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One Titan Too Many?

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Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.09.18 19:57:00 - [61] The number of Titans is a pretty poor reflection of the effect they have on 0.0 warfare. Generally they don't get used much in combat, and I am sure that death by DD would be statistically insignificant in terms of losses in 0.0 Sure there are lots of them (81 out of 230k+ players), but not so many as that people are willing to throw them away. When that day comes they will probably have already become obsolete. Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
Plim Gallente Oursulaert Technology Institute	Posted - 2008.09.18 20:49:00 - [62] It's sillyness. Titans were meant to be extremely rare capital ships for alliances. I stopped playing the game about a year ago, then came back three weeks ago, and now there are dozens of them. It can't possibly be what CCP intended. Rudolf: "I was sworn to absolute secrecy by Santa Claus."
Drykor Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.09.18 21:45:00 - [63] Originally by: Avon The number of Titans is a pretty poor reflection of the effect they have on 0.0 warfare. Generally they don't get used much in combat, and I am sure that death by DD would be statistically insignificant in terms of losses in 0.0 Sure there are lots of them (81 out of 230k+ players), but not so many as that people are willing to throw them away. When that day comes they will probably have already become obsolete. You know just as well as most people that number of deaths isn't significant compared to their tactical advantage.
Varus Riaz Gallente Decorum Inc Tygris Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.18 22:30:00 - [64] I'm in favor of putting in upkeep costs for them.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.09.18 22:45:00 - [65] Originally by: supr3m3justic3 Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: Alz Shado Edited by: Alz Shado on 18/09/2008 15:39:40 It's pretty clear that "Supercaps" are the end game for fleet combat, so to avoid Mudflation why not just move the goalposts in a different direction? No, they are not. And I think many people who actually take part in Fleet Combat will actually admit that the Battleship is the central unit in most fleets. that stand no chance against a DD Yes, because it is impossible to get a BS over 70K EHP. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Ethen Bejorn Pestilent Industries Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.09.18 23:02:00 - [66] Titans suck. DDs suck. Jump bridges suck. A bunch of idiotic decisions by the "new" CCP dev team. Thanks for ruining our game.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.09.18 23:05:00 - [67] Originally by: Ethen Bejorn Titans suck. DDs suck. Jump bridges suck. A bunch of idiotic decisions by the "new" CCP dev team. Thanks for ruining our game. RMR was certainly a recent expansion. Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Havohej Minmatar Comply Or Die G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.09.18 23:10:00 - [68] Originally by: Somealt Ofmine A magazine focused only on eve-o with a bunch of op-ed pieces that could just as well be posted here and that end up getting linked here to promote them seems a little redundant to me. There'll be more than OP:ED, give it time! As to whether it became a nano-whine in the middle: while I can understand how one would reach that initial reaction, the subject of nano ships itself was secondary to the idea that some things might not be as well thought out as they could/should be before being implemented on Tranquility. I do not present that idea as a perceived fact, only a possibility. In another article that I might submit to EVE-Mag in the future, you'll see me make an entirely different suggestion about the nano "issue" (I use that word loosely in this case). Please don't get distracted from the primary focus by what was meant only as an aside to illustrate an example of the idea immediately following it. Originally by: Shadowsword For an article that speak about balance, trying to make it look like those who objected to nano ships were just whining noobs, espescially when admitting just after that ludicrous speed is out of whack, is pretty moronic. I appreciate your feedback and it is nice to have a response from somebody who fought in The First Great War (as it'll eventually be called - surely another Great War will erupt in the future!). The Jump Bridge networks were mentioned earlier in the thread and might well be overpowered - I have no personal opinion regarding them, myself. They're certainly an advantage, but whether their benefit to an alliance's defence of space is more than the requirements (sov 3, isn't it?) justify is a topic for another thread. Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: Alz Shado Edited by: Alz Shado on 18/09/2008 15:39:40 It's pretty clear that "Supercaps" are the end game for fleet combat, so to avoid Mudflation why not just move the goalposts in a different direction? No, they are not. And I think many people who actually take part in Fleet Combat will actually admit that the Battleship is the central unit in most fleets. An Anarchyyt is right, here. In what I consider 'conventional' fleet battles, the battleship is still the backbone. It seems to be only in fights against the massive 0.0 sovereigns (BoB, NC, -A-, Goons(?)) that you see humongous capital fleets (at least, in my limited experience). I wasn't trying to suggest that sub-capital fleets are entirely useless because titans exist; they're not and never will be. As to doomsdays being impossible to tank for a sub-capital ship as a couple of people suggested, that's just not true. Heavy Interdictors and battleships can be fitted to survive a doomsday. There are probably battlecruisers that can do it, as well. I don't know if HACs can do it or not, but I'd expect a Command Ship could. It's not that difficult to survive a single doomsday, especially if you're at or close to full hitpoints when it goes off. When HACs and Recons and Battlecruisers are the most numerous support ships in a fleet battle and when some or all of the battleships may have already taken damage, a properly set up doomsday detonation can have a massive effect. On the other hand, it's been proven in the last week that it's also possible for a titan pilot to be completely incompetent and negate the effect of his own doomsday through poor usage. Again, I just want to say that EVE-Mag isn't claiming to know any solution for the perceived issue surrounding the titan. Indeed, it is only one writer's opinion that there is an issue at all. The feedback has been positive so far and that's great, but for me the best feedback is the stuff coming from the major alliances who use titans on a weekly or daily basis for both combat and logistics - experienced opinions are the most helpful in any discussion! Originally by: CCP Explorer You can still steal their stuff.
Rhaegor Stormborn Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.09.18 23:13:00 - [69] It was an okay article until you started to whine about the impending nano nerf.
