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Minimax Prime	Posted - 2008.09.17 05:16:00 - [1] Edited by: Minimax Prime on 17/09/2008 05:21:12 These logistics look so nice on paper and training them to 5 at the moment. I have some specific questions about how to use them in a proper way. I would appreciate if some experienced logistic pilots would share their knowledge and add points I am missing. Here my thoughts which actually are questions/guesses. Role -The Guardian and Basilisk can create cap out of thin air! Awesome! Relying on cap transfer frees slots for ECC and Tank. ThatÆs why I think they are best used in a poly logistic setup. -On Sisi I could not hit a speed-tanked matar logistic. Looks cool for roaming gangs to me. Sadly I havenÆt trained them yet. - The oneiros does the reping job/tanks almost as good as a guardian, is autarc on cap and is more flexible due to its med slots. -Carriers. If you donÆt use them as freighters, do you need a triage? You canÆt be remote reped while in that mode thatÆs why I am asking. The small logistics wonÆt work well without logistics 5 anyway. Gang -In a remote repping BS gang: The question is if the BS should fit DMG-mods at all. Kill fast or be remote reped? Is remote reping in larger gang engagements effective at all or will BS get alpha- poped anyway? What is a scenario where remote reping makes a difference in real pvp (not the tournament stuff). Fittings -Fitting only one ECCM did not improve my falcon resistance enough. I consider fitting 2 of em. That should result in a sensor strength of about 70. -Why care about sensor booster? You can target members of your fleet that ask for repair instantly anyway and gallente recons are not that common. -Is Cap an issue? Should a setup be capstable? I would think that even in a large battle you hardly run your repers 100%. Specific Oneiros fittings -Fittings for large gangs are imho a no-brainer. Either go for 40k EHP and lose 1/4 of your repair capability or go for the 20k EHP with 4 large amor repair II. -How to fit the oneiros for small roaming gangs? How does she survive that? Cloaking + pseudo-speedtank? What in the meds? If more than 2 large reppers are needed its probably time to warp anyway: Only fit 3 repers + smartbomb? I have no clue what would work. As you might have noticed: English is not my native language.
eXtas Atomic Battle Penguins	Posted - 2008.09.17 05:54:00 - [2] guardian and basilisk works extremly well with 2-3 working together. I think the pure tanked dps between 2 are about 2000 oneiros and scimitar works beter for solo work, scimitar is extremly fast nanoed and can still perma run some shield transfers so its the nano gang ship :) oneiros can do a lot, armor buffer tank, shield tank and/or nano :P its easy to get cap stable even with logistic 4 and with lvl 5 you even have several free slots :) my 2 oneiros setups are something like: 3x large RR, cloak mwd, 2x cap recharger, 2x whatever (remote sensorbooster/remote tracking/eccm) 800mm plate, eanm, exp hard, cpr 2x ccc 3x large RR, claok mwd, em shield, invfield, 2x lse 3x cpr, dcu 2x ccc they need to be capstable. and yes ships shpould have damagemods in RR gangs, best way to win is to kill enemys fast and get down the incomeing dps :) --------
EFT Warrior	Posted - 2008.09.17 06:38:00 - [3] Scimitar nano setup: Highs: Med Shield Transfer II x4 Mids: Med Shield Ext II x2 Invuln Field x1 10MN MWD II x1 Tracking Link x1 Lows: Capacitor Power Relay II x3 Damage Control x1 Rigs: CCC x2 Will permanently run everything indefinitely with my skills, with 26k EHP and 2400 m/s speed. You of course will never match my skills or fitting capability. If you want to change up the rigs or an invuln/shield extenders for more tracking links you can, but I recommend being able to perma-run. Circle the target of the target your repping at 30km or so; you'll never get out of rep range for a vagabond orbiting their target at 20km. I recommend bringing a 2nd scimitar pilot for uber spider tank (other faster ships love to use webs on you, like HACs and intys).
Maximum Powers	Posted - 2008.09.17 07:07:00 - [4] Originally by: EFT Warrior Scimitar nano setup: Highs: Med Shield Transfer II x4 Mids: Med Shield Ext II x2 Invuln Field x1 10MN MWD II x1 Tracking Link x1 Lows: Capacitor Power Relay II x3 Damage Control x1 Rigs: CCC x2 clearly a nano setup
slaminen2	Posted - 2008.09.17 09:52:00 - [5] Haha clearly, MWD = nanofit. I've considered training logistics myself but im not the most active player out there and just can't see myself in fleet with another logistics pilot regularly.
