======= =======Abaddon=======
Caanan	Posted - 2004.06.16 00:55:00 - [8] so should I fit a tracking computer? my 250mms on my thorax would miss 7 out of 8 shots, it was really sad
Sochin	Posted - 2004.06.16 01:59:00 - [9] After quite a bit of experimenting i've managed to get 1400s to hit for very respectable damage. Tracking mods are the key. Nemo me impune lacessit
Doppleganger	Posted - 2004.06.16 02:14:00 - [10] Havent tried my 1400mms yet but was geting some middle of the road hits with 1200mms using 2 optical tracking comps. Before this patch I could never see any help from tracking comps but now they are pretty much a must have. Guess I will look into armor tanking and filling mid slots with tracking comps.

Caanan	Posted - 2004.06.16 02:20:00 - [11] after some testing on rats I found that if you are a little bit further than optimal range you can actually hit the target havent tried tracking mods yet
Fuujin	Posted - 2004.06.16 02:23:00 - [12] It shouldn't be at the point where you actually need several of those to even hit a target though. Tracking computers should be there to imrpove your accuracy, not to actually make the guns useable. _______________ The sword has to be more than a simple weapon; it has to be an answer to life's questions
Mr nStuff	Posted - 2004.06.16 02:31:00 - [13] If you are trying to hit a frigate at 15km with a 1400mm for instance. Sorry but 8 tracking mods wont even help you. Bring some friend or equip some smaller turrets. 5 R&D Agents, 10months, Zero BPO Offers.. Onboard navigational [Planetary Avoidance] computer. My account will be suspended at the end of the current play period. Expires on 19. September 2004
TerminusX	Posted - 2004.06.16 02:33:00 - [14] Why such a sever swing in balancing? A cruiser is NOT a small target, and I could not hit one at almost any range moving 200 m/s! That is ridiculous! You shouldnt have to mount 5 tracking computers to hit things....it takes the diversity/ fun of modules out of the game. This patch is ridiculous...CCP please read this and roll back this patch. There are way too many problems with it. Divine Retribution - My name is TerminusX, prepare to die.
Fuujin	Posted - 2004.06.16 02:35:00 - [15] People need to stop suggesting rollbacks. If there is some problem with it then they can fix it....not roll it back. _______________ The sword has to be more than a simple weapon; it has to be an answer to life's questions
mOULf	Posted - 2004.06.16 02:53:00 - [16] signed.
Gariuys	Posted - 2004.06.16 06:22:00 - [17] Or perhaps one should not be using the worst tracking long range battleship turret of any type to hit small fast moving targets at short range. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Chepe Nolon	Posted - 2004.06.16 06:30:00 - [18] I agree that tracking a orbiting frigate at 5-10km should be difficult->impossible with large long range guns. But at optimal range, getting the cruisers chasing you, you should be able to hit more than once in a lifetime. Even though they have evasive manuvering V. From my point of view, battleships are usefull for one combat role until shiva comes out, and that is tanks and stripminers. (I haven't checked if I still can fit 7 lasers on my mega or 8 on my apoc though). I guess the bigger guns are needed when player owned structures comes into game. Both attacking and defending the structure. If you can hit it with a large gun that is. We don't know fer sure, do we? But the strange thing is that I sometimes hit frigates like pre-patch (always hit) at much closer range than I don't hit cruisers. With large guns. And serpentis drug barons dies like pre-patch both on close range and longe range with the same gun and ammo. Others needs about 6x10+ rounds of am L to be wasted. I'll be going to basecamp to pick up my named 250mm's and see if that is better. And even try out dual 250s. I hope some of them will still be viable in combat.
