EVE Search - Most Feared HAC

All Channels

Ships and Modules

Most Feared HAC

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 [2] :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Kazuma Saruwatari Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.18 20:21:00 - [31] I've seen a pair of Zealot and Ishtar hold off a Vaga, Muuin, and another Zealot long enough (30sec) for a support fleet to come in and lock them down. Provided that the support fleet consisted of my then-newbie self (in a T1 cruiser, throwaway decoy tackler), an inty, and some T1 frigates, it was the little breeze in the wind that knocked down the rock off its pedestal and down the cliff. Today's nanoage, I see Vaga's disengaging when Zealots show up. Zealot's in my training plan, as well, just saying. -
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.09.18 20:48:00 - [32] Originally by: MalVortex Edited by: MalVortex on 18/09/2008 19:21:55 Edited by: MalVortex on 18/09/2008 19:21:33 Originally by: Derek Sigres Originally by: eXtas Missile damage stuffs your numbers here are wrong. Precision Lights work until the 6500m/s barrier (and only then against low tank targets. thats -74% damage dealt IIRC @ 6500m/s). For precision heavy and precision cruise your break point is a mere 3500m/s. Similarly, it doesn't matter if the inty is chasing you or not or anything like that. The missile damage formula looks at the worst case scenario of sigres or absolute speed, it doesn't care about transversal velocity. An inty burning towards a zealot MWDing away in a line will get face****d, the cerb wont hit it at all. Not that the cerbs a bad ship - your figures/scenarios for missile damage is just wrong is all. You are somewhat mistaken in your assumption. If a Cerberus does NOT use Flare rigs you are entirely correct - 6500m/s (the speed the missile flies) represents essentially your max speed. With the rigs your explosion velocity is fairly substantial, about 5500 m/s with my skills and just shy of 6km/s with maxed skills. Also, the 6.5km/s threshold is not exactly a threshold - all you have to do is force your target to pursue you. Anything you can concievably kill with an AML cerberus is going to certainly be faster than you of course, but if you wait for the correct moment in an orbit pattern or flight plan your own MWD can push you far enough that they will be forced to do a direct approach. And as far as webs go, yes a web on your foe would foil your evil plan, but I carry a web as well meaning foiling plan A rapidly generates a much worse scenario for the would be target. When I am speaking of a damage threshold, it essentially only really exists when a target can outrun the missile completely. The double flare rigged Cerberus can damage targets moving much faster than the missile travels, provided the missile can make contact. This is why I am talking about the approach - it has nothing to do with transversal and everything with bringing the target to the missile since the missile cannot catch the target.
Ralara Caldari Vivicide	Posted - 2008.09.18 20:56:00 - [33] Originally by: CosmicWillow Hi All, I am thinking about training for one, just wonder which HAC people considered most dangerous and why. Please take note that I am asking specifically about HAC and not Recon or HIC as those are on my training list after HAC Thanks in advance for your help! Depends on what range. < 5,000 meters? Deimos :D More than that, a Vaga, I guess. --
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.09.18 21:02:00 - [34] Originally by: Ralara Originally by: CosmicWillow Hi All, I am thinking about training for one, just wonder which HAC people considered most dangerous and why. Please take note that I am asking specifically about HAC and not Recon or HIC as those are on my training list after HAC Thanks in advance for your help! Depends on what range. < 5,000 meters? Deimos :D More than that, a Vaga, I guess. Personally, I'd say the most FEARSOME HAC's are the Sacriledge and the Ishtar. Both can point and tank fairly well and both can deliver staggering damage at speed (currently). Most HAC's are as effective as wet paper bags when nano'd solo - indeed I think a Vagabond is hard pressed to kill much of anything if left to it's own devices. Sure it can kill T1 cruisers and overconfident intys but that's no contest for the most part anyway. The Zealot may have a brutally effective long ranged firepower but it won't be pointing at range and if it's nanoing it isn't exactly going to be either sturdy, cap stable or entirely effective. The Diemos may have the ability to deliver staggering damage at point blank range but it certainly comes with a huge dilemma of closing range (and then hoping it significantly outguns it's target). The Eagle may have fantastic reach but it simply isn't doing a lot of damage. Most of the HAC's are anything but fearsome or effective by themselves. When they come in swarms, that's when I worry, and to be honest it doesn't matter what HAC you choose when you have enough of them - they'll all kill you just the same.