Evanade Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.09.17 09:57:00 - [6] One thing to remember wiht logistics is that if you are any bit serious about flying them, you should train the skill to level 5 as it almost doubles their effectiveness compared to level 4. Scimitar is the only one that can reliably be nanod, personally i dont like the oneiros as it does nothing the scimitar or guardian cant do. Basilisk & Guardian are awesomeness in pixel form, be sure to fit at least one midslot eccm and some buffer, best us is in pairs (remember to use watch list!!). Use afterburners to get decent speed but save cap, get some range to the fight, make use of the range that large reppers give you. Keep moving at all times, you have a low sig so BS'es will not hit you for much, use it! Erm..what else? Play with it alot build up experience, your fellow gangmates will love you for it. --------------------------- sok alt - main got banzored
Mephistophilis Domination. Cosmic Anomalies	Posted - 2008.09.17 10:15:00 - [7] Originally by: Evanade One thing to remember wiht logistics is that if you are any bit serious about flying them, you should train the skill to level 5 as it almost doubles their effectiveness compared to level 4. Scimitar is the only one that can reliably be nanod, personally i dont like the oneiros as it does nothing the scimitar or guardian cant do. Basilisk & Guardian are awesomeness in pixel form, be sure to fit at least one midslot eccm and some buffer, best us is in pairs (remember to use watch list!!). Use afterburners to get decent speed but save cap, get some range to the fight, make use of the range that large reppers give you. Keep moving at all times, you have a low sig so BS'es will not hit you for much, use it! Erm..what else? Play with it alot build up experience, your fellow gangmates will love you for it. This tbh. You have to keep your speed up for sure, if you hit a speedy gang they'll be all over you like a cheep suit I've used the Gallente one and fitted a cloak, only used once with my alt and erm lost it due to a horrible mistake on my behalf. I think your gang will love you if you do it right
Jonna Andromedae	Posted - 2008.09.17 11:29:00 - [8] Edited by: Jonna Andromedae on 17/09/2008 11:29:33 Originally by: Minimax Prime Edited by: Minimax Prime on 17/09/2008 05:42:48 Specific Oneiros fittings -Fittings for large gangs are imho a no-brainer. Either go for 40k EHP and lose 1/4 of your repair capability or go for the 20k EHP with 4 large amor repair II. -How to fit the oneiros for small roaming gangs? How does she survive that? Cloaking + pseudo-speedtank? What in the meds? If more than 2 large reppers are needed its probably time to warp anyway: Only fit 3 repers + smartbomb? I have no clue what would work. As you might have noticed: English is not my native language. USE THE MEDIUM REPPERS ON LOGISTIC SHIPS FFS FOR BETTER EFFIENCY!
Hardtail Red Dawn Empire	Posted - 2008.09.17 12:19:00 - [9] Originally by: Jonna Andromedae Edited by: Jonna Andromedae on 17/09/2008 11:29:33 Originally by: Minimax Prime Edited by: Minimax Prime on 17/09/2008 05:42:48 Specific Oneiros fittings -Fittings for large gangs are imho a no-brainer. Either go for 40k EHP and lose 1/4 of your repair capability or go for the 20k EHP with 4 large amor repair II. -How to fit the oneiros for small roaming gangs? How does she survive that? Cloaking + pseudo-speedtank? What in the meds? If more than 2 large reppers are needed its probably time to warp anyway: Only fit 3 repers + smartbomb? I have no clue what would work. As you might have noticed: English is not my native language. USE THE MEDIUM REPPERS ON LOGISTIC SHIPS FFS FOR BETTER EFFIENCY! no
Evanade Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.09.17 12:58:00 - [10] Medium reppers have same efficiency, inadequate range and inadequate rep amount to work on logistics ships. All your highs should be filled with large remote reps/cap transfers, if you have any highs spare you're doing something wrong and need to change your fit. Example fittings for Basilisk and Guardian: [Basilisk, Pwnage by Sok] Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II 10MN Afterburner II Conjunctive Gravimetric ECCM Scanning Array I Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Large Shield Extender II Large Energy Transfer Array II Large Shield Transporter II Large Shield Transporter II Large Shield Transporter II Large Shield Transporter II Large Shield Transporter II Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Requires either a single faction RCU, or 1% cpu implant to fit. Maximum possible RR, CCC's are optional but help you regain cap in between warps and jumps. With two of these you can feed each other infinicap. [Guardian, Pwnage by Sok] Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Internal Force Field Array I RADAR Firewall Conjunctive Radar ECCM Scanning Array I 10MN Afterburner II Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Large Energy Transfer Array II Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I The Guardian is a little more difficult to fit because it is completely strained on both CPU and grid. It's impossible to fit a full rack of T2 LRAR's without sacrificing every bit of EHP you might get, so dont bother. Having to stick with named mods makes it quite a bit more expensive than the basilisk, but again, two of these can sustain each other forever. --------------------------- sok alt - main got banzored
Orion GUardian Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.17 13:51:00 - [11] why would logistics 5 double the efficiancy? its just about 15% of the bonus more, am I missing something?