Gariuys	Posted - 2004.06.16 06:44:00 - [19] Short range turrets with longish range ammo, tracking enhancer and tracking comp, webber, and the correct heavy drones. That still means that once cruisers and frigates especially get into orbit around you you will have a hard time hitting them (which is quite alright in my book ) but you can, with a setup like that, still take em out at reasonably short ranges. If you're intend on fighting with long range turrets use them for what they're for, long range. Throwing the shortest range ammo in a long range turret and then complaining you can't hit at 20-30km is a bit well messed up really. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
TGIF	Posted - 2004.06.16 07:19:00 - [20] A bonus on a tracking of nothing, is still nothing. - - - Absinthe Fueled

Sparc	Posted - 2004.06.16 07:29:00 - [21] My turrets (as predicted in the pre-patch comments) appear to be completely useless. Add to that it took something like 60-70 heavy missiles to bring down one level 3 arch angel because they were hitting for 77 dmg (that's widowmakers and thunders) and I feel like my Rupture is a pre-patch Rifter (range and damage). Tbh, Minmatar cruisers positively suck now!
Xerxes Athos	Posted - 2004.06.16 07:47:00 - [22] Idd, The Damage is very Bad..and cant hit a thing with my 1400mm, CCP Needs to fix this real quick.
Kildarin Farushna	Posted - 2004.06.16 07:53:00 - [23] Originally by: Tank CEO Gawd, all you have to freakin do is fit on a weapon tracking enhancer!!!! agreed ____ ->Lawless<- >>>New Formula<<< >>In your local 0.4 system soon<<
Acix	Posted - 2004.06.16 08:03:00 - [24] I tried many setups including adding 2 tech 2 tracking computers in the mid slots. Still couldn't hit a mega at optimal range moving at 50m/s. Even sitting still 3/4 are misses.
Acix	Posted - 2004.06.16 08:03:00 - [25] Edited by: Acix on 16/06/2004 08:04:49
dabster	Posted - 2004.06.16 08:13:00 - [26] I did 'ok' at around optimal range with my 1400's when i was shooting a BS. Against Cruisers..50/50 miss/hit..or slightly better perhaps.. But on Frigs..lol..I was using 3 different types of ammo..was between optimal and 50% above..did not hit a single shot out of 40 Better start fitting both S and M guns in addition to L ones..lol t'is fkd up ___________________________ Chicks dig Brutor's
Gariuys	Posted - 2004.06.16 08:17:00 - [27] Originally by: dabster I did 'ok' at around optimal range with my 1400's when i was shooting a BS. Against Cruisers..50/50 miss/hit..or slightly better perhaps.. But on Frigs..lol..I was using 3 different types of ammo..was between optimal and 50% above..did not hit a single shot out of 40 Better start fitting both S and M guns in addition to L ones..lol t'is fkd up That's exactly what should be happening and you say it's fkd up, it is NOT it's working exactly as intended. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Torvus Jay	Posted - 2004.06.16 08:54:00 - [28] I have not been experiencing any of the problems ppl are listing here. Npc cruisers and frigates are going down very easily with my hybrids at optimal beyond optimal and under optimal. This is with one tracking enhancer and one mag stabilizer. Was taking down frigate rats at 10km with 425s loaded with iridium in one volley almost everytime. ______________ Aim careful, and look the devil in the eye.
Randuin MaraL	Posted - 2004.06.16 08:59:00 - [29] I did only need to fit better launchers; short range projectile turrets did even 10%-20% more damage against NPC frigates and cruisers within falloff range. ____________________________________________________ Never be in the company of anyone with whom you would not want to die. MEDUSA veteran, Khumaak Award winner
Xelios	Posted - 2004.06.16 09:11:00 - [30] At least the damage messages are being honest for you. I was shooting an Impaler with 6 mega beams earlier, I was hitting him just fine until I got to his hull, then suddenly all I get is 2004.06.16 08:31:54combatYour Mega Beam Laser I is well aimed at Arch Angel Impaler, inflicting 0.0 damage. Your Mega Beam Laser I is well aimed at Arch Angel Impaler, inflicting 0.0 damage. Are these things immune to EM and Thermal now or is this some kind of bug? Happens with every Impaler I've shot, and only once I damage him to hull. Also happens regardless of range or anything else.