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.18 21:09:00 - [35] Originally by: Gypsio III Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: BiggestT Originally by: Spectre3353 Everything that is NOT a Cerb or Muninn. ignore him, their both good ships. After flying a cerb, getting into a Sacri is like getting out of prison. That's funny, I fly a Cerb and the prospect of switching to a Sac sounds like jumping into prison to me. I won't be able to do any of the things that make the Cerb great in a Sac, and other ships can perform the Sac's roles. To each their own.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.09.18 21:13:00 - [36] Originally by: Malcanis To each their own. I think that getting out of the caldari ship lineup in general is like getting released from prison. For the most part the ships only work well when designed for a specific tactical niche on the battlefield - and so long as they stay in that narrow space they are fantastically effective. Other races have quite a few generalist ships that work fairly well in most common PVP scenarios. But, I have faith that at some point I'll find a setup that can make the Scorpion the jack of all trades solo PVP ship the caldari always wanted but have long been denied. After that I plan on finally working out how to turn lead into gold.
MalVortex Reaper Industries Eternal Rapture	Posted - 2008.09.18 21:47:00 - [37] Edited by: MalVortex on 18/09/2008 21:47:45 Originally by: Derek Sigres You are somewhat mistaken in your assumption. If a Cerberus does NOT use Flare rigs you are entirely correct - 6500m/s (the speed the missile flies) represents essentially your max speed. With the rigs your explosion velocity is fairly substantial, about 5500 m/s with my skills and just shy of 6km/s with maxed skills. Also, the 6.5km/s threshold is not exactly a threshold - all you have to do is force your target to pursue you. Anything you can concievably kill with an AML cerberus is going to certainly be faster than you of course, but if you wait for the correct moment in an orbit pattern or flight plan your own MWD can push you far enough that they will be forced to do a direct approach. And as far as webs go, yes a web on your foe would foil your evil plan, but I carry a web as well meaning foiling plan A rapidly generates a much worse scenario for the would be target. When I am speaking of a damage threshold, it essentially only really exists when a target can outrun the missile completely. The double flare rigged Cerberus can damage targets moving much faster than the missile travels, provided the missile can make contact. This is why I am talking about the approach - it has nothing to do with transversal and everything with bringing the target to the missile since the missile cannot catch the target. yea... no... Heres your max skilled precision missile explosion velocity vs. ship speed. % is % warhead yield transfered to target pre-resistance. Light Missiles: 4500m/s vs: 5000m/s: 89.48393168% 5500m/s: 64.11803884% 6000m/s: 36.78794412% 6500m/s: 16.90133154% 7000m/s: 6.217652402% 7500m/s: 1.831563889% 8000m/s: 0.432023947% Heavy + Cruise Missiles: 1500m/s vs: 2000m/s: 89.48393168% 2500m/s: 64.11803884% 3000m/s: 36.78794412% 3500m/s: 16.90133154% 4000m/s: 6.217652402% 4500m/s: 1.831563889% 5000m/s: 0.432023947% Oh, and the launch velocity of a missile from a cerb is always higher than its explosion velocity. By a lot. Only time you'll ever get into trouble is Precision ASM on a ship with 2 or more flare rigs an no explosion velocity and no velocity rigs. The amount of times you should ever fit a ship like this is zero (and the only ship i can imagine this fit on is a 7x ASM drake. Which would be the most terrible idea ever).