Tarke Mercurialis Inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.09.18 23:14:00 - [70] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Those titans are pop material the minute one corporation/alliance decides "let's pop 'em". Yes, it's that simple. Hell, even the forums could pop the titans out and make it so costly to build 'em, that noone would. Played with one of the programs and based on it. You would need 100 titans using the DD to get through the shields.
Havohej Minmatar Comply Or Die G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.09.18 23:29:00 - [71] Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn It was an okay article until you started to whine about the impending nano nerf. You'll notice if you refresh the page a few times that one of my sigs features the Wolf, yet I don't have a sig featuring the Vagabond. The nano nerf as described in CCP Nozh's dev blog was by default a huge buff to the Assault Frigate ship class. I'm not "against" the nano nerf. I mentioned it to illustrate a precedent for CCP's game design department maybe not thinking things all the way through and/or not considering/testing all likely possibilities before implementing something on TQ. Just as they should've considered the someone might take a cruiser with skill level based speed bonus and fit it with a MWD, overdrives, nanos, polycarbs and use expensive implants, they should have considered that on a long enough timeline everybody would have dozens of titans. Anyway, if you disagree that the nano nerf was poorly thought out (which is not the subject of this article nor the accompanying thread), please feel free to post a thread about it (or just contribute to one of the many existing threads, like the one in Assembly Hall which is in favor of the nano nerf - it only has 750-ish supports compared to the thread against the nano nerf having 1500-ish supports, so it could use a little help ). Also, buy some ISK about it. Originally by: CCP Explorer You can still steal their stuff.
Rhaegor Stormborn Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.09.18 23:51:00 - [72] Originally by: Havohej Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn It was an okay article until you started to whine about the impending nano nerf. You'll notice if you refresh the page a few times that one of my sigs features the Wolf, yet I don't have a sig featuring the Vagabond. The nano nerf as described in CCP Nozh's dev blog was by default a huge buff to the Assault Frigate ship class. I'm not "against" the nano nerf. I mentioned it to illustrate a precedent for CCP's game design department maybe not thinking things all the way through and/or not considering/testing all likely possibilities before implementing something on TQ. Just as they should've considered the someone might take a cruiser with skill level based speed bonus and fit it with a MWD, overdrives, nanos, polycarbs and use expensive implants, they should have considered that on a long enough timeline everybody would have dozens of titans. Anyway, if you disagree that the nano nerf was poorly thought out (which is not the subject of this article nor the accompanying thread), please feel free to post a thread about it (or just contribute to one of the many existing threads, like the one in Assembly Hall which is in favor of the nano nerf - it only has 750-ish supports compared to the thread against the nano nerf having 1500-ish supports, so it could use a little help ). Also, buy some ISK about it. No one cares how many people support or are against the nano nerf. It is bad for the game and is out of control, and CCP knows it is due for a nerf. Your article is about titans, but yet you used it to whine about nanos. It came across as imature and unprofessional and it basically made your entire "article" look like any number of whine posts on the forums. And to your last comment, maybe I will. GTCs selling for 650m ISK now, lol.
Havohej Minmatar Comply Or Die G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.09.18 23:56:00 - [73] Edited by: Havohej on 18/09/2008 23:56:28 Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn No one cares how many people support or are against the nano nerf. It is bad for the game and is out of control, and CCP knows it is due for a nerf. Your article is about titans, but yet you used it to whine about nanos. It came across as imature and unprofessional and it basically made your entire "article" look like any number of whine posts on the forums. And to your last comment, maybe I will. GTCs selling for 650m ISK now, lol. If you don't understand what the words "illustrate" and "precedent" mean, mate, I can't help you. Anyways, thanks for the read and the feedback! Originally by: CCP Explorer You can still steal their stuff.
Kai Zion The Zion Accounts	Posted - 2008.09.18 23:59:00 - [74] You guys writing for E-Mag are doing a great job, keep it up. Eve needs more op-ed journalism.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.09.19 00:22:00 - [75] Originally by: Drykor You know just as well as most people that number of deaths isn't significant compared to their tactical advantage. And yet people focus on the destructive power of a titan, and cite it as a balance problem. Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
Centauris Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.20 06:09:00 - [76] Edited by: Centauris on 20/09/2008 06:09:05 26 titans to Doomsday your average capfleet into pods :) Dont know how many to kill another titan though :P TC4LIFE I Am The LOL Generation
Vabjekf	Posted - 2008.09.20 06:57:00 - [77] all capital ships were a mistake (except those that mine veldspars)
Anahid Brutus TunkbwahCorp GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.09.21 15:35:00 - [78] hey make dd like a siege mod, problem solved until someone puts 60 on a cyno jammer ok so remove dds entirely since no one likes them
sg3s Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.09.21 15:39:00 - [79] Yeah the state of titans is getting over the top, a fix is needed. Originally by: Tarminic Because even when EVE sucks, it sucks less than every other MMO out there.
Gallente Price	Posted - 2008.09.21 15:39:00 - [80] Titans were a cool idea; but, a big mistake which will need to be addressed at some point in the near future. I have faith that CCP is looking at it.
Von Kleist Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.09.21 15:44:00 - [81] Originally by: Skogen Gump At least there are entities like the Star Fraction who are willing to do something different with a Titan. There is some hope after all Yes, lets all thank star fraction for bringing RP'ing to a new, respectable level.
VCBee2356	Posted - 2008.09.21 15:57:00 - [82] Originally by: Von Kleist Originally by: Skogen Gump At least there are entities like the Star Fraction who are willing to do something different with a Titan. There is some hope after all Yes, lets all thank star fraction for bringing RP'ing to a new, respectable level. Quotin' dis.
Goon Maps	Posted - 2008.09.21 16:13:00 - [83] Too many titans, lol. We've been saying this was going to be the case for a while.

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