Gundog Prime	Posted - 2004.06.16 09:32:00 - [31] Lrage Projectiles damage ratio's compared to other Large gunz were a bit over-amped, so CCP jut made Large Proj mainly an anti-BS weapon.... Dunno if the changes need a little tweaking but if you can still hit BS's at decent range why not just build your skills in smaller weapons and carry lighter gunz for lighter targets??? -------------------------------------------------------------- [email protected] - BEWARE THE CHEAP PAINT SIG -- Joshua Calvert, the true gamer's gamer
Harcole	Posted - 2004.06.16 09:49:00 - [32] I went out with my 1400mm's last night, with Phased Plasma ammo at 60km+ I can deal around 200 damage, this is with a Gyrostab 2 only. I was hitting frigates right upto Battleships at this range. Frigates stopped taking damage around the 40km mark, crusiers around 30km and BS's can't be hit somewhere starting closer than 15km. Damage does decrease as you get closer to those ranges and this was done while moving, usually head on or directly away. I need to play with a long range ammo, but Phased Plasma certainly isn't what it used to be, and even stationary firing on a stationary BS at 30km (optimal) I never managed better than 250 where I could usually hit for 400.
Sassinak	Posted - 2004.06.16 09:56:00 - [33] Then weres the Warp distruptors that operate above 20km then? If ya cant hit **** below 20km and you cant keep someone from escaping at above 20km, how ya actually gonna kill anyone? Sass Arcane Technologies
Uruko	Posted - 2004.06.16 10:11:00 - [34] on reply to the topic, I have tried the following on my tempest with these skills and 2 different setups. minmatar BS lvl3 large proj lvl3 surgical strike lvl3 traj analysis lvl4 motion prediction lvl4 First setup. 6 1400mm loaded with EMP, need that ammo to hit anything at all 30-35km. 1 tracking comp in mid. 1 gyrostab II in low. mission. warping in to 60km from target. Need to lock the small ones fast and then kill everything before they get to about 35km. 25-30km I hit aprox 1/10 and below 20km 0 hits. best hits around 50km (optimal approx 27km!!) Way more ammo is needed now than before but that¦s ok if only the autoreload thingie could be working also...usually 2 or 3 of the guns don¦t reload and a few times one of them has continue to blink making the gun impossible to use wihtout docking. I don¦t use autorelod on my proj anymore til that¦s fixed. Second setup. 6 425mm rails, plutonium ammo. 1 tracking comp in mid. 1 Magnetic Field Stabilizer II in low. mission. warping in on 60km, killing all way faster with the 425mm rails.. and this is kinda strange as I have minmatar BS lvl3, large proj on lvl3 but only larje hybrid on lvl 1. Lower damage on the hits with hybrid but hey I hit way way more.. my conlusion, 425mm on a Tempest, well I¦m sad to say I¦m thinking of it.....
Gariuys	Posted - 2004.06.16 10:18:00 - [35] Originally by: Sassinak Then weres the Warp distruptors that operate above 20km then? If ya cant hit **** below 20km and you cant keep someone from escaping at above 20km, how ya actually gonna kill anyone? SHORT range weapons hit just fine at ranges below 20km. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Krusty TheClone	Posted - 2004.06.16 10:45:00 - [36] Tank I know you was on Chaos a lot over the last few weeks so surely you must know that your suggestion to fit tracking mods is so damn naive its untrue. Or did you just cream your pants over the new Uber Raven which you hump so bad ? I have tried to hit other players battleships in my Battleship using 1400's and as soon as both ships begin to move across each other at 150m/s thats it, you cannot hardly hit each other at all even if you use a Tracking Computer or Fouriers. Dont even start with the BS shouldnt hit fast moving objects because you people need to learn to READ. Im talking about hitting another slow moving hulking monstrosity and some even cant hit cans. Anyone who thinks this tracking change is good/working as planned has had a full frontal labotomy or just wants to fly Ravens or fast frig gank groups.