Trader Jjoe	Posted - 2008.09.18 21:53:00 - [38] Actually, I know they are recons, and not HAC's - but the curse followed by the rapier. Curse + rapier = oh geez I am fubarred. Really - vaga? They are glorified tackle.
Rudy Metallo The Bastards	Posted - 2008.09.19 03:12:00 - [39] Zealot overall, personally Deimos make me jump. Ishtar takes its time working you down, Deimos it happens within 20 seconds. --
InsanlyEvlPerson Gallente Night-Stalkers	Posted - 2008.09.19 03:27:00 - [40] Originally by: Rudy Metallo Zealot overall, personally Deimos make me jump. Ishtar takes its time working you down, Deimos it happens within 20 seconds. deimos is pretty thin in the tank dept... if it doesnt land on top of ya, u cna prolly kill him b4 hes in range.
Rudy Metallo The Bastards	Posted - 2008.09.19 04:24:00 - [41] Doesnt mean it isnt ****ing scary when one does land on top of you. --
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.09.19 04:51:00 - [42] Edited by: Derek Sigres on 19/09/2008 04:51:32 Originally by: MalVortex Edited by: MalVortex on 18/09/2008 21:47:45 Originally by: Derek Sigres You are somewhat mistaken in your assumption. If a Cerberus does NOT use Flare rigs you are entirely correct - 6500m/s (the speed the missile flies) represents essentially your max speed. With the rigs your explosion velocity is fairly substantial, about 5500 m/s with my skills and just shy of 6km/s with maxed skills. Also, the 6.5km/s threshold is not exactly a threshold - all you have to do is force your target to pursue you. Anything you can concievably kill with an AML cerberus is going to certainly be faster than you of course, but if you wait for the correct moment in an orbit pattern or flight plan your own MWD can push you far enough that they will be forced to do a direct approach. And as far as webs go, yes a web on your foe would foil your evil plan, but I carry a web as well meaning foiling plan A rapidly generates a much worse scenario for the would be target. When I am speaking of a damage threshold, it essentially only really exists when a target can outrun the missile completely. The double flare rigged Cerberus can damage targets moving much faster than the missile travels, provided the missile can make contact. This is why I am talking about the approach - it has nothing to do with transversal and everything with bringing the target to the missile since the missile cannot catch the target. yea... no... Heres your max skilled precision missile explosion velocity vs. ship speed. % is % warhead yield transfered to target pre-resistance. Light Missiles: 4500m/s vs: 5000m/s: 89.48393168% 5500m/s: 64.11803884% 6000m/s: 36.78794412% 6500m/s: 16.90133154% 7000m/s: 6.217652402% 7500m/s: 1.831563889% 8000m/s: 0.432023947% Heavy + Cruise Missiles: 1500m/s vs: 2000m/s: 89.48393168% 2500m/s: 64.11803884% 3000m/s: 36.78794412% 3500m/s: 16.90133154% 4000m/s: 6.217652402% 4500m/s: 1.831563889% 5000m/s: 0.432023947% Oh, and the launch velocity of a missile from a cerb is always higher than its explosion velocity. By a lot. Only time you'll ever get into trouble is Precision ASM on a ship with 2 or more flare rigs an no explosion velocity and no velocity rigs. The amount of times you should ever fit a ship like this is zero (and the only ship i can imagine this fit on is a 7x ASM drake. Which would be the most terrible idea ever). I bolded for emphasis the parts where I noted that I use flare rigs specifically BECAUSE if you want to hit the really fast ships that are fairly common right now you NEED them. And incidentally the Precision Light Cerberus is actually superior in DPS to the Drake thanks to the fact the Cerb's damage bonuses apply to the launcher's while the drake's does not. The Drake's small dronebay and a compliment of Warrior II's may push the DPS in the Drake's favor, but they are of limited effectiveness against the super fast ships. The bonus of course is the Drake is cheaper than the Cerberus and certainly tanks a hell of a lot harder. While I run from nano ishtars and sacs because they quite simply CAN outgun me (substantailly) while moving at breakneck speeds, a drake doesn't have that concern. Even if you are outgunned you certainly have the sturder ship, even when fit for PVP. And one other note on the anti-nano drake - it sports a substantially reduced theoritical range and a much lower benchmark for outrunning missiles meaning it's far more difficult to actually get those missiles on a target in a Drake than a Cerberus.
