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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.09.20 08:09:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Megan Maynard
I'm opening up this discussion again because I'm an ornery bastard and I'm really liking FW.
The NOTION, that FW is a beginning step for new or inexperienced players to get into pvp is utter non-sense.
It needs to stop.
I have been saying this every since I read someone saying fw was for noob pvp.
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Paul Kane
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2008.09.20 11:18:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Haks'he Lirky
... Why should FW combatants not be able to go into enemy space and blow up enemy NPC miners? ...
You CAN go to enemy space and kill their player (not npc) miners and mission-runners. Trust me, that¦s more fun than killing rats.
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Haks'he Lirky
Burning Bright Inc.
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Posted - 2008.09.20 12:45:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Paul Kane
Originally by: Haks'he Lirky
... Why should FW combatants not be able to go into enemy space and blow up enemy NPC miners? ...
You CAN go to enemy space and kill their player (not npc) miners and mission-runners. Trust me, that¦s more fun than killing rats.
That was actually my point, sorry if I was vague.
The idea is to get people to shoot at NPC's so there are more people around to shoot at, if there are secondary cash making incentives then it's more varied than the current situation (where you roam to search for people who are roaming in search of you).
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Meridius Dex
Amarr
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.09.20 13:31:00 -
[34]
Originally by: ShardowRhino
As for the idea that FW is a stepping stone for some players into different types of pvp is fine. However people shouldn't view it as just that. I've gone from wardecs in empire,to lowsec to 0.0 alliance warfare,back to wardecs and finally found what i want. That is FW and how the fighting is done. Its how i think eve should have been to start. Wardecs,pirating,alliances are all good options ,so is FW as it gives players another choice in how to play eve. I've found what suits me best which is different from some i know,so be it. Enjoy the game how you want
I'm from the same background, since I was first a veteran of a zero sec alliance and left it for faction warfare. Also, I make all my ISK with an empire trading alt, so where my main lives makes no difference for income purposes.
With that in mind, FW is far more fun than 0.0. It's not even close. Zero sec is flying for countless jumps looking to gank targets of equal or lesser strength, with often dubious results. The fleets are - by and large - better disciplined (depending on your alliance - I was in a good one), but not always. But that's the only thing null's got going for it.
What you do get in zero sec is far more (and larger) blobs, attendant lag in all such engagements, bubbles and pos warfare -- the most mind-numbing way to spend your time in any video game ever invented. All this so you can work sovereignty mechanics that are as tiresome as having a second job.
Meanwhile, faction warfare is fun, tactical and boasts a good mix of both veteran and new players. There are good FCs and some not-so-good (most of those are still learning). Blobs are not as common as zero sec and are usually much smaller in scale (usually 30-40, as opposed to hundreds). There are no bubbles, so a greater variety of ships can be employed to more satisfying effect. You also are less in danger of being podded in such environments - reducing the need to constantly clone jump before you can fight.
There are no stupid POSs to attack or defend and capitals are as rare in FW as CCP always intended them to be altogether in EVE: rare enough to be exciting encounters, while not common enough to destabilize the fun everyone else is having in casual roaming gangs and fighting inside plexes.
Empire is always close by, so logistics are easy to manage and there's always something to do when you log in, whether it's a gang, plexing or just solo roaming around in a greater variety of ships than you would enjoy in zero sec - from T1 frigates, cruisers and destroyers, up to T2 HACs and Recons.
I'm having a blast in FW and I can't see the time anywhere in the near future where I'd go back to 0.0.
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Meridius Dex
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Amarr = EVE on Hard setting |
Megan Maynard
Minmatar
17th Minmatar Tactical Wing
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Posted - 2008.09.20 14:38:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Meridius Dex
stuff
The amarr s****sucker hit the nail on the head. A LARGE majority of FW players fall into this category right now.
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Damaa
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Posted - 2008.09.21 09:03:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Haks'he Lirky
Edited by: Haks''he Lirky on 20/09/2008 08:04:32
My problem with FW is the total lack of focus and a total lack of any clear results. Sure, over time we can take over systems, but this is only for bragging rights or something. There is no life in these systems, there is no reason to actually fight over them.
Why not upgrade the minerals in the FW systems? I am not sure if anyone can survive long enough to actually mine the minerals, but at least the temptation would be there.
Why not upgrade belt rats, alot? Why should FW combatants not be able to go into enemy space and blow up enemy NPC miners? (similar to the mineral drops in 0.0), this would create a clear logistical reason to control a pipe or at least control one system for a while.
I agree with the OP, the simple mechanics need to be fixed, but I am absoloutely not agreeing with the line from CCP that FW should be PVP for PVP sakes. Make these FW regions come alive with some meaning and profit (does not need to be on the same level as 0.0 profit or even empire profit), creating life in these systems will create meaning, meaning will create clear objectives.
I think this is the most overlooked problem in FW.
FW does not need to boost profits (or only profits), it needs to boost PURPOSE.
FW as it stands has no purpose, not even a profit.
Do not just give me profits, give me a clear purpose that makes the fight worth it.
What I meant is (and I am sure that is what Haks'he meant): Boost FW profits, but on top of that give the fight a purpose (goal/objective), a reason to control the systems, even if it was future profits.
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Anahid Brutus
TunkbwahCorp
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Posted - 2008.09.21 16:14:00 -
[37]
i agree, they definitely need some work
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Elise Randolph
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2008.09.22 18:16:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Elise Randolph on 22/09/2008 18:17:53
Posting in a thread that should be about me. I'll be honest, I haven't read every post but I've read the first few.
FW is waning because the novelty factor is wearing off, but eventually it'll pick up again and go through various boom-and-bust cycles. The heart of the matter lies in the fact that FW is an isk sink with ZERO rewards (conquering systems does nothing, doing missions does nothing, et cetera). It's just a glorified ongoing empire war. So if you want to boost participation across all skill levels, you have to give some sort of reward.
Allowing alliances to join is amazingly problematic; it potentially escalates FW from what it is now - effectively the shallow-end of the PVP pool - to something much deeper, and in the process puts up barriers to entry that CCP tried to do away with in implementing FW. Don't fool yourself; FW isn't a tool to appease the RPers of EVE, it's a tool to get more people PVPing and a way to populate low-sec. Unfortunately, without any rewards it's really not going to do much of either.
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Murk Loar
Caldari
Polytope
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Posted - 2008.09.23 00:36:00 -
[39]
I remember during testing one of the ways CCP gave us incentive to plex hard was to give the daily VP winners (read:entire winning militia fleet) officer items for a job well done.(Taking down a bunker solo in a BS is not advised unless you have a free couple of hours by the way.)
Other than that sugar coated goal,even we could see way back then that controlling systems had no real purpose.It's not like it cuts off the opposing militia from entering that space,and ideas such as gate guns opening up on enemy ships or stations locking out opposing militias were all thrown around but nothing obviously became of it.
FW needs purpose as everybody has already stated.In the short term its great for killboard warriors,but for the long term its rapidly losing incentive. |
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