Arthur Guinness	Posted - 2004.06.16 10:52:00 - [37] I agree, 1400mm should get a slight boost for their tracking. Atm those guns aren't really worth it, the only advantage is that they need no cap, the DoT is way lower than other L turrets, and the tracking makes that even worse. And yes i am using 1 track enhancer II and 1 track comp II, still difficult to hit bs.
MadGaz	Posted - 2004.06.16 10:55:00 - [38] Edited by: MadGaz on 16/06/2004 10:58:18 Tachyons seem to be working ok with up to about 20km and under, Multifreq crystals are kinda useless now, if anything gets in multifreq optimal range you wont hit it much. Thank god I put on some mega pulses :) As for the comment about tracking computers, why should you enhance your weapons tracking so they can hit something? They should be able to hit quite frequently in the first place Oh incase some smartass adds on, I think its a good idea that battleships cant hit frigs with large turrets at close range, but I couldnt even hit a cruiser going towards me with MWD, directly towards me aswell. Oh missiles are kickass now, and as somebody posted, Ravens are gonna be the end all battleship, as they are the only thing that can actually hit frequently :/ ------------------------------------------
Gaeth hEirennan	Posted - 2004.06.16 12:10:00 - [39] Edited by: Gaeth hEirennan on 16/06/2004 12:13:20 I've had the very same problem, even with 720mm against Cruisers. 1 of 5 shots does any significant damage. What's even more irritating is the 40 second lock time in the Tempest now! Previously, with a Supp. CPU, I was down to 5 second locks at a 100 km range and now it's at 24 seconds. 5 seconds to 24 seconds? That is a major nerf.
OrbitalEffect	Posted - 2004.06.16 12:39:00 - [40] I find that my 1400s are almost as effective as before the patch. They miss a bit more in general, and where as it used to be under 20km I'd start thinking about other tactics, it's now 30km. At 50-60km out, frigates pop as before, but since crusiers usually survive the first volley, they actually get a chance to employ their shield boosters now (bravo on the new defenses btw!) and so are a lot tougher to take down. Perhaps, since the time to destroy a cruiser is much greater, the total number of misses will be greater so the perceived accuracy will be lower? I think CCP wants the average battleship pilot to think about covering tactical contingencies, such as close quarter combat. For rat hunting, I may consider a 4/2 or 3/3 mix of 1400 and 800s to prevent things from getting too hairy close in. For fleet engagments, I can go back to the old "gun platform" loadout. For PvP... dealer's choice. My 2 cents.

Chepe Nolon	Posted - 2004.06.16 12:56:00 - [41] I'll take all your advices and try with thorium ammo in my 425mm's again. And then bring out my ion blaster cannons to test them on the cruisers. But AM ammo should be viable in blasters, from dual heavy ion, ion cannon to neutron cannons, right? Or is the blastertron obsolete?
TerminusX	Posted - 2004.06.16 16:42:00 - [42] Please people, try to read posts before you flame them. What I said is that it is not unreasonable for a 1400 to hit a CRUISER at normal (optimal) range when he is orbiting at 200 m/s! I have 12 million skillpoints and almost all my skills are 4 or 5 in these areas. You should NOT have to load tracking computers to do what is a reasonable task for a ship. Let's face it, this game is a group game, but let's not make the BS so subspecialized that it can not even hit a cruiser! That's just silly, and will completely reverse current PvP and NPC tactics. BTW, even with tracking computers the 1400 doesn't hit for crap...damage is down and hit ratio is pathetic. CCP has gone way to much the other way with the 1400 and BS in general. Please let's find some middle ground instead of nerfing a turret subcategory completey. I should be able to load large projectile turrets and be able to fight competively with this BS. Lets get some 'balance' please.....what also bugs me tbh is that before this patch most fleets were quite diverse ie balanced. You saw Caldari, Gallente, Mins, and Amarr in almost any engagement. Seemed pretty balanced to me in many ways. Frigates were a big part of the engagement (though I understand the missile issue with them). Just cruisers seemed nerfed in these battles. Lets not try to reinvent the wheel when things were not too bad to begin with. Divine Retribution - My name is TerminusX, prepare to die.