MalVortex Reaper Industries Eternal Rapture	Posted - 2008.09.19 05:00:00 - [43] Reading comprehension... I never said the ASM drake was a bad idea. In fact, I said the exact opposite. And to put this to bed once and for all. Cerb, Level V skills. 2x Flare Catalysts, 5% explosion velocity implant. Bloodclaw precision velocity: 8437.5m/s Bloodclaw explosion Velocity: 6248.813 Anything else you want me to debunk? A rocket cerb or something?
Ralara Caldari Vivicide	Posted - 2008.09.19 05:30:00 - [44] Originally by: Derek Sigres Originally by: Ralara Originally by: CosmicWillow Hi All, I am thinking about training for one, just wonder which HAC people considered most dangerous and why. Please take note that I am asking specifically about HAC and not Recon or HIC as those are on my training list after HAC Thanks in advance for your help! Depends on what range. < 5,000 meters? Deimos :D More than that, a Vaga, I guess. Personally, I'd say the most FEARSOME HAC's are the Sacriledge and the Ishtar. Both can point and tank fairly well and both can deliver staggering damage at speed (currently). Most HAC's are as effective as wet paper bags when nano'd solo - indeed I think a Vagabond is hard pressed to kill much of anything if left to it's own devices. Sure it can kill T1 cruisers and overconfident intys but that's no contest for the most part anyway. The Zealot may have a brutally effective long ranged firepower but it won't be pointing at range and if it's nanoing it isn't exactly going to be either sturdy, cap stable or entirely effective. The Diemos may have the ability to deliver staggering damage at point blank range but it certainly comes with a huge dilemma of closing range (and then hoping it significantly outguns it's target). The Eagle may have fantastic reach but it simply isn't doing a lot of damage. Most of the HAC's are anything but fearsome or effective by themselves. When they come in swarms, that's when I worry, and to be honest it doesn't matter what HAC you choose when you have enough of them - they'll all kill you just the same. Maybe a Zealot as well then; an Ishtar doesn't bother me too much as you can kill the firepower (drones) easily enough and unlike a Dominix, it only has 1 set of spares - with those gone, you have a HAC that can put a point on you but do no damage - or maybe it has railguns fitted - tanked easily enough on another HAC or above. --
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.09.19 05:35:00 - [45] Originally by: MalVortex Reading comprehension... I never said the ASM drake was a bad idea. In fact, I said the exact opposite. And to put this to bed once and for all. Cerb, Level V skills. 2x Flare Catalysts, 5% explosion velocity implant. Bloodclaw precision velocity: 8437.5m/s Bloodclaw explosion Velocity: 6248.813 Anything else you want me to debunk? A rocket cerb or something? Clearly we are having a miscommunication. Yes, the missile travels FASTER than the explosion - I have pointed this out in the post you first quoted. The solution is to force the offending target traveling FASTER than 6.2 km/s to run into the missile - simply run AWAY from them forcing an approach. Presto, your volleys actually land and continue delivering damage. And for the record just how many ships (non interceptor) travel in excess of 6km/s anyway? Certainly not the average T1 frigate or cruiser and only the most pimped HAC's can hope to break that threshold (or lightly pimped Vagabonds for the sake of completeness of discussion). You are aguing that a ship can still outrun the missiles of a Cerb, I agree. Some ships are fast enough to evade that damage no matter what you do (presumably one of the causes of the impending nano nerf is the ability to create a fit that is so fast it's in fact immune to damage to many weapon systems), but such ships are incredibly rare. It's a point to take into account but not a reason to not use a ship. Most ships can't kill a fully passive tanked drake by themselves - does that mean one shouldn't carry guns? And on to the Drake - I agree the Drake CAN do the job of the