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New Garde
g8nk3d
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Posted - 2008.09.17 18:13:00 -
[1]
At what point would you say gunnery skills have been trained sufficiently to have a real effect in PVP with battleships?
For instance if a pilot had large hybrid turrets trained to level 4 and Gallente BS to level 4, along with all the secondary skills such as Surgical Strike, Rapid Firing, Sharpshooting and etc trained to the same level, would you feel that is enough training to effectively dish out damage? I know that more is better and that T2 is the name of the game these days. But for non large T2 users, at what point are you really competitive? Thanks.
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Mona X
Caldari
Polish Task Forces
C0VEN
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Posted - 2008.09.17 18:32:00 -
[2]
Ask your FC if he want battleship with T1 guns. Most of them will send you to support, but in younger corps without many experienced pilots every gun counts.
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Stuckwtf
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Posted - 2008.09.18 02:20:00 -
[3]
It totally depends on the fleet. There's approx a 13% DPS difference between best-named-large-gun-4 and T2-Blaster-Spec-4 pilots. That's a big difference for a 1v1 but not a whole lot of difference for a fleet. The deciding factor will probably be whether you are expected to sit at 0 on gate and hit out to 27km with null or not.
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Kazuma Saruwatari
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.09.18 05:09:00 -
[4]
It truly depends on where the guns end up doing. If you're expected to be part of the hammer in a fleet fight, every DPS point counts, and as such T2 rules.
Same for 1v1, more damage = faster resolution of combat = quicker getting to that all-important epeen-waggling
If you end up in support, DPS is not a primary issue as locking and making sure you get your damage ASAP to the support/anti-support targets. Even ending up a rung down from the front lines is no laughing matter when the shit hits the fan.
Gang PvP is also the same. Even T1-level damage adds up if you have a couple of buddies.
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Winnry
Heretic Militia
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Posted - 2008.09.18 05:26:00 -
[5]
The issue of range is just as important as DPS. Without adequate range, u will never be able to inflict damage. Most fights in the eve universe usually occur in the 10-30km range be it pvp or pve.
Having 10km optimal range vs 5km makes all the difference in the world.
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Arkadrell
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Posted - 2008.09.18 06:12:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Winnry
The issue of range is just as important as DPS. Without adequate range, u will never be able to inflict damage. Most fights in the eve universe usually occur in the 10-30km range be it pvp or pve.
Having 10km optimal range vs 5km makes all the difference in the world.
QFT
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Orion GUardian
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.09.18 21:58:00 -
[7]
Say with Missile launchers its better to have faction launchers than T2s after all 8because they outfit the spec skill at 5] is it similar with T2 Guns or do T2 Guns rock the faction ones?
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Malcanis
RuffRyders
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.09.18 22:16:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Orion GUardian
Say with Missile launchers its better to have faction launchers than T2s after all 8because they outfit the spec skill at 5] is it similar with T2 Guns or do T2 Guns rock the faction ones?
Compare and Contrast
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Orion GUardian
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.09.18 22:18:00 -
[9]
I was talking about launchers and turrets...
So you mean the T2 turret ammo is worth it?
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Malcanis
RuffRyders
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.09.18 22:23:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Malcanis on 18/09/2008 22:24:34
Originally by: Orion GUardian
I was talking about launchers and turrets...
So you mean the T2 turret ammo is worth it?
Yes - for long range ammo. For missiles: not at all.
EDIT: However T2 launchers are about 1/20th - 1/40th of the price of faction ones. Candidly, that pretty quickly becomes worth a couple of weeks of training.
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Orion GUardian
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.09.18 22:28:00 -
[11]
I meant: faction launchers have better RoF than T2 ones with spec 5
Are factioinb turrest better than T2 ones like that or are they just more expensive?
I dont use that higth turrets yet was a missiles user until now
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Malcanis
RuffRyders
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.09.18 22:39:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Malcanis on 18/09/2008 22:41:38
IIRC Faction launchers are slightly better than Spec 5 T2 and faction turrets are slightly worse. Best named have the same base stats as T2 but don't get the specialisation bonus.
For PvE, use faction, since the higher cost is pretty much moot and the lower fitting requirements are really handy. Exception: I hear that Javelin torps are pretty nice on Golems.
For PvP use T2, since you will certainly lose your ship sooner or later, and T2 ships usually have more generous PG/CPU. And some T2 ammo is definitely significantly better than even faction.
EDIT: Wait, the one useful T2 missile is Javelin HAMs. And maybe Precision Lights if the idea of doing tragic DPS to nano ships appeals to you (instead of doing no DPS with T1/faction or, alternatively, training for a Zealot and doing brutal DPS)
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Orion GUardian
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.09.18 23:28:00 -
[13]
so the same things in launchers apply to turrets? [faction/T2]
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Kazuma Saruwatari
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.09.19 09:38:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Orion GUardian
so the same things in launchers apply to turrets? [faction/T2]
You're trying to compare two different weapon systems here. Missiles have their uses at the T1, named, or T2 level. Same goes for turrets, though more or less you'll see more T2 used in turrets due to instant damage delivery, and overall DPS output.
Missiles have their own advantages at T2, like precision versions that hit smaller/faster targets more accurately, or rage versions for more damage.
Apples and Oranges comparison, really.
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Orion GUardian
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.09.21 23:22:00 -
[15]
ok I see, its a mistake on my side.....ok I quote something read in the assembly hall as a Question for thee:
Federation Navy Antimatter charges do:
* 55.2 damage
* -50% optimal range
Void T2 short-range Blaster charges do
* 56 damage
* -25% optimal
* -50% tracking
* -50% falloff
* +25% capacitor use.
Just an example, why would I use the T2 version? [dont looked up a comparism for long range yet but anyway] I need T2 guns to fire T2 ammo, but if I would use the faction one here [I suppose, T2 has only an advantage at a little longer range against a very slow target] I could use Faction turrets and erm....save skilling time.
What am I missing?
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Jethro Jechonias
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.09.22 03:32:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Orion GUardian
Just an example, why would I use the T2 version?
The short answer is that you wouldn't.
With the short range tech 2 turret ammo, there is not enough benefit to offset the penalties when compared with faction ammo.
With long range, you might, but with short range, there is little point on having tech 2 ammo.
The issue has been raised with CCP, but I don't know what they are planning to do about it.
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Orion GUardian
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.09.22 10:39:00 -
[17]
Yeah that is where I had the info from....so having T2 Turrets has the only advantage of being cheaper than faction and only slightly worse?
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