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Mars Frederiksen
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
0
   |
Posted - 2012.03.27 20:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
the vast majority of the type of game play that i participate in involves cloaks and ambushes, and I've been doing it for over six years. In fact, it is the only reason I play and love this game. cloaks are not over-powered - we don't need uncloaking probes or any of those terrible things. Cloaks work PERFECTLY right now. that being said, I would like to propose a Tech 3 covert ops cloak (high-skill, high-cost, limited ship applications, etc) that has the following attributes:
while cloaked:
the module grants the player the (selective?) ability to invert his fof-status to be seen as friendly to enemy ships. besides the obvious, this has several interesting applications - like the ability to completely end bot ratting. this inverted fof-status is presented to every pilot, including "friendly" ships, which now see the cloaked ship's fof-status as hostile unless they are in the same gang as the cloaked player. as a balancing feature, the module has a skill-dependent cool-down period, where after the player decloaks, his fof-status will enter an altered state for several seconds and appear hostile on EVERYONE'S overviews (creating an opportunity for friendly-fire mistakes, as well as alerting the victim to his impending doom in his overview). the idea is that this module can be as dangerous to the pilot as it is to the enemy.
while uncloaked:
everything works the same as it is now, except for the cool-down period as described above.
to prohibit misuse and panic, these modules could be marked as "contraband" and rendered illegal in high-sec. note that the effect of this module is lost on anyone who sees the player cloak in local, as an observant pilot will notice the color of his tag change. from an engineering standpoint, the mechanics of the module and how it interacts with the server could be governed using the existing standings mechanics - even friendly pos and drones could be fooled into accidental attacks (as stated before, this very useful and powerful module should have big drawbacks besides the lame traditional things like sig radius and dps gimpage). |
Jabba daGutt
Snoochie Boochie
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 20:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
After I read this and figured out what you meant, it became clear that this is a pretty cool idea! |
Zombo Brian
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 21:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
great, you just broke the standings system
why mark anyone as blue or red when its totally obsolete once someone can fly these things?
and why, except for makro-busting (which in reality it isnt) would this be necessary?
also, botters could just program their bots to warp out if anything other than fleet members are near, or even when anything except rats are near
just another "i use this every day so it should be more powerfull" thread |
MushroomMushroom
Consolidated Sprocket
8
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 21:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
Smart botters would foil this in a variety of ways:
Method 1: Set hostiles -5, friendlies +10, anyone +5 is obviously using this device
Method 2: Set no one red, for all intents and purposes in the eyes of a botter, red=orange=neut SAFE UP. If everyone is neut, they can't flip standings to blue.
Method 3: Supposing you gave the neuts in method 2 a way to make themselves blue, just set friendlies red, or orange, or light blue.
Really for this to work against botters you would need a variety of choices as to what it sets you, and would need to tailor it to the bot your hunting. Even then, better hope the bots don't start checking corp/alliance info and maintaining external blue/red lists. Which is exactly what players would do too. |
Mars Frederiksen
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 21:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
this does not break the standings system - i augments it to add new functionality to the game. these things would be too cost-prohibitive to build a whole fleet out of, and there wont be enough people flying them to "break" the standings system. it wont let you sneak into enemy poses and offline things. it wont let one person (or a group of people) completely turn the tide of a fight or a huge battle.
also, it isnt just for "makro-busting" - it's a very small buff to those of us who like to kill ratters. it also wont allow us to completely murder every ratter or ruin the game for anyone. it simply adds another dynamic element to a game that is composed of such things.
finally, how can a bot detect a cloaked ship warping on grid with it? this does break botting, because bots will no longer hide the ship as soon as a hostile enters system. |
Mars Frederiksen
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 21:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
MushroomMushroom wrote:Smart botters would foil this in a variety of ways:
Method 1: Set hostiles -5, friendlies +10, anyone +5 is obviously using this device
Method 2: Set no one red, for all intents and purposes in the eyes of a botter, red=orange=neut SAFE UP. If everyone is neut, they can't flip standings to blue.
Method 3: Supposing you gave the neuts in method 2 a way to make themselves blue, just set friendlies red, or orange, or light blue.