Cerberus, it's just as natively well suited to the role thanks to: 1) Lack of Damage bonus on the launchers (it does less damage than a Cerberus when counting only missiles) 2) Lack of Velocity bonus (makes the threshold for invulnerabilty lower, requiring more fancy maneuvering to achieve hits - a stock standard T2 vagabond can just about outrun the missile and it's by far the most common HAC I see) 3) Lack of Flight Time bonus (makes it more difficult to hit a target in a wide point orbit) What the drake DOES do better it does because it's a BC: in short it tanks better even when fitting a full PVP Set of MWD, point and web. Where my Cerberus will run from a Sac or an Ishtar because I find it difficult to win a slugging match with a ship that actually delivers damage when nano'd, the Drake will truly shine. These ships are slower than most nano's (no fancy maneuvers required) and have substantially inferior tanks meaning in the slugging match game the BC will win (as one would expect the Cruiser equivalent of a Destroyer do do). The question between the two ships is one of preference but the cerberus wins in this particular debate hands down because the question is about HAC's, not about BC's
Rawr Cristina Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2008.09.19 05:46:00 - [46] Originally by: eXtas and cerb isnt even beter then a caracal vs frigs :) Oh come on, you know that's a lie As for most dangerous HAC, I'd probably say Zealot. - Infectious -
DeadDuck Amarr Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.19 07:41:00 - [47] The best HAC after the speed nerf will be the Sacrilege. Extremely versatile, good tank, good firepower. Some hacs will be faster, some will have more fire power, but in a the middle of a fight in which the situations are always changing I would bet on a sacri any day. ________________ God is my Wingman
Artemis Rose Varion Galactic Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate	Posted - 2008.09.19 08:42:00 - [48] Vagabond for nano HACs. You can generally catch any of the other nano HACs with an MWD, some good piloting and maybe a good overheat cycle, but the Vagabond is quite a bit faster. Other than, a Deimos at close range is pretty scary. *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.19 09:38:00 - [49] Originally by: Derek Sigres But, I have faith that at some point I'll find a setup that can make the Scorpion the jack of all trades solo PVP ship the caldari always wanted but have long been denied. After that I plan on finally working out how to turn lead into gold. Hah! There's nothing wrong with the scorp that an extra 30 points of scan res, and +25 mbit bandwidth and drone space wouldn't fix.
Beltantis Torrence	Posted - 2008.09.19 17:09:00 - [50] Originally by: BiggestT Cerb, due to its long range and v. high volley damge. Best anti-ewar hac out there, as falcons sometimes dont notice an already fired volley of missiles (to their own peril ) Its just so damn flexible. However the zealot may beat it due to pulse being so awesome right now.. I call shenanigans. No one fears a solo cerb other than tech 1 frigates (what stops them from just leaving?).
Guth Gallente E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.09.19 17:24:00 - [51] Dont listen to anyone who says the Deimos as theyre are complete crap and need a boost from ccp. Fitting them is a nightmare. Ishtar and Vagabond are best at the minute due to nano setups, Both Amarr Hac's are good also. Regards ---------------- SIG ------------------ Factoid: Something fictitious that is presented as fact, devised especially to gain publicity and accepted because of constant repetition
Pharaik Amarr CCCP INC	Posted - 2008.09.19 17:56:00 - [52] Nano ishtar and Vagabond are the best hacs about at the mo. Cant catch either one without recon or u get lucky. The dps kicked out by the ishtar is enough to take down anything that isnt a capital and the vaga will slowly nail you to the door. Nano zealots are good as well cos of the tracing on the pulse, but unless your highly skilled in gunnery i wouldnt bother with the zealot.