Redon	Posted - 2004.06.16 17:06:00 - [43] i loged on, undock shot at corp mate with 1400s just to see the damage was crp just like the 425 rails. i dock and put on 2 tracking enhancers just to see my best damage be 297 WTF* 1400s were the most damaging guns in the game per patch. i dont see how u balanced the guns. do you ccp take rate of fire into account in your new math? cause if u knew that 1400s have the slowest rof and make make to the point of cr*p like 425 rails is crazy. another thing how uber did u make the shields on the npc bs's. my tachyons werent doing anything over 90 damage on the shields but when i get into there armor i was doing between 200-300 can u explain that also? i dont care about guns not being able to hit small targets no matter what ship class you in bs or cruiser. but atleast bring back the damage that they used to do. in all im saying change the mistake you think you fixed.
MrBinary	Posted - 2004.06.16 17:49:00 - [44] I would have to agree with Redon here. Completely. Personally, I spent many months, and countless hours training skills that were Minmatar only, so that I could RP my race to the fullest. I never strayed from the Minmatar path. It took a very long time, but all that specialized training was beginning to pay off. I won't say which skills, but many of them trained to level 5...skills which slowly...ever so slowly, advanced me to the upper reaches of the weapons and weapons related mods I could use, and the amounts of damage I was able to dole out. This benefit was not easy to obtain, it was not free...and it most certainly was not quick. It was a long and very slow progression. I decided long ago the type of character I wanted to build and set out on a strict training path. The result? A character who is...nay...WAS proficient in all things Minmatar related. Being able to use the weapons and mods was something I earned and so was the ability to inflict the damage amounts justified by all that training. None of it was free. Now I see that all that has been stripped away with one patch. All those level five skills, those millions upon millions of skill points in weapons and weapon related skills...the countless hours spent training those specialized skills...the expensive turrets, ammo, mods...the dedication to the one race. ...it all amounts to not very much any longer. Just a whole lot of wasted time and effort. Disappointed, MrBinary "[ 2004.05.20 20:11:42 ] Hodal Xibur > Die MrBinary"
TicklePink	Posted - 2004.06.16 18:01:00 - [45] Edited by: TicklePink on 16/06/2004 18:06:19 People always looked at me funny when I told them I wasted a few months learning every weapon....to specialiaze in one weapon in this game is really to hold yourself back..your handing the power over to CCP when you put your chickens in one basket.Im not happy with nerf on the 1400s either...but..at the same time..I as a Gallentean..in a Caldari ship..with level 5 as well in alot of areas un named and a 5% bonus to ship type and weapon type PLUS Tech II damage this and that and TECH 2 tracking thus far and the other was getting less damage from my prescribed weapon than from level [3] in Large Projectiles(with no damage or range modifiers)...so..there was a balance issue to be sure(and still is)... To take away the damage the way they have?...well..needless to say..they've gone too far..maybe theyre listening to the screaming now and gauging how much damage they'll put back? .................................TicklePink
Bohr	Posted - 2004.06.16 18:12:00 - [46] Originally by: Gariuys Originally by: Sassinak Then weres the Warp distruptors that operate above 20km then? If ya cant hit **** below 20km and you cant keep someone from escaping at above 20km, how ya actually gonna kill anyone? SHORT range weapons hit just fine at ranges below 20km. No they don't :/ 180mm autocannons hit like 1%, if i'm that lucky, when orbiting. Could be cause of graphics not making the turrets turn, and therefor the sig radius setup not working properly. Just my guess, but tbh that sucks, only reason i use them is to pick off frigs. And no, a webber does'nt change it.