Evanade Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.09.17 13:55:00 - [12] Originally by: Orion GUardian why would logistics 5 double the efficiancy? its just about 15% of the bonus more, am I missing something? Yes you are. Do the maths again. --------------------------- sok alt - main got banzored
Evanade Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.09.17 14:05:00 - [13] Originally by: Orion GUardian why would logistics 5 double the efficiancy? its just about 15% of the bonus more, am I missing something? It took me awhile, but i found it --------------------------- sok alt - main got banzored
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.09.17 14:18:00 - [14] Originally by: Evanade Medium reppers have same efficiency, inadequate range and inadequate rep amount to work on logistics ships. All your highs should be filled with large remote reps/cap transfers, if you have any highs spare you're doing something wrong and need to change your fit. Example fittings for Basilisk and Guardian: [Basilisk, Pwnage by Sok] Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II 10MN Afterburner II Conjunctive Gravimetric ECCM Scanning Array I Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Large Shield Extender II Large Energy Transfer Array II Large Shield Transporter II Large Shield Transporter II Large Shield Transporter II Large Shield Transporter II Large Shield Transporter II Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Requires either a single faction RCU, or 1% cpu implant to fit. Maximum possible RR, CCC's are optional but help you regain cap in between warps and jumps. With two of these you can feed each other infinicap. Very nice fitting - although really heavy on the logistics skill tree. I plan on one day working on log V - but not till I get a couple more shooty ships first! I'm more of a casual logistics guy, and this is what I've got for someone with more modest logistics skills (at IV instead of V). Power Diagnostic Unit II Capacitor Power Relay II 10MN Afterburner II Prototype/Best Named Gravimetric ECCM 2x Cap recharger II Large Shield Extender II 5x S95 Large Shield Transporter Large 'Regard' I Power Projector 2x CCC Not as tanky - but it allows a full top rack - and is cap stable with 1 other basilisk. A lot less demanding on skills - its a good start towards working towards your fit I believe. I've been looking for good pvp logistics setups and I'm glad to see this thread. __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
Evanade Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.09.17 14:24:00 - [15] Aye it's fairly skill intensive, so not for newer players. I trained it on an alt for a reason ;) Many of the skills needed for it are very useful in other areas as well, though, like grid upgrades 5 for slightly less cpu use on certain mods and the ability to fit RCU-II's. All in all its a fairly specialist role, but one which can really make or break a fight. Being not much of a killmail-***** myself, i really like it. --------------------------- sok alt - main got banzored
Minimax Prime	Posted - 2008.09.17 14:25:00 - [16] Thank you for sharing your experience. Keep this going. I have some more questions. - Why do you use CCC rigs? Well, they are cheaper than the remote repair rigs but also less effective. - As mentioned before: Do logistics have an impact in BS gangs? I was in a remote reping gang recently and I felt that my reping did not delay the death of focused targets significantly. In what kind of gang do you fly them? My fear is that in 15+ BS fights they are next to useless as the focus dies too fast? - How do you get a killmail? *g
Evanade Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.09.17 14:28:00 - [17] Originally by: Minimax Prime Thank you for sharing your experience. Keep this going. I have some more questions. - Why do you use CCC rigs? Well, they are cheaper than the remote repair rigs but also less effective. - As mentioned before: Do logistics have an impact in BS gangs? I was in a remote reping gang recently and I felt that my reping did not delay the death of focused targets significantly. In what kind of gang do you fly them? My fear is that in 15+ BS fights they are next to useless as the focus dies too fast? - How do you get a killmail? *g As i said, the rigs are optional they dont help the fitting in any way as its cap stable already with a single transfer on it, but they help you regian cap between jumps and warps and when youre being neuted etc. No RR rigs exist for shield hardeners and you dont need the ones for armour as you will have enough cap anyway (unless you got Logistics lvl 4 but then i wouldnt advise flying a Guardian as its pretty shite) Logistics can have a tremendous impact on RR-BS gangs--they can feed huge amounts of cap and will easioly rep as much as 2-3 BS'es while being much smaller, more mobile and not eating cap 800 charges like twinkeys. --------------------------- sok alt - main got banzored
Ruciza Minmatar The Feminists	Posted - 2008.09.17 17:53:00 - [18] Edited by: Ruciza on 17/09/2008 17:54:20 Originally by: Minimax Prime My fear is that in 15+ BS fights they are next to useless as the focus dies too fast? You need enough logistics and the target needs a buffer tank that can withstand a single volley. But it will be hard to get so many skilled logistics pilots together. (Say 4 or 5). Logistics is a management problem, not a technical one.
