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Fixing the Prophecy

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SoftRevolution	Posted - 2008.09.16 12:07:00 - [31] God yes.
Flyit	Posted - 2008.09.16 12:21:00 - [32] The Prophecy is fine. A T2 Autocannon fitted Prophecy will beat a T2 fitted Brutix more often than not. Leave it.
hustle man	Posted - 2008.09.16 13:59:00 - [33] i love my proph to death even though many have told me to ditch it for a harbinger. IMHO i think it would be only fair to add 1 additional missile launcher only. everything else stays the same. i don't like the fact that it has only one launcher being the same as the omen and arbitraitor witch both have 1 launcher slot and they are only cruisers! since the proph is the next step up from cruiser, it should have a 2nd launcher option.
P'uck	Posted - 2008.09.16 14:04:00 - [34] I dont know all the amarr ships offhand, but didn't they only change t2 ships to khanid missile spewers?
Kaileen Starsong Amarr Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.09.16 14:52:00 - [35] I'd hate to see any Amarr T1 ship with missile bonuses tbh, just does not fit race-wise. What I'd like to see is: 10% optimal, 5% resist per lvl; 75 m3 drone bay, 50 m3 drone bandwith Should get a wee bit of grid and CPU too, probably(as should other tier-1 BCs except, maybe, Brutix tbh). Not much, around 50 more grid and 20 CPU. Also, gangmods fittings halved?
Liang Nuren No Salvation	Posted - 2008.09.16 15:02:00 - [36] Originally by: Kaileen Starsong I'd hate to see any Amarr T1 ship with missile bonuses tbh, just does not fit race-wise. What I'd like to see is: 10% optimal, 5% resist per lvl; 75 m3 drone bay, 50 m3 drone bandwith Should get a wee bit of grid and CPU too, probably(as should other tier-1 BCs except, maybe, Brutix tbh). Not much, around 50 more grid and 20 CPU. Also, gangmods fittings halved? Though your idea isn't bad, it does mean that the Prophecy would steal the Ferox's role, just like the Apoc stole the Rokh's. How does 5% HAM ROF and 5% HAM EM damage sound instead? ;-) -Liang --
Kaileen Starsong Amarr Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.09.16 15:18:00 - [37] Originally by: Liang Nuren Though your idea isn't bad, it does mean that the Prophecy would steal the Ferox's role, just like the Apoc stole the Rokh's. How does 5% HAM ROF and 5% HAM EM damage sound instead? ;-) -Liang Originally by: Kaileen Starsong I'd hate to see any Amarr T1 ship with missile bonuses tbh, just does not fit race-wise. Going by your arguement, giving Proph HM/HAM bonuses would turn it into an armor-tanked drake(as opposed to an armor-tanked ferox(which is actually not THAT bad with blasters+gangmod)). It does go against natural Amarr ship-design philosophy, though :P Also, dual damage bonus on HAMs, especially if it's 6 or more launchers is a recipe for an overpowered ship(and while I don't really think Amarr are that overpowered atm, they don't really need to be best at everything ) Unless you're going to make a gimmick-bonus ship, you won't find much roles for Proph tbh. It's either semi-sniper / web-edge fighter with optimal bonus or some kind of drone boat; that way Proph stays true to Amarr doctrine btw. I'd like to see Proph having optimal bonus, larger drone-bay(say, flight of meds, flight of lights is nice, eh?) and ability to fit a decent setup with gangmod. That would make it viable, imo. Well, that's just my opinion anyways :P Feel free to disagree. Not to mention that changing tier-1 BCs is most likely not anywhere close enough in the CCP's "to-do" list
Tal Nok Amarr Digital assassins G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.09.16 15:40:00 - [38] Leave the Prophecy alone, amazingly enough, nothing is wrong with it. If you are having problems flying, fitting, pvping, try a different ship. You obviously don't know what your doing. Originally by: CCP Mitnal Forum gods ANGRY. Need sacrifice.
InsanlyEvlPerson Gallente Night-Stalkers	Posted - 2008.09.16 15:54:00 - [39] Originally by: Kaileen Starsong Originally by: Liang Nuren Though your idea isn't bad, it does mean that the Prophecy would steal the Ferox's role, just like the Apoc stole the Rokh's. How does 5% HAM ROF and 5% HAM EM damage sound instead? ;-) -Liang Originally by: Kaileen Starsong I'd hate to see any Amarr T1 ship with missile bonuses tbh, just does not fit race-wise. Going by your arguement, giving Proph HM/HAM bonuses would turn it into an armor-tanked drake(as opposed to an armor-tanked ferox(which is actually not THAT bad with blasters+gangmod)). It does go against natural Amarr ship-design philosophy, though :P Also, dual damage bonus on HAMs, especially if it's 6 or more launchers is a recipe for an overpowered ship(and while I don't really think Amarr are that overpowered atm, they don't really need to be best at everything ) Unless you're going to make a gimmick-bonus ship, you won't find much roles for Proph tbh. It's either semi-sniper / web-edge fighter with optimal bonus or some kind of drone boat; that way Proph stays true to Amarr doctrine btw. I'd like to see Proph having optimal bonus, larger drone-bay(say, flight of meds, flight of lights is nice, eh?) and ability to fit a decent setup with gangmod. That would make it viable, imo. Well, that's just my opinion anyways :P Feel free to disagree. Not to mention that changing tier-1 BCs is most likely not anywhere close enough in the CCP's "to-do" list once again, optimal bonus would be awsome, especially if it translated over to the absolution... at the moment i still debate whether i should get on or not, since i love my beam zealot so much.... loss of that range would suck.