Really for this to work against botters you would need a variety of choices as to what it sets you, and would need to tailor it to the bot your hunting. Even then, better hope the bots don't start checking corp/alliance info and maintaining external blue/red lists. Which is exactly what players would do too.
that's pretty creative. however, it would be trivial to make the code of the cloak invert the standings and multiply them, by say, 20. this would change the "shades of gray" in the standings system to more of a Boolean hostile-or-not scenario. |
MushroomMushroom
Consolidated Sprocket
8
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 21:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
You indicate that those in local when you activate the device will not be deceived; as all modules turn off when you jump, wont anyone in local when you enter know your true standings, and safe up? For those entering local after you arrival, wont they just look at your pilot info before they start ratting and see that the corp/alliance is not in fact friendly? |
Zombo Brian
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 21:16:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mars Frederiksen wrote:this does not break the standings system - i augments it to add new functionality to the game. these things would be too cost-prohibitive to build a whole fleet out of, and there wont be enough people flying them to "break" the standings system. it wont let you sneak into enemy poses and offline things. it wont let one person (or a group of people) completely turn the tide of a fight or a huge battle.
also, it isnt just for "makro-busting" - it's a very small buff to those of us who like to kill ratters. it also wont allow us to completely murder every ratter or ruin the game for anyone. it simply adds another dynamic element to a game that is composed of such things.
finally, how can a bot detect a cloaked ship warping on grid with it? this does break botting, because bots will no longer hide the ship as soon as a hostile enters system.
it does break the standings system, why would you even set any standings if they can be copied and be made totally pointless?
also, as stated above, there are allready ways to counter it fairly easy
intel would also soon find out and post in intel channels about you
botters will just straight warp to station if anyone enters besides known blues
cloaking does NOT need a buff
please state why this is needed or what experience it would add to the game except for you wanting to kill more ratters
also, go and make real pvp |
Mars Frederiksen
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 21:21:00 -
[9] - Quote
MushroomMushroom wrote:You indicate that those in local when you activate the device will not be deceived; as all modules turn off when you jump, wont anyone in local when you enter know your true standings, and safe up? For those entering local after you arrival, wont they just look at your pilot info before they start ratting and see that the corp/alliance is not in fact friendly?
yes this is true - and this is also why it doesn't break the game. if smart ratters start checking bios, then they will be just fine. the lazy/dumb ratters will die.
if you AFK cloak all day, then many people will have no idea you are hostile unless they check bios. because there wont be 10,000 people flying with these things on there ships, there will be many lazy people.
i like game mechanics that allow for player error, and reward those who are vigilant. |
esc shk
Handelskrieg Industries
Goonswarm Federation
168
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 21:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
I'm only posting here to give Mars attention |
Zombo Brian
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 21:35:00 -
[11] - Quote
so you expect for people, even miners, to be 100% vigilant, check every single player in local, looking every second at the local to counter such a thing?
you do know that many things in eve take a really long time and are to big parts not really exciting, but necessary to make money and logistic? not everyone has time to JUST sit in a belt for hours mining, i for my part mine while learning, so i dont fall asleep from mining or just learning^^
you can allready cause big trouble with afk cloaking a whole day without doing anything, luring people out and then attacking them, why contribute further to the dumb head-on taking-no-time pvp and make it even harder to counter? |
Mars Frederiksen
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 21:38:00 -
[12] - Quote
so zombo, what's your favorite way to play eve? how do you spend most of your free time? |
Zombo Brian
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 21:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
Mostly mining and some anomalies at the time, but i join fleets and try to pin down hostiles in our system, since im pretty busy most of the time and dont really have high SP yet
On weekends joining fleet ops with the corp/alliance also
For solo pvp i simply dont have the SPs nor the experience in solo pvp if everyone wanting to pvp solo flys a faction-fitted dramiel, also hot drops are pretty damn dirty bait tactics
however, back to the topic:
why, except for killing 0.0 carebears easier, would this add to the game? you still didnt answer that one OP |
Mars Frederiksen
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 21:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
oh you are just precious! |
Zombo Brian
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 21:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
Mars Frederiksen wrote:oh you are just precious!