MrBinary	Posted - 2004.06.16 18:17:00 - [47] Originally by: TicklePink Edited by: TicklePink on 16/06/2004 18:06:19....to specialiaze in one weapon in this game is really to hold yourself back..your handing the power over to CCP when you put your chickens in one basket. Specializing in one race or another should not amount to "holding yourself back", nor should it mean that you should be penilized because you choose to do so. That should not mean that beacause you chose one race over another, that you should have and overt advantage or disadvantage over another. Those of you that trained everything under the sun, good for you. But for those of us who tried to specialize a bit, to role play a bit, that logic does not mean a whole lot. In fact...a character who specializes in one area, or race as is the case here...should most certainly be better in that area than a "jack of all trades". And those like myself who in this case, decided to remain faithful to the Minmatar, well we appear (at least at the moment) to be really screwed now. In my case, I have a 110 million ship, millions upon millions in weapons, mods and ammo...and invested countless hours of specialized skill training in a character who can't hit **** now. I guess I could become an UBER miner! Regards, MrBinary "[ 2004.05.20 20:11:42 ] Hodal Xibur > Die MrBinary"
Marcus Grisbius	Posted - 2004.06.16 18:42:00 - [48] @MrBinary I don't think you will have the problems with your race specialization if you would modify your technique to fit you race. Minmatars base their attacks on speed and firepower. They resort to raids rather than long engagements (from an RP standpoint). Projectiles have the worst tracking of any turret type. In order to compensate, use your speed to your advantage. You will see much better accuracy and damage when heading directly into a target while firing. These aren't the 'fight in an orbit' guns that other races have. Fighting in a Tempest will require learning the race fighting style that is favored by the Minmatar. Charge fast and hit hard. Certainty of death... little chance of success... what are we waiting for? - Gimli, son of Gloinn
Chade Malloy	Posted - 2004.06.16 19:42:00 - [49] Hm, yeah, you definately don¦t make that much damage than b4 patch, regardless the weapon. 1400s are really useless for short range combat, under ~ 18km its over for them, even when you go against a BS. But i think thats good, since its the cannon with the longest range and highest damage multiplier. so if anything comes closer than 20 km finish it off with some autocannons (which work pretty good after the patch, imho). In general, fights now tend to last longer, and are more tactical, especially fighting heavy NPC BS is more fun. And its good that the npcs don¦t do that much damage as b4. A drawback is, that the raven now clearly has an advantage over any other ship, since its missiles have constant damage, regardless speed or size of target. Imho there should be a possibility of ~ 60 % that a missile doesnt hit for full dammage, maybe due to premature explosion too far from target, to bring the raven more in line with the other ships. Patience wins.
Mindecho	Posted - 2004.06.16 19:53:00 - [50] Edited by: Mindecho on 16/06/2004 20:01:59 When everyone is flying around in Ravens to do PvP maybe they will figure out they hit us way to hard with the nerf bat. If they are going to make Large projectiles so useless at least allow the Min Battleship bonuses to work on Large, Medium and Small Projectiles. Mind

Abisha	Posted - 2004.06.16 20:50:00 - [51] Ahh BATTLESHIPS what are they 3 frigates in 0.0 space rap you apart if you dont carry small weapons but 3 frigates are to badass for your small weapons so you still get to armor dont even think if there are BS NPCS around you fit from close haha np BS NPC just stay away from you and you still dont do **** against the frigates short saying "BATTLE"ships tunes to a BIG pile of JUNK