Nai Weil Caldari Tupperware Party	Posted - 2008.09.16 16:04:00 - [40] Edited by: Nai Weil on 16/09/2008 16:06:27 Given that the Harbinger only has 50m¦ drone bay and bandwidth, giving the Prophecy 75m¦ would be overkill. The main reason Prophecy looks and feels so bad is mainly because the Harbinger is so powerful. It a more than serviceable ship, although EFT-warriors and people who need every single edge they can get (mainly PvPers) will find no reason to fly it over the Harbinger. Having said that it would be nice if there was something in the Prophecy's favour other than a solitary launcher. If we look at the other three Tier-1 BCs, there's something to set them apart from the Tier-2s. Ferox and Brutix are hybrid platforms compared to the Drake's missiles, while Cyclone has a different ship layout from the Cane (iirc, it has more shields, and more midslots and dronebay). Although in general we accept that the Cane, Myrm and Drake are superior to the Cyclone, Brutix and Ferox, there are things the Tier-1s can do which the Tier-2s cannot. Proph is the only one which is an identical platform to the Harbinger, yet has lower shields, armour, structure, CPU, powergrid, dronebay, highslots, turret hardpoints and midslots (lowslots are identical, and it's amazing how many Prophecy bashers still believe that it only has 5 lowslots). I don't like the idea of a T1 Amarr BC spewing missiles like an armour-tanked Drake, even less if it's HAM only (the Proph's speed will make HAMs a real pain to use). I love it as a tanked-up version of the Harbinger with less gank, and I believe simply by boosting the armour and adding a lowslot will shut those Harbinger fanboys up who claim that the Binger can tank better simply because it can fit an extra plate. A larger dronebay would be wonderful, while an extra launcher hardpoint would be nice, but not very useful (unless they added an extra high slot and some extra CPU/powergrid as well, but that would make it a bit overpowered for a Tier-1 BC). Maybe give it more speed as well, something different to set it apart from the Harbinger, but not powerful enough to challenge the Harbinger as a superior choice for a BC laser platform.
kor anon Amarr Sons Of The Fallen BROTHERS GRIM.	Posted - 2008.09.16 16:34:00 - [41] I like the prophecy its quite a nice ship. Its tanking capabilities are awesome, while still maintaining ~300dps
Isaac Starstriker Amarr Sisterhood of Galactic Sirens	Posted - 2008.09.16 17:03:00 - [42] Originally by: Deschenus Maximus Originally by: Liang Nuren As for those saying the Proph is fine... lawl? Seriously? It is very much fine. People fly em and don't usually give the Harbinger a look unless the darn thing gets popped by Pirates. Superior tank and missile hardpoint = win. I'm not being sarcastic either. Live with it. The prop is about as good as all the other Tier 1 BCs. Live with the fact that it sucks just a tad bit. --Isaac
Liang Nuren No Salvation	Posted - 2008.09.16 17:08:00 - [43] Originally by: Isaac Starstriker It is very much fine. People fly em and don't usually give the Harbinger a look unless the darn thing gets popped by Pirates. Superior tank and missile hardpoint = win. I'm not being sarcastic either. Live with it. The prop is about as good as all the other Tier 1 BCs. Live with the fact that it sucks just a tad bit. --Isaac You messed your quoting up. I didn't say that. -Liang --
arbalesttom Caldari Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2008.09.16 17:16:00 - [44] Edited by: arbalesttom on 16/09/2008 17:26:43 Edited by: arbalesttom on 16/09/2008 17:16:29 Originally by: Isaac Starstriker It is very much fine. People fly em and don't usually give the Harbinger a look unless the darn thing gets popped by Pirates. Superior tank and missile hardpoint = win. I'm not being sarcastic either. Live with it. The prop is about as good as all the other Tier 1 BCs. Live with the fact that it sucks just a tad bit. --Isaac Yeah your so right. I did say that. -Liang Ed. *Sig* Originally by: Cpt Branko That is a JoJo, a forum troll used by Amarr whiners.