Megan Maynard Minmatar 17th Minmatar Tactical Wing	Posted - 2008.09.19 23:06:00 - [53] Give me a break, it's not even close. Vaga? Maybe in 2007. Ishtar? PLEASE. Sac? No. Deimos? LOL. The zealot, by far and away is the best. Low slots coming out the ass, fast, tanked, and ganked all at the same time. Pulse lasers are now the best weapon in the game. It isn't even a discussion.
Vanthropy	Posted - 2008.09.19 23:12:00 - [54] Originally by: Rudy Metallo Doesnt mean it isnt ****ing scary when one does land on top of you. this
steveid Viziam	Posted - 2008.09.19 23:38:00 - [55] pre nerf and post nerf the zealot and ishtar due to their ranged damage and ability to hit hard against any ship type of opponent.
soldieroffortune 258 Gallente Trinity Council	Posted - 2008.09.20 02:15:00 - [56] Originally by: The Djego Originally by: Roemy Schneider right now, the nano ishtar. some people tell you to shoot its drones? unless you got smarties, keep in mind that one of their heavy drones has only slightly less HP than the ship itself - and it can carry a couple extra. so you go for the ship itself but it is leadfooting around... =( this insanity can only be topped by a recon ship The last few Nano Ishtars that tryed to attack my Deimos left without a full wing of Heavy Drones. Simply MWD away from the Drones and pick them 1 by 1, but keep them close enught that you can catch the Ishtar if he tryes to get them back. Was a quite funny fight with a some very **ed Ishtar Pilots. Ofc could be a problem if you get webbed by a Nano Ishtar but im preaty shure no other Hac will be that stupid to try to web a Deimos. i would be angry also, lol a full bay full of hammie II's cost me around 4.5million that i cant afford but i love my little vexor though, i have a full wing of t2 lights for enemy frigs, and t2 mediums for anything bigger Originally by:** soldieroffortune 258 "*Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer*"
Alt altski	Posted - 2008.09.20 11:03:00 - [57] Originally by: Xori Ruscuv Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 18/09/2008 16:34:19 Originally by: CosmicWillow Hi All, I am thinking about training for one, just wonder which HAC people considered most dangerous and why. Please take note that I am asking specifically about HAC and not Recon or HIC as those are on my training list after HAC Thanks in advance for your help! Right now: Vagabond Post nano nerf: hard to say. I can't see CCP screwing the Vaga, but IF THEY DO, it'll be the Zealot or Ishtar. ok nvm about the cerb... Right now sacrilege .... Post nano nerf , sac or zealot.
Imaos	Posted - 2008.09.20 17:25:00 - [58] Originally by: soldieroffortune 258 Originally by: The Djego The last few Nano Ishtars that tryed to attack my Deimos left without a full wing of Heavy Drones. Simply MWD away from the Drones and pick them 1 by 1, but keep them close enught that you can catch the Ishtar if he tryes to get them back. Was a quite funny fight with a some very **ed Ishtar Pilots. Ofc could be a problem if you get webbed by a Nano Ishtar but im preaty shure no other Hac will be that stupid to try to web a Deimos. i would be angry also, lol a full bay full of hammie II's cost me around 4.5million that i cant afford but i love my little vexor though, i have a full wing of t2 lights for enemy frigs, and t2 mediums for anything bigger Note that the ishtars usually loose berzerker IIs or ogre IIs. Depending on the skill of the pilot leaving without a full wing is about 9-11 drones downed. Imaos ------------------------------------------ Originally by:** NoNah My friend, this is EVE, as it's a space oriented game, they couldn't have trolls. We have Caldari.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.20 19:20:00 - [59] Originally by: Guth Dont listen to anyone who says the Deimos as theyre are complete crap and need a boost from ccp. Fitting them is a nightmare. wait, lemme guess, you try to fit a tank&gank fit, right? if it's that case, --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.

Pages: 1 [2] :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.