Xerxes Athos	Posted - 2004.06.17 11:18:00 - [52] Originally by: MrBinary I would have to agree with Redon here. Completely. Personally, I spent many months, and countless hours training skills that were Minmatar only, so that I could RP my race to the fullest. I never strayed from the Minmatar path. It took a very long time, but all that specialized training was beginning to pay off. I won't say which skills, but many of them trained to level 5...skills which slowly...ever so slowly, advanced me to the upper reaches of the weapons and weapons related mods I could use, and the amounts of damage I was able to dole out. This benefit was not easy to obtain, it was not free...and it most certainly was not quick. It was a long and very slow progression. I decided long ago the type of character I wanted to build and set out on a strict training path. The result? A character who is...nay...WAS proficient in all things Minmatar related. Being able to use the weapons and mods was something I earned and so was the ability to inflict the damage amounts justified by all that training. None of it was free. Now I see that all that has been stripped away with one patch. All those level five skills, those millions upon millions of skill points in weapons and weapon related skills...the countless hours spent training those specialized skills...the expensive turrets, ammo, mods...the dedication to the one race. ...it all amounts to not very much any longer. Just a whole lot of wasted time and effort. Disappointed, MrBinary Same Story for me. Training all those Minmatar/gunney/skills and kill it with one patch! thanks ccp!! Very Disappointed, Xerxes
Dark Messiah	Posted - 2004.06.17 11:46:00 - [53] Edited by: Dark Messiah on 17/06/2004 11:51:07 Edited by: Dark Messiah on 17/06/2004 11:48:34 yeah its pritty sad that they have done this i use a tracking computer 2, and when a ship comes into my opt range i hardly scratch it i hit better with my 1200's when i am 60km away from the target. so looks like i am going to fit another tracking compter 2 . Even tho i should not have to.... CCP JUST THINK BEFORE ACTING AND REALLY HAVE A BIG RETHINK ON PROJECTILES!!! (cuss you ****** them up)
Gariuys	Posted - 2004.06.17 12:06:00 - [54] since people are missing it when not posted in all caps. IT'S NOT JUST THE FECKING PROJECTILES SO STOP ACTING LIKE IT. Wonder if that will help, probably not. Oh and got another one. SHORT RANGE TURRETS ARE HITTING FINE AT SHORT RANGE. I'm a blasterboat pilot full out, so first thing I did when the patch hit was.. yeah you guessed it right, test my blasterrax and blasterthron, neither have trouble hitting stuff at the correct ranges, I'm a bit unimpressed with my hits against cruisers orbiting me with a web on em and them not using mwds so maybe transversal velocity is having a bigger effect then it should. Other then that, things are fine as is, just have to relearn how to put your guns to best use. next one. YOUR TRAINING IS NOT FREAKING USELESS NOW, YOU ARE STILL BETTER WITH WHATEVER TURRET/SHIP YOU TRAINED UP THEN SOMEONE THAT DIDN'T, AND ALL TURRETS/SHIPS ARE STRUGGLING TO ADJUST EQUALLY. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Temerlyn	Posted - 2004.06.17 12:07:00 - [55] i wanna add my 2 cents here in a hope to change peoples perspectives. Before i do there is still some issues with the mathematics of the guns or 1400 arts got to nerfed, but i havn't tested out 1400 arts with some tracking comps. And yes read what i typed before you flame about needing tracking comps etc etc. before the patch you could equip large guns that did alot of damage and have efective defense as well, mostly shield boosting. Basically this created a standard for most ship setups. Big long range uber damage guns and Shield tanking out the ying yang. Only a few brave souls tried new things like blaster throns etc. Now... If i become the uber tank, without the tracking mods my guns are very sub par. If i sacrafice alot of the slots used for tanking and replace them with trackers etc, then i hit better and do more damage but sacrafice my ability to tank. To me this is balance. Now when a fleet engagement happens i can have a wing of what i call blockers and a wing of offensive tacklers. When i 1 on 1 with a ship, will it be armour tanked or will it be uber offensive? There is now some actual set up variety added with this patch that not many people are seeing. So think this especially in fleet engagements, who are your blockers and who is your offensive line up. One add thing, granted i have not fully tested large guns with decent amount of tracking mods. i wanna test out 2 track comps and 2 low slot tracking mods and see what the large guns do then. If they do more damage considerably then my ideal is right. If they still suck then there is definately a problem. So go and test that and post results to that ideal. please flame with logical and well thought out responses.