Liang Nuren No Salvation	Posted - 2008.09.16 17:17:00 - [45] Originally by: arbalesttom Year your so right. I did say that. -Liang Ed. Diez! -Liang --
arbalesttom Caldari Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2008.09.16 17:28:00 - [46] Edited by: arbalesttom on 16/09/2008 17:29:57 Edited by: arbalesttom on 16/09/2008 17:29:01 Originally by: arbalesttom Year your so right. I did say that. -Liang Ed. Hai guise chek mah new alt hes even smoarter than liang himselv! -Liang Sorry thats it mr Forumgod, no more playing around with ya And yeah i definately like your ideas on the proph since im training amarr cruiser 4-5 right now *Sig* Originally by: Cpt Branko That is a JoJo, a forum troll used by Amarr whiners.
Liang Nuren No Salvation	Posted - 2008.09.16 17:38:00 - [47] Originally by: arbalesttom Sorry thats it mr Forumgod, no more playing around with ya And yeah i definately like your ideas on the proph since im training amarr cruiser 4-5 right now FOTM chaser! I just don't understand why everyone isn't as hyped about a 900 DPS missile spewing monster as I am... ;-) -Liang --
Kaileen Starsong Amarr Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.09.16 17:56:00 - [48] Edited by: Kaileen Starsong on 16/09/2008 17:57:15 Originally by: Liang Nuren I just don't understand why everyone isn't as hyped about a 900 DPS missile spewing monster as I am... ;-) Duh, cos it's boring both to fly one(no challenge even against ships of classes above and/or everything runs away) and to see only those ships of certain ship class. Been there, seen that(i.e. prenerf Myrm, yay for 850+ DPS and ~450 DPS active tank) :P It's fun to pop FOTM-****s at first, but it gets rather dull very quickly ...And then comes Dev_A and it's "I SMITE THEE WITH THE POWER OF CELESTIAL NERFBAT!!!!111"... ...And then the forums asplode and there's nothing interesting other than woes for several weeks... That's why noone wants 900 DPS BC :P Oh, ya, CAPLESS!! TRACKING INDEPENDANT!!! WITH VARIABLE DAMAGE TYPES!!!111 PS. Sorry, could not resist :P
Jennae Gallente LiveTech	Posted - 2008.09.16 17:58:00 - [49] Edited by: Jennae on 16/09/2008 17:58:46 wah someone else has a missile boat and we don't. We want one too. no, wait. We want a better one. all the T1 battlecruisers are worse than the tier 2. and you want an amarr (mainly gun/armor)tier1 missile ship to be better than a tier 2 missile ship (from a missile specialized race)? cmon. I would like tier1 BC getting 1 more slot (either hi/mid/low) but i don't think it's gunna happen. Quit trying to fix everything with these ideas. Let them balance what they have first.
Myra2007 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.09.16 18:22:00 - [50] Originally by: Isaac Starstriker It is very much fine. [...] Live with the fact that it sucks just a tad bit. Compelling argument.
Deschenus Maximus Amarr The Grim Reapers	Posted - 2008.09.16 18:24:00 - [51] Originally by: Isaac Starstriker It is very much fine. People fly em and don't usually give the Harbinger a look unless the darn thing gets popped by Pirates. Superior tank and missile hardpoint = win. Ugh... I used to fly the Proph before the Binger. Sure, resist bonuses are nice, but not at the cost of quite a bit of DPS, imo. Now, if my idea of making the Proph a mini-Abaddon went through, you'd have a much more useful ship overall. Originally by: Isaac Starstriker I'm not being sarcastic either. Live with it. The prop is about as good as all the other Tier 1 BCs. Live with the fact that it sucks just a tad bit. No, I'd prefer CCP fix all the Tier 1 instead.
P'uck	Posted - 2008.09.16 18:40:00 - [52] I said it once, and everybody ignored me, I'll just try again: When the Khanid boats got changed to missile spewers, they just did that to the t2 ships, right? Wouldnt it be a bit weird to have that t1 bc suddenly become a fat sacrilege?
arbalesttom Caldari Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2008.09.16 18:47:00 - [53] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: arbalesttom Sorry thats it mr Forumgod, no more playing around with ya And yeah i definately like your ideas on the proph since im training amarr cruiser 4-5 right now FOTM chaser! I just don't understand why everyone isn't as hyped about a 900 DPS missile spewing monster as I am... ;-) -Liang Its too funny though, its actually the first time ever im doing a fotm chase, because i started on caldari up to a fully t2 fitted drake, gave up on them, started all from scratch on gallente and now i consider myself 'pretty maxed' on both armor, drones and rails. Actually, i dont have a clue what to train next, so thats why i figured i would train up some amarr stuff. And tbh, the ONLY thing i, for some reason, dont like about training for the khanid ships, is the fact i have to work more on my missile skills (wich is a lousy 1.8mill sp atm), but i guess thats the anti-caldari person in me. *Sig* Originally by: Cpt Branko That is a JoJo, a forum troll used by Amarr whiners.