Unforgivin Caldari TEAM GAY	Posted - 2008.09.17 18:12:00 - [19] Edited by: Unforgivin on 17/09/2008 18:14:22 I love logistics, problem was finding others that liked flying them also, in the end i ended up trying to two box with my alt and just ended up getting ra.ped 10 ways from sunday. I really like armor tanking remote armor/eccming nueting ravens plus guardians with remote eccm,cap and armor transfer, get a few of these combos going i think it would be interesting to see how it goes.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.09.17 18:14:00 - [20] Logistics 5 makes a huge difference to these ships. Going from -60% cap to -75% cap is a massive improvement. Don't use medium reps - 2 med reps are basically the same or worse than a large in every way. Basilisks and Guardians are nice, but because they trade 2 meds/lows for 2 highs, means they're actually not so hot when they're solo. Always aim to use these with at least one buddy, and they're pretty awesome. 2 energy transfers will be enough to keep cap stable (1 if you're on logistics 5) but bear in mind that as soon as you get jammed you're both going to get capped out really fast. Oneiros and Scimitar do well for mids and lows, as the cost of less peak rep - but frankly running 6 reps is insanely hard to manage anyway, so don't sweat it. Use those lows/mids for utility mods like speed, ECCM or buffer tank. Either way, you can expect to be primary, so you should be aiming to be at a good long range from fighting - you have 70km to work with though, so use it. They start to kick in when you're running a repair intensive gang, or are already past about 5 people in gang. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Liang Nuren No Salvation	Posted - 2008.09.17 18:19:00 - [21] Nice thread. Thanks for the tips, Sok. I've flown some logistics work (Basilisk and Oneiros)... I can fly the Scimitar, but i haven't done so very extensively. I need moar logistics pilots in my corp. -Liang --
Felix Dzerzhinsky Caldari Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2008.09.17 19:49:00 - [22] Originally by: EFT Warrior Scimitar nano setup: Highs: Med Shield Transfer II x4 Mids: Med Shield Ext II x2 Invuln Field x1 10MN MWD II x1 Tracking Link x1 Lows: Capacitor Power Relay II x3 Damage Control x1 Rigs: CCC x2 Will permanently run everything indefinitely with my skills, with 26k EHP and 2400 m/s speed. You of course will never match my skills or fitting capability. If you want to change up the rigs or an invuln/shield extenders for more tracking links you can, but I recommend being able to perma-run. Circle the target of the target your repping at 30km or so; you'll never get out of rep range for a vagabond orbiting their target at 20km. I recommend bringing a 2nd scimitar pilot for uber spider tank (other faster ships love to use webs on you, like HACs and intys). fail setup. try 2 lrg shield, drop the invul, drop the shield extender, and the tracking link, fit 2 polycarbs, drop the dcu. . .as an eft warrior, you should be more creative. My schimitar (Zerv special) is a perma 2 lrg shield tranfer, duel polycarbed, 10 nm mwd perma running setup. . .it requires logistics 5 and perfect shield emissions and cap skills. . . try again ---- GO BLUE!!
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.09.17 21:25:00 - [23] Originally by: Liang Nuren Nice thread. Thanks for the tips, Sok. I've flown some logistics work (Basilisk and Oneiros)... I can fly the Scimitar, but i haven't done so very extensively. I need moar logistics pilots in my corp. -Liang Indeed. I'm increasingly realising that one logistics is vaguely handy, but short lived as you attract gunfire almost as well as a falcon does. But with less range, and no ability to cloak. Bring a friend along though, to remote rep you and all that changes, and you get to enjoy the feeling of ~2kdps of tank. (And a low sig radius) -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?

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