Gariuys	Posted - 2004.06.17 12:09:00 - [56] on a serious note, I think it's a damn fine change all together, and those that used to use 1 ammo type and 1 turret type no matter if the target was 90km or 9km away are getting screwed over pretty badly. BUT THOSE PEOPLE SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DO THAT IN THE FIRST PLACE. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Einheriar Ulrich	Posted - 2004.06.17 12:16:00 - [57] Originally by: Gariuys on a serious note, I think it's a damn fine change all together, and those that used to use 1 ammo type and 1 turret type no matter if the target was 90km or 9km away are getting screwed over pretty badly. BUT THOSE PEOPLE SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DO THAT IN THE FIRST PLACE. You may be right, but that doesnt change that a battleship cannot hit anything, not travelling towards or away from you or if its dead in sapce, as soonas your enemy travels vertically or horisontanly, your fubared, because then you cannot hit it, even if you fitted 12 mio tracking enhancers, so the game is nerfed beyond recognision. So Say I. Einheriar Ulrich of the Bloodline of Einheriar. **Minion Of VOTF**
Maule	Posted - 2004.06.17 14:02:00 - [58] right now the only problem whit 1400mm¦s is that they cant hit on short range.. and dont use EMP L.. use Phased Plasma L. hit better, better dmg and can make good dmg down to 35km and up to 100km
OrbitalEffect	Posted - 2004.06.17 14:20:00 - [59] Originally by: Maule right now the only problem whit 1400mm¦s is that they cant hit on short range.. and dont use EMP L.. use Phased Plasma L. hit better, better dmg and can make good dmg down to 35km and up to 100km I completely agree with Maule even though he's stinkin Amarr. Switching to the correct ammo is even more important for shorter range engagements now. /me checks the market for ammo bps...
Luc Boye	Posted - 2004.06.17 14:34:00 - [60] Edited by: Luc Boye on 17/06/2004 14:35:46 /me starts training another lvl5 skill and re-installs FREELANCER for some pvp fun :P -- 2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage.

SwitchBl4d3	Posted - 2004.06.17 15:02:00 - [61] may i ask what level peoples motion prediction is? i tried 1400's without tracking mods and they hit everythign but frigs "Teh lord of Nonni"
MrBinary	Posted - 2004.06.17 15:51:00 - [62] Greetings, After a bit more testing last night, this is my uneducated opinion of the result of what has been done here. This applies to the larger 1400's only. 1. You will use more ammo now. 2. You will miss more. 3. Your shots on average will be weaker. 4. You must pay much more attention to your range. 5. Frigates are very, very hard to hit. With that being said, I have to also say that I did manage to slip back into finding where my personal sweet spots are. Here are a couple of my better shots during last nights testing. These results are definately not as frequent, nor as high in damage value as prior...but show that good damage can still be dealt with the 1400's. 2004.06.17 05:56:49combatYour 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I perfectly strikes Blood Arch Reaver, wrecking for 996.8 damage. Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I perfectly strikes Blood Arch Reaver, wrecking for 996.8 damage. 2004.06.17 06:20:27combatYour 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I perfectly strikes Blood Arch Templar, wrecking for 972.4 damage. Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I perfectly strikes Blood Arch Templar, wrecking for 972.4 damage. I am still kinda bummed that my skill levels, all my training, does not have the same affect on my surroundings as it once had. It's almost like my training has been nerfed, and almost feels like CCP has taken time away from me. On a side note...I had to disable the durn "auto reload sometimes" feature as I was tired of having my screan blocked by annoying messages. Was this "feature" tested at all? When I am carrying ONE type ammo in my hold, and the computer tells me it can't auto reload because it cant find the same type ammo in my hold, I seriously have to question if this was tested at all. Surely I couldn't be the first out of the gate to notice this. Regards, MrBinary "[ 2004.05.20 20:11:42 ] Hodal Xibur > Die MrBinary"
Gariuys	Posted - 2004.06.17 16:02:00 - [63] auto-reload is working fine for me. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
JoCool	Posted - 2004.06.17 16:09:00 - [64] Yup, auto-reload works fine. Just divert your ammunition into 6 batches, one for each gun.


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