Myra2007 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.09.16 18:55:00 - [54] Edited by: Myra2007 on 16/09/2008 18:55:34 Originally by: P'uck When the Khanid boats got changed to missile spewers, they just did that to the t2 ships, right? Wouldnt it be a bit weird to have that t1 bc suddenly become a fat sacrilege? Huh? Like the brutix is a fat thorax/deimos, the ferox a fat moa/eagle like that? Yeah weird... What i find weird is that suddenly when it comes to t2 we're using a totally different weapons system. Would make much more sense to have some t1 ships to reflect this and maller/proph/punisher would be the perfect lineup to do this. You are right though that devs decided against it (probably to reduce workload not because its the best way to go) and thus its unlikely to ever see tq. On the other hand before the khanid buff people like you would probably show up and say "the devs made sac a laser platform, would be weird when a maller suddenly becomes a missile spewing abomination in its t2 variation". (edit: and it STILL happened just to state the obvious)
abrasive soap Trident Enterprises Elitist Cowards	Posted - 2008.09.16 20:42:00 - [55] Edited by: abrasive soap on 16/09/2008 20:44:48 Edited by: abrasive soap on 16/09/2008 20:44:25 6 launchers 7.5% HAM only rof/lvl 50 bw 50 dronebay or... 6 launchers 10% HAM only rof/lvl 25 bw and some random drone bay like the cane/drake's 30 or... 7 launchers 5% HAM only rof/lvl 25 bw and some random drone bay like the cane/drake's 30 or... 7 launchers 8% or so HAM only rof/lvl 0 bw 0 dronebay These all produce relatively the same damage at level 4 bc when compared to the drake even though they look overpowered on paper. The HAM only bonus sort of balances with the drake bonus because you are limited to HAMs only instead of a damage specific bonus on both HAMs and HMLs. The cpu and powergrid may need some tweaking in order to fit the HAMs and fit a 1600 plate (a HAM drake usually goes with 2 LSEs for buffer if I remember correctly which is roughly equivalent to a 1600 plate.) The cpu may need adjustment in order to fit BCUs. The slot layout is fairly good as of now so no need to change it. The 8 launchers and double bonus would be sort of overpowered unless the lows were reduced. It actually sounds like a good idea though because you have the brutix, a pure damage ship, so why not make the prophecy a high damage one time use ship as well? HAMs would be a nice change for the prophecy. The argument that the prophecy is balanced because the other tier 1 battlecruisers are broken is not really valid. The prophecy is pretty much overshadowed in all aspects by the harbinger which shouldn't be the case. Now we just need to get a thread for another tier 2 amarr battleship with torpedoes...
TYCONDEROGA Amarr EMPERIAL ARMOR	Posted - 2008.09.16 23:47:00 - [56] Originally by: Antoine Lefevre Seriously, no one gives a shit about missiles. Agreed He who defends Everything, Defends Nothing!
Coriander Rinne Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.09.17 00:50:00 - [57] Initial post: Hell no. Instead: Increase dronebay from 25 to 50. Bandwidth stays at 25.
InsanlyEvlPerson Gallente Night-Stalkers	Posted - 2008.09.17 03:44:00 - [58] Originally by: Coriander Rinne Initial post: Hell no. Instead: Increase dronebay from 25 to 50. Bandwidth stays at 25. this does nothing other than provide extra drones. optimal range bonus is what is reli needed... make it have less DPS, but more range an survivablity than the the harb, then it has a role. also, all the tier 1 BC's need some more armor/shield/grid/cpu/etc to make them at least worth flying over their massively better if somewhat different tier 2 counterparts.
Gneeznow Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.09.17 05:04:00 - [59] Originally by: InsanlyEvlPerson also, all the tier 1 BC's need some more armor/shield/grid/cpu/etc to make them at least worth flying over their massively better if somewhat different tier 2 counterparts. massively better might be an overstatement, the one thing that is certain is that tier 1 is 30 or 40 % cheaper than tier 2 and in my opinion is similar ''bang for buck'' with the exception of the ferox which sucks at everything
Rawr Cristina Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2008.09.17 05:29:00 - [60] Originally by: Gneeznow the one thing that is certain is that tier 1 is 30 or 40 % cheaper than tier 2 and in my opinion is similar ''bang for buck'' with the exception of the ferox which sucks at everything mhm, this pretty much. a 700 dps armour-tanking HAM spewing BC would not only make my Tier 2 BC obselete, but make the other Tier 1s look completely terrible in every way. If you get your Armour-tanking Drake, I want teh Ferox to be a Shield Tanking Harbinger or something - Infectious -

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