yeah, Mr. badass, killing ratters is so goddamn hard isnt it?
so, why do we need this cloaking device again except for killing ratters? |
Mars Frederiksen
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 23:04:00 -
[16] - Quote
i like your moxy! i was going to troll you, but i'm kind of impressed at your guile! tell ya what - i happen to have an in with the goonfleet director of recruiting. i could put a good word in for you, if you want. i'd even mentor/sponsor you! contact this toon in-game and we can set it up (just stop crapping up my thread, thanks). |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
84
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 01:02:00 -
[17] - Quote
It's an interesting concept, but it needs to be balanced against the assumption that everyone who wants one can get one rather than an assumption of rarity (see titans). |
Mars Frederiksen
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 02:05:00 -
[18] - Quote
it's already severely limited by the fact that it's a covert ops cloak - it will only fit on a few ships. you could take it even further and make it so that it only fits on T3 ships. |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
150
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 14:24:00 -
[19] - Quote
Buy an eveguy and awox bots like everyone else instead of proposing a game-breaking item that will let you awox literally anyone at almost no cost. |
Mars Frederiksen
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 18:46:00 -
[20] - Quote
it doesn't break the game, dummy |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
85
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 18:53:00 -
[21] - Quote
Mars Frederiksen wrote:it's already severely limited by the fact that it's a covert ops cloak - it will only fit on a few ships. you could take it even further and make it so that it only fits on T3 ships.
This is hardly a severe limitation, again: anybody who want to use one will be able to get one and the appropriate platform to fly it on.
If it generated an interference field that prevented both the T3 Cloak and a Cyno generator of any type being equipped to the same ship, *that* would be a serious limitation. |
Mars Frederiksen
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 21:03:00 -
[22] - Quote
just like how all covert ops cloaking ships can't fit cynos, right? |
Tikktokk Tokkzikk
Glorious Revolution
The 99 Percent
56
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 22:43:00 -
[23] - Quote
Just remove local and make a system upgrade to get it back.
Someone will AFK-cloak in their ratting systems and force them to no-local systems.
profit! |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
85
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 02:32:00 -
[24] - Quote
Mars Frederiksen wrote:just like how all covert ops cloaking ships can't fit cynos, right?
The covops cloaks aren't as potent as this, and that's the best tactic I could come up with for it as described, so I figure that was the tactic you were aiming it for. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power.
Cascade Imminent
577
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 02:44:00 -
[25] - Quote
sounds stupid and gay, i'm not right clicking > show info every ship i see in space because you suck at ganking |
Mars Frederiksen
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 07:07:00 -
[26] - Quote
nicolo, what's you favorite spawn? |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power.
Cascade Imminent
590
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 07:20:00 -
[27] - Quote
pretty much anything without em resists hth |
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
507
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 11:07:00 -
[28] - Quote
Mars Frederiksen wrote:it doesn't break the game, dummy
It does, because it is just ripe for abuse as you hope it would be.
"Oh look, Soandso is an ally in local. Quick, invite him to fleet!"
Soandso accepts invite and warps to fleet.
Soandso opens cyno while opening HIC bubble.
Win!
Of course, this would also assume that Soandso (the OP) is too lazy to bother actually infiltrate a corp and work the trust like only a goon can. But if OP doesn't want to bother trying to act the part of a spy, then why should everyone else bother to act the part of an intelligent person and check the personal bio before inviting...oh wait it just makes it easier for the OP. |
Mars Frederiksen
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 16:57:00 -
[29] - Quote
if your dumb enough to invite someone you dont know into a gang with capitals in it, then you deserve to be killed. i dont see how this mod changes that. honestly, though, i have a feeling that none of you are really qualified to be posting your opinions in this thread (except ganthrithor, who was just trolling). none of you ever leave high-sec, so i know none of you have capitals (your stupid orca doesnt count). |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
85
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 17:12:00 -
[30] - Quote
Yep. I never leave Empire space anymore. Why should I? There's nothing in nullsec that I don't already have access to, and I don't need your permission to play there. |
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